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On November 05 2013 13:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
It's not the point Umasi. You are supposed to tell us why the interactions are scummy.
they're not scummy, they're just not townie.
nothing has really made my read on vanesco matured, he's just scummy from the first post and no one has supplanted him for #1.
Not everyone's going to post ridiculous cases hzflank, and I'm not going to go restate why someone could be scum if it was just me reading a point that I agreed with :|
I agree with WoS point about Sn0 and how people are wishy-washying towards him as the lynch.
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On November 05 2013 13:09 Sylencia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 12:37 Umasi wrote:
I disagree with the aggression on WoS, how he's playing is pretty much in keeping with a town WoS. That said, don't be so angry wave, you're kind of overreacting.
Regardless, would it piss everyone off to say I still think vanesco is the best lynch?
He's still the best lynch. Has he done anything since last night to further strengthen your scum read on him? As I said before, I don't really agree with what he's said that much but I can see the train of thought behind it. The contributions which you've provided is just a weak case on Vanesco and continuing to push it. That said, ET's filter looks pretty horrendous as it can be summed up as so: Vanesco looks null to scummy because it didn't match Newbie Mafia L (weak) thrawn posted a list of players who had posted but wasn't advocating lurker lynch (weak) Nothing else has been said really... Tbh at the moment ET's filter is really sticking out like a sore thumb to me the more I think about it, since the rest of his posts look like really weak attempts at looking townie :| ##vote EchelonTeeContinuing on to more reading...
First point I agree is weak. Shit's gonna change from game to game as either alignment and Vanesco is also new to TL Mafia and jumped from newbie to normal game in 1 game. I imagine it's somewhat of a culture shock but I don't know what site he came from.
Second point looks to be a clarification of intent at Thrawn. Actually the last post is pretty weird. ET isn't new to mafia. Does he realize that talking at lurkers accomplishes nothing? Rofl.
Prevailing opinion is that ET's scumminess should start to become evident when he begins playing. So he can either begin playing or get lynched.
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On November 05 2013 13:14 WaveofShadow wrote:
Alright let's play a game.
It's called, 'What are people's reads on Syl?'
When I get 3-4 answers I will explain my own and why.
Bonus points to hzflank if he is one of them. Umasi too. Also Rayn.
haha
that syl vote for ET is a doozy aint it
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There's a to be continued on that so I'm all angsty with anticipation.
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On November 05 2013 13:14 WaveofShadow wrote:
Alright let's play a game.
It's called, 'What are people's reads on Syl?'
When I get 3-4 answers I will explain my own and why.
Bonus points to hzflank if he is one of them. Umasi too. Also Rayn.
I think sylencia is town, because of Vanescos initial treatment of him, and
On November 05 2013 12:56 Sylencia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 08:02 Cephiro wrote:
Aight. That was an interesting read.
As for witchpowershiznit, I suggest we claim our votes only, 72 hours after. I've come up with an interesting idea as well. We will claim the votes in order, one at a time. I have an algorhithm based on certain actions in the game that make me very confident in the idea this will work.
Also, vote me for blue.
I'd like to hear more from players: raynpelikoneet, hzflank, thrawn, Sn0_Man + Myself.
##Vote: WaveOfShadow Have you actually read the thread? I'm sure you would've already dismissed your idea already because we already discussed revealing witchcraft votes and it was either too risky or there were problems in regards to the overlap of blues because we're not likely to change our votes that much between the days, so it's a simple blue shot no matter when we really reveal... I don't really buy the fact that there's an algorithm which would work in our favour 'depending on certain actions in the games' because there are so many things which can happen. Following on from that, why would it ever be a smart move to try gather WC votes so obviously when it just sets you up to be a vig target? The vote on WoS in your very first post sets you up here for a long long tunnel which I'm still currently getting through (though I've taken a skip over the wall of text for now) - if anything I feel like you decided to target WoS after seeing recent posts and then did the long filter dive process to back it up at a later point. This is obviously baseless conjecture but I can see that happening from a scum player. Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 09:05 Cephiro wrote:On November 05 2013 08:47 thrawn2112 wrote:On November 05 2013 08:43 Cephiro wrote:
I was simply curious of your opinion about ET. Even though I cannot be sure it's from a town point of view, it still helps to hear perspectives of others as well, to ensure one is not too tunneled with their own opinion, whether it's about thinking someone is town or scum. Even though a certain confidence in one's reads is a must. Ok. So what are your thoughts on this game? You've just now made your first post, but it's somewhat devoid of content which is surprising since you already know who you want to vote for. You've discussed some things with me without really talking about your own views on the game. So far, despite you making a serious vote and having a serious conversation with me about another player, I still have no clue how you're thinking about the game. Why is this and can you fix it? Yes, I didn't intend to start off with a case, neither reason my vote on WoS more specificly. If there is someone you want my general or specific opinion on, just ask. I have several reads to a direction or another, as well as many nullreads. I just don't consider most of them to be worth sharing right now. Nevertheless I'm content with joining in like this, and I intend to make my thought process clear regarding my reads to the most extent, excluding possible thingamagics I have a tendency of pulling off. As for a more concise reply: It is because I wanted to not present all my thoughts in the open immediately. I can "fix" it by replying to any queries you might have. I will also be sharing more content when I find it necessary. How is actively choosing not to give reasoning behind your votes ever townie here? Especially when you make a 'serious' vote on the first post which means that literally no one knows that your train of thought has been before you voted? Choosing to present thoughts only when asked is basically allowing yourself to reveal as little about what you think as possible, which really only has scum motivation behind it since it reduces the likelihood of inconsistencies popping up in the future, no? Skimming over your case, half the points honestly seem like a stretch and rayn's covered pretty much my thoughts on that, I'll have to get back to your reply soon but honestly it's taken me an hour to hit this point because everyone seems to want to write essays these days :{ Conclusion: I don't really buy Ceph's case, and his entrance to me looks like a forced tunnel into WoS. That said, I still need to look at a few other filters before getting deeper reads but Ceph's on my radar at the moment.
I like how he's thinking here, although I disagree with the conclusion, I think the aggression was not forced.
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On November 05 2013 13:17 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 13:14 WaveofShadow wrote:
Alright let's play a game.
It's called, 'What are people's reads on Syl?'
When I get 3-4 answers I will explain my own and why.
Bonus points to hzflank if he is one of them. Umasi too. Also Rayn. haha that syl vote for ET is a doozy aint it
That's not how you play, thrawn.
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On November 05 2013 13:13 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 13:09 gumshoe wrote:On November 05 2013 13:02 ObviousOne wrote:
gumshoe's points against me
your speedy bemused response to my wos post
not sure which post you're talking about here, i have a lot of posts. I don't see anything responding directly to you so you'll have to link. Speedy/Bemused are likely to come from town or mafia? Town OO has nobody's back to cover / names to remember, everything is organic. I am personally more likely to make off the cuff remarks as town and less likely as scum, you can check my past games which are in my profile if you wish to verify.
the early desire to remain exceedingly neutral that I pointed to a wall of text ago
Exceedingly neutral, I'm guessing you mean the post in the early hours of the game where I said something about letting people warm up to playing the game before going all-out with accusations? I don't see how that's scummy unless you're going to bite me for a wait-and-see attitude a few hours into the game.
the lack of suspicion from everyone despite the fact that your posting has been mediocre
I must be doing SOMETHING right if I'm not under heavy suspicion. The first tenet of being town is to establish innocence. The second tenet of being town is to not get lynched. The third tenet of being town is that once the first two are met, you might find scum. ♥Palmar♥
Why should my style be more suspicious than hiding in the shadows? I am genuinely interested in playing and if you do the meta you can see I'm not bullshitting about being askeered to post as mafia. I mentioned it in the scum QT for Aperture Episode 2, even.
and lastly your dangerously goofy / : in regards to sno he's pretty much a straight up lurker, I rather lunch onegu because if he's scum it basically clears wos and his posting so far has been highly toxic and pretty much useless
If he's just a straight up lurker, it's Day 1 and we have no Vig so on top of my points against Sn0 you are demonstrating that it may be necessary to lynch him to remove all doubt. Yeah, this makes too much sense, I apologize for wasting both our time. No point drumming up a larger waste of time, I see little reason to keep pursuing you as a viable lynch. I still rather lych onegu because if sno is scum his play is just meh, but I can see Onegus style working from a scum perspective. Basicaly I'm going under the basis that scum is competent, Onegus style has a chance to make everyone sorta glaze over him due to his pain, it's also a good excuse for his abscence. There would be no excuse for scum snos style. Be fair, afaik Onegu has NEVER used his condition as an excuse as to his play. He's a straight up guy. Ugh gumshoe why would you apologise like that? As town you're not wasting anyone's time if you're trying to get better reads on someone. Glahhhh quick do something positive please so I can shake the horrible vibe you just gave me.
You can't tell but right now I'm using my caring face, it shows how much I care.
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oh, and I also like how brief he is regarding his vote just now.
brief is good. It's not unexplained wtf brief, it's just concise.
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Sigh course shit gets good at 1 am. I'm out.
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Alright Umasi you get an A for effort. And I'm not sure if the second part was a slight in Ceph's direction but I liked it nonetheless.
What about Vanesco's treatment of him makes him town? Is this an association read? Because that's a no-no....
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On November 05 2013 13:14 WaveofShadow wrote:
Alright let's play a game.
It's called, 'What are people's reads on Syl?'
When I get 3-4 answers I will explain my own and why.
Bonus points to hzflank if he is one of them. Umasi too. Also Rayn.
I think his posting before the last couple of posts is fine. I don't like his vote on ET - what it is based on, and how it happened.
ET's posting Sylencia calls him out for was fine at that point he posted the case on thrawn. There is nothing wrong with it and while thrawn has imo made better posts now it seems like Syl is trying to say "look at this guy voting for a person many people think is town" and misrepresenting the vote based on circumstances that were present when ET actually made the vote.
Also the vote happened after Sylencia called Cephiro "something to watch out for", then he goes reading filters and suddenly there is a vote on ET as a result of filter diving (in about 15 minutes, i doubt he read many filters..) and i don't like it at all.
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On November 05 2013 13:24 WaveofShadow wrote:
Alright Umasi you get an A for effort. And I'm not sure if the second part was a slight in Ceph's direction but I liked it nonetheless.
What about Vanesco's treatment of him makes him town? Is this an association read? Because that's a no-no....
it's an association read :|
Just from the opening post, again.
Here, I'll defer to everyone I guess.
##unvote: vanesco
thoughts on him still haven't changed, but it's pretty clear he won't be lynched today, and I might just be dead wrong.
Still think sylencias town though.
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On November 05 2013 13:28 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 13:24 WaveofShadow wrote:
Alright Umasi you get an A for effort. And I'm not sure if the second part was a slight in Ceph's direction but I liked it nonetheless.
What about Vanesco's treatment of him makes him town? Is this an association read? Because that's a no-no.... it's an association read :| Just from the opening post, again. Here, I'll defer to everyone I guess. ##unvote: vanescothoughts on him still haven't changed, but it's pretty clear he won't be lynched today, and I might just be dead wrong. Still think sylencias town though.
ebwop: rather, it's partly an association read. at least, the part concerning him&vanesco in the opening post is.
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On November 05 2013 13:28 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 13:24 WaveofShadow wrote:
Alright Umasi you get an A for effort. And I'm not sure if the second part was a slight in Ceph's direction but I liked it nonetheless.
What about Vanesco's treatment of him makes him town? Is this an association read? Because that's a no-no.... it's an association read :| Just from the opening post, again. Here, I'll defer to everyone I guess. ##unvote: vanescothoughts on him still haven't changed, but it's pretty clear he won't be lynched today, and I might just be dead wrong. Still think sylencias town though.
So what about the fact that Vanesco calls Syl town later on in his filter?
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On November 05 2013 13:30 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 13:28 Umasi wrote:On November 05 2013 13:24 WaveofShadow wrote:
Alright Umasi you get an A for effort. And I'm not sure if the second part was a slight in Ceph's direction but I liked it nonetheless.
What about Vanesco's treatment of him makes him town? Is this an association read? Because that's a no-no.... it's an association read :| Just from the opening post, again. Here, I'll defer to everyone I guess. ##unvote: vanescothoughts on him still haven't changed, but it's pretty clear he won't be lynched today, and I might just be dead wrong. Still think sylencias town though. So what about the fact that Vanesco calls Syl town later on in his filter?
pretty ignorable after I call him out for being unclearly accusatory in his initial post regarding him. idc too much for how someone plays once they come under scrutiny (although it's not totally disregardable, just parts like this.)
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On November 04 2013 19:28 Sylencia wrote:
I've seen quite a few times where it's just thrown out there as a casual observation and people see this kind of activity as being townie because they are scum hunting. (this ended up being a random rant that serves no real purpose)
^ Amazing points like the bolded. Please others, look into things like this.
On November 04 2013 19:28 Sylencia wrote:
Also just to add on here, scum have bigger fish to fry than to plan how to foil our plans. Time constraints and what not means they'd rather go for mislynches than going all out on figuring a loophole in strategies suggested.
Then posts like this make me go ugh. Why do the two close out each other? Forcing mislynches while figuring out loopholes in strategies isn't that hard to do in my opinion. Feel free to disagree.
If Sylencia truly think they are constrained by time and forced to concentrate on mislynches rather than anti-strategizing town, shouldn't we by that logic TRY to make up nice strategies as town, as it forces scum to account for more things, and "being restricted on time", have a hard time of dealing with both mislynches and strategy loopholes?
Yet according to his own opinions, it seems that he is against the idea of strategizing further. (This is the vibe I got from your posting, correct me if I am wrong.)
On November 05 2013 13:09 Sylencia wrote:
Has he done anything since last night to further strengthen your scum read on him? As I said before, I don't really agree with what he's said that much but I can see the train of thought behind it. The contributions which you've provided is just a weak case on Vanesco and continuing to push it.
That said, ET's filter looks pretty horrendous as it can be summed up as so:
Vanesco looks null to scummy because it didn't match Newbie Mafia L (weak)
thrawn posted a list of players who had posted but wasn't advocating lurker lynch (weak)
Nothing else has been said really...
Tbh at the moment ET's filter is really sticking out like a sore thumb to me the more I think about it, since the rest of his posts look like really weak attempts at looking townie :|
##vote EchelonTee
Continuing on to more reading...
1) Seems like a legit opinion, and he is actually trying to carry the conversation into something more useful, rather than going all "Nope that's useless"
2) I don't like how he says short actions that are appareantly weak, but doesn't tell why they are weak.
(Not too hard to figure out if you think about, I assume the Van one is related to meta, and thrawn for pointing out something and not carrying on with it -> unnecessary filter). I just prefer townies to explain their reasons rather than keep the reader guessing.
He has pro-town and pro-scum points quite evenly, but at the moment slightly based on my gut read and the way he presents himself, I am leaning slightly town on Syl. (In response to WoS's queries.)
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EBWOP: Not to mentioned that I liked some of the points in his case, I actually very much share his mindset in the way he presents some of his opinions even if I do not agree with everything. The case on me seemed a bit hasty, but still given clear thought. (Feel like guy is scum -> Go into reading filter -> Feel the thought process flowing and make a case)
So yeah. I like Syl for now.
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EBWOP2: Also I've done enough for now, gotta get a break. I will try to be online before deadline, but it is very likely that I won't show up until ~2 hours before. (Practice)
If you have any urgent questions for me, I'll reply them before I leave as long as you post them asap.
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On November 05 2013 13:13 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 13:09 gumshoe wrote:On November 05 2013 13:02 ObviousOne wrote:
gumshoe's points against me
your speedy bemused response to my wos post
not sure which post you're talking about here, i have a lot of posts. I don't see anything responding directly to you so you'll have to link. Speedy/Bemused are likely to come from town or mafia? Town OO has nobody's back to cover / names to remember, everything is organic. I am personally more likely to make off the cuff remarks as town and less likely as scum, you can check my past games which are in my profile if you wish to verify.
the early desire to remain exceedingly neutral that I pointed to a wall of text ago
Exceedingly neutral, I'm guessing you mean the post in the early hours of the game where I said something about letting people warm up to playing the game before going all-out with accusations? I don't see how that's scummy unless you're going to bite me for a wait-and-see attitude a few hours into the game.
the lack of suspicion from everyone despite the fact that your posting has been mediocre
I must be doing SOMETHING right if I'm not under heavy suspicion. The first tenet of being town is to establish innocence. The second tenet of being town is to not get lynched. The third tenet of being town is that once the first two are met, you might find scum. ♥Palmar♥
Why should my style be more suspicious than hiding in the shadows? I am genuinely interested in playing and if you do the meta you can see I'm not bullshitting about being askeered to post as mafia. I mentioned it in the scum QT for Aperture Episode 2, even.
and lastly your dangerously goofy / : in regards to sno he's pretty much a straight up lurker, I rather lunch onegu because if he's scum it basically clears wos and his posting so far has been highly toxic and pretty much useless
If he's just a straight up lurker, it's Day 1 and we have no Vig so on top of my points against Sn0 you are demonstrating that it may be necessary to lynch him to remove all doubt. Yeah, this makes too much sense, I apologize for wasting both our time. No point drumming up a larger waste of time, I see little reason to keep pursuing you as a viable lynch. I still rather lych onegu because if sno is scum his play is just meh, but I can see Onegus style working from a scum perspective. Basicaly I'm going under the basis that scum is competent, Onegus style has a chance to make everyone sorta glaze over him due to his pain, it's also a good excuse for his abscence. There would be no excuse for scum snos style. Be fair, afaik Onegu has NEVER used his condition as an excuse as to his play. He's a straight up guy. Ugh gumshoe why would you apologise like that? As town you're not wasting anyone's time if you're trying to get better reads on someone. Glahhhh quick do something positive please so I can shake the horrible vibe you just gave me.
This is true, I never use my condition for an excuse and never will as its not fair and a abuse of the game. If you check hogwarts when I lurked on purpose waiting for mods to confirm something I posted to thread I was busy. This being said I have a doctors appointment in a hour and havent read everything yet just skimmed over. My town play is almost completely based on feel, I dont get deep into logic and things, if it feels wrong I point it out. So far hzflanks case on umasi, and WoS defense of Im active set my warning bells off. I will give you guys a hint for future games if I am up for lynch day one Im most likely not scum.
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On November 05 2013 13:14 WaveofShadow wrote:
Alright let's play a game.
It's called, 'What are people's reads on Syl?'
When I get 3-4 answers I will explain my own and why.
Bonus points to hzflank if he is one of them. Umasi too. Also Rayn.
The important line in Syl's post to Ceph is:
On November 05 2013 12:56 Sylencia wrote:
and his entrance to me looks like a forced tunnel into WoS.
Syl is looking for motivation behind the posts of the person he is reading. Ofcourse, if Syl thinks that this is Ceph's motivation then Syl must think that Ceph is scum, although he never says it directly.
Syl mimic's what others have said to Umasi. We cannot know whether Syl wrote that before he read other people's though. Limited town points, at best.
ET's filter does look horrendous, as Syl says. But there are no questions for ET in there and not much for ET to respond to.
So my conclusion: I don't like that in Syl's mind Ceph has scum motivation, yet instead of pressing Ceph on it while Ceph is here, Syl immediately moves on.
Probably scum, but these long nightly posts should make Syl so easy to read anyway.
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EPT
