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This is a blog about "getting visuals." It has nothing to do with drugs.
When you think of something ("think of an apple!").......... is any part of this phenomenon visual? Do you see an apple? Until I was 23, I did not understand that I was at least somewhat unusual, in that I cannot.
How many of you can do this?
If you don't really know what I'm talking about, that probably means you can't do it. When people can't, they always say "uh... maybe... well, what do you mean exactly?" When people can, they always say "oh, yeah, of course."
I've never really realized what people meant when they would watch a movie based on a book and remark "yeah, that's what I thought he'd look like." I would only have been able to say, "yes, that looks like someone the character in the book could be." Of course I did not consider the matter in these terms.
To be sure, I had heard some astrological mumblings* of "The Theory of Multiple Intelligences", with their "visual learners" and other strange bestiary inhabitants. This was not a thing I took enormously seriously. I assumed that "visual learners" would do the same kinds of things that I did when I thought about pictures, only obviously way better.
I realized the fact that most other people could do something which I never imagined was possible, after 23 years, one day when my (ex-)girlfriend was reading aloud to me. I remarked that I did not particularly like listening to books being read aloud, because it was like reading, but slower. She replied that it meant that you could spend more time imagining the scene. Confusion ensued.
I still don't REALLY believe that other people can do this.
*The poet Horace advises that we "try not the Babylonian numerology" (nec Babylonios/ temptaris numeros. Carmina 1.11, 2-3). Well taken, Flaccus.
  
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Imagining a visual object when thinking about something is a choice. It takes longer to do than just relate to the word and it's meaning. That's probably why your girlfriend told you, that reading a book out loud gives you more time, so you can imagine things better and better (visually).
You might never have been able to do this (as you said), but I feel sad for you nonetheless. Imagination is a beautiful thing, especially if you can really create things visually inside your brain.
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yeah it blows. But how much can I feel bad about something I didn't miss until I accidentally found out it was missing?
This is what Lacan means when he says that the object of desire emerges as lack.
And I have to wonder. What other things are there, out there in the Real, waiting to emerge as lack?
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Oh whoa, that's interesting >__<
I think Gardner does have a point there, but psychology is definitely a particularly confuzzled field 
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Do I see an apple? Of course I do, but the apple I see is the kind in baby picture books. + Show Spoiler +
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On January 25 2013 17:42 sam!zdat wrote:
yeah it blows. But how much can I feel bad about something I didn't miss until I accidentally found out it was missing?
This is what Lacan means when he says that the object of desire emerges as lack.
And I have to wonder. What other things are there, out there in the Real, waiting to emerge as lack?
Hmm. my question is what does this mean for your dreams? Do you "see" things in your dreams? I mean, it is utilizing the same idea of images without sight. I personally remember very very few dreams, i go to sleep then wake up like only a second had passed 99% of the time, but when I do remember my dreams they are very vivid.
When I am imagining something, its never a crystal clear image in my mind, which I assume is normal. If i think about an apple, i can imagine all of the parts, the colors, the form, but I don't have any kind of apple stamped on the back of my eyelids, its like a hint of the image, and everything that i associate with it. when i read about a character, i get an idea of what they look like (depending on the author) but they don't become some full color living person in my mind.
Personally, I think the world is just too busy. even imagining an apple, is like its coated in grease and constantly trying to slip away. but with the fast paced noisy environment that we live in where there is always something else to distract us, i think its a symptom of our lifestyles. My suggestion is take 10 minutes where you aren't listening to the television, radio, anything, and just close your eyes and think of anything, train your mind. In general I think everyone could use a few minutes of quiet per day.
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Wait, what? You literally don't imagine an apple when you're told to think about one? That blows my mind. Obviously it's not like I have a photograph of an apple in my mind, but I definitely see it. It's more like squinting. Focus on parts of it and they become detailed.
I can't even imagine how you can think about anything without having any form of "visual sense" of it, what's left?
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Interesting. Makes me wonder, do you think in words or images? By which I mean, if you were to think about doing something, is it a visual process (video like) or is it more of an articulated thought? (Thinking in language, as if you were talking.)
I can think of something visually, but it's usually not something that I do in a situation like the one you present. The visual or appearance of a concrete object is connected to my identification of an object, but may or may not be immediately present when thinking or discussing it. For example, when I think about my car, I don't see my car in my mind - unless I make a conscious effort to do so. And for any identifier indicating a non-concrete subject (for example, think of love, hate, compassion, peace, etc.) there usually isn't a visual related to it.
... Other thought, what are you dreams like?
Also, now that I'm thinking about it, I'm starting to wonder about visuals. On the other hand, when I'm reading a good or engaging piece of fiction, I have a fuzzy idea of what things look like as I read them. But I can be completely oblivious to anything else around me while doing so. (IE, I know roughly what I think Harry Dresden looks like. I can't picture his face, but the broad strokes are there. And if you bring up the Dresden Files TV show, I will punch something.)
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So can you even draw? I mean, let's say you're in an empty room and you're told to draw an apple... how can you do that if you can't visualize objects mentally?
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On January 25 2013 18:57 Tobberoth wrote:
So can you even draw? I mean, let's say you're in an empty room and you're told to draw an apple... how can you do that if you can't visualize objects mentally?
well the way I would do it is know the shape I'm supposed to draw, start drawing it on the page, and then add to it as takes shape. A very natural, flowing process of constant editing and re-editing, instead of a predetermined idea put to form.
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On January 25 2013 19:10 Fishgle wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 18:57 Tobberoth wrote:
So can you even draw? I mean, let's say you're in an empty room and you're told to draw an apple... how can you do that if you can't visualize objects mentally? well the way I would do it is know the shape I'm supposed to draw, start drawing it on the page, and then add to it as takes shape. A very natural, flowing process of constant editing and re-editing, instead of a predetermined idea put to form.
What shape are you supposed to draw? How can you imagine a shape without actually imagining it?
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hahah tobberoth hehe tobberoth :D bringing it to the point that counts. Imagination is visualizing knownledge and saved pictures we once took. This can be done in direct manner (the one red apple I ate when I was told to but didn't want to as a kid) or another one (combining known facts and saved pictures to create a new type of apple). So generally, everyone that tells me that he is not able to visualize things he thinks about somehow has a wrong or lets say rather different view of wording than others. Visualizing and halluzinations (controlled ones) is a hell of a difference which most people even don't know. To the blog writer I got a little hint. You can empower such visualizing / halluzinations while getting into sleep mode. Obviously this doesn't work that good when you are already tired and ready to sleep for real. You can try this in the afternoon. Give your head a message: I will not sleep for 30 minutes. I'm probably going to visualize / halluzinate about things in the mid of this time. Therefor I try to focus with my brain on this. You will end up being right in front of your sleeping mode but still with a full mind. Then you will start really seeing things you imagine. If you do this for some time you actually CAN visualize thoughts into halluzinations/dreams  . If you still think it is a hoax or whatever you can try to remember situations where you were really tired and things went akward within your brain
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I'm sorry you can't imagine apples.
Reminded me a bit of the section in the book "Blink" where they observe the autistic person observe a play and the gestures and expressions the actors convey are vital to the dialouge but instead you'd find the autist looking around at the scenery and not understanding what was going on.
On January 25 2013 18:57 Tobberoth wrote:
So can you even draw? I mean, let's say you're in an empty room and you're told to draw an apple... how can you do that if you can't visualize objects mentally?
I don't need to visualize apples to draw them. You can still imagine them because they can be broken into general forms.
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On January 25 2013 19:43 YoucriedWolf wrote:I'm sorry you can't imagine apples. Reminded me a bit of the section in the book "Blink" where they observe the autistic person observe a play and the gestures and expressions the actors convey are vital to the dialouge but instead you'd find the autist looking around at the scenery and not understanding what was going on. Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 18:57 Tobberoth wrote:
So can you even draw? I mean, let's say you're in an empty room and you're told to draw an apple... how can you do that if you can't visualize objects mentally? I don't need to visualize apples to draw them. You can still imagine them because they can be broken into general forms.
Sure, but you have to imagine the apple to break it up, unless you have an apple in front of you.
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this is the difference between people who like reading books and cant.
I can visualise things with ease given a description (or if its basic enough like an apple) so i love to read, i have a friend who cant do this at all and hates reading.
Its an interesting subject
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On January 25 2013 20:30 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 19:43 YoucriedWolf wrote:I'm sorry you can't imagine apples. Reminded me a bit of the section in the book "Blink" where they observe the autistic person observe a play and the gestures and expressions the actors convey are vital to the dialouge but instead you'd find the autist looking around at the scenery and not understanding what was going on. On January 25 2013 18:57 Tobberoth wrote:
So can you even draw? I mean, let's say you're in an empty room and you're told to draw an apple... how can you do that if you can't visualize objects mentally? I don't need to visualize apples to draw them. You can still imagine them because they can be broken into general forms. Sure, but you have to imagine the apple to break it up, unless you have an apple in front of you.
I think there is a distinct difference between imagining and visualizing in this particular discussion. I'm convinced the subconscious can store these forms and patterns in whatever algorithms they function under. If you've even been influenced by DMT (aayee did this take a right turn) you get a good hint of a subconscious pattern processing that's always there but you don't have any active perception of. You could even make the case that all of these shapes are right in front of you even if I don't think you have to (You would still have your hands etc to look at).
Archetypal psychology talks about another way for the brain to subconsciously store perception. There are lots of ways for the brain to imagine things that we can't visualize.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
I think my head works super strangely. I can work out complex abstract problems in my head but can't visualise something as simple as an apple. The way people's brains can work so differently from one another is fascinating.
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I think this kind of mental capacity would require an ounce of creativity on the individuals part, in that you would have to make creative decisions to recreate that image in your head based upon the information that you've been given. As someone who's always been a strong visual learner and a composer I have no problem constructing things solely in my head, so, yes I can picture it.
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I typically don't picture things, but I can if I want to (it's just slower).
If you tell me to imagine an apple, I hold the concept of "apple" in my mind. I know what apples are, and I can load those memories into RAM, per se. If you ask me questions about the apple in my mind, like what shape it is and what color it is and what happens if you throw it at the wall, I'll call up answers according to how I've learned what typical apples are like, *not* how I think that particular imaginary apple I just conjured up is like. I imagine "apple", rather than imagining an apple. Given that I'm a grad student working in pure math, this is a useful way of thinking; the vast majority of the objects I spend my day thinking about are not physical objects, and most of them don't really lend themselves well to geometric visualizations at all.
Perplexingly, I am definitely not an auditory learner, I need to look at things written down to process them efficiently. Audiobooks are incredibly difficult for me to follow, but it's not an attention span issue -- I'll read for up to 8 hours continuously if I'm into it. Typically when I'm reading a novel, I'll only visually "picture" a broad overview of the scene, like where characters are located in a room relative to each other, the same way you would mentally track nearby NPCs in an FPS, and then I'll clearly project the characters' voices into my head for dialog. Every so often I'll visualize a still image of a scene in detail, but it's not like books are a movie in my head.
tl;dr: When I imagine things, I call up sort of a conceptual wireframe which is just a bunch of background knowledge about what those those things are typically like. I can visualize detailed images when I want to, like if a scene in a book is really awesome and I want to savor it, but I usually don't bother. I learn best by reading things, but the only things I consistently imagine in true-to-life detail are sounds. When I write, there's a voice in my head that narrates (in a distinctly different "tone of voice" than that of my normal internal musings), and I write that speech down, rewinding and editing it as needed.
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Woah, yeah, that's really strange. I couldn't imagine that. Just as an exercise, I conjured up the word apple in my head and was immediately hit with four different senses. I saw an apple, and then a half apple (skinned). At the same time, I remembered the smell and taste of the apple and then the crunchy texture as I bit into it and a tiny trickle of apple juice streamed into my mouth. And then I got really hungry and wanted to eat an apple.
I couldn't for the life of me imagine what it would be like to just hear apple and not think anything other than the word apple. I mean, I can even visualize the letters of the word apple as big 3-D objects with a crushed velvet texture.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.naturalhealth365.com/images/apple.jpg)
