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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On April 03 2013 22:30 Hopeless1der wrote: Yes, I was just slightly suprised to see you defend yourself in that matter...I always look scummy, you're the one who's been defending me on that concept. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
Okay, back to why risk.nuke is scum: Let me try again and actually explain why this shows a scum mentality. On April 02 2013 08:44 risk.nuke wrote: I would argue that putting your vote on a townie is greatly suboptimal. 1) Soft-claim town. He didn't say "I'M TOWN", he said voting a townie is bad. 2) Now, I'm making some pretty blanket statements here, but I would expect: - Scum want to kill townies. - Townies want to kill scum. - Townies do not want to kill townies. The assumption of this post is that CC is town and should not want other townies to die. <---This is what I am calling as the slip, risk knows CC is town. + Show Spoiler + [CONFIRMATION BIAS] On April 02 2013 08:48 risk.nuke wrote: You want me to spoil the ending and hand you the key to the test? He has the answer key *hint hint* [/CONFIRMATION BIAS] risk.nuke is the original proponent of the Kenpachi rule in this game. He did this for no other reason than an errant observation. No alignment indicative thoughts on it. VE made his point about it already: + Show Spoiler + On April 02 2013 10:15 VisceraEyes wrote: I had a similar thought regarding risk.nuke. Why bring up the Kenpachi Rule at all if he had no intention of following it? My thoughts brought me to "He's scummy". He's either: 1) Scum trying to incriminate RoL innocuously by "joking" about Kenpachi Rule. 2) Town trying to trap someone into agreeing with his assessment and voting RoL. I ruled out 2 by asking him if he thought RoL was scum because of it, and he doesn't, which leaves 1). ##Vote: risk.nuke Conversely I'm very null on RoL. Abhorring my play-style is very NOT alignment indicative for that guy. Something I notice reading risk's filter is he keeps trying to defend himself regarding his handling of the Kenpachi Rule, saying that people have different opinions and that he doesn't use methods like that to find scum. However, when initially called out by VE, he insists that he was scumhunting Its not so much a backpedal as it is him trying to "say the right things" to me. Over the course of an hour, risk twice tells VE/RoL to stop tunneling On April 02 2013 09:45 risk.nuke wrote: VE, RoL. If you're going to tunnel-bitch-argue in the thread atleast argue about something remotely relevant. On April 02 2013 10:46 risk.nuke wrote: Will you please god damn stop tunneling? The thread have talked about it, I assume you read the thread? But does nothing to steer the direction himself, just has a voice to tell them to stop whatever it is that they are doing (later on this was ganging up on him). risk.nuke moves on to accuse me of not really being interested in finding scum, while at the same time calling EVERY NON-POSTING PERSON SCUMMY. + Show Spoiler + On April 02 2013 11:07 risk.nuke wrote: Viscera. Tunneling isn't about time, it's about not having an open mind. You lashed out at me instantly and agressively for the smallest thing so clearly you're looking at me as if I am scum and are trying to find things things that are scummy about me to confirm that belief. Aka tunneling. You want REAL scummy shit. Everyone that's not posting are scummier then those who are posting. For 2, I personally think Hopeless1der look very uninterested in finding scum. He goes to bed shortly after this, and upon waking up promises his "case" on On April 02 2013 20:58 risk.nuke wrote: Hopeless1der it started with this post. He's pretty much around but doesn't do anything or comments on anything of worth. His three posts tells us he was around and this is what he choose to comment on? Compare to other filters, dessert fruity His other two posts one is a sheep-post where he talks briefly about hammers, which is fine but it doesn't really add anything. The second and last one is some cheap shots which mostly just serve to tell us he's not reading the thread and if he is he's just skimming through it without caring when we're 1½ pages. Really, it started with my second post in the game? Bro, I had 3 posts at the time of this "case". Read my first 3 posts of both of those filters and compare them to my first 3 posts here. If you can honestly tell me I look 100% scummier in this game than those 2, then fuck it, hammer me right goddamn now. On April 03 2013 14:27 risk.nuke wrote: We're not lynching anyone other then hopeless. RoL you got to be joking if you think that we're going to lynch cheesecake first. While I agree with your posts and I had some thoughts in simmilar direction last night. It's still a weaker case then on hopeless. I don't like how you haven't talked about me since your vote and I would like you to comment further on me and hopeless. Hopeless is obvious scum and has pretty much given up by now. This is not how he plays as town. And Ghor's post are not hard to read. If you disregard the fact that he speaks in third person and often don't use capital letters they're actually very simple to read and even efficiently phrased. Sylencia. Who do you want to kill? I want to know how I play as town, risk. Please show me. risk.nuke's scumread on me is very weak imo, and he cites my meta as his main argument without demonstrating how I've deviated from my town meta or adhered to my scum meta. He's just made the statement that I'm not playing my town game and that I'm obvious scum. This is an incredibly lazy stance to take, and I want to see it substantiated before I die if possible. Alternatively, I'd like to see risk.nuke swing. | ||
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AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
On April 03 2013 22:15 Hopeless1der wrote: Hes a trolly jerkface who insulted my literacy skills. Also, relatively insistent that risk.nuke is scum, but wont hammer in order to find the "other scum". Upon finding said scum (sylencia), doesn't want to hammer risk.nuke anymore. Granted, I'm sailing the same boat but whatever.. That's strange... while that is where in your filter you first started mentioning Ghor... I did indeed find the argument over the scum slip interesting. In this post On April 03 2013 01:59 Hopeless1der wrote: it was what initially put me onto you as scum, so thank you for the compliment. You indicate that it was him not agreeing with your assessment of the scumslip. Now that is important to me in assessing the genuine nature of your scum hunting. it strike me that if you are reacting emotively to "a trolly jerkface who insulted my literacy skills" and when you find out that what you claimed was what originally put you onto him then at best you are seriously tunnel visioned... Wine that is easier to drink is that, you are scum, and not interested in whether or not your read started from false premise. (the false premise is Ghor not liking your scum slip indicated to you, he was scum) Its true that is not strong indicator, its true if I had better candidate id vote lynch them. Its not the only thing I said in that post by rather long shot. As you have noted its not possible that all the people who don't think that was scum slip are scum, there are just too many of us. So yes I regard that you do not seem to go back and actually critically evaluate your reads as scum indicative. it simply doesn't feel like genuine searching for the truth, just a glove that does or does not fit. BTW. I got a bad feeling the trolly jerk face probably fell off his chair when he read your last post. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On April 03 2013 22:34 Lazermonkey wrote: Yes, I was just slightly suprised to see you defend yourself in that matter... Wouldn't be the first time. (Looney Lynching) | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On April 03 2013 22:36 AxleGreaser wrote: That's strange... while that is where in your filter you first started mentioning Ghor... I did indeed find the argument over the scum slip interesting. In this post You indicate that it was him not agreeing with your assessment of the scumslip. Now that is important to me in assessing the genuine nature of your scum hunting. it strike me that if you are reacting emotively to "a trolly jerkface who insulted my literacy skills" and when you find out that what you claimed was what originally put you onto him then at best you are seriously tunnel visioned... Wine that is easier to drink is that, you are scum, and not interested in whether or not your read started from false premise. (the false premise is Ghor not liking your scum slip indicated to you, he was scum) Its true that is not strong indicator, its true if I had better candidate id vote lynch them. Its not the only thing I said in that post by rather long shot. As you have noted its not possible that all the people who don't think that was scum slip are scum, there are just too many of us. So yes I regard that you do not seem to go back and actually critically evaluate your reads as scum indicative. it simply doesn't feel like genuine searching for the truth, just a glove that does or does not fit. BTW. I got a bad feeling the trolly jerk face probably fell off his chair when he read your last post. He insulted my literacy skills regarding the scumslip: + Show Spoiler + On April 02 2013 11:13 Ghor wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 02 2013 10:49 Hopeless1der wrote: Doesn't seem all that legit to me. Also, scumslip in that he knows CC is town. ghor think contradiction also very strong point.but ghor want long day. risk ok, risk on chopping block but no axe soon, axe later. wait for other information, milk day, find other scum. but that no scumslip, that was cc voting risk and risk saying he town and vote bad, you read thread pls hopeless.no offense. For low probability that risk do stupid mistake as town, 3 vote on risk mean scum can kill risk together. if risk town he can play harder than everyone else now and know if he does not, he dead. but need other opinion from not posting people first. no go quick with axe. Ploha. Oh wait he said "No offense". Clearly he has no malicious intent. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On April 03 2013 22:20 Sylencia wrote: Lolwtf.The read disappeared when CC came back? I told you my point on him was that he left a vote and disappeared, he's come back, he's made points and he's not that high on my radar at the moment. To your other questions, scum don't necessarily apply bad logic, they would more likely use actions others have done to justify something they didn't intend to do, run with it and hope it convinces enough people. So it's not really logic that I'm talking about there, just twisting other's actions would probably make for a better course of action. The problem I'd see with scum wanting to use logic is that it's easily backtracked and exposed, and that's why I don't see it being used as much of a point of attack as scum. So you vote CC and say "Not sure if trolling around is his meta but seems pretty scum from here." because of how careless he throwes around his vote (which I think is a shit reasoning but that is quite irrelevant) but when he just unvotes, you just say "yhea, he is town NP". That makes 0 sense. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Sylencia
Australia1057 Posts
On April 03 2013 22:53 Lazermonkey wrote: Lolwtf. So you vote CC and say "Not sure if trolling around is his meta but seems pretty scum from here." because of how careless he throwes around his vote (which I think is a shit reasoning but that is quite irrelevant) but when he just unvotes, you just say "yhea, he is town NP". That makes 0 sense. Again, did I say "yeah he is town np", concentrating on more prominent targets is not the same as saying someone is town. | ||
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Mr. Cheesecake
United States3756 Posts
On April 03 2013 18:14 Lazermonkey wrote: Hopeless is a decent lynch at most. But while that is the case, my last 2 games I played town with town Hopeless. Both games ended up with hopeless misslynched or vigi killed. Hopeless were making several basic errors in those games as well. These games were: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=373946 (mafia LVIII) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955 (dessert mini) To be fair, I don't see a clear diference between Hopeless play in those games and this game. This obviously doesn't make Hopless town but I really don't see how you are voting him over Sylencia at this point. And reading the thread doesn't exactly help me... Axle: I have no idea why you think hopeless is scum. Risk: You reasons for voting Hopeless is partly meta and partly the fact that he isn't scum hunting. The meta part I disagree with and the scum hunting part is something that Sylencia does far worse at. Also, why do you continously avoid taking a stance on Sylencia despite promising to do so? CC: You are voting hopeless for poor logic but guess what? That isn't alignment indicative. VE and Ghor I think have decent reasons to be on him atm. The reason I didn't say anything about this earlier is because I wanted Hopeless to defend himself rather than me do it for him, but since we are one vote away from killing him atm, my strategy has indeed failed. It's funny you mention my and VE's vote for Hopeless. We are voting him for the exact same reasons. We pushed him at the same time. I have no idea why you like VE's reasons better, because they are the same. You think Hopeless is a 'decent lynch' but hard-defend the guy. In order for him to be a decent lynch you must have some sort of scum read on him --- and then proceed to contradict yourself by calling him town via meta. Then you say it's not even concrete evidence... What the heck is your stance on Hopeless? You seem nervous about him flipping. | ||
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AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
On March 29 2013 03:16 Dandel Ion wrote: I will be very disappointed if you don't lynch the host, though. beggars cant be choosers, no case on the host yet i am afraid, will kenpachi do? A case on Kenpachi + Show Spoiler [Open in the event of Death] + or for personal amusement or to find out why WTF I was doing today... The Kenpachi Incident. Axle: Well Skip, this is fine game of mafia, seen any funny peculiar smelly stuff? Skip: Woof! Axle: so you fetch the sticks I will examine them. Skip: fetch For the sake of those that are not familiar with the standard a pattern, after perhaps little policy warm up, the 'players' start some argy bargy. + Show Spoiler [argy bargy] + Skip: Stick: Cheese votes Ah yes, Cheese did a just for LOLs vote on risk.nuke because he had some small cause, absence from thread having posted ... in the first few mins then dropped out for 90 mins or so. Skip: Stick: active delurker risk responds in 3 mins, just happened to be there? Risk is not (in my view phased at all)... Later Skip: here he says "Cheesecakes early vote on me was a pressure-vote. It was completely fine,..." Having got someone new to talk to Cheescake gets on with the game Skip: Cheese not think hi vote is a big deal... Not to be outdone RoL votes VE (for being bad not for being scum?) (aka BS) Skip: Votes VE for BS VE and Rol swap some BS, and feigned? offence... (dont know how close to the bone this game cuts yet) And then the wheels supposedly fall off. At 9:18 risk posts a reply he probably been writing since about 8:52 Skip: Policy statements by risk Now question you have to ask your self, is if Risk is scum just how pressured does he feel at the moment? Does it make sense that he rashly grabs at just anything because "OMG they're onto me?" 1 minute later. he posts this... Skip: RoL got kenpachied? do you think he was really hoping someone was going to ride, the idea that anyone who votes for anyone who says they are towny is scum? Could it be that he just likes knowing about the rule? besides what actually does he say the Rule is? Skip: The rule "Kenpachi claims vanilla townie and the first person to contest it is mafia." and for me here is one rub, Kenpachi is not in the game...! not only is Kenpachi not in the game, but VE claimed town, not VT? When kenpachi claimed VT, thats a much bigger WTF play that might well garner some scum pressure looking for the first silly play they can find... The two situations to me bear almost no similarity... so far... I hate to go all ACE and 3rd grade reading skills .... exactly how serious, does anyone who can read, think what a such ridiculously BS claim is? BTW (I am dead serious, AFTER the game feel free anyone who knows better to tell me what the F this was all about if it was not just all bullshit.) So VE asks.... Ah I see. So does this make RoL scum to you? Well as the conditions of the trap were not met, its an obvious no? As best I can tell, what risk did wrong, was when Risk made his push on VE he couldn't back it up at all. Thus unlike cheeses vote, which had some basis in fact... Risk was lurking... Risk pushed without a plan what to do if the pushee pushed back... AKA not being serious, not really trying, yeah its bit thin... but are scum actually that willy nilly? However, even though VEs vote puts risk at 2 votes which is more pressure, and we could wait and see what happens, with that much pressure. Why is two votes a good idea? Well when he had one vote, he was basically laughing it off. RoL however jumps on with the 3rd vote... My problem with that move... is there is for me such discontinuity between the pressure of 1 vote and being at L-2 that i have no serious idea, whether Risk subsequent messes as he tries to back out of it badly... remembering the spontaneous 1 min knee jerk way he got into the mess, its not surprising to me there was no exit strategy. because yes even as town after you push one player you may need to then go push another hence an exit strategy if you find your pressure is no longer required as you got he feedback to soothe that itchy feeling. (Syl posting when Syl got home from work) About the towniest thing I saw he did for a while, was, first try then ignore it and go to bed. So yeah, the Kenpachi thing was ill advised, and spontaneous, that therewere in fact logical ways to say no it was just for Lols look it doesn't even fit this situation... but that wasnt said? basically it feels a lot like a face palm play. Shit happens.... However.... did scum try to capitalise on that? Well basically Cheese got stuck under a bigger push... (or just was RL asleep/work?) VE presented this argument + Show Spoiler + On April 02 2013 10:15 VisceraEyes wrote: I had a similar thought regarding risk.nuke. Why bring up the Kenpachi Rule at all if he had no intention of following it? My thoughts brought me to "He's scummy". He's either: 1) Scum trying to incriminate RoL innocuously by "joking" about Kenpachi Rule. 2) Town trying to trap someone into agreeing with his assessment and voting RoL. I ruled out 2 by asking him if he thought RoL was scum because of it, and he doesn't, which leaves 1). ##Vote: risk.nuke Conversely I'm very null on RoL. Abhorring my play-style is very NOT alignment indicative for that guy. Um err what? VE presents two options Risk is "the pope" or "hes scum" proves he not the pope therefore he is scum? Now that exaggerates the problem a lot but NO VE, that is known as false dichotomy? yes VE (may!!!) have ruled out 2, but no that does not only leave option 1... BTW how would presenting case you really support that someone is scum trap someone into agreeing with it at all. I agree its shitty trap that would never have done anything... if some reader knew what the trap was... See here Risk says he thought more people knew about it.... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18179647 People are asking me about the Kenpachi rule, I actually thought more people knew about it. Ghor, It was discussed in a post game I played one or two years ago, I don't think there were statistics but I remember people praised it's accuracy (before it got outed) Do note how the trap worked before it got outed, in other words it was tell that required the trapee to not know what the trap was... if more people knew about it then its no longer applicable? The intriguing thing about this whole business is, what exactly was the Kenpachi trap? Well Kenpachi did something to make himself Lynch bait, and then waited for a fish to bite... people looking for easy BS lynches were more likely to take the bait... aka scum go for the low hanging fruit. Oh ... I see said the blind man... There were indeed some people doing things that were ever so slightly scummy in that they could have been easily mistaken as riding some easy mislynch into the ground. BTW ta. So what does all this mean? Well while there is in fact some scumminess in risk being lackadaisical in how he pushed and made a fluff of it, I think scum sometimes are more lase fair in their approach to the game... although some scum play more serious so WTF knows anyway its at least an oddly weak play by risk... but lynch worthy that early? No just a convenient place to park. So what does all this mean? Well after we Lynch the first two Scum we should then Lynch Kenpachi Intent to Lynch kenpachi! TLDR; Hes been shitting up the thread enormously. Obvious scum is obvious. Well just as soon as I can find him... | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On April 03 2013 07:18 VisceraEyes wrote: Noted. I'm rereading right now. I totally missed that Ghor had made a case on Sylencia. I'm gonna go read that part of the day in context and see what I see. @VE for when you return, what came of this? @axle what in the actual fuck, i dont even? | ||
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Ghor
Russian Federation140 Posts
sylencia not ask scumread CC question.sylencia not ask hopeless question. sylencia fake scumhunt. no hunt for information. he only try discredit ghor cause ghor close scumteam. Look in filter, what ghor say true. sylencia not interested in scumread, only passive say he lynch people. goes for ghor cause ghor look like troll, that initial reason. now only give other reason to stay on easy target. but ghor can stop troll if he want and sylencia very likely not stop tunnel. that cause sylencia scum. | ||
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Ghor
Russian Federation140 Posts
he only try discredit ghor cause ghor close scumteam. | ||
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AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
On April 04 2013 00:21 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Why the hell are you defending Hopeless so hard, Lazer? It's funny you mention my and VE's vote for Hopeless. We are voting him for the exact same reasons. We pushed him at the same time. I have no idea why you like VE's reasons better, because they are the same. You think Hopeless is a 'decent lynch' but hard-defend the guy. In order for him to be a decent lynch you must have some sort of scum read on him --- and then proceed to contradict yourself by calling him town via meta. Then you say it's not even concrete evidence... What the heck is your stance on Hopeless? You seem nervous about him flipping. Lazer Said "Axle: I have no idea why you think hopeless is scum." Sorry earlier I failed to even parse what LazerMonkey meant. I kind of auto assumed he couldn't find any EXTRA reasons I thought he was scummy... Well in my view rather obviously as I put my case AFTER VE and cheese said their bits, but I did not say I disagreed with them, that was an implicit agreement. So basically while I do agree with what had been said, my post added what ever extra I could. BTW. I am getting pretty tired... expect some WTF grammar and stuff. | ||
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Ghor
Russian Federation140 Posts
ebwop: he only try discredit ghor cause ghor trolls. ghor serious mental block now.make double mistake he not understand. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On April 04 2013 00:52 Ghor wrote: Ghor very curious why hopeless never ask scummy sylencia why he want vote him. scummy sylencia only skating by hopeless lynch. and hopeless hardly mention sylencia or comment on what ghor said.look like not exist for each other in thread, maybe only in qt. sylencia not ask scumread CC question.sylencia not ask hopeless question. sylencia fake scumhunt. no hunt for information. he only try discredit ghor cause ghor close scumteam. Look in filter, what ghor say true. sylencia not interested in scumread, only passive say he lynch people. goes for ghor cause ghor look like troll, that initial reason. now only give other reason to stay on easy target. but ghor can stop troll if he want and sylencia very likely not stop tunnel. that cause sylencia scum. Indulge us, please. | ||
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Ghor
Russian Federation140 Posts
writing strange = hard. forget fast ghor will resume: hopeless -> risk, ghor risk -> hopeless sylencia -> hopeless, ghor. risk no comment on sylencia, but ghor asked to. he delay. no comment yet. ghor pissed. hopeless no comment on sylencia. he attack ghor when ghor question sylencia. sylencia no comment hopeless, scummy defense of risk. this constellation leave ghor unsure and conflicting. ghor rethought risk again, townread he gave spontaneously maybe wrong, but rethinking also good scum candidate. but ghor need compromise on one of them. and ghor knows he prefer sylencia most, but would compromise on other two. hopeless, need opinion on sylencia, too. need opinion on sylencia from risk. | ||
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Ghor
Russian Federation140 Posts
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Ghor
Russian Federation140 Posts
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AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
I have counted it, but i am a bit bleary eyed and want a nap. If Hopeless is at L-2 I will vote now. I ought wake up, but just to be safe... | ||
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