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On December 05 2013 21:13 liberate71 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 21:12 LimitSEA wrote:On December 05 2013 21:10 liberate71 wrote:On December 05 2013 21:09 LimitSEA wrote:On December 05 2013 21:06 liberate71 wrote:On December 05 2013 21:05 tomwizz wrote: I'm curious why zerg player don't make infestor vs bio anymore?
Too much gas cost I guess with Mutas. Mutas much better vs drops so can't go Infestor only for that I feel like when he stopped muta production to make the roaches he should've been going with infestors. Hold down the bio so he can't split and connect with extra banelings instead of attacking with roaches and maybe he takes a few more fights efficiently, especially if he doesn't lose any of the infestors. Yeah it seems like that wouldve been the way to go, but I'd have to assume he's used that kinda of play before and had some success with it, he probably just didn't expect such ridiculous macro like bombers to tear his army down. Yeah the constant aggression and continuous push after Bomber's just lost a large army probably surprised him into making a few panic roaches, and I guess if you don't expect constant aggression like that you may not be prepared to throw some infestors into your army. Imagine practicing against that? its no wonder Life's Z v T was so fucking good in its prime hahaha. Ahaha yeah. And the reverse, too. Bomber and Life keep upping each other's TvZ/ZvT.
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On December 05 2013 21:13 Dark.Carnival wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 21:11 liberate71 wrote:On December 05 2013 21:10 Dark.Carnival wrote:On December 05 2013 21:06 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 05 2013 21:03 Dark.Carnival wrote: pretty awful performance from soulkey. last game is forgivable because it was bel'shir but losing to pure bio at his skill level is just shameful D: when banelings don't work cause terrans are too good at spliting, Zerg has a very hard time dealing with bio^^ dunno, i kinda hate the design of tvz nowadays, it creates sometimes cool matches, but Zerg has just no good and "save" way of dealing with these big bio armies if the terran doesnt just amove banelings work perfect against pure bio if you're not a-moving your banelings. he also made roaches which was like the worst choice he could have possibly made. at least he tried to flank but he spent so much money getting out useless roaches he basically killed himself Do they have a higher target priority than banelings? I'd have thought they were just to get the banelings close, but the splits were so ridicuous and the re-enforcements so constant that it wasn't gonna work. i can only assume it was for them to soak damage. maybe if he had done hyun style where he opens with roachlingbane and skipped mutas it would have worked, but transitioning into roaches was really bad
Yeah especially when marauders were in such high numbers (not that marines dont fuck them up anyway)
On December 05 2013 21:10 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 21:09 liberate71 wrote:On December 05 2013 21:06 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 05 2013 21:03 Dark.Carnival wrote: pretty awful performance from soulkey. last game is forgivable because it was bel'shir but losing to pure bio at his skill level is just shameful D: when banelings don't work cause terrans are too good at spliting, Zerg has a very hard time dealing with bio^^ dunno, i kinda hate the design of tvz nowadays, it creates sometimes cool matches, but Zerg has just no good and "save" way of dealing with these big bio armies if the terran doesnt just amove It's more than not A-moving though, you said it yourself - you have to split, and split gooderer than 99% of other terrans I like that use of gooderer
I thought it fit well
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On December 05 2013 21:14 Lorch wrote: I love how this insta escalates into a balance discussion. There is a reason t usually adds factory in tvz bio, you literally need a great map for pure bio like derelict and insanely good mechanics. I see people mostly discussing what Soulkey should have done...
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On December 05 2013 21:13 Wintex wrote: Wolf,,, it ain't. But.. Bomber's Law HUEHUEHUE.
+ Show Spoiler +Don't hate me, I'm kidding, I know it's bs.
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The best part of Bomber winning is seeing Wintex happy. Bless his little heart. :D
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Difficult map for Soulkey
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On December 05 2013 21:14 Lorch wrote: I love how this insta escalates into a balance discussion. There is a reason t usually adds factory in tvz bio, you literally need a great map for pure bio like derelict and insanely good mechanics. What balance discussion. I only really see discussion on the match up and players play styles etc.
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On December 05 2013 21:14 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 21:11 Fjodorov wrote:On December 05 2013 21:07 Squat wrote:On December 05 2013 21:05 Fjodorov wrote: Shouldnt SK have been more aggressive harassing bombers bases with his mutas? Muta vs pure bio isnt very good, sure picking off medivacs is nice but he could have been doing more dmg harassing. Bomber is typically very late with his expos, he seems to want to keep a tight cluster of bases that are easy to defend, and then rely on macro to overwhelm the zerg before he needs more bases. Anyway, seeing this kind of puts Scarlett's wins at red bull and IEM over Bomber into perspective. I didnt see bombers main to much but im guessing he had 1 turret at most as usual. He had none at third. Mutas are garbage in actual fight against pure bio so I think breaking the parade and possibly damaging production/economy is what you should use mutas for vs this. Scarlett is way more active with her mutas. Bombers unit control has been exceptional today though, so good Yeah but Bomber put so much pressure on that SK never had a chance too, he basically defends by attacking. The mutas are constantly needed to fight drops and parade pushes, they never have an opportunity to go and harass.
In one of the redbull games Scarlett defended the mass bio push while using mutas to reduce the medivac count and immediately harassing scv's after that. Creating a low eco game which in the end made Bomber too broke to deal with burrowed banelings.
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Alright Bomber, time to throw down 2 armories like the cool kids :p
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On December 05 2013 21:14 Kasaraki wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 21:10 Qwerty85 wrote:On December 05 2013 21:07 marvellosity wrote:On December 05 2013 21:05 Calthrash wrote:So Bomber goes to lose to Scarlett in two tournaments and then pops up in here and destroys Soulkey? Guess that is the consistancy of Bomber for you Indisputable evidence that Scarlett > Soulkey Bomber is very inconsistent player. Not sure if any conclusions can be made when someone beats/loses to Bomber. It all depends on which Bomber shows up. People always ignore the clashes of styles, it's something Artosis loves to talk about though. But basically some players play in a way that counters another player, deals with them better. Some always lose to their nemesis because of stylistic reasons. That's actually one of the major reasons why these comparisons don't work.
MKP vs Mvp was one of those. MKP over aggressive but usually beats lesser players with micro and putting games is weird situations (base trade). Vs Mvp who is really good defensively and has good crisis management.
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Hah yeah actually surprisingly civil LR thread today. WP folks
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On December 05 2013 21:13 AxionSteel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 21:11 Squat wrote:On December 05 2013 21:08 vthree wrote:On December 05 2013 21:05 Calthrash wrote:So Bomber goes to lose to Scarlett in two tournaments and then pops up in here and destroys Soulkey? Guess that is the consistancy of Bomber for you Well, Scarlett's ZvT is definitely up there. She straight up outplayed him. Twice. Once on a map with a gold base. I don't know where this Idea came from that Bomber just derped in those games, he played his regular brand of TvZ. Scarlett was just better than him, period. He certainly did in the games he played mech Move commanding his whole army into a bunch of swarmhosts etc. Scarlett is really good zvt though, probably in my top 5. Sure, and she threw the game when she flew her mutas into Bomber's army. No one has ever played, nor will ever play a perfect game, mistakes happen. It feels like he makes more of them playing against Scarlett, because she pushes him so much he starts to crumble a bit.
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They are forgetting Life. His backstab style and muta harass kept him in the losing game against Taeja for a very long time.
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time for a Soulkey bust!!
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i hope soulkey does a 1/1 roach attack or something, bomber loves to play abusive builds
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opterown
Australia54748 Posts
On December 05 2013 21:17 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 21:13 AxionSteel wrote:On December 05 2013 21:11 Squat wrote:On December 05 2013 21:08 vthree wrote:On December 05 2013 21:05 Calthrash wrote:So Bomber goes to lose to Scarlett in two tournaments and then pops up in here and destroys Soulkey? Guess that is the consistancy of Bomber for you Well, Scarlett's ZvT is definitely up there. She straight up outplayed him. Twice. Once on a map with a gold base. I don't know where this Idea came from that Bomber just derped in those games, he played his regular brand of TvZ. Scarlett was just better than him, period. He certainly did in the games he played mech Move commanding his whole army into a bunch of swarmhosts etc. Scarlett is really good zvt though, probably in my top 5. Sure, and she threw the game when she flew her mutas into Bomber's army. No one has ever played, nor will ever play a perfect game, mistakes happen. It feels like he makes more of them playing against Scarlett, because she pushes him so much he starts to crumble a bit. didn't elfi play a perfect game against stephano, immortal push on antiga? breaking his huge ZvP streak.
or almost perfect? haha
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Unfortunate CC location from Bomber, will trigger a bane bust.
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Bomber's going to be in trouble here. Very clever here by Soulkey.
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21 triple cc has to be about as greedy as it can get. Time to see if roach bane will work
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