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On August 18 2013 06:42 dismiss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 05:09 Dazed_Spy wrote:Are the FDP still polling terribly in Germany?  The FDP pulling bad results is just about the best thing that could happen, they have a terrible agenda regarding pretty much every important subject. If you're interested in recent survey results here's a pretty comprehensive list http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm They're the only party I find even remotely tolerable, though far too interventionist and illiberal for my tastes. Still, its Europe, you cant shoot for the moon.
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well from our POV, america is far too right 
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On August 18 2013 07:14 Dazed_Spy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 06:42 dismiss wrote:On August 18 2013 05:09 Dazed_Spy wrote:Are the FDP still polling terribly in Germany? The FDP pulling bad results is just about the best thing that could happen, they have a terrible agenda regarding pretty much every important subject. If you're interested in recent survey results here's a pretty comprehensive list http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm They're the only party I find even remotely tolerable, though far too interventionist and illiberal for my tastes. Still, its Europe, you cant shoot for the moon.
You might want to look more into the Green party, they're basically the same thing, except with fewer tax breaks for lawyers, dentists, and a little more crazy as well as an emphasis on environmental protection.
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On August 18 2013 07:55 dismiss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 07:14 Dazed_Spy wrote:On August 18 2013 06:42 dismiss wrote:On August 18 2013 05:09 Dazed_Spy wrote:Are the FDP still polling terribly in Germany? The FDP pulling bad results is just about the best thing that could happen, they have a terrible agenda regarding pretty much every important subject. If you're interested in recent survey results here's a pretty comprehensive list http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm They're the only party I find even remotely tolerable, though far too interventionist and illiberal for my tastes. Still, its Europe, you cant shoot for the moon. You might want to look more into the Green party, they're basically the same thing, except with fewer tax breaks for lawyers, dentists, and a little more crazy as well as an emphasis on environmental protection.
"a little more crazy" is quite an understatement. their focus on environmental protection makes them blind for any other matter at hand. if it was for them, we should increase the price for energy, so we would be more environmentally aware. Let alone their crazy plans for the education system which got shot down by their own voters (Hamburg)!
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On August 18 2013 08:04 Hryul wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 07:55 dismiss wrote:On August 18 2013 07:14 Dazed_Spy wrote:On August 18 2013 06:42 dismiss wrote:On August 18 2013 05:09 Dazed_Spy wrote:Are the FDP still polling terribly in Germany? The FDP pulling bad results is just about the best thing that could happen, they have a terrible agenda regarding pretty much every important subject. If you're interested in recent survey results here's a pretty comprehensive list http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm They're the only party I find even remotely tolerable, though far too interventionist and illiberal for my tastes. Still, its Europe, you cant shoot for the moon. You might want to look more into the Green party, they're basically the same thing, except with fewer tax breaks for lawyers, dentists, and a little more crazy as well as an emphasis on environmental protection. "a little more crazy" is quite an understatement. their focus on environmental protection makes them blind for any other matter at hand. if it was for them, we should increase the price for energy, so we would be more environmentally aware. Let alone their crazy plans for the education system which got shot down by their own voters (Hamburg)!
I think he meant that the "a little more crazy" was still one of the exceptions that you do not find in the greens but rather in the FDP.
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Does anyone know if there is any sources of in-depth information regarding this election in english? Since Germany is once again the boss of Europe it has become very interesting what's going on down there.
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On August 18 2013 08:04 Hryul wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 07:55 dismiss wrote:On August 18 2013 07:14 Dazed_Spy wrote:On August 18 2013 06:42 dismiss wrote:On August 18 2013 05:09 Dazed_Spy wrote:Are the FDP still polling terribly in Germany? The FDP pulling bad results is just about the best thing that could happen, they have a terrible agenda regarding pretty much every important subject. If you're interested in recent survey results here's a pretty comprehensive list http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm They're the only party I find even remotely tolerable, though far too interventionist and illiberal for my tastes. Still, its Europe, you cant shoot for the moon. You might want to look more into the Green party, they're basically the same thing, except with fewer tax breaks for lawyers, dentists, and a little more crazy as well as an emphasis on environmental protection. "a little more crazy" is quite an understatement. their focus on environmental protection makes them blind for any other matter at hand. if it was for them, we should increase the price for energy, so we would be more environmentally aware. Let alone their crazy plans for the education system which got shot down by their own voters (Hamburg)!
You can't really blame the federal green party for what one of their regional branches is doing though. While the Greens on the federal level have some quirks as well ( if I recall correctly they almost decided on a €5 billion educational program at their federal convention in 2009 (or 2010, I forgot) with the brilliant idea of financing it by just printing the necessary money). In case they'll actually be part of the next government, which is highly unlikely anyway, their "crazy" ideas be kept in check by their coalition partner anyway.
On August 18 2013 08:15 Prog455 wrote:
Does anyone know if there is any sources of in-depth information regarding this election in english? Since Germany is once again the boss of Europe it has become very interesting what's going on down there.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/ is probably going to be your best bet, most big German newspapers should have an English online presence as well. Try googling Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, Die Zeit, Frankfurter Rundschau and Tagesanzeiger.
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On August 18 2013 08:20 dismiss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 08:04 Hryul wrote:On August 18 2013 07:55 dismiss wrote:On August 18 2013 07:14 Dazed_Spy wrote:On August 18 2013 06:42 dismiss wrote:On August 18 2013 05:09 Dazed_Spy wrote:Are the FDP still polling terribly in Germany? The FDP pulling bad results is just about the best thing that could happen, they have a terrible agenda regarding pretty much every important subject. If you're interested in recent survey results here's a pretty comprehensive list http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm They're the only party I find even remotely tolerable, though far too interventionist and illiberal for my tastes. Still, its Europe, you cant shoot for the moon. You might want to look more into the Green party, they're basically the same thing, except with fewer tax breaks for lawyers, dentists, and a little more crazy as well as an emphasis on environmental protection. "a little more crazy" is quite an understatement. their focus on environmental protection makes them blind for any other matter at hand. if it was for them, we should increase the price for energy, so we would be more environmentally aware. Let alone their crazy plans for the education system which got shot down by their own voters (Hamburg)! You can't really blame the federal green party for what one of their regional branches is doing though. While the Greens on the federal level have some quirks as well ( if I recall correctly they almost decided on a €5 billion educational program at their federal convention in 2009 (or 2010, I forgot) with the brilliant idea of financing it by just printing the necessary money). In case they'll actually be part of the next government, which is highly unlikely anyway, their "crazy" ideas be kept in check by their coalition partner anyway.
it's not as unlikely as you think. the FDP is basically nonexistant, the SPD is thanks to Steinbrück basically chanceless and noone wants to coaliate with the Die Linken party. CDU/Die Grünen is a possible combination. that or the big coalition CDU/SPD.
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On August 18 2013 08:24 Tanzklaue wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 08:20 dismiss wrote:On August 18 2013 08:04 Hryul wrote:On August 18 2013 07:55 dismiss wrote:On August 18 2013 07:14 Dazed_Spy wrote:On August 18 2013 06:42 dismiss wrote:On August 18 2013 05:09 Dazed_Spy wrote:Are the FDP still polling terribly in Germany? The FDP pulling bad results is just about the best thing that could happen, they have a terrible agenda regarding pretty much every important subject. If you're interested in recent survey results here's a pretty comprehensive list http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm They're the only party I find even remotely tolerable, though far too interventionist and illiberal for my tastes. Still, its Europe, you cant shoot for the moon. You might want to look more into the Green party, they're basically the same thing, except with fewer tax breaks for lawyers, dentists, and a little more crazy as well as an emphasis on environmental protection. "a little more crazy" is quite an understatement. their focus on environmental protection makes them blind for any other matter at hand. if it was for them, we should increase the price for energy, so we would be more environmentally aware. Let alone their crazy plans for the education system which got shot down by their own voters (Hamburg)! You can't really blame the federal green party for what one of their regional branches is doing though. While the Greens on the federal level have some quirks as well ( if I recall correctly they almost decided on a €5 billion educational program at their federal convention in 2009 (or 2010, I forgot) with the brilliant idea of financing it by just printing the necessary money). In case they'll actually be part of the next government, which is highly unlikely anyway, their "crazy" ideas be kept in check by their coalition partner anyway. it's not as unlikely as you think. the FDP is basically nonexistant, the SPD is thanks to Steinbrück basically chanceless and noone wants to coaliate with the Die Linken party. CDU/Die Grünen is a possible combination. that or the big coalition CDU/SPD.
CDU/Grüne sounds nice on paper but there is no way the CSU or the right wing of the CDU would ever go through with it.
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On August 18 2013 07:55 dismiss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 07:14 Dazed_Spy wrote:On August 18 2013 06:42 dismiss wrote:On August 18 2013 05:09 Dazed_Spy wrote:Are the FDP still polling terribly in Germany? The FDP pulling bad results is just about the best thing that could happen, they have a terrible agenda regarding pretty much every important subject. If you're interested in recent survey results here's a pretty comprehensive list http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm They're the only party I find even remotely tolerable, though far too interventionist and illiberal for my tastes. Still, its Europe, you cant shoot for the moon. You might want to look more into the Green party, they're basically the same thing, except with fewer tax breaks for lawyers, dentists, and a little more crazy as well as an emphasis on environmental protection.
the green party is actually the worst when it comes to being illiberal.
They are against buying any luxury with money. They want to remove first class in transportation, they would tax "high" income much more, they want to introduce days where you cant eat meat...im sure i forgot many things.
Basically, they have a certain ideology and want to force it upon everyone.
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On August 18 2013 08:38 LaNague wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 07:55 dismiss wrote:On August 18 2013 07:14 Dazed_Spy wrote:On August 18 2013 06:42 dismiss wrote:On August 18 2013 05:09 Dazed_Spy wrote:Are the FDP still polling terribly in Germany? The FDP pulling bad results is just about the best thing that could happen, they have a terrible agenda regarding pretty much every important subject. If you're interested in recent survey results here's a pretty comprehensive list http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm They're the only party I find even remotely tolerable, though far too interventionist and illiberal for my tastes. Still, its Europe, you cant shoot for the moon. You might want to look more into the Green party, they're basically the same thing, except with fewer tax breaks for lawyers, dentists, and a little more crazy as well as an emphasis on environmental protection. the green party is actually the worst when it comes to being illiberal. They are against buying any luxury with money. They want to remove first class in transportation, they would tax "high" income much more, they want to introduce days where you cant eat meat...im sure i forgot many things. Basically, they have a certain ideology and want to force it upon everyone.
Well the "can't eat meat day" is more than a little exaggeration: it would only affect state owned/public cafeterias.
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On August 18 2013 08:38 LaNague wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 07:55 dismiss wrote:On August 18 2013 07:14 Dazed_Spy wrote:On August 18 2013 06:42 dismiss wrote:On August 18 2013 05:09 Dazed_Spy wrote:Are the FDP still polling terribly in Germany? The FDP pulling bad results is just about the best thing that could happen, they have a terrible agenda regarding pretty much every important subject. If you're interested in recent survey results here's a pretty comprehensive list http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm They're the only party I find even remotely tolerable, though far too interventionist and illiberal for my tastes. Still, its Europe, you cant shoot for the moon. You might want to look more into the Green party, they're basically the same thing, except with fewer tax breaks for lawyers, dentists, and a little more crazy as well as an emphasis on environmental protection. the green party is actually the worst when it comes to being illiberal. They are against buying any luxury with money. They want to remove first class in transportation, they would tax "high" income much more, they want to introduce days where you cant eat meat...im sure i forgot many things. Basically, they have a certain ideology and want to force it upon everyone.
True, this is why I will never ever vote for them and talk everyone who wants to do so out of it.
Seriously, they want to introduce a speed-limit of 130Km/h on the whole Autobahn. To me this is the perfect example to show how they are a party of modern Socialists who want to force people to get along with their views.
In addition to that, they have blatantly stupid views on sexual equality. They are taking that topic so unscientific and ignore logic while they just appeal to people's feelings and try to make the current situation much worse than it is. I could vomit every time Claudia Roth gets invited to a talkshow that deals with sexual equality.
At the moment I don't really like any party in particular. However, I like FDP the most because they are trying to introduce as few regulations as possible.
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I would support The Left, but from what I saw, they seem to be a bunch of closeted Marxist-Leninists who are nostalgic for the DDR. Bleh...I am pretty disappointed in Germany's left-wing parties.
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On August 18 2013 09:03 imperator-xy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 08:38 LaNague wrote:On August 18 2013 07:55 dismiss wrote:On August 18 2013 07:14 Dazed_Spy wrote:On August 18 2013 06:42 dismiss wrote:On August 18 2013 05:09 Dazed_Spy wrote:Are the FDP still polling terribly in Germany? The FDP pulling bad results is just about the best thing that could happen, they have a terrible agenda regarding pretty much every important subject. If you're interested in recent survey results here's a pretty comprehensive list http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm They're the only party I find even remotely tolerable, though far too interventionist and illiberal for my tastes. Still, its Europe, you cant shoot for the moon. You might want to look more into the Green party, they're basically the same thing, except with fewer tax breaks for lawyers, dentists, and a little more crazy as well as an emphasis on environmental protection. the green party is actually the worst when it comes to being illiberal. They are against buying any luxury with money. They want to remove first class in transportation, they would tax "high" income much more, they want to introduce days where you cant eat meat...im sure i forgot many things. Basically, they have a certain ideology and want to force it upon everyone. True, this is why I will never ever vote for them and talk everyone who wants to do so out of it. Seriously, they want to introduce a speed-limit of 130Km/h on the whole Autobahn. To me this is the perfect example to show how they are a party of modern Socialists who want to force people to get along with their views. In addition to that, they have blatantly stupid views on sexual equality. They are taking that topic so unscientific and ignore logic while they just appeal to people's feelings and try to make the current situation much worse than it is. I could vomit every time Claudia Roth gets invited to a talkshow that deals with sexual equality. At the moment I don't really like any party in particular. However, I like FDP the most because they are trying to introduce as few regulations as possible.
How is enforcing a lower speed limit, which by the way most other countries have done a long time ago(drastically improving road security i.e. in the UK; as well as fuel economy) socialist? I also fail to see what's wrong with cafeterias offering vegetarian meals on a mandatory basis. Forcing them to not serve meat at all is taking it too far, I agree, but in principle I think it's quite a good idea. I'll give you that Claudia Roth is unbearable, though you'll find people as bad as her in every party.
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On August 18 2013 09:18 dismiss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 09:03 imperator-xy wrote:On August 18 2013 08:38 LaNague wrote:On August 18 2013 07:55 dismiss wrote:On August 18 2013 07:14 Dazed_Spy wrote:On August 18 2013 06:42 dismiss wrote:On August 18 2013 05:09 Dazed_Spy wrote:Are the FDP still polling terribly in Germany? The FDP pulling bad results is just about the best thing that could happen, they have a terrible agenda regarding pretty much every important subject. If you're interested in recent survey results here's a pretty comprehensive list http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm They're the only party I find even remotely tolerable, though far too interventionist and illiberal for my tastes. Still, its Europe, you cant shoot for the moon. You might want to look more into the Green party, they're basically the same thing, except with fewer tax breaks for lawyers, dentists, and a little more crazy as well as an emphasis on environmental protection. the green party is actually the worst when it comes to being illiberal. They are against buying any luxury with money. They want to remove first class in transportation, they would tax "high" income much more, they want to introduce days where you cant eat meat...im sure i forgot many things. Basically, they have a certain ideology and want to force it upon everyone. True, this is why I will never ever vote for them and talk everyone who wants to do so out of it. Seriously, they want to introduce a speed-limit of 130Km/h on the whole Autobahn. To me this is the perfect example to show how they are a party of modern Socialists who want to force people to get along with their views. In addition to that, they have blatantly stupid views on sexual equality. They are taking that topic so unscientific and ignore logic while they just appeal to people's feelings and try to make the current situation much worse than it is. I could vomit every time Claudia Roth gets invited to a talkshow that deals with sexual equality. At the moment I don't really like any party in particular. However, I like FDP the most because they are trying to introduce as few regulations as possible. How is enforcing a lower speed limit, which by the way most other countries have done a long time ago(drastically improving road security i.e. in the UK; as well as fuel economy) socialist? I also fail to see what's wrong with cafeterias offering vegetarian meals on a mandatory basis. Forcing them to not serve meat at all is taking it too far, I agree, but in principle I think it's quite a good idea. I'll give you that Claudia Roth is unbearable, though you'll find people as bad as her in every party.
i used it as an example to show how they are.
They as a government can only make it illegal to serve meat in publically owned cafeterias, but if they could, they would make it illegal for everyone.
Also btw, traffic produces like what...6% of germanies CO2 output? A speedlimit would reduce that by like 0.1%.
Higher safety is not proven.
It would make much more sense to finally crack down on the private wood burning fire places, which cause heavy pollution without regulation.
And The Left....they are very amateurish, especially on a not-federal level.
Same with the pirate party, who as a new party had a lot of problems of being invaded by people that want to press their own ideology.
For example in my city they are mostly made up of jobless people who want a bunch of free stuff, which has nothing to do with what the pirate party really stands for.
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Yes, I am sure they'd turn Germany into a country where you're only allowed to eat salad and ride your bike to work, you should try to be less ridiculous. :>
As for road safety, the WHO disagrees with you. http://www.who.int/violence_injury_prevention/publications/road_traffic/world_report/en/index.html
I am too lazy to do any research regarding the actual percentages of CO2 emissions from cars right now, but given the misinformation in the rest of your post, your numbers there probably aren't correct either.
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On August 18 2013 08:54 Doppelganger wrote:
Well the "can't eat meat day" is more than a little exaggeration: it would only affect state owned/public cafeterias.
It's only the first step. You know, once a new law is installed, it will automaticly be made more and more restrictive over the time.
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On August 18 2013 09:18 dismiss wrote:
How is enforcing a lower speed limit, which by the way most other countries have done a long time ago(drastically improving road security i.e. in the UK; as well as fuel economy) socialist?
Other countries introducing something isn't a real argument. There are countries that introduced Sharia law, still we won't think about introducing it in 1.000 years.
About security:
"With these insane speeds, isn't the Autobahn incredibly dangerous? Oddly enough no; in fact the Autobahn is one the safest highways in the world. In 2011 there were a total of 453 fatal accidents on the Autobahn, which is 0.56 per 100,000 speed addicted residents. Compare that to the US interstate's 1.61 per 100,000 - three times as many." (from zatic's blog about the Autobahn)
Fuel economy:
If you want to save fuel, you are free to drive 100-120Km/h only.
However, this should be up to every driver himself. We live in a free society, so people shouldn't be forced neglect things that don't harm anyone at all, like driving as fast as they want as long as the conditions are fine, or like eating meat whenever you want.
It would hurt my heart if driving stopped being fun at some point in the future. I don't want to fall asleep when I have to drive long distances.
People work hard to buy expensive cars, and when driving long distances they want to feel that the car is worth the price. It's kind of a reward for your hard work over the years.
You could drive 130Km/h safely with every second hand Golf for ~2.000€.
Maybe that is hard to understand for foreigners. This blog by zatic explains it very well I think:
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=352779
Cafeterias offering vegetarian meals on a mandatory basis of course is a good thing, so that everyone is free to eat whatever he wants.
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On August 18 2013 09:48 imperator-xy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 09:18 dismiss wrote:
How is enforcing a lower speed limit, which by the way most other countries have done a long time ago(drastically improving road security i.e. in the UK; as well as fuel economy) socialist? Other countries introducing something isn't a real argument. There are countries that introduced Sharia law, still we won't think about introducing it in 1.000 years. About security: "With these insane speeds, isn't the Autobahn incredibly dangerous? Oddly enough no; in fact the Autobahn is one the safest highways in the world. In 2011 there were a total of 453 fatal accidents on the Autobahn, which is 0.56 per 100,000 speed addicted residents. Compare that to the US interstate's 1.61 per 100,000 - three times as many." (from zatic's blog about the Autobahn)
You're implying that speed is the only cause for accidents happening on highways. I'm no expert on the field but I'm sure that things like Germany's much harsher regulations regarding car maintenance as well as the condition of the roads and general difference in driving style do play a part as well.
Regarding the maximum speed of cars, driving faster doesn't not harm anyone. The higher output of C02 is actually going to fuel global warming, thus harming all of us. Now I can understand that if you're going to buy an expensive car you'll expect it to be nicer than a cheap one, but there's really more to that than ithe car's top speed, isn't there? 
Now if you basically want to turn your local highway into a race track, you'll most certainly endanger other people, if you absolutely need to drive insanely fast in your car, you could and should keep that to track days and similar things.
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On August 18 2013 09:13 Shiragaku wrote:
I would support The Left, but from what I saw, they seem to be a bunch of closeted Marxist-Leninists who are nostalgic for the DDR. Bleh...I am pretty disappointed in Germany's left-wing parties.
It really depends on your viewpoint. The Left has quite a spectrum of voters and members.
If you take the conservative viewpoint (some say propaganda) then sure, the Left is a bunch of old neo-Marxists wishing back the old days.
If you ask members of the party itself, then they will tell you that their communist wing makes up at most 15% of their ranks and they are all not in leading positions and that none of them want the old system back but that they seek a new democratic socialism instead.
Since the wall came down I have heard these claims from conservative commentators: "These guys are mostly nostalgic Stalinist who will die out in a few years anyway, do not pay any attention to them."
Well it's 25 years later and this group of voters is still here, in fact, the Left is pretty successful in young age segment making it slowly gaining ground actually.
There is one thing people from countries with two party systems have to understand:
Your parties actually get to implement the policies they set in their programs once they win the election, our don't!
So before an election, what your parties say they would like to do is actually what will be done afterwards!
Here, a 'party program' is pretty much a theoretical exercise. What would you do if you could rule all alone? (In the history of the Federal Republic there has never been a non-collision government.)
What happens once the votes are casted is that they negotiate with their coalition partners. Compromises are made and demands are watered down in the name of being part of the government at all.
So in reality every party program here is much more outlandish in its demands (because they will most likely never be implemented).
But party programs are the perfect area of attack for the opposition.
"Look at these weirdos, if they had their way they would actually do this or that. The horror!"
And it works every time, just look at the infighting German posters in this thread:
'They would force vegetarianism down our throat.', 'They would implement socialism.', 'They would abolish unions.'
All outlandish demands, but sadly taken at face value for most voters.
You asked why Merkel has such a high standing in the German population. The answer IMHO comes down to this trait, ridiculing and mobilizing against certain party demands is so much easier, than standing for something.
The status quo looks better when contrasted with outlandish visions.
Black Gun explained it earlier:
On August 18 2013 04:31 Black Gun wrote:
The general campaign strategy of Merkel is called "asymmetric demobilization" and has already been very successful in her 2009 campaign. She avoids positioning herself on almost any controversial topic and thus robs the political opposition of any chances to attack her and to mobilize their own voters. Because she has done nothing fundamentally wrong and does not stand for anything that infuriates the traditional voters of opposing political parties, the opposition cannot gain momentum for their campaign. To sum it up, she is not governing, she is administrating the status quo.
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EPT
