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On May 04 2013 05:43 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 03:38 Rimstalker wrote:
the two biggest parties, that are supposedly socialists and conservatives are actually that close that the individual opinions of the respective candidates often overlap or even criss-cross.
For my decision-making process about whom to vote for, I have found the following to work for me: The biggest German news magazine (Der Spiegel) sends questionnaires to all the candidates, asking them for their stance on something like 50 political topics (gay marriage, nuclear power, abortion, legalization of weed, speed limit on the Autobahn, etc.) and puts the data online so that you can do nice comparisons of all the candidates in your electorate. I use this to see which one is the least retarded in my opinion, he/she gets my vote. The 2nd vote goes to the small party that I feel closest to and that actually has a chance of making it into the parliament. Lately, this have been the Pirates. Its only the second vote that matters anyway.
Thats not true
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Zurich15306 Posts
On May 04 2013 00:58 IBringUFire wrote:Good analysis. However, zatic, I'd strongly recommend changing The Piracy Party to The Pirate Party. Piracy is a different thing, although I'm sure there will be pirate party members supporting free data for all movements. Edit: Just to make it more certain. It's The Pirate Party everywhere. :-)
Sure thing, changed.
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I studied politics in university, though mostly international relations and American politics, so learning about Germany is very interesting. I was a little surprised to hear that the successor party to the East German Communist party is still alive and kicking, but of course that was the main party for a significant period of time for a significant part of the country.
One thing I'd be interested to know is how these parties play across a more regional level. In the US, for example, the Democrats and Republicans have offices and branches in every state and nearly every county, it's only in the most extreme local towns that the minority party doesn't bother contesting an election. I'd imagine that with 5 major parties there might be more regional variance in Germany. Are particular parties associated with dominance in particular regions?
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On May 04 2013 08:14 jubil wrote:
I studied politics in university, though mostly international relations and American politics, so learning about Germany is very interesting. I was a little surprised to hear that the successor party to the East German Communist party is still alive and kicking, but of course that was the main party for a significant period of time for a significant part of the country.
One thing I'd be interested to know is how these parties play across a more regional level. In the US, for example, the Democrats and Republicans have offices and branches in every state and nearly every county, it's only in the most extreme local towns that the minority party doesn't bother contesting an election. I'd imagine that with 5 major parties there might be more regional variance in Germany. Are particular parties associated with dominance in particular regions?
Absolutly, yes. Bavaria for example is dominated by the CSU, the party "Die Linke" is way more succssesfull in east germany and the saarland then in the rest of they country. Looking at smaller regions, there are even bigger differences between the single regions.
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Are particular parties associated with dominance in particular regions?
What's particularly interesting is that at the moment most states are run by SPD/Die Grünen, instead of the CDU. That also results in a majority in the "Bundesrat" for those parties. So although there is little doubt that Angela Merkel will be Chancellor for another period, the conservative parties have a little bit of trouble on a state/regional level.
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I am as usual delighted to read another piece on our neighbors to the south. I wish you a good election when the time comes.
+ Show Spoiler +that feel when Denmark will never be part of the Bundesrepublik ;_;
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What I took from this is that it seems like the German population is fairly moderate and center-thinking because every party you mentioned has been forced to sway towards the center. I applaud this. Nice write-up, I enjoyed the picture very much.
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On May 04 2013 08:33 Paljas wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 08:14 jubil wrote:
I studied politics in university, though mostly international relations and American politics, so learning about Germany is very interesting. I was a little surprised to hear that the successor party to the East German Communist party is still alive and kicking, but of course that was the main party for a significant period of time for a significant part of the country.
One thing I'd be interested to know is how these parties play across a more regional level. In the US, for example, the Democrats and Republicans have offices and branches in every state and nearly every county, it's only in the most extreme local towns that the minority party doesn't bother contesting an election. I'd imagine that with 5 major parties there might be more regional variance in Germany. Are particular parties associated with dominance in particular regions? Absolutly, yes. Bavaria for example is dominated by the CSU, the party "Die Linke" is way more succssesfull in east germany and the saarland then in the rest of they country. Looking at smaller regions, there are even bigger differences between the single regions.
and iirc: the conservative parties (CDU/CSU and FDP) are less popular in urban areas where you rather vote for SPD or Die Grünen. But I dont have any source to back it up, maybe I'll find something.
Personally, I dont really know what I'm going to do during the elections. I'm rather a left side voter but I feel like the parties are missing identity. CDU and SPD become more similar from day to day, looking for the "middle-class center", FDP is nothing but a market-liberal party (lulz) and B'90/Grüne promise P before the elections and do not-P when part of the governing coalition. The other parties are not really an option for me either, I guess (pirates too vague, AfD too populist). So I guess I'll just enter the polling booth and write "SCHEISSVEREIN" on the paper.
But then again, I really don't like Merkel's euro politics and would like to see some change there. But since she is already seeded as chancellor, no change will happen.
By the way, what are your thoughts on the new election system? The Überhangmandate (atm +22 people for CDU/CSU "for free") should be balanced by Ausgleichsmandate (that would be + >50 more people in the Bundestag for the rest of the parties). I cant tell if this will really balance the system or if it'll just unnecessarily extend the size of the Bundestag.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On May 04 2013 08:33 Paljas wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 08:14 jubil wrote:
I studied politics in university, though mostly international relations and American politics, so learning about Germany is very interesting. I was a little surprised to hear that the successor party to the East German Communist party is still alive and kicking, but of course that was the main party for a significant period of time for a significant part of the country.
One thing I'd be interested to know is how these parties play across a more regional level. In the US, for example, the Democrats and Republicans have offices and branches in every state and nearly every county, it's only in the most extreme local towns that the minority party doesn't bother contesting an election. I'd imagine that with 5 major parties there might be more regional variance in Germany. Are particular parties associated with dominance in particular regions? Absolutly, yes. Bavaria for example is dominated by the CSU, the party "Die Linke" is way more succssesfull in east germany and the saarland then in the rest of they country. Looking at smaller regions, there are even bigger differences between the single regions.
To add to this, winning a regional seat is one way minor parties in NZ (and by extension, Germany) can get into parliament without meeting the 5% threshold. Some parties actually rely on the popularity of one of their members to have representation in parliament. If a party gets, say, 4.5% of the vote - which normally means they do not make it into parliament - but one of their members wins an electorate then suddenly that 4.5% matters and a proportional amount of extra people from that party make it into parliament for the next term.
It can get confusing, but it does encourage minorities to attempt to stand and to get minority views reflected in government.
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I never knew german politics were so peaceful. I'm used to most American elections, which tend to be dominated by mostly appeals to swing voters and an understanding of who is already voting for what of the two main contender parties. This is a lot different where it seems that this year it is understood who will win.
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For those interested in the local strengths & weaknesses, you can look at the local results of the 2009 election in the german wikipedia.. I dont think you need to understand german to understand the graphics. They give the idea about where which party is strong; these areas don't change and the graphics would look the same no matter if a party is having a good or a bad election.
Atm I feel too lazy to explain the "why" of those graphics, but if some people are interested, I might do this later; or some germans might give some insight about their local areas.
Also about the FDP being in doubt of getting 5%: I (unfortunately) don't see how the FDP could get less than 5% in the election. Whenever there was any such doubt before, a more than sufficient number of CDU-voters were voting for the FDP as they were essentially still voting for the same "bloc" of parties. See the last election in Lower Saxony. I'm wuite conviced this would happen again.
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On May 04 2013 17:02 Mafe wrote:For those interested in the local strengths & weaknesses, you can look at the local results of the 2009 election in the german wikipedia.. I dont think you need to understand german to understand the graphics. They give the idea about where which party is strong; these areas don't change and the graphics would look the same no matter if a party is having a good or a bad election. Atm I feel too lazy to explain the "why" of those graphics, but if some people are interested, I might do this later; or some germans might give some insight about their local areas. Also about the FDP being in doubt of getting 5%: I (unfortunately) don't see how the FDP could get less than 5% in the election. Whenever there was any such doubt before, a more than sufficient number of CDU-voters were voting for the FDP as they were essentially still voting for the same "bloc" of parties. See the last election in Lower Saxony. I'm wuite conviced this would happen again.
Die Linke in that picture  yep!
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Zurich15306 Posts
On May 04 2013 17:02 Mafe wrote:For those interested in the local strengths & weaknesses, you can look at the local results of the 2009 election in the german wikipedia.. I dont think you need to understand german to understand the graphics. They give the idea about where which party is strong; these areas don't change and the graphics would look the same no matter if a party is having a good or a bad election. Atm I feel too lazy to explain the "why" of those graphics, but if some people are interested, I might do this later; or some germans might give some insight about their local areas.
I'll take that
As you can see in the picture, the Union (CDU/CSU) is fairly well represented across the country, with little regional weight. The only are where they are weak is at the core of former Eastern Germany. There is not much to say about this other than that conservative ideas seem to have appeal everywhere. The CSU is only represented in Bavaria (the South East), which also happens to be the most conservative state in Germany.
The SPD is strong primarily in the (former) industrial areas. Their home ground is the area of the steel and (now largely defunct) coal industries around the Ruhr river in the West, and other areas with high numbers of blue color jobs, like the Wolfsburg (Volkswagen HQ) area. They are still fairly well represented all over the country, but the blue color job regions are their strength. Also they are historically weak in the South simply because when they were founded some 150 years ago the South was not part of Germany/Prussia.
You can definitely see that the FDP is strong mostly in the South-West. As the party traditionally most appealing to the wealthy that makes sense, since there is a rather steep deferential from poor to affluent between the North-East and the South-West in Germany in general. Also historically German liberalism has its strongest roots in the South West.
The Left party is very easy to explain. As a successor to the communist party of Eastern Germany, the vast majority of their votes come from Eastern Germany.
The Green party is somewhat similar to the FDP in that they are strongest in the wealthy areas. Additionally the South West is known for being environmentally conscious. They are also particularly successful in large urban areas (Munich, Hamburg, Berlin).
For the Pirate Party it is interesting how well spread out their support is. There is only a slight lean towards the East, and they too are very strong in urban areas.
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Zurich15306 Posts
On May 04 2013 13:18 docvoc wrote:
I never knew german politics were so peaceful. I'm used to most American elections, which tend to be dominated by mostly appeals to swing voters and an understanding of who is already voting for what of the two main contender parties. This is a lot different where it seems that this year it is understood who will win.
Well you can compare this election with the US 1996 presidential election rather than the 2004 or later ones. Clinton in 1996 was also basically untouchable and at no point did the opposition have any chance.
It is true though that in general campaigning and elections are much less hostile than in the US. And as you can see from the party profiles, most parties try to appeal to a large center base, whereas the right and left wings in the US seem to have much more weight in dictating public discourse.
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On May 04 2013 18:23 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 13:18 docvoc wrote:
I never knew german politics were so peaceful. I'm used to most American elections, which tend to be dominated by mostly appeals to swing voters and an understanding of who is already voting for what of the two main contender parties. This is a lot different where it seems that this year it is understood who will win. Well you can compare this election with the US 1996 presidential election rather than the 2004 or later ones. Clinton in 1996 was also basically untouchable and at no point did the opposition have any chance. It is true though that in general campaigning and elections are much less hostile than in the US. And as you can see from the party profiles, most parties try to appeal to a large center base, whereas the right and left wings in the US seem to have much more weight in dictating public discourse.
I think the "peacefulness" also comes from the fact that comparative advertising is so highly regulated it's practically impossible. (But I'm no expert on this subject)
Also in a multi-party-system, why would party A invest resources to make another party B unpopular? Even if party A suceeds, there former voters from party B might just as well turn towards parties C,D,E,... instead of party A. Only that those other parties did not have to put up much energy for this. This is much different from a 2 party system. In esports terms, parties in germany need to act more as FFA-players, whereas in 2-party-systems like the USA it's more like 1on1.
Both aspects and maybe some more contribute to (in advertising, but not in discussions) parties only present themselves and not beating much on other parties.
But truth be told, for this particular election, I also feel that the outcome won't change much. I'm much more frustrated with our politics than I was some years ago, I feel we have lots of parties to vote for, but in the end all will more or less do the same. Also most of the main parties seem have programs which tend to equally reflect views/positions I approve and such that I oppose. I'm seriously consideríng protest-voting the pirates.
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On May 04 2013 10:18 beef42 wrote:I am as usual delighted to read another piece on our neighbors to the south. I wish you a good election when the time comes. + Show Spoiler +that feel when Denmark will never be part of the Bundesrepublik ;_;
Is there actually a pro "Join ze germanz" sentiment among some danes? This is the first time I see someone express sth. like this. Maybe I misunderstood your spoiler? I always thought you were closer to the (other) scandinavians.
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On May 05 2013 00:34 Monsen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 10:18 beef42 wrote:I am as usual delighted to read another piece on our neighbors to the south. I wish you a good election when the time comes. + Show Spoiler +that feel when Denmark will never be part of the Bundesrepublik ;_; Is there actually a pro "Join ze germanz" sentiment among some danes? This is the first time I see someone express sth. like this. Maybe I misunderstood your spoiler? I always thought you were closer to the (other) scandinavians.
I think it is mostly just me. I am a bit of a federalist - if I can't have a European superstate, (with things as they are... you know) I would settle for joining Germany. I think old style borders and territory are quickly becoming obsolete towards a globalized, multicultural future for everyone.
edit: and yeah, it seems to me that the German government runs a tighter ship than my own
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On May 05 2013 07:13 beef42 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2013 00:34 Monsen wrote:On May 04 2013 10:18 beef42 wrote:I am as usual delighted to read another piece on our neighbors to the south. I wish you a good election when the time comes. + Show Spoiler +that feel when Denmark will never be part of the Bundesrepublik ;_; Is there actually a pro "Join ze germanz" sentiment among some danes? This is the first time I see someone express sth. like this. Maybe I misunderstood your spoiler? I always thought you were closer to the (other) scandinavians. I think it is mostly just me. I am a bit of a federalist - if I can't have a European superstate, (with things as they are... you know) I would settle for joining Germany. I think old style borders and territory are quickly becoming obsolete towards a globalized, multicultural future for everyone. edit: and yeah, it seems to me that the German government runs a tighter ship than my own
Funny you say that. I live in the german part of the Jutland Peninsular and I wouldn't mind if we somehow became a part of Denmark again either 
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Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, eh?
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Incorporation of Denmark is culturally undesirable, but the frontier requires some rectification up there. Up ewig ungedeelt, and all that.
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EPT
