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I'll have to go bad and look again, but there's still no assurance you're town. My point is that berating someone for shooting anti-town town before they flip isn't something that town actually can do as they aren't informed on who's town or not.
On June 23 2013 05:41 Dandel Ion wrote:
why are you trying to play like in LXI? (need i remind you of the outcome?)
You could be trying to improve instead of repeating the same old mistakes, and you not doing so has a clear motivation as mafia since it's ez town meta to mold yourself into
As town, the explanation is basically that you are unwilling to learn from your mistakes. Do you want me to think that of you? Cuz it seems like you do.
This post comes in wholly assuming that BC and St8ter are town. Yet, for much of this time Dandel has been pushing BC as a lynch target. Those mind sets don't match at all especially since Dandel was berating BC for shooting at anti town town.
So why do you think that Dandel's actions make him look towny Sk8ter?
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I guess you could say that.
Well.
Provided you don't read half of my post.
Then you can.
But you should maybe read the whole post.
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Anybody feel like claiming they roleblocked BC? That whole thing just played out extremely weirdly... but I also think it pretty much confirms BC as a dayvig. I don't see any reason at all to lie about the ability and the way it played out as either alignment.
If he is scum, then a townie with a town read on sk8er was quick on the trigger. In this case, it almost HAS to be a post-hoc roleblock, because I don't see a townie bothering to roleblock when all BC was doing was talking about deliberating about shooting.
If he is town, then there's the added possibility that sk8er is scum and has a scumbuddy who can daytime (post-hoc?) roleblock. In this case it could have been a quick roleblock before he actually shot.
Did anybody design a role that could have done a post-hoc roleblock? If not, I think we should lynch sk8er.
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Shush. I'm not asking you the question.
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Also, I'll be looking at sk8er's reactions after the shot, because I wasn't really trying to figure out alignment at the time, assuming he was dead. However, it seems like the reaction to being shot should be pretty telling, and I don't remember sk8er being particularly useful (no last minute reads, and lots of QQ). Will take another look.
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On June 23 2013 07:29 geript wrote:I'll have to go bad and look again, but there's still no assurance you're town. My point is that berating someone for shooting anti-town town before they flip isn't something that town actually can do as they aren't informed on who's town or not. Show nested quote +On June 23 2013 05:41 Dandel Ion wrote:
why are you trying to play like in LXI? (need i remind you of the outcome?)
You could be trying to improve instead of repeating the same old mistakes, and you not doing so has a clear motivation as mafia since it's ez town meta to mold yourself into
As town, the explanation is basically that you are unwilling to learn from your mistakes. Do you want me to think that of you? Cuz it seems like you do. This post comes in wholly assuming that BC and St8ter are town. Yet, for much of this time Dandel has been pushing BC as a lynch target. Those mind sets don't match at all especially since Dandel was berating BC for shooting at anti town town. So why do you think that Dandel's actions make him look towny Sk8ter?
I can not prove I am town. It can only be stated and looked at retroactively to find other towns after I flip.
True, but everyone can agree that him using his day vig ability was not a good play. Town would not want the vig to go and kill again with such a poor reason.
A Mafia would not mind having a Vigi that randomly shoots town trolls, and would not speak against it.
I am not seeing what makes you think he is asusming BC and myself are town. He was comparing BC to another game and saying if he is town, he is not playing well. Dandel would assume that BC would not continue to play poorly and instead concluded that he is scum. *My interpretation, Dandel may have been thinking something else.
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On June 23 2013 07:50 xxSK8rGUy277xx wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2013 07:29 geript wrote:I'll have to go bad and look again, but there's still no assurance you're town. My point is that berating someone for shooting anti-town town before they flip isn't something that town actually can do as they aren't informed on who's town or not. On June 23 2013 05:41 Dandel Ion wrote:
why are you trying to play like in LXI? (need i remind you of the outcome?)
You could be trying to improve instead of repeating the same old mistakes, and you not doing so has a clear motivation as mafia since it's ez town meta to mold yourself into
As town, the explanation is basically that you are unwilling to learn from your mistakes. Do you want me to think that of you? Cuz it seems like you do. This post comes in wholly assuming that BC and St8ter are town. Yet, for much of this time Dandel has been pushing BC as a lynch target. Those mind sets don't match at all especially since Dandel was berating BC for shooting at anti town town. So why do you think that Dandel's actions make him look towny Sk8ter? I can not prove I am town. It can only be stated and looked at retroactively to find other towns after I flip. True, but everyone can agree that him using his day vig ability was not a good play. Town would not want the vig to go and kill again with such a poor reason. A Mafia would not mind having a Vigi that randomly shoots town trolls, and would not speak against it. I am not seeing what makes you think he is asusming BC and myself are town. He was comparing BC to another game and saying if he is town, he is not playing well. Dandel would assume that BC would not continue to play poorly and instead concluded that he is scum. *My interpretation, Dandel may have been thinking something else.
^
see this guy is townie as fuck
deal with it
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On to page 17
On June 23 2013 01:56 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2013 01:46 xxSK8rGUy277xx wrote:StrongandBig, WaveofShadow, and BC are the scums 100%. Sk8 for MVP. Thank you, good night. Also about my role, the player who wrote it wanted to gain an advantage on player roles. Everyone suspects something, but only he and I know what it does and now he knows the role he received and mine. Possibly more if he is scum. I thought about not doing it, but then he still wins if he is scum by knowing i'm out there not using my abilities. Meta-scum >  Care to explain exactly what you're talking about in this post? Also sorry about letting my tryhard pants fall off, guys, I forgot to put on a belt and someone pantsed me. In all honestly the reason my posing twas crap then picked up and devolved again is because having never played in this kind of a game before I wasn't exactly sure how seriously people take it and how hard town/scum really try to win (ie do people scumhunt as normal with crazy as fuck roles flying around). It seems as though while there is likely to be more trolling in a game sch as this, people definitely do still want to win; as such I will begin to contribute in earnest. I'm still not sure of you, Acro. Why haven't you commented much on what Xatalos has to say about me aside from you sharing his suspicions? I am arguably his strongest scumread and so I probably warrant discussion, yet you keep bringing conversation into role-claiming/setup speculation type stuff.
Okay this post is giving me red flags.
1) Half-assed apology for some unrelated "try hard" shit. He feels pressure and succumbs to it. Bad sign, scum tell right there.
0 confidence, but when it relates to "easy" pressure. Would a townie have this "breakdown" (basically begging people to forgive him for acting like he did about tryhard pants stuff) like this?
If I was a townie I wouldn't feel much pressure, at least not how townies feel pressure and feel the need to apologize about this kind of thing
Scum feel pressure from the get go, so it's more likely for them to succumb to it in this way (happens to me most of the time as well, at times someone asks you a random question and you still feel pressured by him).
2) Is he seriously accusing Acro for not commenting on Xata's case on him? This feels so random. You don't "not feel sure" about someone because of stuff like that.
"But gonzaw! Xata made a case! Townies are supposed to comment on cases! Maybe WOS is right!"
How about you go and read my previous post.
Xata's case was obviously a "get the ball rolling one". I ignored it because I knew it was "bullshit" from the get go and was just wishful thinking from Xata to get people to start doing something.
If Acro felt the same way, then congrats because it shows he has a (smart) townie mindset
WOS doesn't seem to feel the same way though. In fact, he uses it as EVIDENCE of his suspicions on Acro....his ONLY evidence.
This feels off to me. Maybe WOS just failed to realize that stuff, but to accuse Acro for something at worst actually makes him more likely town is bad.
Meh I'll keep reading, but that's my thoughts on this stuff while I do.
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I guess my biggest concern is that while I'm reading the thread I have no reason to think of Acro as scum, and hell would even say he's likely to be town
WOS's "reasons" for FoSing him seem bullshit to me in that regard. I don't know how the hell he's reading the thread, but I just don't know if a townie would really read the thread and come to that conclusion about Acro based on that "flimsy" evidence.
Maybe I'm just extrapolating my own behaviour and mindset in this game to him, so I hope I get more feedback on this and see if I'm the only one.
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So... all I really get from sk8er's posts after the shot is that he is incredibly quick to assume it's a fake. I don't see how he did that so fast, as I (and seeming thread opinion) thought it was real.
Either he truly thought it was fake (possible) or he was anticipating it failing due to either his own ability (which he has denied), or a scumbuddy's ability. I'll make more sense of this later, but whereas I was pretty confident he was noobie town before the shot failed, I am now far from sure.
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Well, I haven't read the shot (whatever happened) thing, but here's my rundown on XXX so far:
He's new to TL. He said he isn't new to mafia though, so we shouldn't just assume he's a noob
If he was scum this would be a perfect opportunity to play some mild noob cards though. More subtle noob cards of course, maybe like what WoS is doing (apologize to the slightest of pressure, act like you dont' really know what to do, etc).
So, he's not doing that, so let's just ignore that.
What he IS doing is act confident, active, and just interact with people and seem sure of himself.
I don't see him posting with hesitation and stuff.
It's true he has no "meta" because he hasn't played in TL before, so I can't really say 100% if this makes him town or not (maybe he acts like this as scum all the time in other forums), but EXACTLY that leaves to a different conclusion: XXX has no "meta" on us either.
So, XXX has no meta knowledge of us, he doesn't know us. With that in mind, would he act like this as his 1st scum game in TL (which is also his 1st game in TL as well)? Would he be this "reckless" in that sense? He doesn't know any of us so he doesn't know what to expect, he wouldn't know how we'll react, etc.
If he was scum I think he'd be more cautious because of this fact, and when I read his posts "cautious" is the last thing I think of.
My 2 cents...
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WoS- our discussion gave you townie points for me. your interpretation of the meta standpoint, while I didn't agree with it, showed an effort by you at solving the situation. like I said earlier, I think you firmly believed in your analysis, and that's the important take-away, not right or wrong.
Kita and Acro jumped the shark while I was away. WTF guys
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On June 23 2013 08:12 gonzaw wrote:
Well, I haven't read the shot (whatever happened) thing, but here's my rundown on XXX so far:
He's new to TL. He said he isn't new to mafia though, so we shouldn't just assume he's a noob
If he was scum this would be a perfect opportunity to play some mild noob cards though. More subtle noob cards of course, maybe like what WoS is doing (apologize to the slightest of pressure, act like you dont' really know what to do, etc).
So, he's not doing that, so let's just ignore that.
What he IS doing is act confident, active, and just interact with people and seem sure of himself.
I don't see him posting with hesitation and stuff.
It's true he has no "meta" because he hasn't played in TL before, so I can't really say 100% if this makes him town or not (maybe he acts like this as scum all the time in other forums), but EXACTLY that leaves to a different conclusion: XXX has no "meta" on us either.
So, XXX has no meta knowledge of us, he doesn't know us. With that in mind, would he act like this as his 1st scum game in TL (which is also his 1st game in TL as well)? Would he be this "reckless" in that sense? He doesn't know any of us so he doesn't know what to expect, he wouldn't know how we'll react, etc.
If he was scum I think he'd be more cautious because of this fact, and when I read his posts "cautious" is the last thing I think of.
My 2 cents...
That was my reasoning too before the shot.
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Acro, how do you feel about solstice?
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I think I might want to kill him instead.
If someone wants to have free town points in my mind, try to pinpoint which post made me think that
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lol this should be good.
Acro...skater was the target of the shot, time is going to dilate for him while waiting for a mod post, hence he'll be the one to decide its fake first.
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Just a sidenote:
BC, damn dude. I can see why you get lynched D1 so often lol
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State of the game:
I don't think we should lynch BC. Whether you think the shot was smart or dumb, I don't see much scum motivation for drawing all this attention just to kill a newbie. Even if his shot is a public shot (which I don't know), I feel he could have waited and by playing his cards right, take out a higher value target later. Which makes him town throwing a derp.
geript could be scum. He started all trolly, then promised to put on his tryhard pants and actually read the thread. Umpteen hours later he has still done nothing, except post a number of filler posts and ask some questions. He is not contributing at all. Not a bad lynch.
still not comfortable with WoS, but I am more confident that I can get a better read on him later on. I won't really consider him a priority right now.
SnB has done nothing all game, except have a pretty shoddy case on sk8er. Good lynch, because a lurking, useless SnB is a scum SnB.
Xfire: afk. Not much else to say about him atm. I am confident in my ability to read him, though.
Kita: underperforming. But his post on BC echoed my thoughts before I had posted them, so he could just be busy or not caring. This happens with Kita.
austin: focused on Zephir. Not necessarily a bad thing, but has done absolutely nothing else. Pretty null, which is troubling for someone who is good at looking very townie. Might consider lynching if he continues doing nothing tomorrow.
DI: being needlessly aggressive and irritating. I associate this with townies (sometimes wrongfully, like Mocsta) and have never played a scumgame with DI. There's also the whole "Alliance" thing, which is good enough for a D1 read. Don't lynch.
sk8er: still wondering. Need more actual content, rather than large amounts of filler posts. Hopefully roleclaims will clear this mess up.
Everybody else: not a priority or town read.
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On June 23 2013 07:50 xxSK8rGUy277xx wrote:
I am not seeing what makes you think he is asusming BC and myself are town. He was comparing BC to another game and saying if he is town, he is not playing well. Dandel would assume that BC would not continue to play poorly and instead concluded that he is scum. *My interpretation, Dandel may have been thinking something else.
In LXI BC played terribly and gave the game to scum on a silver platter. The assumption is that he's playing badly again and therefor town. But if he's playing badly and shoots you, that impugns that you're town (shooting scum d1 is good play obviously).
On June 23 2013 06:59 xxSK8rGUy277xx wrote:
Berating a vigi who will kill people that are anti town is in hopes that he will not continue day killing for no reason. A very pro town thing. However, since Dandel is in the same position as me i.e. Threatened by an over-emotional vigi. It makes sense that he is going to call him out on making a bad decision.
The thing is as a vigi, you're supposed to kill anti town elements. How is it that you've come out of this whole D1 shot scenario with the fact that Dandel is town instead of trying to get a better read on BC or be able to build a good case on BC being scum?
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On June 23 2013 08:47 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2013 07:50 xxSK8rGUy277xx wrote:
I am not seeing what makes you think he is asusming BC and myself are town. He was comparing BC to another game and saying if he is town, he is not playing well. Dandel would assume that BC would not continue to play poorly and instead concluded that he is scum. *My interpretation, Dandel may have been thinking something else. In LXI BC played terribly and gave the game to scum on a silver platter. The assumption is that he's playing badly again and therefor town. But if he's playing badly and shoots you, that impugns that you're town (shooting scum d1 is good play obviously). Show nested quote +On June 23 2013 06:59 xxSK8rGUy277xx wrote:
Berating a vigi who will kill people that are anti town is in hopes that he will not continue day killing for no reason. A very pro town thing. However, since Dandel is in the same position as me i.e. Threatened by an over-emotional vigi. It makes sense that he is going to call him out on making a bad decision. The thing is as a vigi, you're supposed to kill anti town elements. How is it that you've come out of this whole D1 shot scenario with the fact that Dandel is town instead of trying to get a better read on BC or be able to build a good case on BC being scum?
Why do you want people to think BC is scum without calling him scum yourself?
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EPT
