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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On March 27 2013 04:00 layabout wrote:
That list is players that we should not lynch at all. Also know as players that i would have expected to be killed or obviously town players.
Kitaman27 are you being intentionally dumb?
You listed those players asking why are they still alive, which I inferred meant that you wanted them dead. Is this not the case?
If you're asking for the sake of asking, what would you speculate the reason for them being alive?
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On March 27 2013 03:54 geript wrote:
@Kita. You made the original case on WoS, how did he become confirmed townie? How do you explain the missing roleblock?
I can't explain the missing roleblock. It's missing. The only explanation I can think of is that either the mafia team didn't roleblock night one or they buried the roleblock in a kill.
I never called him confirmed townie, but I've changed my mind on him from my original case based on his play on late day two and day three. It does concern me that he has been completely absent this cycle, but I still would prefer cosmic and layabout to die first.
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Wait now Zare switches sides? WTF is going on. Is this supposed to be insane day where everyone goes nuts? Get your shit together people.
First off, @Laya, Kita is right and it read to me like "why haven't we lynched these guys" list. As far as confirmed townie status, WoS is far far from that. No one has explained why a roleblock would go to Keirathi or why scum JOAT would RB WoS instead of just kill him. His claim is tenuous at best.
Second @Kita I covered why burying a RB on Keirathi is mostly insane. No reason IMO to bury one on Keirathi over VE. Why is TestSubject the only other person to bring this up?
@Zare layabout was leading the lynch with a whole 2 votes, why switch sides?
Right now my lynch preference is WoS, Cosmic, Laya but I really need to look into filters again.
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On March 27 2013 04:17 geript wrote:
Wait now Zare switches sides? WTF is going on. Is this supposed to be insane day where everyone goes nuts? Get your shit together people.
First off, @Laya, Kita is right and it read to me like "why haven't we lynched these guys" list. As far as confirmed townie status, WoS is far far from that. No one has explained why a roleblock would go to Keirathi or why scum JOAT would RB WoS instead of just kill him. His claim is tenuous at best.
Second @Kita I covered why burying a RB on Keirathi is mostly insane. No reason IMO to bury one on Keirathi over VE. Why is TestSubject the only other person to bring this up?
@Zare layabout was leading the lynch with a whole 2 votes, why switch sides?
Right now my lynch preference is WoS, Cosmic, Laya but I really need to look into filters again.
It began with the guy who claimed a scum kill with 4 shots that night that was not counter-claimed and was follow by a cop claim and a green check from said cop claim.
plus mafia almost always have a RB that's why cops-don't claim unless they are on the chopping block and why some will stay silent in that position to avoid pointless wifom like you are indulging in
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I switched because I felt less okay about lynching layabout on a potential LYLO day when he actually voted for BH at one point when it wasn't necessary to bus.
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On March 27 2013 04:41 zarepath wrote:
I switched because I felt less okay about lynching layabout on a potential LYLO day when he actually voted for BH at one point when it wasn't necessary to bus.
Umm there's what 14 people left... Why do you think this is LYLO? What you hiding bro?
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yo all.
We kill cosmic today, and I will accept no other lynches. Having looked over the dead players last night, everyone calls him scum, yet no one actually votes him. There are plenty of reasons already stated by other players (kita and wiggles among them) and so I'm not going to bother rehashing those.
##vote cosmicomics
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On March 27 2013 04:47 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 04:41 zarepath wrote:
I switched because I felt less okay about lynching layabout on a potential LYLO day when he actually voted for BH at one point when it wasn't necessary to bus. Umm there's what 14 people left... Why do you think this is LYLO? What you hiding bro?
Someone said for a 24 person game, there can be 5-8 scum. We don't know if 3P has KP that it hasn't used yet. We mislynch, we're at 13 people, scum kill 2, we're at 11. If there are 7 scum in this game and none of them were modkilled, we've lost if we mislynch today.
If there are 6 scum in this game and none of them were modkilled, then we're at 6-5 after the night, but 5-5 if 3P kills someone or we screw up another vigi shot.
I think we should treat today as our last chance to not lose.
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7 scum? wtf??
I'm not sure if I'm going to be around enough to finish my re-read before later but as it stands right now I'm still going with kita and will be voting cc in case I'm not back in enough time to properly address reason to a vote. Aside from zare's points against layabout kita's case makes the most sense, as have most of his cases during the game. I glanced over the past few pages quickly and I can say this much:
Zare and geript you are putting way too much thought into things that are probably a lot more obvious then you're making them seem.
Vote: Cosmiccomics
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On March 21 2013 01:57 WaveofShadow wrote:
Yeah I don't get it.
Is that just him giving up? This really sucks especially if VE was town; we're going to be looking at 13-14/5/? D3
Unvote: Mr. Wiggles
Vote: VisceraEyes
Hmm that reminded me... How'd WoS know we were going to be looking at exactly 5 scum?
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I'll vote cosmicomics today. He couldn't convince me he is town.
Since i'm moving tomorrow i won't be here for the night cycle.
We should really look into layabout tomorrow.
And geript stop tunneling so hardcore, while i agree that WoS isn't confirmed there are much better people to tunnel right now.
In a 25 player game the standard number of scum is 5, also usually scum player/2 = KP, since they always had 2KP 5 is the most likely number of starting scum in the game.
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Forgot to post:
##Vote: cosmicomics
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Couldn't have said it better myself glurio.
I'm actually pretty sure I did say it at some point this game, but I don't have time to read through my own filter right now.
I just found out I WILL be back with enough time to post (hopefully quite a bit, but not sure yet) before flip. Going to keep my vote on cc, but I have an updated scumread on someone else that will hopefully be worth looking into for next day.
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Just caught up with the thread. I was super busy catching up on my reading for UNI.
The night kills were really weird. I have no idea why an absent VE and Coag were lynched ahead of Kitaman or WoS.
I am half tempted to call the both of them scum for just being alive at this point. But the fact of the matter is that WoS claim was sooooo messy that it is probably townie. And I have had a town read on Kita for a substantial majority of the game.
So I am going to trust those reads for better or worse I am afraid.
I really don't like the wagon on CC as it reeks of an easy wagon on lynch bait.
the contradiction of Layabout unearthed by kita a page back is something that feels to me like a genuine slip/expression that is indicative of a scum thought process.
I am going with that, as I am having a heap of problems forming a read at all and it seems like the best thing to go on.
I will be checking the thread regularly until lynch. If anyone wants to talk or requests a filter of someone and my thoughts etc. Let me know.
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I believe WoS's claim, and by extension I believe TPS is either town or some sort of GF role.
I think layabout is scum, and if he isn't the Mirror, I will eat my hat in true BH fashion. Look at this post:
On March 27 2013 03:39 layabout wrote:
I am back am from the looks of it i am one of the few.
I'm disappointed with the wiggles flip and surprised by the nightkills.
It would have been dumb for us to keep VE around and killing him has pretty much confirmed that the mirror exists. It's strange that mafia wanted to tell us this rather than take more predictable shots. Between the mirror being mafia and 3p i would say that 3rd makes a LOT more sense.
We are therefore looking at a 4-1-8 at best since If the mirror has recruited anybody we might not have control of the vote and with 2 KP this could very well be lylo.
Why are these players still alive?
Testsubject893
ThePeaShooter
WaveOfShadow
I might not be one to talk but with this level of activity and those spread out votes we don't stand a chance.
What is the purpose of this post? As far as I can tell all this post contains is speculation and WIFOM. Speculation about the VE kill specifically and nothing about the Coag kill.
The two specific things that catch my eye and scream scummy is the way that laya talks about the mirror, and his WIFOM list at the end.
Laya says that 3p makes a LOT more sense as an explanation for the Mirror when I would argue that the opposite is true. If the mirror is a 3p recruitmen role, why does no recruiting mechanic make sense? Yes, I've harped on this before. If the town is stacked with 6 powerful roles, 3xVig, doc, det, vet, what sort of answering power does scum have? RB, mason, maybe a GF? That isn't balanced. What would make it more balanced is if The Mirror was a scum version of the Nightmare role.
Let me paint a picture with some speculation of my own. Laya, the last living player from bureaucracy, the person most speculative about mason roles, and one of the biggest proponents of being open to/pushing the existence of a recruiting 3p, is The Mirror. He is drawn to speculation about mason roles because he is a mason role. He speculates about the existence of the 3rd party because it is his own scheme to get it into the town's mind/discussion and sidetrack things.
The likelihood of the existence of a 3p recruiting role goes down as more people die and don't flip 3rd party, also while the game drags on and there are no reports of The Mirror masoning anyone else (which is why I think it is suspicious that this is Layabout's go to explanation). Instead, I think that The Mirror is the scum version of The Nightmare, and the death of VE is the final result of his interaction with The Mirror.
But now you are thinking, why were there only 2 deaths last night? Well if TranceStorm was scum before he was modkilled, which I have a strong suspicion he was, then his modkill would have dropped scum to 3 players and 1 kp.
The Cosm wagon feels wrong to me. It feels like the Wiggles wagon after we lynched Ace. Day1 3(4*)-5/5 of the people who got votes were town. Day2 5/5 of the people who got votes were town. Day3, 1(2*)-3/3 of the people who got votes were town. * - I have DP as town in my reads, the parenthesis number is my opinion.
The trend that should be slapping you in the face when you read that information is that we have been looking completely in the wrong direction with most of our lynching efforts. Do a 180, don't just follow the same meandering path that started in day 2 that led from VE to Wiggles to Ace to Wiggles and now to Cosm. In my opinion that road leads to disaster.
Vote: layabout
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EBWOP: I forgot to get to the list of 'why are they alive?'.
All that list does is create suspicion about the claims/rolechecks of those 3 players. What is so bad about it is that he is suspicious of them as a group, which means all it is is WIFOM. If he wanted to attack WoS's claim or the greencheck on TPS or the vig claim of Test he would have addressed them separately. All this list is meant to do is draw the town into a useless discussion (sounds a lot like the 3p) and sow doubt about people largely considered town.
Layabout later retracts this by saying:On March 27 2013 04:00 layabout wrote:
That list is players that we should not lynch at all. Also know as players that i would have expected to be killed or obviously town players.
Kitaman27 are you being intentionally dumb?
Unfortunately for layabout his original list shows a much different line of reasoning than he puts forth in that quote.
layabout is saying that IF these guys are obviously townie, THEN why are they still alive? In other words, casting doubt on their towniness. There just simply no other way that the sentiment plays out. I wouldn't even think of it as a scum tell because I had similar thoughts, except that all his list is doing is inviting other people into WIFOM about the night kills.
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DYH if the mirror is a mafia mason role why is there all of the spiel about "whether you are town or scum join me". A mafia version of the mason role would be better off acting like a town mason maybe using a false name and then just talking to VE til the time was up and shooting him. Also Grey's role does not list an option to "opt out" as VE says he did. It would be highly unusual if mafia had more mason roles than town too. It would also be highly unusual if Dr.H thought and posted about wanting to use conversion roles for ages, put a warning in the OP and then didn't put one in. Reading the VE logs makes me think that a mafia recruiter is not likely and that there is a scum one.
It's important because with such a role we could be dealing with half of the votes not in the hands of town and
We need to vote together.
The point about the word "beaucracy" points as much to one of the smurfs TPS cosmic and Ryu as it does to me.
What are you even trying to say about "wifom lists". I mentioned them because i was surprised they were still alive.
Is DP scummy for coming in saying that the nightkills are weird and that he is surprised Kita and WoS are still alive?
Apparently i am. Wait apparently you also think that and it's not a scumtell but actually it is a scumtell because ______?
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I know many of you have been thinking that cosmic is scum for a while but his case is much stronger than kita's.
Cosmic makes the point that Kitaman has been misdirecting us. After re-reading it turns out that Kitaman27 is the one who raised a bunch of suspicion and posting around Vivax by tring to make an issue out of a scumslip that we should have just ignored.
On March 18 2013 00:06 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 13:21 Vivax wrote:
Yamato i think coagulation is not a good choice for d1 for reasons wf pointed out ...is this a scum slip? As far as I know, ThePeashooter's identity as Yamato is not public knowledge. Was it revealed at any point in the thread?
Wiggles dying words were to warn us about kitaman27 and we should not dismiss them out of hand.
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EPT
