| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
zarepath
United States1626 Posts
On March 20 2013 23:44 WaveofShadow wrote: Apparently so? There is a circumstance where I think this may not be true since again, my PM says nothing about alignment, but my rolecheck result surprised me. What was surprising about your N1 rolecheck, WoS? This was never clear to me. | ||
|
zarepath
United States1626 Posts
On March 20 2013 23:40 WaveofShadow wrote: DP I already linked it. You quoted it. Had I gone longer without having to reveal, before every nightcheck I would refer to someone being 'particularly interesting.' Also, where are your breadcrumbs for each of your other nightchecks? You never gave any breadcrumb that you would check who you actually alleged to check, and convenientely both times those people ended up as dead, and you only claimed to have checked them after they were dead. Another question is this: if you have been roleblocked the past two nights, why did literally nobody claim that they were roleblocked on N1? | ||
|
TestSubject893
United States774 Posts
On March 26 2013 01:41 kitaman27 wrote:+ Show Spoiler + Something I had not noticed until I reread the thread, was that cosmicomics has pushed a single lynch this game on VisceraEyes. I'll get back to that in a moment, but first let me point out his votes on day one and day three: On March 18 2013 10:34 cosmicomics wrote: Upon review I am fine with lynching either GreYMisT or zarepath (his latest post really throws me off). Gonna go with GreYMisT because zarepath will quickly expose himself if he is indeed scum. ##Vote: GreYMisT Notice how he isn't voting GreYMisT after explaining why GreYMisT is scum. He is voting GreYMisT because "zarepath will quickly expose himself if he is indeed scum". This reason for voting GreYMisT has nothing to actually do with GreYMisT. On March 23 2013 02:34 cosmicomics wrote: All there is to say about Mr. Wiggles has already been said. Vote Mr.Wiggles Now lets take a look at his day three vote. He references a single post by BH and throws down his vote. Wiggles was probably the single most talked about player this game and this is actually the first time cosmic brings his name up. Again, he doesn't actually bring any evidence to the table, he simply jumps on board with the cases that others have presented. Now onto the important part, his day two push on VE. This is a classic example of the chainsaw defense and I expect it to get a lot of discussion during post game. For those unfamiliar with the chainsaw defense, its a common mafia tactic where you defend your scum buddy by attacking their attacker. cosmic's case against VE: + Show Spoiler + On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: I don't understand why we are scrutinizing Wade Fell and not even glancing over at VisceraEyes. On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: ]There should be absolutely no issue with Wade Fell defending whom he thinks is a town read, unless VisceraEyes suspects that both goodkarma and Wade Fell are scum, and that Wade Fell is defending goodkarma using fabricated evidence. Nothing in VisceraEyes' case indicates that he believes this, so there is no town alibi for saying this. On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: You don't say that someone makes an excellent point, and then totally ignore it when evaluating their play. But that is what VisceraEyes tries to do. He sweeps away something that he himself called "an excellent point" and misconstrues Wade Fell as wasting all his time D1 defending goodkarma, which isn't even scum indicative as his posting shows. On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: Therefore, the magnitude of VisceraEyes' misinterpretation is greater for he is a hypocrite in saying that Wade Fell did nothing, when he himself asserts that Wade Fell made an excellent point. On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: Again, more misinformation. Here VisceraEyes tries to push the idea that Wade Fell's usage of the mason role is indicative of him being scum. He asserts that the mason role should be used to determine alignment first and foremost. Well that's blatantly wrong. There is nothing wrong, and in fact there is something very valuable with masoning a town read in order to bounce around thoughts and ideas. Wade Fell himself explains his mason choice: On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: How is that not a sensible response? It helps Wade Fell solidify his read on goodkarma, and also helps direct goodkarma's scumhunting as Wade Fell acted as his coach. There is very good townie motivations to mason a town read. However VisceraEyes tries to push the idea that Wade Fell used his role poorly and therefore must be scum. On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: Ok. VisceraEyes' hypothesis is that Wade Fell is a scum mason trying to manipulate townies. On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: What VisceraEyes is doing is calling both goodkarma and Wade Fell scum, and using "town goodkarma" as evidence of Wade Fell scum. Only scum do this. This entire attack of VE is essentially a defense of BH, explaining that VE is mafia because he is misrepresenting the posts of a town. His attacks on VE are based on BH being town, but it's as if he has already made up his mind about this. He fails to strongly consider that BH could be mafia and this case is too confident to be pushed by a town player. Now I want to make the single most important part of my case. *IMPORTANT* VisceraEyes claims vet at the beginning of day two on page 54. cosmic does not address the vet claim until the very end of the cycle on page 122. From a town mindset, the single strongest reason for VE not to be mafia is the fact that there was 1 kp on night one, VE claimed the hit, and VE claimed veteran. If I'm going to push VE, I'm most certainly going to accuse VE of lying about the hit and explaining what happened to the missing mafia kp. Instead, he selectively ignores it. This is proof that cosmic was presenting a biased case against VE. He didn't care about VE's alignment, he only cared about the parts of the case he could use to prove that VE was scum. On March 21 2013 03:27 cosmicomics wrote: The most simplest explanation to this whole ordeal is that VisceraEyes is scum, jumping around from target to target to see who will latch without meaningful contribution, made up the 3P business up to sidetrack the town even more, especially since we are deep into D2 without too much consolidation after WaveofShadow claimed. VisceraEyes is scum and making crap up The simplest explanation to this whole ordeal is most certainly not that VE is scum. That would mean that the mafia had withheld their kp or double stacked their shots, VE would fake-claim a hit, and VE would fake-claim a vet. Going into day two, VE was not under so much claim that he required such a drastic move. On March 22 2013 06:57 cosmicomics wrote: Therefore if the night actions suggest that VisceraEyes' claim is indeed valid, then I swallow my pride because it is more likely that VisceraEyes is playing funky than it is for scum to sacrifice one of their KP to fakeclaim vet, and we get down to lynching goodkarma and unfolding things from there. At the end of day two, cosmic finally concedes that it is more likely that VisceraEyes is playing funky than it is for scum to sacrifice one of their KP to fakeclaim vet. Yet, at the end of day two, cosmic is still voting VE in a lynch that was decided by one vote. So why did this reasoning apply when VE was about to get lynched, but not apply moments later? Because it fitted his agenda. If he wanted to get GoodKarma lynched, he would need a abandon his views on VE. Finally, take a look at how cosmic responded to my views of suspicion on him. On March 25 2013 12:50 cosmicomics wrote: Oh yea, upon review I think kitaman27 is scum and I would be glad to duke it out with him tomorrow. He won't be dead (cuz he scum) and I won't be dead (because scum don't shoot potential mislynches). Sorry about the multi-posts. Thinks just came to me as I was reviewing things and I didn't want to lose the thoughts. At no point in the game had he mentioned suspicion of myself. Not once. Now an hour after I mention my intentions to get him lynched, he suddenly had a revelation that pointed to me being scum. He knows the only way to defend himself is to attack me and responds with a textbook omgus. I'm so confident about this one that I'd be willing to offer myself in a 1:1 trade. cosmic is scum Please read through and post your thoughts on this case. We can't have a cycle of inactivity like yesterday. I plan to address glurio, the next time I have the opportunity to post. I still have a mafia read on him. I actually agree that layabout is likely one of the remaining scum as well. I like this a lot and agree with the conclusion. Cosmicomics is definitely in my top 2 targets for today. | ||
|
TestSubject893
United States774 Posts
On March 26 2013 01:46 zarepath wrote: Also, where are your breadcrumbs for each of your other nightchecks? You never gave any breadcrumb that you would check who you actually alleged to check, and convenientely both times those people ended up as dead, and you only claimed to have checked them after they were dead. Another question is this: if you have been roleblocked the past two nights, why did literally nobody claim that they were roleblocked on N1? If he's town, he shouldn't be breadcrumbing after the claim since he's just gonna tell us if he lives through the night and risks mafia framing his target. 'Where was the RB N1?' however is a great question. Its a piece in large stack of evidence that WoS's claim is fake. | ||
|
glurio
Germany597 Posts
I'd like to see how you plan to make that work. | ||
|
WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
I have a town read on him. I can't see scum pushing his reads as far as he has (DP/VE). The only theoretical reason I could see for Ryu so aggressively pushing VE (which, as you'll remember Ace did as well and was town) from a scum perspective would be if scum actually was worried about some sort 3rd-party recruiter having gotten to him. Again, KISS forces me to believe this is not the case (which doesn't explain the presence of The Mirror but whatever) so I am inclined to believe Ryu was not afraid of being seen as one of the main proponents of a lynch on VE, especially since BH was already pushing him so hard. Ryu if you're around I'd like to hear your thoughts on DP. Has anything changed in your read since yesterday? Also mebbe thoughts on the recent cases on me/cc/layabout? | ||
|
cosmicomics
81 Posts
kitaman27 is a seasoned mafia vet and is capable of playing very well as either alignment. You won't catch him with "scum slips" or anything blatant like that. You need to look at deeper motives and really look at context to see subtle mafia agenda actions. First is his big case on WaveofShadow D2. If you reread how D2 unfolded, you would have noticed that there was a reasonable amount of suspicion and attention on Wade Fell as he garnered several votes. You have to watch the timing. kitaman27's case comes in at a timing to shift the attention off the Wade Fell / VisceraEyes interaction entirely, by offering a new prospective lynch target, namely WaveofShadow. His follow up post addressing the Wade Fell / VisceraEyes reveals the mafia agenda. On March 20 2013 09:09 kitaman27 wrote: It would be silly to lynch either of VE or BH this cycle. Both are claimed blues. Let the mafia deal with them. If the issue is still around in two or three cycles, than we address it, but not on day two where there are so many other things to look at. It's very subtle isn't it? He shifts attention away from the whole VisceraEyes / Wade Fell by "letting mafia deal with them". He implants the idea into town that it is very "silly" to look into these two suspects, and that the night actions will resolve the whole issue. The bolded part shows his intent to push the focus away. So many other things to look at? Why is the Wade Fell / VisceraEyes situation something not worth looking at / trying to figure out? Why does he work to take not only his attention, but the rest of town's away from the issue onto a new topic in WaveofShadow? This is mafia misdirection at it's finest. You don't have to come into the thread and take bold stances you will be accountable for later on. All you have to do is evade the issue entirely and get people to focus on something else. No one can hold you accountable. This is further supported in the way that he really works to drive this case home. + Show Spoiler + On March 20 2013 09:39 kitaman27 wrote: Being defensive is a newbie scum trait, so I don't think that really plays much of a part. This is his 5th or 6th game though, so he should be more than capable of pushing a case. In one of his early posts he mentions how he would rather not provide a scum read until he is prepared to develop a strong case. It's 100+ hours and 60ish pages into the game and he still hasn't done so. On March 20 2013 09:45 kitaman27 wrote: I write up a case against you and your response is that you've never lied? Where am I calling you a liar? My case is that you show no interest in pushing a lynch. Even with this post, you ask "who are the lynch targets"? A town player decides a lynch target and pushes it on other players. A mafia player looks at the bandwagons and selects his favorite. I don't need another player to defend you. I'd like a response from yourself on the issues I mentioned. On March 20 2013 09:48 kitaman27 wrote: This is exactly what I'm referring to. Just minutes earlier you posted about how you wanted to know who where the lynch candidates in order to determine who to look at. Now you're voting Wiggles with a one line explanation. You clearly couldn't have taken the time to read through the filters of the players you just asked about. So why is it that you are voting based on town sentiment, rather than finding a player that you believe is scum and explaining to everyone why you believe this is the case. On March 20 2013 10:06 kitaman27 wrote: I might have to call you a liar now. Your explanation on the DarthPunk vote was: Your explanation on the GreYMisT vote was larger, but at that point you were preaching to the choir, as you were the 12th person on him. There was nobody to convince at that point. And here is your explanation of the wiggles vote, aided by a few other one liners about how he is lazy. Of course I would like you to go into further detail. Calling yourself town doesn't convince other players that you are town. Posting a case and pushing a lynch is what does that. I spent 2 hours reading the thread and another hour on my case against you. You look like you've sent 3 minutes deciding who to jump on. On March 20 2013 10:16 kitaman27 wrote: Since I made it pretty clear what I thought about his alignment, I'd be much more interested listening to what you had to say, rather than justifying it for you. Do you have a mafia read on Wave? On March 20 2013 10:26 kitaman27 wrote: How is your alignment in past games relevant at all? Look at how much effort he puts into getting everyone to focus on this lynch. Now, let's do a comparison case to the glurio case. Absolutely no follow up. No effort into convincing people, no effort to get opinions out of people, no effort to push the wagon. What's the difference? There isn't a pressing need to take attention off of a teammate like in the case of Wade Fell. There is only the need to maintain the image of scumhunting. Now, let's look further into his glurio read. If you read D2 carefully, you would notice that glurio posted a case on WaveofShadow maybe 3 hours earlier than kitaman27's case. Pull up the cases side by side and compare. What do you notice? They both use very similar bodies of evidence and similar reasoning. The only difference is that kitaman27's case has more paragraphs and quotes and formatting. But the essence is the same. Yet this is kitaman27's #2 scum read. Think about it. If someone makes a case using the same body of evidence and same type of reasoning before you present your own case, wouldn't that give you serious pause before thinking they are scum? Given how vehemently kitaman27 pushed the WaveofShadow case, it must mean that he felt that the case was really good, and that since only glurio picked up on it before anyone else, that glurio was thinking along the same lines. I.e. he was thinking like town. But nope. kitaman27 has glurio at #2 scum read. Not only that, but as glurio perceptively points out On March 26 2013 02:02 glurio wrote: You still have a scum read on me even after i posted a case on CC, which is my #1 scumread at the moment, kita? I'd like to see how you plan to make that work. kitaman27 isn't thinking holistically about the game at all, despite telling everyone that that is exactly what he has been doing. kitaman27 has been subtly working behind the sense to further mafia agenda and his inconsistencies and timings betray himself. To close I would draw attention to Mr. Wiggles' posts where he notes kitaman27's passive play and apathy, which serves to further highlight how out of place his intense WaveofShadow wagon push is. On March 24 2013 02:44 Mr. Wiggles wrote: People to really watch out for: Kitaman: Kita's play has actually been pretty passive. He's made cases, but has never really pushed them that much. Day 1, he was going after GoodKarma, couldn't get traction, and just sort of went, "Oh well, I'll vote for GreY then I guess", with only a line of explanation that doesn't even say he's scummy. The same thing happened on Day 2, where he made a case on WaveofShadow, but it was deflected by him claiming DT. So, he just votes for me, but doesn't really make too big of a push and only had a couple posts where he doesn't even strongly call me scum: He uses very neutral language, saying he'd support the lynch, and that he'd be willing to vote if there's enough votes. He says he didn't like one thing I did, and then finally votes me not because he says he thinks I'm scum, but because I'm not around. For someone he wants to kill, and who he voted for, he does a good job of not really explaining his read or of ever calling me scum. He did the same thing with the GreYMisT vote. He doesn't push his reads strongly, he doesn't call the people he switches to later scum, and he just votes on whatever the wagon is at the end of the day His passive play combined with the lack of thread interaction and seeming apathy towards the lynch leads me to believe he doesn't have town's best interests in mind, and is scum. Town should watch out for him, because his posts are nicely structured and he makes nice "cases" on people that he doesn't end up pushing. So, there will probably be people who'd oppose killing him based on the form of his posts rather than the content. kitaman27 is the scum mastermind who has been manipulating town from behind the scenes. kitaman27 is the lynch for today. Vote: kitaman27 | ||
|
cosmicomics
81 Posts
On March 26 2013 01:41 kitaman27 wrote: Notice how he isn't voting GreYMisT after explaining why GreYMisT is scum. He is voting GreYMisT because "zarepath will quickly expose himself if he is indeed scum". This reason for voting GreYMisT has nothing to actually do with GreYMisT. A misinterpretation. That line merely served to explain my preference of GreYMisT over zarepath, not my explanation of lynching GreYMisT. On March 26 2013 01:41 kitaman27 wrote: Now lets take a look at his day three vote. He references a single post by BH and throws down his vote. Wiggles was probably the single most talked about player this game and this is actually the first time cosmic brings his name up. Again, he doesn't actually bring any evidence to the table, he simply jumps on board with the cases that others have presented. Again another misinterpretation. Wade Fell / VisceraEyes were the most talked about players and it is kitaman27 who only had a passing comment upon these two players. kitaman27 acts as if everyone needs to "bring something to the plate" when it was quite obvious why people were voting Mr. Wiggles (lurking & trying to find blame for the Ace mislynch). There's nothing "new" to bring. On March 26 2013 01:41 kitaman27 wrote: Now onto the important part, his day two push on VE. This is a classic example of the chainsaw defense and I expect it to get a lot of discussion during post game. For those unfamiliar with the chainsaw defense, its a common mafia tactic where you defend your scum buddy by attacking their attacker. cosmic's case against VE: + Show Spoiler + On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: I don't understand why we are scrutinizing Wade Fell and not even glancing over at VisceraEyes. On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: ]There should be absolutely no issue with Wade Fell defending whom he thinks is a town read, unless VisceraEyes suspects that both goodkarma and Wade Fell are scum, and that Wade Fell is defending goodkarma using fabricated evidence. Nothing in VisceraEyes' case indicates that he believes this, so there is no town alibi for saying this. On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: You don't say that someone makes an excellent point, and then totally ignore it when evaluating their play. But that is what VisceraEyes tries to do. He sweeps away something that he himself called "an excellent point" and misconstrues Wade Fell as wasting all his time D1 defending goodkarma, which isn't even scum indicative as his posting shows. On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: Therefore, the magnitude of VisceraEyes' misinterpretation is greater for he is a hypocrite in saying that Wade Fell did nothing, when he himself asserts that Wade Fell made an excellent point. On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: Again, more misinformation. Here VisceraEyes tries to push the idea that Wade Fell's usage of the mason role is indicative of him being scum. He asserts that the mason role should be used to determine alignment first and foremost. Well that's blatantly wrong. There is nothing wrong, and in fact there is something very valuable with masoning a town read in order to bounce around thoughts and ideas. Wade Fell himself explains his mason choice: On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: How is that not a sensible response? It helps Wade Fell solidify his read on goodkarma, and also helps direct goodkarma's scumhunting as Wade Fell acted as his coach. There is very good townie motivations to mason a town read. However VisceraEyes tries to push the idea that Wade Fell used his role poorly and therefore must be scum. On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: Ok. VisceraEyes' hypothesis is that Wade Fell is a scum mason trying to manipulate townies. On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: What VisceraEyes is doing is calling both goodkarma and Wade Fell scum, and using "town goodkarma" as evidence of Wade Fell scum. Only scum do this. This entire attack of VE is essentially a defense of BH, explaining that VE is mafia because he is misrepresenting the posts of a town. His attacks on VE are based on BH being town, but it's as if he has already made up his mind about this. He fails to strongly consider that BH could be mafia and this case is too confident to be pushed by a town player. Again, another misinterpretation. All kitaman27 is doing here is saying that I'm scum because I was wrong about Wade Fell. The last line is garbage because no one looks at two players screaming at each other and thinks "oh I should strongly consider both should be scum". The last point is also garbage - what, townies don't make confident cases? What is "too confident"? It's just wordplay here. On March 26 2013 01:41 kitaman27 wrote: Now I want to make the single most important part of my case. *IMPORTANT* VisceraEyes claims vet at the beginning of day two on page 54. cosmic does not address the vet claim until the very end of the cycle on page 122. From a town mindset, the single strongest reason for VE not to be mafia is the fact that there was 1 kp on night one, VE claimed the hit, and VE claimed veteran. If I'm going to push VE, I'm most certainly going to accuse VE of lying about the hit and explaining what happened to the missing mafia kp. Instead, he selectively ignores it. This is proof that cosmic was presenting a biased case against VE. He didn't care about VE's alignment, he only cared about the parts of the case he could use to prove that VE was scum. The simplest explanation to this whole ordeal is most certainly not that VE is scum. That would mean that the mafia had withheld their kp or double stacked their shots, VE would fake-claim a hit, and VE would fake-claim a vet. Going into day two, VE was not under so much claim that he required such a drastic move. At the end of day two, cosmic finally concedes that it is more likely that VisceraEyes is playing funky than it is for scum to sacrifice one of their KP to fakeclaim vet. Yet, at the end of day two, cosmic is still voting VE in a lynch that was decided by one vote. So why did this reasoning apply when VE was about to get lynched, but not apply moments later? Because it fitted his agenda. If he wanted to get GoodKarma lynched, he would need a abandon his views on VE. This is a closed setup game with unconventional roles (the Nightmare). kitaman27 quotes one of my posts but cuts off my explanation. On March 22 2013 06:57 cosmicomics wrote: Depends on the night results. His behavior and actions aside, VisceraEyes' vet claim is very strong indicator that he isn't scum if it is true. The key phrase is "if it is true". Because this game has a closed setup, we do not know the nature of scum KP. There is no reason to suppose that it should go by standard precedent (in which I suspect 3 initial KP for scum), and with the flip of a role like Nightmare, I don't find it a stretch to think scum were compensated with other forms of KP. Therefore if the night actions suggest that VisceraEyes' claim is indeed valid, then I swallow my pride because it is more likely that VisceraEyes is playing funky than it is for scum to sacrifice one of their KP to fakeclaim vet, and we get down to lynching goodkarma and unfolding things from there. If not, it's tunnel city because there is nothing aside from his claim that I see as reasonable body of evidence that he is town. There is nothing from my role PM or the setup that gives me insight to how scum KP works. In a closed setup it is dangerous to make normal game assumptions so I take everything with a grain of salt. I find that even 2 initial KP is strange (again, in the post but edited out by kitaman27). Objectively looking at his playstyle alone I found him scum, and because the time of the post comes after the lynch, there is time to reevaluate. Since I was going to get information from N2 actions, of course there is time for reconsideration, but I don't bank on N2 actions to dictate my D2 play. That's foolishness. Furthermore, kitaman27 exposes himself as a hypocrite. In his defense of VisceraEyes, he says himself that the vet shot is a non factor. On March 20 2013 09:09 kitaman27 wrote: I had a town read on VE prior to the claimed hit, due to the interest he seemed to put into the game on day one and I see little reason why claiming a hit should change things. There shouldn't be two votes on him and discussing him today is wasting time that could be diverted to other individuals. kitaman27 is a hypocrite. He accuses me of failing to do something that all townies do when he himself did just the same thing. That is indicative of a mafia inconsistency, because they have to lie and act deceitfully to get mislynches. Let me repeat that. The single most important part of his case is something that he himself didn't believe in. On March 26 2013 01:41 kitaman27 wrote: Finally, take a look at how cosmic responded to my views of suspicion on him. At no point in the game had he mentioned suspicion of myself. Not once. Now an hour after I mention my intentions to get him lynched, he suddenly had a revelation that pointed to me being scum. He knows the only way to defend himself is to attack me and responds with a textbook omgus. It is true that no point in the game prior I mentioned suspicion. But neither most players. I say in the quote he posts that I was reviewing things. kitaman27 is trying to blame me for not noticing earlier. Which is again garbage. "Oh you didn't find me D1 so you are scum!". When does something like this ever make sense? kitaman27 is desperately trying hard to pull of a mislynch and is coming up with garbage excuses and hypocritical points. He is scum and should hang today. | ||
|
cosmicomics
81 Posts
in the hypocrisy quote, "I see little reason" should also be bolded. He sees little reason why a claimed hit changes anything, i.e. all he is using is behavioral analysis, not the vet claim, which is what he accuses me of failing to do. "single most important part". Hypocrite. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 26 2013 02:42 cosmicomics wrote: It's very subtle isn't it? He shifts attention away from the whole VisceraEyes / Wade Fell by "letting mafia deal with them". He implants the idea into town that it is very "silly" to look into these two suspects, and that the night actions will resolve the whole issue. The bolded part shows his intent to push the focus away. So many other things to look at? Why is the Wade Fell / VisceraEyes situation something not worth looking at / trying to figure out? Why does he work to take not only his attention, but the rest of town's away from the issue onto a new topic in WaveofShadow? Guess what, the night actions did take care of the situation. You don't mislynch a claimed vet, the cycle after they claim a hit, especially when a kp is not accounted for. WaveofShadow was my top scum read, I researched and posted a case, and pushed the lynch. There is nothing here to attack me for. On March 26 2013 02:42 cosmicomics wrote: Now, let's do a comparison case to the glurio case. Absolutely no follow up. No effort into convincing people, no effort to get opinions out of people, no effort to push the wagon. What's the difference? There isn't a pressing need to take attention off of a teammate like in the case of Wade Fell. There is only the need to maintain the image of scumhunting. Look how cosmic is taking my play 100% out of context. Wiggles was my preferred day three lynch. I posted the case on glurio because I'm trying to generate additional content, not because I'm trying to push a glurio wagon. It wouldn't make sense to try to get glurio lynched, when Wiggles is my target. But of course he knows this. As I stated earlier, I'll address glurio today, but you are currently my primary lynch target. You attack me for bringing up a second person on day three while I continue to scum hunt, but where were you to push a lynch on day three? You were completely absent from discussion. On March 26 2013 02:42 cosmicomics wrote: Not only that, but as glurio perceptively points out kitaman27 isn't thinking holistically about the game at all, despite telling everyone that that is exactly what he has been doing. kitaman27 has been subtly working behind the sense to further mafia agenda and his inconsistencies and timings betray himself. Are you honestly trying to discredit my play because one of my top mafia reads has a scum read on another mafia player? I'm supposed to suddenly give you a free pass because this has never happened in the history of mafia? I've proven why you are scum, hiding behind an association defense isn't going to save you. On March 26 2013 02:42 cosmicomics wrote: kitaman27 is the scum mastermind who has been manipulating town from behind the scenes. kitaman27 is the lynch for today. Vote: kitaman27 Now you're just being over dramatic. I'm suddenly the scum mastermind? If you had a problem with my WoS case on day two, why not attack me for it then? If you had a problem with my glurio case last cycle, why not attack me for it then? Why am I not worth a post until I bring up a case against you and push you for the lynch? The difference between you and me is that I care about town, you care about yourself. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 26 2013 03:12 cosmicomics wrote: A misinterpretation. That line merely served to explain my preference of GreYMisT over zarepath, not my explanation of lynching GreYMisT. So if your preference was GreYMisT, where was your reasoning? You're voting for GreYMisT with no evidence that you think he is scum or that you're trying to push the lynch. On March 26 2013 03:12 cosmicomics wrote: Again another misinterpretation. Wade Fell / VisceraEyes were the most talked about players and it is kitaman27 who only had a passing comment upon these two players. kitaman27 acts as if everyone needs to "bring something to the plate" when it was quite obvious why people were voting Mr. Wiggles (lurking & trying to find blame for the Ace mislynch). There's nothing "new" to bring. Again, sure other people were voting Wiggles, but why aren't you justifying your vote? You're essentially admitting to sheeping town sentiment. You never mention Wiggles the day earlier and put in absolutely no effort to push anyone else. On March 26 2013 03:12 cosmicomics wrote: Again, another misinterpretation. All kitaman27 is doing here is saying that I'm scum because I was wrong about Wade Fell. That is certainly not what I'm saying. I'm saying you were using a chainsaw defense with your attack on VE. On March 26 2013 03:12 cosmicomics wrote: This is a closed setup game with unconventional roles (the Nightmare). There is nothing from my role PM or the setup that gives me insight to how scum KP works. In a closed setup it is dangerous to make normal game assumptions so I take everything with a grain of salt. I find that even 2 initial KP is strange (again, in the post but edited out by kitaman27). Objectively looking at his playstyle alone I found him scum, and because the time of the post comes after the lynch, there is time to reevaluate. Since I was going to get information from N2 actions, of course there is time for reconsideration, but I don't bank on N2 actions to dictate my D2 play. That's foolishness. Stating that you don't have knowledge of the mafia kp formula doesn't give you an excuse to discard common sense. A 25 person setup isn't going to involve mafia having a single kp. You never speculate what reason you believe triggered VE to fake claim his vet status. At the end of the cycle, you yourself admit that it was more likely VE was telling the truth about the vet, than mafia hiding a kp and fakeclaiming. However, as you were pushing the lynch, you refused to take it into account. That is a biased case. On March 22 2013 06:57 cosmicomics wrote: Furthermore, kitaman27 exposes himself as a hypocrite. In his defense of VisceraEyes, he says himself that the vet shot is a non factor. kitaman27 is a hypocrite. He accuses me of failing to do something that all townies do when he himself did just the same thing. That is indicative of a mafia inconsistency, because they have to lie and act deceitfully to get mislynches. Let me repeat that. The single most important part of his case is something that he himself didn't believe in. lol I'm not even sure what you are saying here. I'm saying that VE's vet claim does not change my town read on him to a mafia read. That's because the vet claim aligns itself with a town explanation. What I'm saying about you is that if you have a mafia read, then you better have an explanation about the role claim that points to him being town. I'm not being hypocritical and you're twisting my words. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 26 2013 02:02 glurio wrote: You still have a scum read on me even after i posted a case on CC, which is my #1 scumread at the moment, kita? I'd like to see how you plan to make that work. I don't feel that his alignment invalidates my case against you. If he is your number one scum read, then where is your vote? Where do you stand between my case on him and his case on me? | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 26 2013 01:50 TestSubject893 wrote: I like this a lot and agree with the conclusion. Cosmicomics is definitely in my top 2 targets for today. Do you intend to help me push a cosmic lynch or do you plan on sticking on WoS this cycle? If we were ever to lynch a mafia roleblocker, it essentially solves the WoS case. He looks like he is putting in enough effort that I don't think he's the best lynch today. | ||
|
zarepath
United States1626 Posts
| ||
|
Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
| ||
|
WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + I wanted to assume Trancestorm was scum since we didn't get a flip on his modkill but the fact that there's still 2 KP at night probably means he wasn't. Either way, if we eliminate a scum today then scum KP goes down to 1. It definitely is not LYLO yet: Assuming a 3rd party (just for shits): 8-4-1 If we don't lynch today it becomes 5-4-1 after night kills. We can technically come back from that, but next day will be LYLO if we mislynch I believe. Is that math right? (Also if there is no 3rd party I think we're in better shape.) | ||
|
glurio
Germany597 Posts
| ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 26 2013 04:44 zarepath wrote: I'd like kita and CC's thoughts on layabout and WoS and why they think their scum read is scummier. From my experience with a scum layabout in Storm and Holy Roman, a mafia layabout likes to take the back seat and let others do the dirty work. After reading back through those two games, there wasn't a single instance where he lead his own lynch. I think that matches up pretty closely with this game. His votes on DarthPunk and Zarepath gained nearly no traction and he seemed fine with that. He did advocate a BH lynch, but with absolutely no intensity. At point point he mentions that the goal is to lynch mafia, then suggests a VE lynch who he believes is third party. After Wiggles has been agreed upon, he doesn't try to promote further discussion. Something else I've noticed with layabout is that he is often asking other people questions, but not following up on them. It seems like he values looking town more than actual scum hunting. I'd be quite willing to lynch him next cycle, with glurio as the alternate candidate. Once cosmic is lynched, I think glurio vs layabout will give us a good idea where the intentions of the remaining town members lie. WoS I had a strong mafia read early on, but the apathy that worried me before seems to no longer be the case. He is one of the few players that is contributing and seems to care about town. The way he has explained his role checks is sketchy, but I attribute his behavior more to being a newer player than a player with malicious intentions. I think it is unlikely that a mafia team would allow him to pick checks like vivax and VE without coaching. I currently have a town read on him. I think cosmic is the superior choice to be lynched this cycle because I'm quite confident in my case that I presented. - cosmic only pushes lynches when it seems to benefit him. He was extremely passive on day one and day three. In his defense, he states that I had misinterpreted his posts. There is nothing to misinterpet. He puts absolutely no effort in pushing lynches on those cycles and does not have the town motivation to post. Yet when a mafia objective is on the line, he shows up with a chainsaw defense on day two and an omgus attack on day four. - cosmic claims to have a mafia read on VE, but fails to consider the vet claim pointing to him being town during the lynch. This shows that he is attempting to push a lynch not based on the evidence in front of him, but based on the conclusion he hopes to reach. Furthermore, he makes no attempt to explain what motivation as mafia VE has to fake claim day two or lie about his mirror logs. If I'm considering a player for a lynch, these aren't things that I ignore and brush off as irrelevant. - cosmic does a complete 180 at the end of the cycle, suddenly deciding that the vet claim does point to him being town. He never explains why the ordeal with BH no longer applies. At the end of day two, he was still voting for VE at a point where a single vote would decide the lynch. - cosmic never mentions me in the entire game, yet the moment I claim to intend to go after him, he decides that I'm a veteran mafia mastermind. cosmic is likely a veteran smurf himself and if I had to guess, he's actually the one calling the shots. He attacks me for my case on glurio on day three, yet it was clear that Wiggles was my priority and that glurio was someone I was trying to apply pressure to. He criticisms my case on WoS, yet had no issue at the time it was posted. He is more than willing to explain why I'm scum for events that happened two cycles ago, which he was perfectly fine with at the time. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
| ||
|
geript
10024 Posts
On March 19 2013 13:03 VisceraEyes wrote: Here are my thoughts. Wade Fell is SCUM!! He has done nothing this game. The last game I played with him he aggressively pushed his reads and pressured suspects. He's done nothing like that in this thread. He showed early aggression based on weak reasoning, but all he's done since is defend GK. Literally. But that's not all he's done. Wade Fell is also a mason. I know this because he's been masoned to me all during this phase. He claims to have been masoned to GK during the day. All he's done in this mason convo has been push his same weak arguments he made in the thread at first, then just passively agree with anything I said. He wasn't trying to divine my alignment. And if his posts are to be believe he didn't mason GK to divine his alignment either. He's been masoning town-reads. To what end? He's not bringing anything new to the table in mason chats, that's for sure. This leads me to conclude that Wade Fell is some sort of scum mason attempting to manipulate townies. He claims he can mason a different person every phase, and phase one he chose GK and phase 2 he chose me. Factor in the fact that we've already flipped one town-aligned mason role in Nightmare and I'm inclined to believe that WF's role is scum aligned even more. So WF is scum. Talk about it. Anyone could've noticed this. There are some other things in there that should likely be read, but since we've only flipped BH so far then I think that we need to take a serious look at this being the primary reason for targeting VE. Notice something similar from Keirathi here: On March 19 2013 14:18 Keirathi wrote: It does have a few similarities (you latch on to a "weak" player and refuse to let go), but for the most part I agree. At least until I see some flips. So both Keirathi and VE called BH out on his bullshit Night 1 and both took hits. The major prioritization on N1 looks to be like threats to finding and focusing on BH preventing his death and/or the need to bus him until as late as possible. It does, however, seem a bit mean to NK someone just as they replaced in. On March 19 2013 16:01 sciberbia wrote: And here are people I think have a decent chance of being scum: geript WoS BH glurio zarapeth cosmicomics On March 22 2013 00:17 Vivax wrote: Actually I might be wrong on one of zarepath/cosmicomics and DYH is scum instead of them, I excluded him earlier cause of THIS, but his whole D2 play is inconsistent with those reads. Utterly and completely. I also don't like how he joined the wagons. So yeah, if scum isn't among these I will put up a dunce cap. BH/GK/TS/ZARE/COSMIC/DYH On the assumption that the NK's were prioritization for those who were on track, then BH/Cosmic are the ones who are implicated. Night 3 has the oddest of kills, but it seems like confirmed towny (VE) and an independent kill. On March 25 2013 14:16 Coagulation wrote: ryu and geript are who im looking at for lynch tomorrow. I dont think WOS has faked his claim. Kenpachi looks legit cosmicomic im 50/50 on I dont really know if anything I have seen makes him scummy. doyouhas is flying low. kita has also been flying real low. Hes ignoring me alot too I dunno why. Same with Dbz. Only people who are not ignoring me are people who never played with me before. anyway im town. I know it looks like shit that I wanted to lynch wiggles but I honestly considered him a good chance to flip scum. Most of Coag's filter is unusable IMO. Essentially it's a series of one liners with very little reason given for any of them. My guess is that scum wanted to keep a combination of sheep and Coag doesn't seem to sheep as much as other townies. Overall, I think that one could make a case against Zare or Cosmic for the N2 NKs, however, it's WIFOM and could just be because BH was on both lists. Right now I'm leaning towards Cosmic being scum, but I'm not sure it's the most rock solid case out there. Once I get done with doing my pathophysiology stuff I'm going to look into WoS, Layabout, Zare, Cosmic and Glurio again taking into account the NKs and other dead townie's opinions. | ||
| ||
StarCraft 2 StarCraft: Brood War Britney Dota 2  41775Calm  6143Sea  3642Bisu 1811Flash 1047Horang2 883Hyuk 655ggaemo 416Last 342Pusan 199[ Show more ] Counter-Strike Other Games singsing2323 B2W.Neo1684 Beastyqt571 crisheroes398 DeMusliM266 Lowko211 Fuzer  147RotterdaM88 ArmadaUGS54 KnowMe31 febbydoto31 |
|
HomeStory Cup
HomeStory Cup
SOOP
Oliveira vs Trap
HomeStory Cup
StarCraft2.fi
OlimoLeague
StarCraft2.fi
Sparkling Tuna Cup
StarCraft2.fi
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
[ Show More ] |
|
|
EPT
