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On November 05 2013 11:18 Cephiro wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 11:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am not reading Cephiro's post because even if WoS is scum i can assure you 90% of that post does not make WoS scum. Even if you think that you should read it even for the 10%. I admit there may be points (especially later on the case), where I am simply so sure in my read that they are a bit biased. If you honestly think WoS is not scum and my case is horrible, then point it out. That's why I posted it. I want people to look at it and see my reasoning why I think WoS is scum. If you agree, great, let's lynch WoS and hope that I'm right. If you don't agree, either tell me the flaws of my reasoning or provide me with a better target. Preferably not the latter one, as at least half of the players in this game currently can be made a "wishywashycase" off. Almost no-one seems to commit...
You wrote the word bus in a game with unflipped players holy fuck I stopped reading there.
---> Scum is under constant pressure, scum is also more likely to be inconsistent. Especially later in the game when you may able to force them into a situation where they are forced to choose the lesser of the two evils. Reactions in those moments tell a ton.
I won Smurf Mini as mafia (MAD PROPS TO MY HOME BOY BLAZINGHAND AKA SIR ECCLESTON THE AWESOME) by building a house of cards and remaining as consistent as possible throughout the entire game. I essentially knew how I was getting to end game by the end of D3. So your generalities doesn't hold much weight with me. Tell me specific generalities about WoS scum meta and how they relate to his play here, not just general stuff and how it applies to WoS.
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Ooh sorry that post earlier was meant as a response to Rayne XD. Cephiro what I got out of your Great Wall of china post is that I think your town, that level of investment and consideration from you and ironically WOS to a lesser degree makes it hard for me to consider either of you as scum. Your arguments are solid, but there's a bit of confirmation bias there, ie it seems like you saw a few shitty things there and are now viewing all his posts in red. Ask me to make a case on anyone here, I can and will because narrative is a powerful tool that binds both fact and fiction and it's quite easy to conjure up. A good narrative can also be self deceiving ) : I've learnt that just this Saturday in fact : p. Wos actions, which he himself has admitted have been somewhat shifty, are enough to make him 15 percent mafia in my eyes, higher than normal, but not yet worth the risk of his deaths blowback and the absence of his voice, which may yet be crucial in securing votes at the very least..
I suggest rather taking a gander at the rats that scurried out right after my case, sno oo and onegu, what do you feel regarding them? Oh and sorry all if my posting quality will be lower tonight, phones are hard.
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On November 05 2013 11:26 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 11:18 Cephiro wrote:On November 05 2013 11:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am not reading Cephiro's post because even if WoS is scum i can assure you 90% of that post does not make WoS scum. Even if you think that you should read it even for the 10%. I admit there may be points (especially later on the case), where I am simply so sure in my read that they are a bit biased. If you honestly think WoS is not scum and my case is horrible, then point it out. That's why I posted it. I want people to look at it and see my reasoning why I think WoS is scum. If you agree, great, let's lynch WoS and hope that I'm right. If you don't agree, either tell me the flaws of my reasoning or provide me with a better target. Preferably not the latter one, as at least half of the players in this game currently can be made a "wishywashycase" off. Almost no-one seems to commit... You wrote the word bus in a game with unflipped players holy fuck I stopped reading there. Show nested quote +---> Scum is under constant pressure, scum is also more likely to be inconsistent. Especially later in the game when you may able to force them into a situation where they are forced to choose the lesser of the two evils. Reactions in those moments tell a ton. I won Smurf Mini as mafia (MAD PROPS TO MY HOME BOY BLAZINGHAND AKA SIR ECCLESTON THE AWESOME) by building a house of cards and remaining as consistent as possible throughout the entire game. I essentially knew how I was getting to end game by the end of D3. So your generalities doesn't hold much weight with me. Tell me specific generalities about WoS scum meta and how they relate to his play here, not just general stuff and how it applies to WoS.
I wanna lynch you so bad it hurts T-T
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On November 05 2013 11:26 gumshoe wrote:
Ooh sorry that post earlier was meant as a response to Rayne XD. Cephiro what I got out of your Great Wall of china post is that I think your town, that level of investment and consideration from you and ironically WOS to a lesser degree makes it hard for me to consider either of you as scum. Your arguments are solid, but there's a bit of confirmation bias there, ie it seems like you saw a few shitty things there and are now viewing all his posts in red. Ask me to make a case on anyone here, I can and will because narrative is a powerful tool that binds both fact and fiction and it's quite easy to conjure up. A good narrative can also be self deceiving ) : I've learnt that just this Saturday in fact : p. Wos actions, which he himself has admitted have been somewhat shifty, are enough to make him 15 percent mafia in my eyes, higher than normal, but not yet worth the risk of his deaths blowback and the absence of his voice, which may yet be crucial in securing votes at the very least..
I suggest rather taking a gander at the rats that scurried out right after my case, sno oo and onegu, what do you feel regarding them? Oh and sorry all if my posting quality will be lower tonight, phones are hard.
Rats? Reals?
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On November 05 2013 11:28 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 11:26 ObviousOne wrote:On November 05 2013 11:18 Cephiro wrote:On November 05 2013 11:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am not reading Cephiro's post because even if WoS is scum i can assure you 90% of that post does not make WoS scum. Even if you think that you should read it even for the 10%. I admit there may be points (especially later on the case), where I am simply so sure in my read that they are a bit biased. If you honestly think WoS is not scum and my case is horrible, then point it out. That's why I posted it. I want people to look at it and see my reasoning why I think WoS is scum. If you agree, great, let's lynch WoS and hope that I'm right. If you don't agree, either tell me the flaws of my reasoning or provide me with a better target. Preferably not the latter one, as at least half of the players in this game currently can be made a "wishywashycase" off. Almost no-one seems to commit... You wrote the word bus in a game with unflipped players holy fuck I stopped reading there. ---> Scum is under constant pressure, scum is also more likely to be inconsistent. Especially later in the game when you may able to force them into a situation where they are forced to choose the lesser of the two evils. Reactions in those moments tell a ton. I won Smurf Mini as mafia (MAD PROPS TO MY HOME BOY BLAZINGHAND AKA SIR ECCLESTON THE AWESOME) by building a house of cards and remaining as consistent as possible throughout the entire game. I essentially knew how I was getting to end game by the end of D3. So your generalities doesn't hold much weight with me. Tell me specific generalities about WoS scum meta and how they relate to his play here, not just general stuff and how it applies to WoS. I wanna lynch you so bad it hurts T-T
Wow
So Doge
Such lol
Much reciprocation
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On November 05 2013 11:18 Cephiro wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 11:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am not reading Cephiro's post because even if WoS is scum i can assure you 90% of that post does not make WoS scum. Even if you think that you should read it even for the 10%. I admit there may be points (especially later on the case), where I am simply so sure in my read that they are a bit biased. If you honestly think WoS is not scum and my case is horrible, then point it out. That's why I posted it. I want people to look at it and see my reasoning why I think WoS is scum. If you agree, great, let's lynch WoS and hope that I'm right.
Ceph the real reason I don't want to read the case is because it's simply too long, and at a glance it looks like one of those filter-dive cases that could be made against anyone. Everything looks scummy if you present it the right way so a big list on inconsistencies or whatever doesn't do much to persuade me because honestly I could probably whip up a similarly sized case against anyone if I felt like it. I did sorta skim the case and one thing that caught my eye was...
"Scum is under constant pressure, scum is also more likely to be inconsistent"
I don't know this to be true. In fact I can think of at least two players known for not always having their facts straight as town and both of them are hosting this game. Hapa misreading something or getting his facts 100% incorrect is a staple of his town play. BH has been known to disregard reality and try to get his confirmed town mason partner lynched. Town people forget and misremember things all the time, in fact I suspect that some paranoid mafia players keep track of their statements better than a carefree town player who feels no guilt at all.
That is just one example of why your case doesn't appeal to me.. I don't really agree that certain things are scumreads. I think WoS is pretty obviously town based on how easy it is for him to post. Ask him a question and he has no problem giving you a well explained, seemingly emotionally genuine answer within a reasonable amount of time.
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On November 05 2013 11:24 WaveofShadow wrote:
Cephiro....I am not reading or responding to any of that. It is not worth my time. You're welcome to push the lynch as you please.
Short ver for all the (censored) who can't read one long post.
You should vote for WoS today, because he constantly tells how he will deliver and how he has provided a lot of content, yet hasn't really done so. He posts a lot, but he doesn't really pressure anyone. His excuse for not providing proper analysis is because he's afraid he might be wrong and it may get ripped apart.
Read why this and many other reasons make him scum in my case. Do it. It won't take you that long, and it'll make you a better mafia player just by reading it.
@WoS: If you truly are going to completely ignore all of that (I am extremely disappointed you are not even trying to defend yourself against the main points which are easily found.), then I promise I'll do everything in my power to get you killed.
Even if you are scum, be kind enough to provide this content and tell me for example 2 persons that you think are scum, and give me a proper analysis and thought process as for why you ended up thinking they are scum and what makes them scum.
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On November 05 2013 11:29 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 11:28 gumshoe wrote:On November 05 2013 11:26 ObviousOne wrote:On November 05 2013 11:18 Cephiro wrote:On November 05 2013 11:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am not reading Cephiro's post because even if WoS is scum i can assure you 90% of that post does not make WoS scum. Even if you think that you should read it even for the 10%. I admit there may be points (especially later on the case), where I am simply so sure in my read that they are a bit biased. If you honestly think WoS is not scum and my case is horrible, then point it out. That's why I posted it. I want people to look at it and see my reasoning why I think WoS is scum. If you agree, great, let's lynch WoS and hope that I'm right. If you don't agree, either tell me the flaws of my reasoning or provide me with a better target. Preferably not the latter one, as at least half of the players in this game currently can be made a "wishywashycase" off. Almost no-one seems to commit... You wrote the word bus in a game with unflipped players holy fuck I stopped reading there. ---> Scum is under constant pressure, scum is also more likely to be inconsistent. Especially later in the game when you may able to force them into a situation where they are forced to choose the lesser of the two evils. Reactions in those moments tell a ton. I won Smurf Mini as mafia (MAD PROPS TO MY HOME BOY BLAZINGHAND AKA SIR ECCLESTON THE AWESOME) by building a house of cards and remaining as consistent as possible throughout the entire game. I essentially knew how I was getting to end game by the end of D3. So your generalities doesn't hold much weight with me. Tell me specific generalities about WoS scum meta and how they relate to his play here, not just general stuff and how it applies to WoS. I wanna lynch you so bad it hurts T-T Wow So Doge Such lol Much reciprocation
Your posting makes me want to growl at my dog, I love my dog ) : why are you doing this to me.
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Cephiro how does what you just said applies more to WoS than to any other player in this game?
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On November 05 2013 11:32 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 11:29 ObviousOne wrote:On November 05 2013 11:28 gumshoe wrote:On November 05 2013 11:26 ObviousOne wrote:On November 05 2013 11:18 Cephiro wrote:On November 05 2013 11:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am not reading Cephiro's post because even if WoS is scum i can assure you 90% of that post does not make WoS scum. Even if you think that you should read it even for the 10%. I admit there may be points (especially later on the case), where I am simply so sure in my read that they are a bit biased. If you honestly think WoS is not scum and my case is horrible, then point it out. That's why I posted it. I want people to look at it and see my reasoning why I think WoS is scum. If you agree, great, let's lynch WoS and hope that I'm right. If you don't agree, either tell me the flaws of my reasoning or provide me with a better target. Preferably not the latter one, as at least half of the players in this game currently can be made a "wishywashycase" off. Almost no-one seems to commit... You wrote the word bus in a game with unflipped players holy fuck I stopped reading there. ---> Scum is under constant pressure, scum is also more likely to be inconsistent. Especially later in the game when you may able to force them into a situation where they are forced to choose the lesser of the two evils. Reactions in those moments tell a ton. I won Smurf Mini as mafia (MAD PROPS TO MY HOME BOY BLAZINGHAND AKA SIR ECCLESTON THE AWESOME) by building a house of cards and remaining as consistent as possible throughout the entire game. I essentially knew how I was getting to end game by the end of D3. So your generalities doesn't hold much weight with me. Tell me specific generalities about WoS scum meta and how they relate to his play here, not just general stuff and how it applies to WoS. I wanna lynch you so bad it hurts T-T Wow So Doge Such lol Much reciprocation Your posting makes me want to growl at my dog, I love my dog ) : why are you doing this to me.
We should discuss my scum read and yours with one another in such a way that I don't want to start posting gifs. You can start by not insinuating I am scum without ample reasoning and extrapolating your scum suspects with some general bullet points as well as your thoughts on Sn0 who I intend to lynch today.
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As for OO and thrawn saying not all of what I say may be true in every case, I agree. That is why I used the words "in general" or "more likely" or "in most cases". Unique or rare cases happen at everything, eventually. That also applies to mafia. Just because you have witnessed a case that was otherwise doesn't mean it still doesn't generally happen. As I admitted, expections happen. But they are exceptions for a reason. They only happen rarely.
I can understand it's a long-ass case to read through, but please, even if you won't completely engulf yourself into it, show me the effort of skimming through it to understand the main points I am going at, at least.
@gumshoe: Replying to you in a moment.
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On November 05 2013 11:32 Cephiro wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 11:24 WaveofShadow wrote:
Cephiro....I am not reading or responding to any of that. It is not worth my time. You're welcome to push the lynch as you please. Short ver for all the (censored) who can't read one long post. You should vote for WoS today, because he constantly tells how he will deliver and how he has provided a lot of content, yet hasn't really done so. He posts a lot, but he doesn't really pressure anyone. His excuse for not providing proper analysis is because he's afraid he might be wrong and it may get ripped apart. Read why this and many other reasons make him scum in my case. Do it. It won't take you that long, and it'll make you a better mafia player just by reading it. @WoS: If you truly are going to completely ignore all of that (I am extremely disappointed you are not even trying to defend yourself against the main points which are easily found.), then I promise I'll do everything in my power to get you killed. Even if you are scum, be kind enough to provide this content and tell me for example 2 persons that you think are scum, and give me a proper analysis and thought process as for why you ended up thinking they are scum and what makes them scum.
Wow.
I just fucking dodged a game of LoL by accident because I was all ready to type something to you and lost LP.
Fuck this, Ceph. I have no desire to get into it with you at all. All it will amount to is a huge shitfest because I can already tell you will not have your mind changed at all based on the sheer zealousness of your case and your posting. You can cry and scream and threaten all you like. Go ahead, you can even spam the thread like Rayn. I will not be getting lynched today so you'd better start diverting your attention span elsewhere.
I will be pushing my own lynches when and where I feel like, and am comfortable where my vote is right now.
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So I will address my opinion's of Cephiro RIGHT before his massive post and then address the huge post. He comes into the game giving a vote and no real reasonings. He also hides many of his reads by saying he has secondary reasons for voting WoS and that he doesn't feel that his SEVERAL reads are worth sharing. I understand not wanting to share all of them but effectively the only read that seems obvious is that you are suspicious of WoS (before the massive post). It seems like the connection that me and WoS is all one-sided from WoS's filter POV. It seems like the only player you have focused on ever since entering the game has been WoS, as if you are tunnel visioning. And the connection between us is also only done from WoS's point of view. Is it also possible that he is scum and I am town and he is trying to find reasons for others to jump on me for an easy day 1 lynch? Or is it maybe possible we are both town and he had suspicions on me and is questioning my play?
I also think that a day 1 lynch on WoS is not a good idea since most people have either expressed they think he is town, or have not given a read on him (I'm assuming for now those mean null). I thought before that WoS was a little scummy but since then he become slightly town for me. His frustration with Cephiro's arguments seem to be something that a fed up town would do. I think that most people in the thread will agree with me that there are targets that seem more suspicious than WoS. Maybe Cephiro is trying to deflect off of somebody that was being targetted? He seems very much to want to keep the discussion on mainly WoS and only WoS.
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hey WoS I asked you about Onegu earlier, I read his shit and got ok vibes from it. Why is he mafia?
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On November 05 2013 11:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Cephiro how does what you just said applies more to WoS than to any other player in this game?
Because there are several points where I show you the inconsistencies of WoS's own claims and his own play, rather than analyzing his play on a general level. It wouldn't be a proper case if I only looked at it from a general perspective. Even though at the start I do tell you a lot about how what is likely to be the case, it is because I want the reader to understand the point where I am coming from -> Why I see it happening from a scum perspective in general.
I then provide a lot of content where I analyze single posts, or combinations of posts where many interesting finds are made. WoS has had a lot of posts and actions, which is why there are many things that can be applied to him uniquely.
--> Example: Let us consider "Defending Van" a scummy thing.
First we obviously reduce this into the pool of players that have defended Van.
This is the general level, where we work with a general assumption.
After this, we start looking at the players reasoning for defending Van, and the way they've interacted with him at an individual level.
This is the important level, where we find out the inconsistencies or things that tip the scale towards a scum play.
I hope you understand the point I am trying to get across here.
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On November 05 2013 11:40 Vanesco wrote:So I will address my opinion's of Cephiro RIGHT before his massive post and then address the huge post. He comes into the game giving a vote and no real reasonings. He also hides many of his reads by saying he has secondary reasons for voting WoS and that he doesn't feel that his SEVERAL reads are worth sharing. I understand not wanting to share all of them but effectively the only read that seems obvious is that you are suspicious of WoS (before the massive post). It seems like the connection that me and WoS is all one-sided from WoS's filter POV. It seems like the only player you have focused on ever since entering the game has been WoS, as if you are tunnel visioning. And the connection between us is also only done from WoS's point of view. Is it also possible that he is scum and I am town and he is trying to find reasons for others to jump on me for an easy day 1 lynch? Or is it maybe possible we are both town and he had suspicions on me and is questioning my play? I also think that a day 1 lynch on WoS is not a good idea since most people have either expressed they think he is town, or have not given a read on him (I'm assuming for now those mean null). I thought before that WoS was a little scummy but since then he become slightly town for me. His frustration with Cephiro's arguments seem to be something that a fed up town would do. I think that most people in the thread will agree with me that there are targets that seem more suspicious than WoS. Maybe Cephiro is trying to deflect off of somebody that was being targetted? He seems very much to want to keep the discussion on mainly WoS and only WoS.
This is very interesting to me actually. Simple case scenario (which is what I tend to go by) says that no scum would ever put that crazy amount of effort into a post. Despite playing with him a couple times, I don't feel I know Cephiro well enough as to whether he would put that kind of effort into deflection/mislynching as scum, so I am forced to consider him town for the time being based on solely the sheer length of that post, which I imagine others will be doing as well.
The problem there is....did Cephiro know what kind of an effect his massive wall would have? Are other people inclined to give him townreads without reading?
In any case Ceph can certainly wait another day because he will eventually be forced to move off of me or do something different at SOME point, and we will be able to read him better when he does. Again for now, I see Onegu/Sn0/Umasi.
Umasi specifically, where the shit are you? I expected WAY more from you, and the longer your vote stays on Vanesco the scummier you look.
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[QUOTE]On November 05 2013 11:41 thrawn2112 wrote:
Starting up a LoL game atm, let me get back to you.
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On November 05 2013 11:35 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 11:32 gumshoe wrote:On November 05 2013 11:29 ObviousOne wrote:On November 05 2013 11:28 gumshoe wrote:On November 05 2013 11:26 ObviousOne wrote:On November 05 2013 11:18 Cephiro wrote:On November 05 2013 11:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am not reading Cephiro's post because even if WoS is scum i can assure you 90% of that post does not make WoS scum. Even if you think that you should read it even for the 10%. I admit there may be points (especially later on the case), where I am simply so sure in my read that they are a bit biased. If you honestly think WoS is not scum and my case is horrible, then point it out. That's why I posted it. I want people to look at it and see my reasoning why I think WoS is scum. If you agree, great, let's lynch WoS and hope that I'm right. If you don't agree, either tell me the flaws of my reasoning or provide me with a better target. Preferably not the latter one, as at least half of the players in this game currently can be made a "wishywashycase" off. Almost no-one seems to commit... You wrote the word bus in a game with unflipped players holy fuck I stopped reading there. ---> Scum is under constant pressure, scum is also more likely to be inconsistent. Especially later in the game when you may able to force them into a situation where they are forced to choose the lesser of the two evils. Reactions in those moments tell a ton. I won Smurf Mini as mafia (MAD PROPS TO MY HOME BOY BLAZINGHAND AKA SIR ECCLESTON THE AWESOME) by building a house of cards and remaining as consistent as possible throughout the entire game. I essentially knew how I was getting to end game by the end of D3. So your generalities doesn't hold much weight with me. Tell me specific generalities about WoS scum meta and how they relate to his play here, not just general stuff and how it applies to WoS. I wanna lynch you so bad it hurts T-T Wow So Doge Such lol Much reciprocation Your posting makes me want to growl at my dog, I love my dog ) : why are you doing this to me. We should discuss my scum read and yours with one another in such a way that I don't want to start posting gifs. You can start by not insinuating I am scum without ample reasoning and extrapolating your scum suspects with some general bullet points as well as your thoughts on Sn0 who I intend to lynch today.
Alright it's a duel ( : can't really type right now, expect a detailed case in 11 hours, some bullet points though, your speedy bemused response to my wos post, the early desire to remain exceedingly neutral that I pointed to a wall of text ago, the lack of suspicion from everyone despite the fact that your posting has been mediocre, and lastly your dangerously goofy / : in regards to sno he's pretty much a straight up lurker, I rather lunch onegu because if he's scum it basically clears wos and his posting so far has been highly toxic and pretty much useless. Also I don't mind gifs if I'm allowed videos.
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The points against Sn0_Man
-- Avoids committing to anything except what seems to be a WoS scum read, even that isn't particularly committed.
On November 05 2013 03:39 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 03:36 WaveofShadow wrote:
Jeez I can barely contain myself with all of this original, discussion-promoting and thought provoking content! Yo I'm supposed to be a brainwashed religious acolyte. Original and thought provoking not really my thing hue -- What is a brainwashed religious acolyte? We're witches. The religious ones are the mafia. Scum claim?
-- Accusations that I am scum followed by avoiding discussing it in a rational manner.
On November 05 2013 05:38 Sn0_Man wrote:
Iunno i'll let the rest of the thread judge ur actions for themselves. Think I would lynch you though if I had to choose right now lol. Might just be blinded by omgus we'll see.
-- Guessing he went to bed given it's almost 5AM there right now. Anyone feel like taking up his gauntlet for him? I'd rather he do it himself if he's serious about his scum read on me so I guess I'll have to hear back tomorrow at some point.
TL;DR - has done fuck-all for a positive town environment, has done fuck-all for actual scum reads, refused to interview me in any way whatsoever when given the opportunity and thus has a baseless scum read
I already voted for Sn0, so should you.
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Cephiro perhaps I need to be a little more clear.
NOT ONLY do I not accept that scum are more likely to be inconsistent, I wouldn't be surprised if the complete opposite is true. Have you never missed a math question, have you never forgotten anything? Why would you expect someone who rolls town in an online forum game of mafia to be perfect? Townies aren't the ones who are constantly wondering if their story adds up, mafia are. You can point out as many inconsistencies in WoS's play as you like and I will never listen to you unless you can show me how the inconsistencies are specifically scum-motivated. You need to show a clear mafia agenda behind the fuck-ups, otherwise you've just gone and pointed out a bunch of things that can probably be found in every single filter in every mafia game.
The other reason of why I don't like your case is because of the strong town vibes I feel while reading WoS's posts. I sense nothing fake/reserved/malicious/secretive about them.
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EPT
