EPTYeah case in point, if I want an AD carry build with 40% CDR, what do you suppose I'm going to build? Brutalizer, Youmu's, Black Cleaver? They only have one item.
[Patch 3.14] PreSeason 4 General Discussion - Page 187
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Yeah case in point, if I want an AD carry build with 40% CDR, what do you suppose I'm going to build? Brutalizer, Youmu's, Black Cleaver? They only have one item. | ||
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Magus
Canada450 Posts
On December 10 2013 07:31 Kinie wrote: I think people forget about the CDR boots. It's situationally good on various champs that want low CDR. For example, my current Kayle build is Nashor's > CDR boots > Deathcap > Lich Bane. It's a reasonable buying curve with nice power spikes at the completion of each item; Nashor's means more than 3 auto's with her E, CDR boots combine with Nashor CDR and CDR mastery for 40% CDR for E being up all the time, Deathcap for that nice power spike and Lich Bane to make her hit like a truck. Yeah you have next to no MagPen, but that's what runes are for (I think I'd want AP runes, hybrid pen red, armor yellow, MR blue on the above build). Or you get Greaves and a DFG on Kayle. Greaves actually give you more damage overall for less gold than Sorcs, so they help a lot early game. Then you get the DFG after Deathcap and suddenly you have 35% CDR and E is only down for .4 seconds. Also Lichbane before Deathcap is stronger for dueling. Lichbane also let's you push towers faster. Deathcap will push waves faster, but it's negligible since you already push waves faster than they spawn with just a Nashor's. The only advantage you get from Deathcap first is a better heal from the extra AP. That said, any game where you can't secure your blue buffs CDR boots are actually a really good idea. That 100% E uptime is so important. | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
CDR gets more effective the more and more you have. Apparently CDR in the season 2 defense tree was too toxic so they had to add Spirit Visage instead. | ||
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
On December 10 2013 09:28 xes wrote: AS gets less effective the more and more you have. CDR gets more effective the more and more you have. Apparently CDR in the season 2 defense tree was too toxic so they had to add Spirit Visage instead. * CDR becomes more effective the more you have until you have 40 of them, at which point any further CDR is completely useless They removed CDR from defense tree not because it was toxic, it was just silly to have 3 CDR sources in masteries (not to mention the defense tree one added up to some really weird number) | ||
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cLutZ
United States19570 Posts
On December 10 2013 09:24 Shikyo wrote: CDR in the masteries is fine but the defensive tree should have something. It makes absolutely no sense that Riot seems to be pushing CDR as a tank stat because so many tanking items have tons of CDR, and then they don't give any for the masteries. Yeah case in point, if I want an AD carry build with 40% CDR, what do you suppose I'm going to build? Brutalizer, Youmu's, Black Cleaver? They only have one item. 5% + SV as defensive item + Zephyr/Brut = 35. The problem is the only ADC who building CDR would be very strong on is Ashe. Or maybe the problem is that Zephyr and Ghostblade are just terribly UP items. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On December 10 2013 10:17 cLutZ wrote: 5% + SV as defensive item + Zephyr/Brut = 35. The problem is the only ADC who building CDR would be very strong on is Ashe. Or maybe the problem is that Zephyr and Ghostblade are just terribly UP items. I even forgot that Zephyr existed. Hmm, what if -that- gave 15% CDR? Surely it wouldn't be overpowered. On December 10 2013 10:19 Ryuu314 wrote: Zephyr's not UP, it's just that the stats on it are all pretty luxury and generally redundant. It's a perfectly fine buy in the late game when you're maxing out on slots. I don't think so. In my opinion, it is actually the worst to buy when you're maxing out on slots because it's so shit for a single slot. I've only seen Zephyr once recently, built by some jungle Udyr who built it with Wriggles Lantern(and was braindead). | ||
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InfSunday
United States735 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35062 Posts
On December 10 2013 10:26 Shikyo wrote: I even forgot that Zephyr existed. Hmm, what if -that- gave 15% CDR? Surely it wouldn't be overpowered. I don't think so. In my opinion, it is actually the worst to buy when you're maxing out on slots because it's so shit for a single slot. I've only seen Zephyr once recently, built by some jungle Udyr who built it with Wriggles Lantern(and was braindead). Zephyr falls under the issue of 7th slot syndrome. ADC shy away from it because of lack of crit and AS fighters weren't popular until OPFoce buff, kicking it's slot out. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19570 Posts
On December 10 2013 10:19 Ryuu314 wrote: Zephyr's not UP, it's just that the stats on it are all pretty luxury and generally redundant. It's a perfectly fine buy in the late game when you're maxing out on slots. Sounds pretty UP to me. "Buy this at a rare stage of the game to replace a weak item" And most the time you cant sell boots anyways because Movespeed and Homeguard OP. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
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Duvon
Sweden2360 Posts
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HughMyron
297 Posts
For example, let's say you're Irelia and you've built Ninja Tabi, Trinity Force, Randuin, and Spiritvisage, then Zephyr would be a solid choice for your 4th item. But you're rarely going to be in such a situation because the game should be over by then. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
It also might be good on something like Yi but its stats just are pretty poorly designed. Speaking of which, what's with the "dude I'm a tank, I'm supposed to be 1-10" that I keep hearing sometimes | ||
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cLutZ
United States19570 Posts
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arb
Noobville17918 Posts
On December 10 2013 11:25 Shikyo wrote: Irelia is like the only champion on whom I'd buy Zephyr. I wouldn't even buy it on Fiora and she's not crit-based... Says something. It also might be good on something like Yi but its stats just are pretty poorly designed. Speaking of which, what's with the "dude I'm a tank, I'm supposed to be 1-10" that I keep hearing sometimes ya if he has a bunch of assists and is giving kills to ad/ap or top or something then that statements pretty correct ithink. unless its soloq and youre just trying to carry hella hard | ||
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Tula
Austria1544 Posts
On December 10 2013 11:25 Shikyo wrote: Irelia is like the only champion on whom I'd buy Zephyr. I wouldn't even buy it on Fiora and she's not crit-based... Says something. It also might be good on something like Yi but its stats just are pretty poorly designed. Speaking of which, what's with the "dude I'm a tank, I'm supposed to be 1-10" that I keep hearing sometimes Zephyr is a fairly great item on champions which really don't fit the current meta  My top lane Xin'zhao build was ghostblade -> Sunfire -> SV -> Zephyr and worked beautifully at the start of S3. Other chars that can really use it are Olaf and Yi. Basically any champion that really doesn't want/need crit but profits from attack speed can pick up pretty cost effective stats with zephyr. Still Zephyr, Hurricane and Nashors are perfect examples of pretty failed S3 items. They might fit a niche role somewhere, but they really aren't common at all. Nashors might be a decent item if there were more autoattacking APs, but the way champions are designed 3 at best (and that includes Diana who typically doesn't build it but rather goes for the Lichbane burst combos) can use it. Your last line is something that amuses me a lot at lower rankings. Basically it's the idea that tanks are supposed to soak up damage. That part is fairly easy to manage even if you are a bronze scrub, the second half of a tank role (soak as much as you can, than get out if at all possible) is where they usually fail. Similar silly statements: "I died first, that means I did my job as a tank" "Of course I died, I was keeping their whole team busy 1v4" (the later translates to: "I dived far too deep and got killed as a result, to cover for my error I'll blame you guys for not having enough pressure somewhere else"). Funnily enough I think learning to play a good tank (including calls when to initiate and when not to, diving the right target, deciding if you should dive their carry or try to peel for your carry) is one of the easiest ways to understand this game. It's easy to blame your teammates if no one peels for you as the adc, but if you are the guy who has to decide when to go in (e.g. top lane shyvana/olaf, junglers like jarvan or Vi) you have only yourselve to blame if you start a fight your team cannot win. edit: something I remember from my earliest days of learning this game which for some reason has stuck in my mind. When asked on his stream how you should judge your performance Alex_Ich said the easiest way to judge if you are playing well is how often you died. If you have died 5 times before 20 minutes you are doing something wrong. Whenever you die more than 10 times in a game you are doing something very wrong. Obviously that is far too simplified for every game, but in general the idea that you shouldn't die more than 5 times in a typical game (not a 95 minute slugfest with constant teamfights ending in mutual wipes) has served me well in my progression as a player | ||
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arb
Noobville17918 Posts
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SagaZ
France3460 Posts
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