EPTRegardless, would it piss everyone off to say I still think vanesco is the best lynch?
He's still the best lynch.
Witchcraft Mini Mafia II - Page 23
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Umasi
United States1399 Posts
Regardless, would it piss everyone off to say I still think vanesco is the best lynch? He's still the best lynch. | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
Night all, good hunting. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On November 05 2013 12:37 Umasi wrote: I disagree with the aggression on WoS, how he's playing is pretty much in keeping with a town WoS. That said, don't be so angry wave, you're kind of overreacting. Regardless, would it piss everyone off to say I still think vanesco is the best lynch? He's still the best lynch. Umasi. WHY. Get in here and engage the thread or so help me I will switch to you and bring people with me. | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
On November 05 2013 12:27 WaveofShadow wrote: My refusal to correct inconsistencies? That's because THERE ARE NONE. Cephiro bring up one example of an inconsistency from your case right now and I will show you how it's not in one instant; I wouldn't be surprised if it's already in the thread. Alright, let's start with this one. On November 04 2013 15:51 WaveofShadow wrote: Anyone is welcome to comment on Vanesco basically taking the out I gave him and running with it, because I still lean towny on him, but ughhhhhhhhh Why would you give him a free out if you lean town on him, and THEN basically invite everyone to jump on it? It makes absolutely no sense from a town perspective. I can still understand giving a free out to someone you think is town to try and help them, but then pointing them out for taking it? I can't see this from a town perspective no matter how I look at it. If I assume you are town doing this -> You're giving a free bone for scum to take up on. If you think Vanesco was town, there is absolutely no reason for you to do that, as if anything it makes him look worse. Also the fact that you're asking someone else to do the job for you. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On November 05 2013 12:38 Cephiro wrote: Alright, let's start with this one. Why would you give him a free out if you lean town on him, and THEN basically invite everyone to jump on it? It makes absolutely no sense from a town perspective. I can still understand giving a free out to someone you think is town to try and help them, but then pointing them out for taking it? I can't see this from a town perspective no matter how I look at it. If I assume you are town doing this -> You're giving a free bone for scum to take up on. If you think Vanesco was town, there is absolutely no reason for you to do that, as if anything it makes him look worse. Also the fact that you're asking someone else to do the job for you. I didn't do it specifically TO give him the out. My case for him being town was an out by nature. It wasn't a bait to see how he'd react but it interested me nonetheless. In the end it seems as though he took ET's out rather than mine, even though they basically amounted to the same thing. After the point at which I decided he was town rather than scum I never wavered from that point. A free bone for scum to pick up on and do what? Try to fight against me? Like Umasi is still doing with his vote on Vanesco? Look at where it's landing him in my books right now. Come on, Ceph. As far as me making him look bad, Vanesco already looked really bad at that point; his play since that point has looked much better---he is actively looking everywhere to find scum, keeping an open mind and engaging in conversation. Anything else? | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On November 05 2013 12:36 WaveofShadow wrote: The issue I have with Sn0 is him basically refusing to contribute today. Would scum flat-out refuse to contribute when pressured? I guess it's possible but ugh. I have mentioned I would be comfortable with any of those three getting lynched and if people absolutely won't switch to Onegu then maybe I will. OO on the note of contribution, what has Umasi done that Sn0 hasn't? What are your thoughts on him atm? Umasi is on the radar, repeat, he is ON THE RADAR. Super outspoken against discussing the coven powers and thinks Vanesco is the scummiest guy in the thread. And that's pretty much it. And that's pretty underwhelming. But it's not necessarily scummy to have an out-there scum read. Would rather like to know another two scum reads from him as well because I could put his filter through a sieve and only the word Vanesco would filter out. So I'll wait 'til we get that. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On November 05 2013 12:42 ObviousOne wrote: Umasi is on the radar, repeat, he is ON THE RADAR. Super outspoken against discussing the coven powers and thinks Vanesco is the scummiest guy in the thread. And that's pretty much it. And that's pretty underwhelming. But it's not necessarily scummy to have an out-there scum read. Would rather like to know another two scum reads from him as well because I could put his filter through a sieve and only the word Vanesco would filter out. So I'll wait 'til we get that. /agreed. Who thinks you're scum again this game? I froget. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On November 05 2013 12:43 WaveofShadow wrote: /agreed. Who thinks you're scum again this game? I froget. Sn0 and gumshoe, neither really has much on me and neither has really responded to my requests. Sn0 went to sleep presumably and gumshoe is phone posting with promises for participation later. Slow. Fuckin. Day. | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On November 05 2013 12:43 WaveofShadow wrote: /agreed. Who thinks you're scum again this game? I froget. Me, I also don't think umasi is scum, just stupid. | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On November 05 2013 12:44 ObviousOne wrote: Sn0 and gumshoe, neither really has much on me and neither has really responded to my requests. Sn0 went to sleep presumably and gumshoe is phone posting with promises for participation later. Slow. Fuckin. Day. Had a teaser back there, care to pick it apart while I fade away? | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
On November 05 2013 12:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: Here's why i don't like your case Cephiro (yeah, i decided to read it after all). First you point out general stuff like "Scum is under constant pressure, scum is also more likely to be inconsistent.". This is not true at all, scum are far more concerned about their image and keeping their story straight than townies are. You call out WoS for trying to look like town because scum try hard to look like town. Townies don't? Then you bring up examples but you do not tell why WoS' actions are scum-motivated rather than town motivated. Then you say this: "Why would one as town ever want to intentionally cause suspicion on himself along his comrades?". You just called you WoS for doing something you are arguing against here. That's the first 33% of your case. Next is the Van thing i addressed already. You bring up many times "this could be scumplay or townplay". That's not convincing and i stop reading an argument that says so because you yourself debunk the argument. You do not tell why WoS "defending" Van must come from scum and cannot come from a townie. That's another 33%. Last part is saying WoS does not have definite scumreads. Nobody does because it's 24h into the game. Just because he does not make a 1000 word case 24h into D1 and is not certain of who is scum does not make him scum, or if it does in your opinion, feel free to tell why because you sure are not telling that in your case. That's the last 33% of the case. 1% is spaces. I can see your reasoning for the second point. I did give reasons why I think the defense is scum-motivated however. It does not mean that is necessarily the case, but I did provide my thoughts as for why I believe that to be the case. Your first point I don't completely agree with. Townies aren't pressured to look town in the same way, they know themselves to be town. Of course they may be worried to be misinterpreted, but they can be confident that their reads are coming from a confirmed town perspective, which scum cannot. I do provide many examples why WoS's actions are more likely to be scum-motivated rather than town motivated. I also do not see how I'm arguing against my own point? I pointed out that WoS is intentionally looking himself look bad in the early post. I then tell why I don't see that a townie should be doing that under any circumstances. Thus logically -> Scum. Repeat: Why would you ever want to look scummy intentionally, as town? He did exactly that, which is why I believe it was done by scum. Third part: It is not only about having definitive scumreads. I can understand people not being extremely certain in their reads at this point in the game. What I am more concerned is that he constantly tells how he's providing content, and ASKING OTHERS TO DO STUFF, when he's barely giving any pressure to anyone himself. I thank you for your feedback though, your second point is most valid. I still consider my case extremely well-considered, and those who haven't should read it. | ||
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Umasi
United States1399 Posts
On November 05 2013 12:42 ObviousOne wrote: Umasi is on the radar, repeat, he is ON THE RADAR. Super outspoken against discussing the coven powers and thinks Vanesco is the scummiest guy in the thread. And that's pretty much it. And that's pretty underwhelming. But it's not necessarily scummy to have an out-there scum read. Would rather like to know another two scum reads from him as well because I could put his filter through a sieve and only the word Vanesco would filter out. So I'll wait 'til we get that. am I misunderstanding what you just said? One of the things I dislike about Vanesco is his attempt to stop discussion about coven powers. am I misinterpreting what you just wrote or did you misinterpret what I said? second scum read=echelontee third scum read=Sn0 Still watching rayn. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On November 05 2013 12:47 Umasi wrote: am I misunderstanding what you just said? One of the things I dislike about Vanesco is his attempt to stop discussion about coven powers. am I misinterpreting what you just wrote or did you misinterpret what I said? second scum read=echelontee third scum read=Sn0 Still watching rayn. Yeah I think I misunderstood your post a bit but really this response is what I was looking for. Just some justifications for each would be helpful. Also since sn0 is there what would it take to get a vote out of you for him? | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
Who stands to benefit from the potential shitfest Ceph has created? Let's assume (with good reason) that he is town for now. Who has been able to sit back while they assume the pressure will be on me? Off the top of my head, ET/hzflank/Sylencia/Umasi. Umasi - returns now that the pressure does. Gumshoe I am not sold on Umasi being town OR stupid. I talk with him extensively and have seen his play. He's not dumb. hzflank - Real shifty. I don't mind the case on Sn0 but I want to have a closer look at it after this to see if it's worthy of him or something easy he just picked out. I believe he is capable of both. ET - Where are you dude? You call me out for being stupid/insane or whatever nad haven't done anything since. Do you agree/disagree with Ceph? Scumreads? Sylencia - Is fucking Sylencia and lurkers gonna lurk. It's a shame we don't have vig powers. Don't know what to do about him atm. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43188 Posts
Being undecisive at this point of the game or asking other people's opinions is not scummy. That's pretty much everything i have to say. Of course it would be cool if everyone played perfectly and pressured people and shut down cases/arguments that are obviously bad but that's unfortunately what people are capable of doing. ##Vote: gumshoe just because i do not like anything he has said this game. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On November 05 2013 12:46 Cephiro wrote: I can see your reasoning for the second point. I did give reasons why I think the defense is scum-motivated however. It does not mean that is necessarily the case, but I did provide my thoughts as for why I believe that to be the case. Your first point I don't completely agree with. Townies aren't pressured to look town in the same way, they know themselves to be town. Of course they may be worried to be misinterpreted, but they can be confident that their reads are coming from a confirmed town perspective, which scum cannot. I do provide many examples why WoS's actions are more likely to be scum-motivated rather than town motivated. I also do not see how I'm arguing against my own point? I pointed out that WoS is intentionally looking himself look bad in the early post. I then tell why I don't see that a townie should be doing that under any circumstances. Thus logically -> Scum. Repeat: Why would you ever want to look scummy intentionally, as town? He did exactly that, which is why I believe it was done by scum. Third part: It is not only about having definitive scumreads. I can understand people not being extremely certain in their reads at this point in the game. What I am more concerned is that he constantly tells how he's providing content, and ASKING OTHERS TO DO STUFF, when he's barely giving any pressure to anyone himself. I thank you for your feedback though, your second point is most valid. I still consider my case extremely well-considered, and those who haven't should read it. Here's a question for you Rayn. You saw me almost get lynched in ## and people's reasoning were because I had no scumreads and wasn't doing much of anything after the scumpush on Prome in the early game. Is my play anything like my play in that game? Would you say me 'doing nothing' in that game is me 'doing nothing' in this game? Like---my mind is fucking boggled. EVen in THAT game I argued that I wasn't doing nothing, and in this game my filter is fucking full of ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING and yet I get the SAME SHIT?! Frankly I'm insulted that you would fucking DARE to say I haven't done anything, and it's shit like this that makes me want to disengage and ignore you again. You are blatantly misrepresenting everything I have attempted to do in and for this town and until you come off your high horse with the false pretenses that you are considering all of the points people are bringing up against your case (which you actually may be, but in the end I know that you aren't budging from that spot) I have zero reason to engage you. Nothing I can or will show you will be good enough because you have set in your mind that I am a certain way. This bias is spam-Rayn bad. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On November 05 2013 12:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: In the last game i made a similar case on WoS that Cephiro is doing now. I even think my case was stronger. He was town. Being undecisive at this point of the game or asking other people's opinions is not scummy. That's pretty much everything i have to say. Of course it would be cool if everyone played perfectly and pressured people and shut down cases/arguments that are obviously bad but that's unfortunately what people are capable of doing. ##Vote: gumshoe just because i do not like anything he has said this game. LOL FUCKING NINJAD | ||
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Sylencia
Australia1057 Posts
On November 05 2013 08:02 Cephiro wrote: Aight. That was an interesting read. As for witchpowershiznit, I suggest we claim our votes only, 72 hours after. I've come up with an interesting idea as well. We will claim the votes in order, one at a time. I have an algorhithm based on certain actions in the game that make me very confident in the idea this will work. Also, vote me for blue. I'd like to hear more from players: raynpelikoneet, hzflank, thrawn, Sn0_Man + Myself. ##Vote: WaveOfShadow Have you actually read the thread? I'm sure you would've already dismissed your idea already because we already discussed revealing witchcraft votes and it was either too risky or there were problems in regards to the overlap of blues because we're not likely to change our votes that much between the days, so it's a simple blue shot no matter when we really reveal... I don't really buy the fact that there's an algorithm which would work in our favour 'depending on certain actions in the games' because there are so many things which can happen. Following on from that, why would it ever be a smart move to try gather WC votes so obviously when it just sets you up to be a vig target? The vote on WoS in your very first post sets you up here for a long long tunnel which I'm still currently getting through (though I've taken a skip over the wall of text for now) - if anything I feel like you decided to target WoS after seeing recent posts and then did the long filter dive process to back it up at a later point. This is obviously baseless conjecture but I can see that happening from a scum player. On November 05 2013 09:05 Cephiro wrote: Yes, I didn't intend to start off with a case, neither reason my vote on WoS more specificly. If there is someone you want my general or specific opinion on, just ask. I have several reads to a direction or another, as well as many nullreads. I just don't consider most of them to be worth sharing right now. Nevertheless I'm content with joining in like this, and I intend to make my thought process clear regarding my reads to the most extent, excluding possible thingamagics I have a tendency of pulling off. As for a more concise reply: It is because I wanted to not present all my thoughts in the open immediately. I can "fix" it by replying to any queries you might have. I will also be sharing more content when I find it necessary. How is actively choosing not to give reasoning behind your votes ever townie here? Especially when you make a 'serious' vote on the first post which means that literally no one knows that your train of thought has been before you voted? Choosing to present thoughts only when asked is basically allowing yourself to reveal as little about what you think as possible, which really only has scum motivation behind it since it reduces the likelihood of inconsistencies popping up in the future, no? Skimming over your case, half the points honestly seem like a stretch and rayn's covered pretty much my thoughts on that, I'll have to get back to your reply soon but honestly it's taken me an hour to hit this point because everyone seems to want to write essays these days :{ Conclusion: I don't really buy Ceph's case, and his entrance to me looks like a forced tunnel into WoS. That said, I still need to look at a few other filters before getting deeper reads but Ceph's on my radar at the moment. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43188 Posts
On November 05 2013 12:47 Umasi wrote: am I misunderstanding what you just said? One of the things I dislike about Vanesco is his attempt to stop discussion about coven powers. am I misinterpreting what you just wrote or did you misinterpret what I said? second scum read=echelontee third scum read=Sn0 Still watching rayn. There is no reason to discuss the coven powers ans i dislike every comment that talks about them. It does absolutely no good to town atm. | ||
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