EPTI've already done so for you, and you are quite a reasonable mafia head given that you are still alive during D4.
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cosmicomics
81 Posts
I've already done so for you, and you are quite a reasonable mafia head given that you are still alive during D4. | ||
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cosmicomics
81 Posts
On March 26 2013 04:44 zarepath wrote: I'd like kita and CC's thoughts on layabout and WoS and why they think their scum read is scummier. WoS I already explained. layabout was voting Wade Fell before the 3rd party stuff. | ||
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cosmicomics
81 Posts
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geript
10024 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On March 20 2013 08:54 kitaman27 wrote: Finally have some spare time. I'll respond to a couple relavent issues, but first I wanted to get out a post on one of my strongest scum reads. I may have a second post about another player I'm suspicious of, depending on how much time I have. WaveofShadow The first player I'd like to bring up is WaveofShadow. Whenever I try to look at a player, the most important thing to look at in my opinion is motive. During the first few cycles of a game, it can be quite difficult to differentiate a townie post and a mafia post. The easiest way to tell the difference is to ask yourself, what is a player trying to accomplish with these posts and what does this player care most about. When I read through the filter of Wave, I can't help but notice that he is much more willing to play through others, than to put himself out there. On numerous occasions, we can see him prodding other players with questions, but there has been very little follow through. He questions other players reads, but fails to come to significant conclusions. Wave has approached the first two cycles in a way that shows me that he has little interest in being the guy that gets a player lynched. He is more interested in selecting a bandwagon based on the arguments of other players. In his support for the day one lynch, he posts the following: This is the first time in the game he actually mentions Darthpunk. He states in a single line that he supports VE's case, yet provides no reasoning for why he agrees. Notice how defensive he gets with his vote. In reference to his disapproval of VE's circle he states "Call that scummy if you wish." At a point where he has selected his preferred lynch candidate, he is still spending more time discussing VE's completely irrelevant circle. For the sake of keeping this post legible, I've edited out the previous part of this quote, but he spends a whole paragraph discussing the deal with yamato. Why is it that he is spending more time discussing events not relevant to his scumread, than the actual vote itself? It would be one thing if VE's case was so convincing that he had nothing to add. However, when I ask myself, does he care about this lynch, I come to the conclusion that he does not. DarthPunk is his preferred lynch candidate, but at this point he has put absolutely no effort in pushing his selection. He is more than willing to comment on unrelated issues, but when it comes to the part of the game that should be most relevant, he shows little interest. This post shows me that his scum read is influenced by whether or not he believes the town views it as a viable lynch. When a mafia player selects a bandwagon, they often due it based on where the town's sentiment lies. Once he realizes that DarthPunk isn't going to get lynched, he backs off, simply stating that he has responded well to pressure. Back to my point about his "defensive" phrasing of his vote, he has been acting quite defensive during the first two cycles. While a town player plays with confidence, Wave seems quite careful with his actions and is quite concerned with other's view of himself. Look how important it is to him for others to realize his meta based scum-hunting skills are sub-par. On four different occasions he makes this statement. In response to suspicion, he reacts quite strangely. Look how worked up he gets when GM names him as a scum read. There is essentially no pressure or votes on him at this point, yet he is responding as if he is about to be hammered. These are more examples of how important it is to him that he is seen in good light. Note how he has spent more time talking about his annoyance of getting suspected, than he does about DarthPunk earlier. His vote of GreYMisT also occurred at a time where GreYMisT was suspicious of him. Finally, I come to this post which is what caused me to look at him further. Look how squirmish he is in his response. This is at a point where he accidentally mentioned to a lynch, rather than a night kill. It was a 100% typo and a non-issue. Yet here is his talking about how his has to be more careful about not making mistakes and coming up with more excuses. Wave has show that he cares more about himself, than town. He is willing to share opinions on less important issues, while skimping in pushing town objectives when it comes to the lynch. He responds in a mafia manner to suspicion and posts with an attitude that lacks the look of a town player. I think he would make an excellent lynch today. Here's my updates on WoS. I put it in spoilers to make it more readable. + Show Spoiler [Meta] + On March 19 2013 15:59 WaveofShadow wrote: Because you were talking about the logs and Geript a lot in the same post. Sorry it wasn't clear to me. If I had to say one way the other I'd lean town on BH. The differences people have been coming up with in the thread don't seem that big to me, and I'm certainly not 100% of VE's scumclaim against him. There's nothing specifically damning about this (especially as this was during N1), but it should be noted. The next thing that stood out to me is the following interaction: On March 19 2013 16:01 sciberbia wrote: And here are people I think have a decent chance of being scum: geript WoS BH glurio zarapeth trancestorm cosmicomics On March 19 2013 16:02 WaveofShadow wrote: Aside from BH, I see a common theme in your scum list, that is, players who either have barely contributed or could be seen as newbies. I don't like it, and not just because I'm included. This is a flat out deflection away from lurkers. In the 3 games that I've played with WoS, lurkers have comprised 60+% of the scum team and 100% of the 3P. In fact, it's such that I'm very tempted to just lynch based on filter length today (but won't for obvious reasons). Sure Glurio, WoS, Zarapeth, and myself are new (Trance I'm unfamiliar with), but does that exclude ignoring lurkers? Hell Cosmic--a clear smurf--just got up to 3 pages. I don't really understand why a townie who has played with nothing but lurky scum would completely ignore obvious lurkers. + Show Spoiler [Crumb] + I consider the fact that there are breadcrumbs null for a few reasons. First, he could've easily been told to do in order to setup a fake claim as it's mostly nondescript. Second, nothing about the statements are particularly uncharacteristic of either scum or bad town. Third and most damning, I see absolutely no reason for a DT to try and crumb his findings instead of scumhunt. The people most likely to pickup on the tell are scum and therefore puts yourself at more risk for a freebie blue snipe by flip-flopping on a position for no apparent reason instead of actually doing your damn job as town. I especially see no reason to try and defend a smurf VT; mislynches happen and are acceptable up to an extent. But risking a DT for a presumed veteran VT who isn't doing much isn't worth it in any regards to me. This claim looks fake to me. On March 20 2013 05:26 WaveofShadow wrote: This confused me a little VE. Do you not know what your role does? It seemed odd when you were claiming too: And then right after you state it's because you're Vet. Explain? I find this attack on VE especially ironic. The main reason why I bring up this quote is to point out the fact that he attacks VE for some of the exact reasons we're suspicious of him. He doesn't seem to know how his role works. He's twice 'checked' someone who's ended up dead. He gets only a 'flavor' response and essentially says, "Oh hi guyz. I can't believe that I didn't get a result from my check. I'm guessing I got roleblocked." If he really were the DT, I for one would know that I would ask a few questions about rolechecks on dead players to see if I could distinguish between 'dead' results and 'roleblock' results. There's also the fact that VE said that it was distinct that he took a hit; there was flavor, yes, but the intent was clear; that's nothing like WoS' response at all. + Show Spoiler [Mafia Mentality] + On March 20 2013 09:41 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh and kita, cute case. I defy you to go through my meta and find something I've done differently this game than any of my others. I have never once lied in a mafia game thus far and have never been anything but town, including this game. Vivax already gave you one of my typical defenses; hell I'll even add to it to attempt to appease you. The reason I want to be seen in a good light is because I'm town, and don't want people wasting their time trying to point out my dumb mistakes when they should be scumhunting for REAL scum. This is his initial response to the Kita case. Nothing but complete deflection. Notice one key phrase: "The reason I want to be seen in a good light is..." No. Town doesn't give a rat's ass about how they're viewed. Being seen as town is useful for pushing your agenda, but it's not #1. Town #1 goal is hunt scum. Scum's #1 goal is to look towny. What's his next action not 4 minutes off? + Show Spoiler [Mafia Fear] + On March 20 2013 09:45 WaveofShadow wrote: I think I am comfortable enough to vote Wiggle right now though because he really just doesn't appear to give a shit. Vote: Mr. Wiggles That's right pure survival instinct. When the pressure comes to a head, what does he continue to do? Push the wiggles lynch. As a matter of fact the reason why DP voted WoS was: On March 20 2013 10:34 DarthPunk wrote: Kita's case is ridiculously good. It completely exposes a mindset of not caring about the lynch and just following popular trends. Which is NOT a town mindset. Pure sheeping and following popular trends. + Show Spoiler [Claim] + Just the way in which he claims rolecop is tenuous. I personally read it as scummy, but someone else (I forget who) had seen it before as bad town. I see no reason as town to soft claim blue and lead people on for a while. The fact that multiple people were confused as to what exactly he was claiming doesn't feel townie to me. It just shit up the thread on something that we could've moved forward on. I feel like this is the weakest point however. + Show Spoiler [Scumslip re:Claim] + On March 21 2013 12:07 WaveofShadow wrote: That was hours ago. I know I read him as town but FUCK. How in the hell are we ever going to win this game if we have townies like this guy?? I don't care how angry or how hard I'm trying to push a case or what not, I can't think of any way when I got a 100% confirmed town check on someone I would "read" them as town. I just have an exceptionally hard time buying that this isn't a scumslip on a grand proportion. Especially when you combine this with the fact that of the 3 people he's scanned one is green, two are dead and he got roleblocked twice. Beside that point, of the two dead townies Vivax looked pretty town IMO as he was putting major effort into the game and VE was a claimed BLUE. That's right. The town rolecop after a claimed hit with a missing NK checks the claimed Veteran to see if he's really blue or red? If you chose to dismiss VE for wiggles and thought that Wiggles was 100% scum, what do you really expect to learn about VE? That he become scum/3P? Ok maybe. But if he's 3P, then with 2 mislynches, only 1 Scum death, 4 town night deaths and 1-2 presumed townie modkills then 3P is on town's side. Why would you check to see that? If he's scum, then why wouldn't he continue to push to try and get a read on him. TL;DR 1. Defenses of BH and lurkers especially odd considering heavy scum lurking in games he's played 2. Action of breadcrumbing makes no sense from townie perspective 3. Wants Townie cred 4. Constantly sheeps popular trends 5. Non-townie method to claiming 6. I see absolutely no reason to believe this claim especially considering the claimed series of the actions. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
On March 26 2013 13:41 cosmicomics wrote: geript: why hasn't scum shot kitaman27 yet? That's all WIFOM. It's the same as asking why haven't they shot DYH, DP or any of the smurfs. My personal opinion was that N1 and N2 they focused on people who were threats so that if they had to bus BH they could at least grab the town cred for it. I think the N2 kills could be because both Scib/Vivax had 2 scum on their list, but that's a guess. As for the N3 hits (really though specifically Coag), I don't know. It's not the call I would've made by any stretch as, by reputation, he seems like someone who you could've gotten to shit up the thread and bury every good point and force town to policy lynch him (or get modkilled). I saw your case on kita; I remember liking it. But I also liked Zare's case on Layabout. I'll get to it tomorrow after school and work. I've been trying to focus on re-evaluating all my reads but there's still a number of people. There are a number of people I intend to take another look at, yourself included, tomorrow. | ||
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cosmicomics
81 Posts
Yes, it is WIFOM, but only to a certain degree. As scum you shoot people who are on the right track, or shoot people who are strong town players. Strong town players who are still alive in the late game all deserve a harder look because it means that they are so, so off track that scum aren't threatened at all by them, scum are keeping them alive for a mislynch, or they are scum. Could be the first, really doubt it's the second, probably the third. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On March 26 2013 13:31 cosmicomics wrote: kitaman27, if I'm the one calling the shots, please demonstrate how my actions have mislead the town to 3 consecutive mislynches. I've already done so for you, and you are quite a reasonable mafia head given that you are still alive during D4. On March 26 2013 13:41 cosmicomics wrote: geript: why hasn't scum shot kitaman27 yet? lol your case has come down to "kita is alive, he must be scum!" I've been alive on d4 10 out of my last 12 games as town. But of course you didn't even bother to confirm if your reasoning even makes sense. Your only objective is to push my mislynch ignoring the facts, just like you did with VE. glurio has cosmic as his number one scum read, test has cosmic in his top two scum reads, geript brings forth further evidence why cosmic is scum, yet I'm the only person voting for him. Does nobody care about this game anymore? In the last 12 hours we had one person other than myself or cosmic post and the cycle is nearly 3/4 of the way over already. | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
WoS is now on my radar again and I intend to look more into geript's case on him. If I don't have time to give myself a serious look at him, it'll be between cosmic and layabout for me. I've been wanting a cosmic lynch for days now so I can easily join a cosmic wagon if town wants to consolidate there, but I'd really like more opinions on my layabout case. So far I've heard "good case" from a few people. | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
WaveofShadow I think is town. If he's mafia, he deserves some award. This game is so convoluted that I'm even considering that Vivax killed BH and Testsubject as mafia claimed the bullet when shit went down. vote: layabout yolovote | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
On March 21 2013 01:45 zarepath wrote: From Bureaucracy mafia: layabout, Sandroba, VE, BH Mr. Orange ... does that refer to Fruity Mafia? hopeless1der, layabout, sandroba, yamato, Vivax Layabout is the mirror, isn't he? I'm beginning to wonder if layabout is the mirror and thus a third party. BH, Sandroba, and VE are all dead, and since he explicitly refers to Bureaucracy mafia, the only person left is layabout. I wonder if this explains some of his scummy play -- unwilling to make cases, quick to claim that BH is the mirror and should be lynched, etc. It's also possible, however, that someone else put that there so as to make VE think it was someone else recruiting him, so this is mostly speculation without a real case. The main thing that makes me question my layabout read is the fact that he called for a BH lynch based on the fact that BH was the mirror (he was masoning). That turned out to be a dumb thing that he retracted, though, because logs were posted and we got BH's role name, and it wasn't the Eye. Does anyone else have an opinion on this? Is this a good enough reason to consider layabout town, or a good enough reason to not lynch him today even in the face of his super weird comments about BH? | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
I'm disappointed with the wiggles flip and surprised by the nightkills. It would have been dumb for us to keep VE around and killing him has pretty much confirmed that the mirror exists. It's strange that mafia wanted to tell us this rather than take more predictable shots. Between the mirror being mafia and 3p i would say that 3rd makes a LOT more sense. We are therefore looking at a 4-1-8 at best since If the mirror has recruited anybody we might not have control of the vote and with 2 KP this could very well be lylo. Why are these players still alive? Testsubject893 ThePeaShooter WaveOfShadow I might not be one to talk but with this level of activity and those spread out votes we don't stand a chance. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On March 27 2013 03:39 layabout wrote: It would have been dumb for us to keep VE around and killing him has pretty much confirmed that the mirror exists. Is this a scum slip? The way you phrase this makes it sound like you killed VE. "It was dumb for us to keep VE around" is what I'd expect from a town standpoint. "It would have been dumb for us to keep VE around" infers that we didn't keep VE around. | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
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geript
10024 Posts
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
I am no longer advocating a layabout lynch for today. On another review of his filter, his push to lynch BH does not seem to be scum-motivated, even though it is almost immediately withdrawn -- I can see scum maybe doing it knowing that they are going to withdraw the case because it was based off of misinformation, but that's not my read of what happened. That leaves to me WoS and cosmicomics. On Day 3 I posted this, adding in Wiggles in a subsequent post: On March 22 2013 01:26 zarepath wrote: Vivax, right now I'm convinced there's scum in one of these three players: TestSubject, Trance, and CC. I'm more convinced of CC than the others, but I haven't studied their filters in full since the beginning of D2. In the end, Wiggles got lynched, and at this point the only person left on my list is CC. I've suspected him since Day 2 and he hasn't done anything to look pro-town that I can tell. BH said literally nothing about him, many people have mentioned he looks scummy for the same reasons that Wiggles was scummy and yet Wiggles is the one who got the votes, not CC. His votes have all been scummy, his justifications for his votes have been scummy, and his cases and reads are insubstantial. I think CC is our most surefire lynch, and while WoS' blue claim looks sketchier by the day and layabout looks anti-town, I am most sure of CC being scum of the three. At this time I think that if you are okay with CC being lynched (ie, top 3 scumreads okay) you need to put the vote down on him now before mafia control the lynch as they did the last 3 days. I am not convinced that I can be around for any significant participation leading up to the lynch tonight, and I don't want another Ace lynch on our hands. ##unvote layabout ##vote: cosmicomics | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
Think about how you treat cop claim for instance, if there is only 1 chances are they are town, if there are 2, 1 is probably scum. Greymist was like a half mason so i thought we would probably have no other mason, another mason or a half mason on our side. If there were any more then that then since mason is a powerful role they would very likely be balanced between town and scum. This is why i wanted mason claims. When just BH had claimed we were better off leaving him. When we had evidence of 3 masons we then had enough information to deal with the claim rather than leave it alone. But then VE posted logs in which he said screw town i will join you Mr. Not-town and that was more important to deal with. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
Kitaman27 are you being intentionally dumb? | ||
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