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On June 23 2013 09:37 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2013 07:47 Acrofales wrote:
Anybody feel like claiming they roleblocked BC? That whole thing just played out extremely weirdly... but I also think it pretty much confirms BC as a dayvig. I don't see any reason at all to lie about the ability and the way it played out as either alignment.
If he is scum, then a townie with a town read on sk8er was quick on the trigger. In this case, it almost HAS to be a post-hoc roleblock, because I don't see a townie bothering to roleblock when all BC was doing was talking about deliberating about shooting.
If he is town, then there's the added possibility that sk8er is scum and has a scumbuddy who can daytime (post-hoc?) roleblock. In this case it could have been a quick roleblock before he actually shot.
Did anybody design a role that could have done a post-hoc roleblock? If not, I think we should lynch sk8er. The only way this would make sense is if: Sk8 is scum A scum created role X that can RB at day Another scum received that role That scum used it on Sk8 to save him It assumes that Sk8 is scum, the receiver of said role is scum, and the creator of said role is scum. That's too much coincidence. If the creator of said role is town, he'll just claim "I made this role and it exists!" and we'll know it exists, and it'll force the RBer to claim (if he doesn't RBer is scum) If the receiver of said role is town, he'll claim the RB (it's not like it "outs" him or anything, just say "I Rbed him") if Sk8 is town....well yeah lynching him is bad.
Huh? You're not making any sense. The creator of the role doesn't have to be scum at all. All we'll know is that the role exists, not who has it (although we'll know the role name).
We already know that either the role exists, or BC is lying. And we have some circumstantial evidence from Sent that seems to indicate that there were multiple actions happening, so it seems likely SOMETHING was going on.
So, seeing as the roleblocker hasn't claimed yet, I see no reason why his role being outed would feel the need to claim. However, if the roleblock doesn't work post-hoc, I think it's pretty clear evidence that the roleblocker was scum (because why would a townie preemptively roleblock BC?)
That means that other than the roleblocker, sk8er would also be scum.
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That's the point, if the creator is town he'll claim "the role exists" so we know BC isn't lying.
He'll also put into light if it's "post-hoc" or not, so we clear our doubts.
It is indeed possible he just doesn't want to claim he made the role for some reason (if the receiver of the role is scum and shooting him maybe), so meh I'd just forget about that
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Welp, now I want to kill Zepphird for that post of his.
Goddamit, I'll just finish reading and make sense of it later.
Regarding stuff that makes Zepphirds post scummy:
(reference: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=415738¤tpage=25#487 )
It's entirely possible (maybe likely) that BC is town.
I get the feeling that if that's so, then some if not most of scum will just come out and flat out say "BC is town" in their posts.
Why? Goes with the flow (general consensus is both confusion about BC's alignment/actions but thinking he's stupid town as well), fake contributions, etc.
Zepphird made that kind of post, and I think kita and others made that kind of post as well
That kind of post bothers me.
I'm not too interested in lynching geript based on that. It'd be way easier for scum geript to do the same thing and sweep any pressure off him (as he's having now)
On June 23 2013 09:23 s0Lstice wrote:
gonzaw,
my Xata and SnB reads have your panties in a bunch? nothing has changed, suspicions are definitely still there. The only thing of note with my scumreads that has happened between then and now is Xata's response, and I'm still considering it. I said I will update, and I will, but not before I'm ready.
You just made a "case" against 2 dudes and then conveniently ignored it until I asked you about them (you were supposed to...you know...either vote them, ask people for opinions, etc)
Anyways, I finished reading so I'll just post my thoughts about you now, and reread and shit later:
Here's the thing solstice.
You started "fine" I'd say. You started joking, jumped to the lovetap thing. Normal early-game-derp. Not super townie, but well you weren't scummy or anything.
You made sense with some comments you made, and I had similar thoughts about you Acro had (that you were making comments that seemingly reflected that of his own, etc)
But then came this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=415738¤tpage=18#349
On June 23 2013 03:43 s0Lstice wrote:Xatalos- Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 19:31 Xatalos wrote:On June 22 2013 18:09 Kurumi wrote:On June 22 2013 17:40 Xatalos wrote:On June 22 2013 14:56 Kurumi wrote:
For a moment I thought I was still drunk after yesterday but this thread actually makes no sense.
No trolling for me I guess.
We're running the classic lynch, so the most votes person dies? LOL. This post *would* be scummy if it showed any actual effort to be safe from lynching. Now, it seems more like a clueless town post. On the other hand, might be 100% clueless Mafia... Take your stance, boy. I've been around here for quite some time. Also, putting my vote on Dandel for creating a terrible, spammy atmosphere and not trying to change that. Hm yeah, looking at your history, I doubt that you would start like that as Mafia. Too effortless and careless IMO. But really, voting for Dandel Ion because of spam? Granted it's not impossible that he's Mafia and spamming to "ruin the atmosphere".. I think it's safe to say that's not a typical way to play scum, especially this actively. And do you even think he's Mafia or just voting because he annoys you? To what history are you referring? Kurumi has never started out as 'effortless and careless' as mafia? I'm actually fairly suspicious of you. Since your entrance into the thread, you've posted some very wordy entries that don't really say much of anything, and contain a few 'wtf' moments, like: Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 21:13 Xatalos wrote:On June 22 2013 12:05 Acrofales wrote:On June 22 2013 11:29 kitaman27 wrote:On June 22 2013 11:18 Acrofales wrote:On June 22 2013 11:06 kitaman27 wrote:On June 22 2013 11:04 Acrofales wrote:
I'm home! Haven't read anything yet, but after umpteen scumgames and a fairly longish break, I finally rolled town!
Also, in case this plan hasn't been proposed yet, I think everybody should say what character they made the role for. That way, if someone claims, someone else can back that shit up, or act as a lie detector. Or the scum can pick off the players that created their roles and they are free to use it as they wish or modify it with a fake claim. That's silly. So what? That limits them in who they can kill. Restricting scum is a good thing. You scum yourself? lol it doesn't limit who the scum can kill. Scum can kill whoever they want, but with your plan, they're not shooting blind. I don't even understand how your plan makes sense. Why can't we server as lie detectors after the claim, without all sharing who we made the role for? They're still shooting blind. They don't know what role they're shooting nor what the role actually is other than the name (and they still don't know who that is). But I do get your point that if claims happen we can verify. Just run the risk of this only happening after people are dead and the mafia covering for each other (if someone claims and nobody pipes up that they made the role, a mafia member can "come into the thread late" and claim making the role) Hmm. This plan has far more negatives than positives IMO. Mafia are basically in the dark only about one thing: blue powers. If they know who created which role, it becomes easier to snipe players if the need appears to fakeclaim (just snipe the player who created a specific role). On the other hand, it becomes impossible for them to act until a certain player has been eliminated. This might be useful in the early game, but come late game, every has-to-be-eliminated player should already be eliminated. This just makes it easier for them to plan their shots. In addition, isn't it more advantegeous to keep Mafia completely in the dark? "Fear of the unknown is the greatest fear." That should apply to Mafia as well. Btw, is that Lovetap thing just a joke or an actual power? Who could possibly know the answer to the bolded other than skater guy? Why are you even asking this? Also your input on the claim discussion was wholly unnecessary, as the side you were arguing for was already well represented. S&B- This is ridiculous Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 20:34 strongandbig wrote:
Sk8rboi having his vote on bc is pretty weird ATM. If he's really read up on tlmafia like he says then he must have some idea what he's doing.
I think he's trying to behave like "I not scared noob I vote big shot vet hurr hurr" and get people to have town reads on him. I don't like that. Fos on sk8rboi. Cool story, but the town side of that story seems just as likely. I agree with Acro that this is a weak FoS. Man, so many lurky folks. Kurumi is not reading the thread: Show nested quote +On June 23 2013 01:02 Kurumi wrote:On June 22 2013 21:23 Acrofales wrote:
In general, I am pretty suspicious of those who have come into the thread and lamented the pitiful state it is in (Kurumi), yet have shown absolutely NO inclination to improve it in any way, shape or form.
Yadda yadda What could I do couple of hours into the game? Voted the most malicious player, remarked on bad atmosphere and moved on. I am not going to post stuff that makes no sense just to look like I do stuff, I do stuff because I do stuff, not because I want to look like I do stuff. Why did you claim who you made role for? You know that we are likely to have Assassin-type role, right? On June 22 2013 20:34 strongandbig wrote:
Sk8rboi having his vote on bc is pretty weird ATM. If he's really read up on tlmafia like he says then he must have some idea what he's doing.
I think he's trying to behave like "I not scared noob I vote big shot vet hurr hurr" and get people to have town reads on him. I don't like that. Fos on sk8rboi. Easiest explanation is: he is playing around or has a role revolving around voting people. Keep that somewhere when we have more evidence pointing at sk8r (if any). For some reason geript taunts me with his posts so I am not going to quote him ever, sorry guys. This after Acro explained tirelessly why he likes the claim idea. I could kill Kurumi and feel ok about it. Skater guy- You really need to clear up your thoughts on BC more. Why is BC scum? Like, I think I know what you are thinking...but these whole 'I voted to gauge reactions' and 'normal people would see my vote as just trolling' things muddy the waters a lot. BC- Looking better with his recent posts. Back to null for me. That's me being caught up. Gonna go back and dig more to refresh my scum reads.
This striked me as a "antagonist scum" kind of post.
It's not the aggressiveness itself, but also the contrast.
Like, it's odd to me you'd go from this:
On June 22 2013 08:17 s0Lstice wrote:
Alright then. I like that you are in here posting comfortably. Doesn't mean a ton since you aren't a true newbie, but its a start.
On June 22 2013 11:25 s0Lstice wrote:
I changed my mind
##Lovetap xxSK8rGUy277xx
Are you related to the skating gentleman in the avril lavigne song?
On June 22 2013 12:19 s0Lstice wrote:
slightly town. like I said earlier he seems really comfy in thread for his first game on TL. the lovetap thing is drawing a lot of attention to him, and he doesn't seem to give a fuck.
it's not much, but its a lil something
...to stuff like "cool I can kill Kurumi and be cool with it" or stuff like that.
There's also the fact that your sk8/BC comments seem like filler
Also your Xatalos thing makes very very little sense:
I'm actually fairly suspicious of you. Since your entrance into the thread, you've posted some very wordy entries that don't really say much of anything, and contain a few 'wtf' moments, like: Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 21:13 Xatalos wrote:On June 22 2013 12:05 Acrofales wrote:On June 22 2013 11:29 kitaman27 wrote:On June 22 2013 11:18 Acrofales wrote:On June 22 2013 11:06 kitaman27 wrote:On June 22 2013 11:04 Acrofales wrote:
I'm home! Haven't read anything yet, but after umpteen scumgames and a fairly longish break, I finally rolled town!
Also, in case this plan hasn't been proposed yet, I think everybody should say what character they made the role for. That way, if someone claims, someone else can back that shit up, or act as a lie detector. Or the scum can pick off the players that created their roles and they are free to use it as they wish or modify it with a fake claim. That's silly. So what? That limits them in who they can kill. Restricting scum is a good thing. You scum yourself? lol it doesn't limit who the scum can kill. Scum can kill whoever they want, but with your plan, they're not shooting blind. I don't even understand how your plan makes sense. Why can't we server as lie detectors after the claim, without all sharing who we made the role for? They're still shooting blind. They don't know what role they're shooting nor what the role actually is other than the name (and they still don't know who that is). But I do get your point that if claims happen we can verify. Just run the risk of this only happening after people are dead and the mafia covering for each other (if someone claims and nobody pipes up that they made the role, a mafia member can "come into the thread late" and claim making the role) Hmm. This plan has far more negatives than positives IMO. Mafia are basically in the dark only about one thing: blue powers. If they know who created which role, it becomes easier to snipe players if the need appears to fakeclaim (just snipe the player who created a specific role). On the other hand, it becomes impossible for them to act until a certain player has been eliminated. This might be useful in the early game, but come late game, every has-to-be-eliminated player should already be eliminated. This just makes it easier for them to plan their shots. In addition, isn't it more advantegeous to keep Mafia completely in the dark? "Fear of the unknown is the greatest fear." That should apply to Mafia as well. Btw, is that Lovetap thing just a joke or an actual power? Who could possibly know the answer to the bolded other than skater guy? Why are you even asking this? Also your input on the claim discussion was wholly unnecessary, as the side you were arguing for was already well represented.
I can't understand how Xata's question can make you suspicious of him like you make it out to be.
How about this for a response:
1)Xata was DIRECTLY asking sk8 if his lovetap is a joke or serious
2)Xata wanted other people to chime in on that thing to make more sense of it
Your "case" doesn't convince me at all, and it doesn't convince me YOU are convinced he's scum (or you are suspicious of him) either.
After that you make "usual" posts, but sparse in between.
Different than WOS's interaction with people and activity in discussions, I just see you make ocassional posts arguing with WOS, or making some comments about some stuff other people said, etc.
And you ignore your own FoS on Xata and S&B, in the sense that it seems you don't care about it.
You ask nobody what they think of Xata/S&B. You make no effort whatsoever to either:
-Get them lynched
-Convince people they are scum/suspicious
-Get more thoughts about them to get better reads on people or drive discussion forward
-Get thoughts about them to convince yourself if they are scum or you are looking at the wrong direction
Instead of doing stuff like that, I see you have a pointless discussion about BC's meta, and you just appear to be in the "sidelines" of the BC discussion, appearing that you are contributing about it, but I just don't get the feeling you actually are.
That's what makes me suspicious of you.
....meh, I'll let you guys post your thoughts and shit, I'll take a closer look at Zepphird, and maybe reread Xata (I thought he was fairly town before he arrived here, another reason I didn't really understand solstice's FoS on him....nor WOS's either to be honest).
Again, tell me if I'm wrong with my approach to the Xata stuff. I thought he seemed fairly townie, for his initial "get ball rolling" case on WOS (I certainly got that feeling from it at least), his continued activity, his behaviour, etc.
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u gotta sk8
hai guise I back.
Gonzaw whassup?
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Anyways, yes, I think our focus should be on these people:
solstice (stuff I said before)
Kurumi (complained about people saying he's not trolling, did shit else)
S&B (I'm not too convinced in him being mafia, he's acted like this as town before I think, but won't hurt to put pressure on him)
Zepphird (bad initial post complaining, then uber bad next post with bland filler reads and shit)
Maybe kita, haven't read his filter yet but I don't remember anything worthwhile he said
I think the D1 lynch should be one of them (for now).
Yeah Xfire and austin didn't do shit, but well whatyougonna do they have to come back. If they come back obvious pressure and shit.
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Right now I'd lynch either solstice or Zepphird, but I'm waiting on people's thoughts on solstice (I have this little doubt in the back of my head that I'm overreacting or something)
If not we could kill Zepphird that's totally cool.
His "uber bad post" just has so many half-assed rushed filler reads it's not funny. Why would he do stuff like that then do 0 scumhunting at all?
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case too long; didn't read.
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but it was probably good, dw
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votecount
Votes:
BC (1) - Sk8rguy, Dandel Ion
WoS (1) - geript, Xatalos
Dandel Ion (2) - Kurumi, Zephirdd
Kurumi (1) - geript
SnB (1) - Acrofales
Acrofales (0) - WoS
austin (1) - kitaman
geript (1) - Dandel Ion
Dandel Ion is the leading bubba with 2 votes. 9 votes are needed to lynch a bubba.
Tell me if I missed anyone. Only votes in the voting thread count!
I'm off for the night
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On June 23 2013 09:16 geript wrote:
@Sk8ter. You missed my key question. How is it that pre-shot you have BC as 100% scum (of 130%) but aren't trying to use the shot to help divine BC's alignment? Your post shot conclusion is not a bigger better push on BC but that Dandel is town. Explain.
I have been gone for a bit partially to cool off, but also because i was asked to be a buddies groomsmen for his wedding and we were out for dinner, but this is kinda in the forethought of my mind.
I am not intending on harping on this a terrible amount but suffice to say this.
My shot was roleblocked / blocked in a manner that refunded my bullet. Given that veteran roles / bulletproofs don't refund shots just take lives off, the only solution is a roleblock of some sort. I find it odd that skater was claiming I faked a shot and calling me a liar based on the fact he didnt flip / he got no mod feedback about my shot not going through (he would not if i was blocked).
I can also confirm that I was targeted by at least 2 roles of the batch that sentinel was working through although I think It was actually 3.
I will be going through the thread briefly again with a clear head to see if anything stands out now.
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As for rough thoughts before I go to bed.
Meapak has done dick all which not uncharacteristic of him is something that has him on a radar. If he doesn't appear for anything aside from being modkilled/warned for inactivity I will have him down as scum until otherwise proven.
Sk8 is firmly a red read. You all can call me insane or crazy or bad, etc.. as much as you want. He has actively said
"The second part -
Killing anti town is not the same as killing scum. I will disagree with you there. Even if he believed I was anti town, acting on it day one is a poor move. I did post the new reads on BC after I believed it was fake, you are quoting only my most recent post."
A town only knows for sure someone is mafia given a flip, or red check with no dt fucking roles in the game with sane dt only mechanics. So me wanting to off an anti town is me aiming for scum and if it flips town it sucks but ends up not fucking town horribly. By actively saying "if he believed I was anti town acting on it day 1 is a poor move" that is saying trying to get scum killed day 1 is bad. He is also admitting to be anti town, ie NOT TOWN.
Dandel is really fucking weird after this events. I fully understand why he went ape shit on me. I do and find that perfectly normal. However
On June 23 2013 09:19 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2013 09:16 geript wrote:
@Sk8ter. You missed my key question. How is it that pre-shot you have BC as 100% scum (of 130%) but aren't trying to use the shot to help divine BC's alignment? Your post shot conclusion is not a bigger better push on BC but that Dandel is town. Explain. Look at this guy It's like he really wants people to read BC as scum (without calling him so himself) and like he really doesn't want people to see how supertown I am (without calling me scum himself) It's like he's scum.
This is wtf. Geript asked a question that actually makes a ton of sense. Rather than try and label me as scum, or scumhunt, sk8 comes out with dandel is town. Not only that, Dandel takes massive offense to this. The seeming need to be viewed as "super town" is weird. Day 1 no one should be viewed as super town nor be pissed if someone doesn't see them that way.
For the good.
Currently Gonza, and geript look really good. May have differing opinions but both seem to be performing as a town player should.
Kita should be heavily watched carefully until he starts to perform.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Spent like 3 hours today working on the mafia database, then got sucked into far too many games of LoL. I'll make sure to catch up first thing tomorrow.
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I am disappointed in yall.
I spent 6 hours getting drunk and thee is olny one page of new posts... and only BC and gonzaw wronte walls of test. Theyr're confirmed town imho. Rest. All scum. G'nigt
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I targetted BC early in the day so deal with it.
I think BC is town.
I am not sure on sk8r's alignment, but I dislike how he got full on arguing with BC instead of looking elsewhere.
Unless someone does something compelling of a case besides "Kurumi comes into thread, complains about its state, leaves" or "Kurumi is not trolling" I am going to ignore these posts like they don't exist. I don't give a damn about fluff accusations.
Dandel tries to light push me with bad arguments mentioned above, coupled with gonzaw and geript from the very start. Good luck on that guys.
BTW I made KP-type role, because people like to blow up stuff and I was drunk.
kita has a pathetic filter so far (short) he also lovetapped sk8r back in the start of the game
I REQUEST EVERYONE TO STOP LOVETAPPING SK8R FOR NO REASON, WE'RE ON DAY ONE.
Nobody said that already? Great.
Sadly I can't blow anyone up but if I could I'd kill kita or Dandel.
Oh, I am not changing my vote, sue me. Dandel is still not playing right: soft pushing me, seeding chaos from the very moment he comes back into thread together with pushing BC for some reason.
How much time till lynch?
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Also I share sentiment about killing people like grush with BC and that's why I believe he is town.
Kitaman, why did you lovetap sk8r OUT OF BLUE?
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Dandel's posting has been so... fucking stupid. Goes from the 75/25% mafia/town ratio(which is stupid) to calling BC a claimed SK to calling him a troll to saying his previous post is not what it actually is(semantics) etc... It's really stupid.
But then, post "zephirdd not putting effort into his reads"(which he is right; I'm not) he makes some half-decent points about geript.
Geript's points are not anti-town though. He is asking legit questions, pushing possible contradictions.
DI feels like he is trying to discredit/shut down possible questions that could corner someone.
My mind keeps flipfloping on Dandelion, and I keep going back(in my own restricted mind) to austin who has been gone for a while.
Dandelion, please do post your thoughts on austinmcc and maybe post his reasoning towards asking the questions he did towards me. Anyone else is free to do the same, but I'm extra interested in DI.
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Hey guys I'm here, this thread looks juicy. It's really late, we'll see how much I get through tonight but I'll be up and at 'em tomorrow.
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On June 23 2013 17:58 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Hey guys I'm here, this thread looks juicy. It's really late, we'll see how much I get through tonight but I'll be up and at 'em tomorrow.
I did not even notice you wanted to kill me in your first post! I am thrilled to hear more about that.
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Ok so here's what I see so far:
Note that for tonight I went through the filters of gonzaw, BC, and Kita because I feel like I know them best as players.
Gonzaw is looking very good to me, I agree with most of what he says and I like his points on zephrid.
BC is weird. idk wtf he was thinking with that shot (which is still very fishy) his anger feels very... forced I guess. I spent a while trying to decipher the shot and his attitude is general but in the end I'm just gonna go with too dumb to be scum (but wouldn't stake my life on that, I myself have tried the "too dumb to be scum" trick and it didn't work  )
Kita is troubling, I'm gonna call FoS on him. In particular, this post right here reeks:
On June 23 2013 04:27 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 11:59 Acrofales wrote:
Only way Kita is retarded enough to do this is that he is either in xxx's scumteam or made the lovetap role.
Just throwing that out there.
Oh, and
##vote Kitaman27 Show nested quote +On June 23 2013 02:27 Acrofales wrote:
As for who I have suspicions about? I've mentioned them in my filter.
SnB: I expect more from him.
WoS: for fumbling over the tryhard pants.
Zephirdd: for being angry at people for not posting anything useful while not posting anything useful.
Slight pings on my scumdar:
Kurumi: for being D1 Kurumi
BC: for being D1 BC and coming up with a pretty bogus artificial reason for being against my plan.
Xatalos: for seeming insincere in his early tryhard posts. FOS Acro for claiming to believe that I'm either scum or the xxx role creator and then proceeding to leave me off his list of suspicions. Makes me question whether or not his reads or real. I also think enough people have shot down his bad role claim idea that he doesn't need to continue pushing it. He is sharing enough opinions though that I don't want to lynch him yet though. Does anyone remember off the top of their head what was the game where tnkted (?) had that role where he had to get people to respond to his ## power in the thread? I had thought it was PTP 1, but apparently not. I don't like skater or WoS lynches right now. ##Vote AustinI think austin would be a good person to consider right now. He commented on a role plan that had already been beaten to death and that's about it.
Firstly he FoS's acro for a really dumb reason, then he goes and votes austin without much more than "he commented on something popular" which is very weak. He asks kinda pointless questions and then apologizes for inactivity when no one had even called him out. I really expect a lot more out of town kita.
Now I'd like to talk about how people reacted after BC's shot because I think it reveals some very telling things.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 23 2013 04:34 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2013 04:29 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On June 23 2013 04:28 s0Lstice wrote:
yea well I think skater just died... unless he has an ability that defends from day shots, yes, yes he is. See, now we have a problem. If he flips newbie town (which may or may not have been completely obvious depending on how you think about it) then you may again be finding yourself getting lynched D1. Reasoning: I don't think his posting warranted a vig shot as he was contributing. This means the rationale for a shot like that is supposedly that BC thinks Skater is scum, which given the way he has played isn't completely obvious. Skater could very well have been noob town and BC is good enough to know this. On June 23 2013 04:35 s0Lstice wrote:
You are alive until a mod flips you.
I hope I'm wrong, but I really am not a fan of this BC. He was at least talking a lot, and would have been readable more and more as we continued...annoying or not, I think you just killed a townie.
These two posts strike me as really odd, especially WoS's. Think about it, townies don't know who is town (obviously) and yet both of these people are pretty quick, and by quick I mean within a few posts of BC shooting, to call Sk8 town. The instant I read BC's shot I actually assumed it was a fake and he was just looking for people to suddenly jump out and defend sk8 as if they somehow knew he would flip town. Now we still don't know sk8's alignment (I am personally a fan of gonzaw's post here describing the situation) but we can still see if either solstice or WoS acted strangely in their defense of sk8.
Solstice was arguing against BC in the pages before the "shot", WoS on the other hand was actually much more in line with BC's thinking before the death as we can see here + Show Spoiler +On June 23 2013 04:11 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2013 04:04 xxSK8rGUy277xx wrote:On June 23 2013 03:49 s0Lstice wrote:On June 23 2013 03:45 xxSK8rGUy277xx wrote:On June 23 2013 03:37 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
You didn't even bother answering why you aren't pushing your scum reads. Why aren't you? Making lists with 0 reasoning behind it or solid commitment to your read is useless and is incredibly scummy. You are my scum read, which I have committed to pushing. Making a day 1 list of who I think is scummy is not scummy. Of course i'm not going to push them, because really they are just lists. If you want to be technical, yes I was not serious when I said 100%. It's day 1, you should assume that I was not 100% sure. Defending and discrediting me so hard on day one however, is scummy. Hearing that you died d1 your past few PTP's makes me feel bad. I might consider doing a pity unvote. This actually makes him look more town imo. The stuff you are doing in regards to him is not at all going to get him lynched, so as scum he would be free and without fear to let you call him scum with no reasoning, and to no effect, rather than put fuel on the fire by getting in your face about it. Sure. You can see it that way. This is Day one, so a lot of my 100% scum reads are going to likely change. First post, reveals that he has a cool/ good role. Which makes me think he has a poor role and wants to blend. Then he wants to deny me from activating my role. Along with other players. With 0 information on what it would be. A scum would not want a town to activate their role because they are unsure of what it could be. Then he tries to get me to change my vote to SnB. As you said, my pressure is not going to get him lynched so why would he care if he had one vote on him? I didn't want to be derailed. On June 23 2013 03:21 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On June 23 2013 03:17 Kurumi wrote:
I am known for trollish behaviour but I can't recall last time I made a picture for a Mafia game, that's Palmar or Blazinghand you're speaking of geript.
BC, do you think you might die to D1 lynch? Don't care if I do. Anyone dumb enough to lynch me day 1 is completely retarded. I get suspected every game day 1 and i am almost always town when this happens. Ptp is prime example of this. I actually had no meta experience of BC, so my voting did not matter from this. For a guy trying to be apathetic about getting killed day 1, he is trying very hard to keep that from happening. Against my very weak fos. Whoa, wow. This post is horrible and reeks of bias. Show nested quote +First post, reveals that he has a cool/ good role. Which makes me think he has a poor role and wants to blend. You have absolutely no way of knowing this whatsoever. My role is pretty damn hilarious. What does it mean that I just said that? Show nested quote +Then he wants to deny me from activating my role. Along with other players. With 0 information on what it would be. A scum would not want a town to activate their role because they are unsure of what it could be. I also denied you your role, you know, because you could be scum and giving you an advantage is bad? You are completely neglecting to take into account town perspectives in your post at all, and it looks as though you're just trying as hard as you can to place BC in a scummy light.
Even if WoS didn't flat out call sk8 scum, you can't deny there is still a sudden tone change in those two posts. This could be coincidence and an honest change of opinion by WoS or it could be scum positioning themselves better if sk8 flipped town. This would be a lot more clear cut if sk8 had actually flipped (If he flipped scum this wouldn't even be an issue) but I think it's significant enough that I'm gonna FoS WoS, put my vote on him in case I don't wake up for the deadline, and if I do I'm gonna take a serious look at him.
Ok it's three am and this logic makes sense in my head, if no one understands this just pepper me with questions and I'll try to explain it tomorrow.
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Okay, now I've had time to go through the last pages and reread some filters. Unfortunately I'm typing on our iPad, so it's a pain to write and edit this wall of text. At least I'll be home before deadline...
First things first. Gonzaw is looking purely town to me. The amount of constructive discussion he has added to the thread (focusing on Mafia hunting especially) has been enormous. I'd even go as far to say that if he's Mafia, he's playing against his win-condition and setting himself + his team up for a quick defeat. Not as sure about Acrofales, but his strong activity and pretty good focus on scumhunting makes him probably town in my eyes. BC is more of a question mark to me. Apparently his vig-shot was real after all (?). In any case, his hyper-aggressive pushing, strong confidence in his own opinions and lack of care for possibly getting lynched for such behaviour makes him feel pretty townish. At least that's the general feeling I get from him, and it should be enough for now.
Then there are a ton of useless (completely or mostly) lurkers. Meapak, Zephirdd, austinmcc, strongandbig and Crossfire99. None of them are lynch-worthy right now IMO, but if this anti-town playstyle continues, I'd like a Vig-shot (or something like that) into this lurkish group. There's probably 1-2 Mafia in there, and even if not, nothing of value has been lost. Especially austinmcc makes me feel suspicious. I remember one previous game where we played together. His playstyle was radically different: I was basically certain of him being town during D1. Now, he has just posted weak filler material and questions from others, nothing really of his own.
These following players would make excellent targets for investigation during N1: geript, Kitaman27, sk8r, Dandel Ion. They all give me conflicting reads and basically make it impossible to say their alignment with any confidence. They've all been reasonably active though, so I want to see more of them during D2. Lynching or shooting them now wouldn't be optimal IMO.
Then there are three players who I'd be ready to lynch today: Kurumi, S0lstice, WaveofShadow. WaveofShadow caught my attention early on with some weak scummy signals (most notably the forced "tryhard" attitude and just generally a cautious/forced approach to posting). His response to my pressure was also pretty weird, with a really apologetic tone and shifting the attention to Acrofales with quite "forced" reasoning. Other players have also brought up good points about some strange or outright scummy parts of his later play.
Gonzaw made a good case on S0lstice and got me very curious about S0lstice's approach to the game. It feels like he's just throwing accusations here and there, somewhat participating in discussion but not really "pushing" anything, more like reacting to what others do. A really scummy approach to playing the game overall. Lynchable? Yes. More lynchable than WaveofShadow? Not sure yet.
Kurumi is almost a lurker, but not quite. What makes me suspicious is especially his highly defensive and passive-aggressive attitude to any suspicion directed towards him. He seems to like side-stepping accusations or attacking his accuser, not discussing the actual accusations or doing anything *positive* for the thread at all. Least scummy of these three IMO, but still on the scummy side.
I'll keep my vote on WaveofShadow for now, but I'll have to read his filter again (especially the later parts). Someone mentioned that he also made towny posts, but I didn't notice that yet, so gotta recheck what all he wrote... Be back later.
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EPT
