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On March 25 2013 18:28 Ruscour wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2013 18:14 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:On March 25 2013 18:11 Ruscour wrote:On March 25 2013 17:45 Lunareste wrote:On March 25 2013 17:30 Ruscour wrote:
I knew that LoL was demolishing SC2 in Korea but THIS bad...it's just sad. I can't see how this type of investment is sustainable for Blizzard, or how the scene can support the absolute wealth of progamers in Korea. I mean, 7 KeSPA teams and even more eSF teams? That's hundreds of progamers in a scene that really can't support it... Why isn't that type of investment sustainable for Blizzard? You do know that they make BILLIONS of dollars annually from World of Warcraft alone? Blizzard can make two in-game pets for Warcraft and generate the extra income to inject this type of money into whatever they want. Mike Morhaime has publicly stated that Starcraft is his favorite Blizzard franchise, it isn't beyond the realm of possibility that the acting CEO and co-founder of Blizzard wants to use some of what they're making to try and take Starcraft to a new level. Blizzard sponsoring eSports so that their own brand and title becomes even larger as a result? For basically pennies compared to their total annual revenue? I understand the amount of money Blizzard makes. I don't see their investments in eSports being profitable. I don't see SC2 ever becoming what LoL is in Korea right now. I just think that they need to pull something else out of the hat if they want SC2 to succeed. A real foreign league (not tournament, league) has never been done before. I dunno, just something, something to bring the eSports fandom further without dumping it where it's not really wanted. Oh no please, a foreigner league ? Average level, lot of bitching, players forfeiting left and right or showing up late. I would never pay a monthly fee for that. Money! You think there's no bitching in Korea? If you just take the SlayerS drama, compare that to anything that's happened in the foreign scene. We don't hear about the day-to-day stuff because progamers make less public comments and we don't read Korean forums. Average level? Solved by money. Teams see money, they set up real practice environments, and those who don't take it seriously don't get money. Players forfeiting left and right? I said live. Slam it where there are domestic players, in the states or Sweden or wherever. If Blizzard wants eyes, why would they charge a monthly fee? Where was that in the conversation?
Average level solved by money ? Foreign organizations have the big bucks when compared to eSF's, yet you don't see foreigners performing that well against koreans. How many foreigners tried their luck in korea, a country with real practice environnements ? How many of them came back truely stronger ? How many of them got a code A/S seed and latter on forfeited ? Money won't make foreigners better, especially when they can get it from streaming safely at home.
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so ogn shows proleague right now
and blizz give ogn 1.8 mil to make them stop do that and show other stuff instead (like gsl)
and then kespa loses sponsors cause they have no tv channel to show their league on
so kespa disbands along with all teams?
endgoal for blizzard is to choke out kespa and then be a big part to rebuild how things are run in their eyes?
did i get this right or whats actually going on (i know nothing of business or rights ownership etc)
On March 25 2013 17:00 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:
Maybe I am hearing it wrong, but it sounds like Blizz, OGN, and GSL are just combining resources to create a new organization with better funding, broadcasting capabilities and just a more unified body overall. I dont see that as a problem. As for excluding KeSPA, I want to know whether that ignored KeSPA or KeSPA didn't like the terms and backed off of their own volition. Maybe even what terms they didnt like.
this makes more sense to me than what i just said
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I hope the renaming rumor stays a rumor, changing names is a bad sign most of the time.
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On March 25 2013 18:40 MorroW wrote:so ogn shows proleague right now and blizz give ogn 1.8 mil to make them stop do that and show other stuff instead (like gsl) and then kespa loses sponsors cause they have no tv channel to show their league on so kespa disbands along with all teams? endgoal for blizzard is to choke out kespa and then be a big part to rebuild how things are run in their eyes? did i get this right or whats actually going on (i know nothing of business or rights ownership etc) Show nested quote +On March 25 2013 17:00 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:
Maybe I am hearing it wrong, but it sounds like Blizz, OGN, and GSL are just combining resources to create a new organization with better funding, broadcasting capabilities and just a more unified body overall. I dont see that as a problem. As for excluding KeSPA, I want to know whether that ignored KeSPA or KeSPA didn't like the terms and backed off of their own volition. Maybe even what terms they didnt like. this makes more sense to me than what i just said
I think there was no talk about OGN dropping Proleague... or was there? Not so sure myself...
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all i have to say is that if PL or Kespa die then i will be very very sad.
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On March 25 2013 16:05 l10f wrote:
Apparently OGN is getting paid by Blizzard to broadcast the league under Blizzard's name. OGN has nothing to lose here but KeSPA will take a big hit. I don't know how Proleague can continue without OGN's support, and pretty much all of e-sports in Korea is LoL and SC2. KeSPA doesn't control LoL league and if they lose control of SC2 as well, they're in deep trouble. I dislike this move by Blizzard, it just reminds me what they did to destroy BW in Korea. Now they're going to destroy an organization that pretty much made e-sports happen in Korea. Even though many people dislike KeSPA's practices, you have to admit that they were very effective in getting the job done, which was to stabilize the e-sports industry in Korea.
The last line of DES's article also says that the KeSPA teams are already showing disapproval since Blizzard shows a lack of care for Proleague and they see no reason to send their players to a league sponsored by the organization that shows such a lack of care for KeSPA and its teams that worked so hard to develop the players.
They are not "destroying" sc2 and they did not "destroy" BW. Blizzard made the game and logically claimed rights for broadcasting, turns out they failed in doing so since the OGN setup was of formative shape ( they didn't just copy the game, they made overlays, timers, addons and lot of other things to have their "product" surpass the original, hence no argument that they broke the copyright that blizzard claims on all their "original games").
It's the same concept on Youtube, if you make a gag video, use tidbits of music videos but alter the context alltogether, it is not considering copyright infringement, since you have made a formative piece of art, not copying the original piece of art.
besides Blizzard knows that if they piss in the GSL/OSL jar, all hell will break loose and they will NEVER sell that many copies of LOTV as they did with HOTS.
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On March 25 2013 18:40 MorroW wrote:so ogn shows proleague right now and blizz give ogn 1.8 mil to make them stop do that and show other stuff instead (like gsl) and then kespa loses sponsors cause they have no tv channel to show their league on so kespa disbands along with all teams? endgoal for blizzard is to choke out kespa and then be a big part to rebuild how things are run in their eyes? did i get this right or whats actually going on (i know nothing of business or rights ownership etc) Show nested quote +On March 25 2013 17:00 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:
Maybe I am hearing it wrong, but it sounds like Blizz, OGN, and GSL are just combining resources to create a new organization with better funding, broadcasting capabilities and just a more unified body overall. I dont see that as a problem. As for excluding KeSPA, I want to know whether that ignored KeSPA or KeSPA didn't like the terms and backed off of their own volition. Maybe even what terms they didnt like. this makes more sense to me than what i just said
They want to choke out the big sponsors out of the KR scene? They might as well move Gangnam studio to EU or NA, along with the whole eSF.
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Could it simply be a matter of KeSPA not being needed for these negotiations since Proleague isn't being affected? I would suspect the GSTL is probably also not going to be affected by what seems like some sort of Blizzard version of what Riot does with LoL then team leagues are largely irrelevant to the point. Proleague can continue on as it was before as can GSTL while the individual leagues are more centralized.
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On March 25 2013 19:00 Adellund wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2013 16:05 l10f wrote:
Apparently OGN is getting paid by Blizzard to broadcast the league under Blizzard's name. OGN has nothing to lose here but KeSPA will take a big hit. I don't know how Proleague can continue without OGN's support, and pretty much all of e-sports in Korea is LoL and SC2. KeSPA doesn't control LoL league and if they lose control of SC2 as well, they're in deep trouble. I dislike this move by Blizzard, it just reminds me what they did to destroy BW in Korea. Now they're going to destroy an organization that pretty much made e-sports happen in Korea. Even though many people dislike KeSPA's practices, you have to admit that they were very effective in getting the job done, which was to stabilize the e-sports industry in Korea.
The last line of DES's article also says that the KeSPA teams are already showing disapproval since Blizzard shows a lack of care for Proleague and they see no reason to send their players to a league sponsored by the organization that shows such a lack of care for KeSPA and its teams that worked so hard to develop the players. (they didn't just copy the game, they made overlays, timers, addons and lot of other things to have their "product" surpass the original, hence no argument that they broke the copyright that blizzard claims on all their "original games").
I am not too convinced that they didn't break copyrights just because of those addition, but that's beside the topic
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On March 25 2013 18:11 Ruscour wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2013 17:45 Lunareste wrote:On March 25 2013 17:30 Ruscour wrote:
I knew that LoL was demolishing SC2 in Korea but THIS bad...it's just sad. I can't see how this type of investment is sustainable for Blizzard, or how the scene can support the absolute wealth of progamers in Korea. I mean, 7 KeSPA teams and even more eSF teams? That's hundreds of progamers in a scene that really can't support it... Why isn't that type of investment sustainable for Blizzard? You do know that they make BILLIONS of dollars annually from World of Warcraft alone? Blizzard can make two in-game pets for Warcraft and generate the extra income to inject this type of money into whatever they want. Mike Morhaime has publicly stated that Starcraft is his favorite Blizzard franchise, it isn't beyond the realm of possibility that the acting CEO and co-founder of Blizzard wants to use some of what they're making to try and take Starcraft to a new level. Blizzard sponsoring eSports so that their own brand and title becomes even larger as a result? For basically pennies compared to their total annual revenue? I understand the amount of money Blizzard makes. I don't see their investments in eSports being profitable. I don't see SC2 ever becoming what LoL is in Korea right now. I just think that they need to pull something else out of the hat if they want SC2 to succeed.
As far as eSports profitability, I don't want to claim to be an expert about how the KeSPA teams are ran or what their business models are like, but investments into a pro-team or league may not be for short-term monetary gain. Things like reputation and brand recognition are very, very important to companies.
I recently spend over a thousand dollars purchasing new washing and drying machines. I had a choice between very similarly priced and functional Kenmore and LG machines. I purchased the LG machine, emailed LG a photo of myself, my receipt and my products and let them know I made the choice to purchase from them instead of Kenmore because I was more familiar and comfortable with their brand due to their sponsorship for team IM. Same thing for a few Blu-Ray players that I bought over the holidays, photo and email.
It probably makes a difference that people like myself might choose them over competitors because of their sponsorships of eSports teams, and maybe somebody important will see that email and pass it along so that they know they're getting at least a part of their investment back through brand recognition.
If I'd never been into eSports, I probably would have chosen those Kenmore. If LG's products are amazing, I will continue to purchase them. That's what the humongous companies are getting out of their investments. Maybe Blizzard is looking into getting more brand recognition by unifying the scene or sponsoring these tournaments.
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it is kinda interesting to me that i've heard quite a lot of talk of how a foreigner league (GSL style) could maybe work and that it would be great for the scene (i.e. Artosis and others discussing it on SotG, also on ITG etc as well as in this thread) and now this vague news comes along. it does appear to be focused on Korea, but maybe they do have something like that in mind? if Blizzard is willing to invest 2 million dollars in the Korean scene, why not invest money in the foreign scene as well? for NA they could collaborate with NASL to make it bigger, truly NA-based and offline and have all the games happen in some place that either already has a big studio or allows for one to be set up and perhaps has rather cheap living conditions etc (i'm thinking Arizona cause EG, but could be elsewhere ofc). for EU i would imagine Germany (maybe something with TakeTV) or Sweden would be the best places. but that's just wishful thinking of course.
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opterown
Australia54748 Posts
gomchung deleted his happy-sounding post over at reddit, hrm
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On March 25 2013 19:18 opterown wrote:
gomchung deleted his happy-sounding post over at reddit, hrm
What did his post say?
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opterown
Australia54748 Posts
On March 25 2013 19:21 Lunareste wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2013 19:18 opterown wrote:
gomchung deleted his happy-sounding post over at reddit, hrm What did his post say?
something like ":D let the speculation begin" or something like that
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Nuuuu mvp was not seeded and now if they merge the leagues his chances of winning a 5th gsl are diminishing.QQ
Oh w8 it's a rumour i am dumb.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On March 25 2013 18:23 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Without directly agreeing or disagreeing with what is going on here, and without immediately judging one party or the other for doing a good job, Korea has too much of everything. If Korea can become more focused then in theory that should be really good for our scene.
Nazgul so biased.
I hope whatever they do it doesn't harm PL, cause that would be shitty, poor parting 
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hm, okay. We got information that something is about to happen. We still don't know what exactly it will be or how big it will be or what effects it may have on the Kespa-OGN-GSL-Blizzard-relationship. We don't know if there were further negotiations and we don't know how exactly some of the negotiations went in the first place.
I guess I'll keep my opinion back until we have more information.
The only thing we know so far is that something different is about to happen in Korean SC2 Esports
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Ugh I hope they don't make it region based. Foreigners don't deserve to be in the top 32 players. I want to seethe best 32 and that's it. Going to be disgusted if they replace the gsl with something like wcs
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Time will tell if this decision is good or bad for the SC2 scene
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opterown
Australia54748 Posts
On March 25 2013 20:00 Whiplash wrote:
Time will tell if this decision is good or bad for the SC2 scene
ooh how cryptic
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EPT
