It does not matter whether the CDU is at fault or the SPD, what matters is what the SPD basis believes to be true when they vote for or against another grand coalition.

Which is why I asked WHY the spd basis believes it to be true, not whether it is true or not.

Nyxisto

Germany6287 Posts

October 14 2013 19:42 GMT

#822

On October 15 2013 04:28 JustPassingBy wrote:

Show nested quote +

Which is why I asked WHY the spd basis believes it to be true, not whether it is true or not.

The SPD basis believes it because they lost so many voters after the last Grand-Coalition in 2005. And they're arguing that in public opinion, all positive things from said government were attributed towards the CDU while the SPD took all the blame for the bad decisions.

JustPassingBy

10776 Posts

October 14 2013 20:20 GMT

#823

On October 15 2013 04:42 Nyxisto wrote:

Show nested quote +

Thanks for the answer.

Well, they are certainly right about that. They did lose many voters and that can only be the case if the positive things are attributed towards the CDU and not them. But I still don't understand why the general consensus amongst the SPD people is to decline another grand coalition.
Obviously the grand coalition is a constant battle for the public opinion, which the SPD clearly lost last time. Not only did the SPD not do any self-reflection (at least none which was visible to me in the media), with this attitude they are entering the battle with a disadvantage should it come to another grand coalition.

Maybe we should just vote again, until either CDU/CSU or SPD/Die Grünen have an absolute majority. It's like the German version of a governmental shutdown, because the politicians act like spoiled brats.

Skilledblob

Germany3392 Posts

October 14 2013 21:53 GMT

#824

it would actually be the best if the CDU got an absolute majority, because this way there would be no scapegoats from other parties Merkel could throw away to save herself. but most likely the idiots at the SPD top are so blinded by their greed and lust for power that they dont think further then the next paycheck

Restrider

Germany129 Posts

October 15 2013 07:42 GMT

#825

On October 15 2013 06:53 Skilledblob wrote:
it would actually be the best if the CDU got an absolute majority, because this way there would be no scapegoats from other parties Merkel could throw away to save herself. but most likely the idiots at the SPD top are so blinded by their greed and lust for power that they dont think further then the next paycheck

This is correct.
But in order to put more pressure on Merkel, they decided to let the SPD basis decide whether they want a new grand coalition or not.
And as I stated earlier, those are more left than the elite, still remember the last grand coalition and they do not care for administrative positions that much.
This decision could backfire very qickly for the SPD elites...

zatic

Zurich15366 Posts

December 18 2013 09:20 GMT

#826

Update: Germany has a government!

Yesterday the Bundestag finally elected Angela Merkel as the new German Chancellor.

This past weekend the SPD internal vote resulted in a Yes to the grand coalition contract between SPD and CDU/CSU after almost three months of coalition talks.

Shortly after the SPD vote was announced, the personnel of the future cabinet was leaked one after another. Here is the future government (order by importance, my interpretation):

Angela Merkel (CDU) : Chancellor
Sigmal Gabriel (SPD) : Vice-Chancellor, Minister for Economics and Energy
Frank-Walter Steinmeier (SPD) : Minister for Foreign Affairs
Wolfgang Schäuble (CDU) : Ministry of Finance
Thomas de Maizière (CDU) : Minister of the Interior
Ursula von der Leyen (CDU) : Minister of Defense
Andrea Nahles (SPD) : Minister of Labor and Social Affairs
Heiko Maas (SPD) : Minister of Justice
Manuela Schwesig (CDU) : Minister of Family Affairs, Seniors, Youth
Hermann Gröhe (CDU) : Minister of Health
Johanna Wanka (CDU) : Minister for Education
Hans-Peter Friedrich (CSU) : Minister of Food and Agriculture
Alexander Dobrindt (CSU) : Minister of Transport and Digital Infrastructure
Barbara Hendricks (SPD) : Minister for Environment
Gerd Müller (CSU) : Minister for Foreign Aid

One can read three important facts from how the three coalition parties make up the cabinet:

1. Angela Merkel retains her dominant position. She keeps her most trusted loyalists (Schäuble, de Maizière, von der Leyen) close and in important positions. Schäuble staying in the Treasury means she will have control over any spending the SPD plans in their social ministries. Von der Leyen made her ambitions for future chancellor candidacy clear with a spectacular move to the Ministry of Defense. And de Maizière does not get degraded at all for his almost complete failure in Defense last year but simply switches back into Interior, a position he held before.

2. On the other hand it is astounding to see how many key offices Merkel granted to the SPD. Considering the strong position Merkel came into the coalition talks from, the SPD basically got everything they could have wished for, and some. Particularly control over Economics, Labor, Energy, and Justice puts the SPD in a potentially powerful position to initiate left-leaning reform.
It will be interesting to see if this means the final social-democratization of Merkel, or if she will - with help from her power over the treasury - endlessly delay SPD initiatives and reform, much like she has in previous coalitions with both the SPD and FDP.

3. Merkel duped the CSU in humiliating fashion. The CSU is the smaller, Bavarian-only sister party of the CDU. Looking at the cabinet they basically got the scraps after CDU and SPD had their pick. Transport, with the newly added digital infrastructure function might be the only ministry of some significance they will own. Friedrich, the current Minister of the Interior, gets massively downgraded to Agriculture, and to add insult to injury, that Ministry gets stripped off the consumer protection function, which moves to now SPD-owned Justice. Foreign Aid is basically a joke ministry.

In terms of foreign policy in general and European policy specifically, we can not expect anything but the status quo from Merkel. Steinmeier in Foreign Affairs means virtually nothing, as Merkel has stripped that Ministry of most of its power already. Important foreign politics are done by the Chancellors Office now.

For the rest of their program, a 200 page coalition contract gives some idea of where the new government intends to go. However, looking at the last Union-FDP coalition, that contract doesn't really mean anything. If Merkel changes her mind she won't care what was agreed on last weekend, and suffocate her partners in government in delays and non-commitment.

I guess time will tell - for now we will continue to have an administration free of ideology which will govern short-term and cautious, without taking any political risks.