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This is a blog about "getting visuals." It has nothing to do with drugs.
When you think of something ("think of an apple!").......... is any part of this phenomenon visual? Do you see an apple? Until I was 23, I did not understand that I was at least somewhat unusual, in that I cannot.
How many of you can do this?
If you don't really know what I'm talking about, that probably means you can't do it. When people can't, they always say "uh... maybe... well, what do you mean exactly?" When people can, they always say "oh, yeah, of course."
I've never really realized what people meant when they would watch a movie based on a book and remark "yeah, that's what I thought he'd look like." I would only have been able to say, "yes, that looks like someone the character in the book could be." Of course I did not consider the matter in these terms.
To be sure, I had heard some astrological mumblings* of "The Theory of Multiple Intelligences", with their "visual learners" and other strange bestiary inhabitants. This was not a thing I took enormously seriously. I assumed that "visual learners" would do the same kinds of things that I did when I thought about pictures, only obviously way better.
I realized the fact that most other people could do something which I never imagined was possible, after 23 years, one day when my (ex-)girlfriend was reading aloud to me. I remarked that I did not particularly like listening to books being read aloud, because it was like reading, but slower. She replied that it meant that you could spend more time imagining the scene. Confusion ensued.
I still don't REALLY believe that other people can do this.
*The poet Horace advises that we "try not the Babylonian numerology" (nec Babylonios/ temptaris numeros. Carmina 1.11, 2-3). Well taken, Flaccus.
  
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Imagining a visual object when thinking about something is a choice. It takes longer to do than just relate to the word and it's meaning. That's probably why your girlfriend told you, that reading a book out loud gives you more time, so you can imagine things better and better (visually).
You might never have been able to do this (as you said), but I feel sad for you nonetheless. Imagination is a beautiful thing, especially if you can really create things visually inside your brain.
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yeah it blows. But how much can I feel bad about something I didn't miss until I accidentally found out it was missing?
This is what Lacan means when he says that the object of desire emerges as lack.
And I have to wonder. What other things are there, out there in the Real, waiting to emerge as lack?
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Oh whoa, that's interesting >__<
I think Gardner does have a point there, but psychology is definitely a particularly confuzzled field 
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Do I see an apple? Of course I do, but the apple I see is the kind in baby picture books. + Show Spoiler +
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On January 25 2013 17:42 sam!zdat wrote:
yeah it blows. But how much can I feel bad about something I didn't miss until I accidentally found out it was missing?
This is what Lacan means when he says that the object of desire emerges as lack.
And I have to wonder. What other things are there, out there in the Real, waiting to emerge as lack?
Hmm. my question is what does this mean for your dreams? Do you "see" things in your dreams? I mean, it is utilizing the same idea of images without sight. I personally remember very very few dreams, i go to sleep then wake up like only a second had passed 99% of the time, but when I do remember my dreams they are very vivid.
When I am imagining something, its never a crystal clear image in my mind, which I assume is normal. If i think about an apple, i can imagine all of the parts, the colors, the form, but I don't have any kind of apple stamped on the back of my eyelids, its like a hint of the image, and everything that i associate with it. when i read about a character, i get an idea of what they look like (depending on the author) but they don't become some full color living person in my mind.
Personally, I think the world is just too busy. even imagining an apple, is like its coated in grease and constantly trying to slip away. but with the fast paced noisy environment that we live in where there is always something else to distract us, i think its a symptom of our lifestyles. My suggestion is take 10 minutes where you aren't listening to the television, radio, anything, and just close your eyes and think of anything, train your mind. In general I think everyone could use a few minutes of quiet per day.
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Wait, what? You literally don't imagine an apple when you're told to think about one? That blows my mind. Obviously it's not like I have a photograph of an apple in my mind, but I definitely see it. It's more like squinting. Focus on parts of it and they become detailed.
I can't even imagine how you can think about anything without having any form of "visual sense" of it, what's left?
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Interesting. Makes me wonder, do you think in words or images? By which I mean, if you were to think about doing something, is it a visual process (video like) or is it more of an articulated thought? (Thinking in language, as if you were talking.)
I can think of something visually, but it's usually not something that I do in a situation like the one you present. The visual or appearance of a concrete object is connected to my identification of an object, but may or may not be immediately present when thinking or discussing it. For example, when I think about my car, I don't see my car in my mind - unless I make a conscious effort to do so. And for any identifier indicating a non-concrete subject (for example, think of love, hate, compassion, peace, etc.) there usually isn't a visual related to it.
... Other thought, what are you dreams like?
Also, now that I'm thinking about it, I'm starting to wonder about visuals. On the other hand, when I'm reading a good or engaging piece of fiction, I have a fuzzy idea of what things look like as I read them. But I can be completely oblivious to anything else around me while doing so. (IE, I know roughly what I think Harry Dresden looks like. I can't picture his face, but the broad strokes are there. And if you bring up the Dresden Files TV show, I will punch something.)
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So can you even draw? I mean, let's say you're in an empty room and you're told to draw an apple... how can you do that if you can't visualize objects mentally?
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On January 25 2013 18:57 Tobberoth wrote:
So can you even draw? I mean, let's say you're in an empty room and you're told to draw an apple... how can you do that if you can't visualize objects mentally?
well the way I would do it is know the shape I'm supposed to draw, start drawing it on the page, and then add to it as takes shape. A very natural, flowing process of constant editing and re-editing, instead of a predetermined idea put to form.
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On January 25 2013 19:10 Fishgle wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 18:57 Tobberoth wrote:
So can you even draw? I mean, let's say you're in an empty room and you're told to draw an apple... how can you do that if you can't visualize objects mentally? well the way I would do it is know the shape I'm supposed to draw, start drawing it on the page, and then add to it as takes shape. A very natural, flowing process of constant editing and re-editing, instead of a predetermined idea put to form.
What shape are you supposed to draw? How can you imagine a shape without actually imagining it?
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hahah tobberoth hehe tobberoth :D bringing it to the point that counts. Imagination is visualizing knownledge and saved pictures we once took. This can be done in direct manner (the one red apple I ate when I was told to but didn't want to as a kid) or another one (combining known facts and saved pictures to create a new type of apple). So generally, everyone that tells me that he is not able to visualize things he thinks about somehow has a wrong or lets say rather different view of wording than others. Visualizing and halluzinations (controlled ones) is a hell of a difference which most people even don't know. To the blog writer I got a little hint. You can empower such visualizing / halluzinations while getting into sleep mode. Obviously this doesn't work that good when you are already tired and ready to sleep for real. You can try this in the afternoon. Give your head a message: I will not sleep for 30 minutes. I'm probably going to visualize / halluzinate about things in the mid of this time. Therefor I try to focus with my brain on this. You will end up being right in front of your sleeping mode but still with a full mind. Then you will start really seeing things you imagine. If you do this for some time you actually CAN visualize thoughts into halluzinations/dreams  . If you still think it is a hoax or whatever you can try to remember situations where you were really tired and things went akward within your brain
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I'm sorry you can't imagine apples.
Reminded me a bit of the section in the book "Blink" where they observe the autistic person observe a play and the gestures and expressions the actors convey are vital to the dialouge but instead you'd find the autist looking around at the scenery and not understanding what was going on.
On January 25 2013 18:57 Tobberoth wrote:
So can you even draw? I mean, let's say you're in an empty room and you're told to draw an apple... how can you do that if you can't visualize objects mentally?
I don't need to visualize apples to draw them. You can still imagine them because they can be broken into general forms.
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On January 25 2013 19:43 YoucriedWolf wrote:I'm sorry you can't imagine apples. Reminded me a bit of the section in the book "Blink" where they observe the autistic person observe a play and the gestures and expressions the actors convey are vital to the dialouge but instead you'd find the autist looking around at the scenery and not understanding what was going on. Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 18:57 Tobberoth wrote:
So can you even draw? I mean, let's say you're in an empty room and you're told to draw an apple... how can you do that if you can't visualize objects mentally? I don't need to visualize apples to draw them. You can still imagine them because they can be broken into general forms.
Sure, but you have to imagine the apple to break it up, unless you have an apple in front of you.
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this is the difference between people who like reading books and cant.
I can visualise things with ease given a description (or if its basic enough like an apple) so i love to read, i have a friend who cant do this at all and hates reading.
Its an interesting subject
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On January 25 2013 20:30 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 19:43 YoucriedWolf wrote:I'm sorry you can't imagine apples. Reminded me a bit of the section in the book "Blink" where they observe the autistic person observe a play and the gestures and expressions the actors convey are vital to the dialouge but instead you'd find the autist looking around at the scenery and not understanding what was going on. On January 25 2013 18:57 Tobberoth wrote:
So can you even draw? I mean, let's say you're in an empty room and you're told to draw an apple... how can you do that if you can't visualize objects mentally? I don't need to visualize apples to draw them. You can still imagine them because they can be broken into general forms. Sure, but you have to imagine the apple to break it up, unless you have an apple in front of you.
I think there is a distinct difference between imagining and visualizing in this particular discussion. I'm convinced the subconscious can store these forms and patterns in whatever algorithms they function under. If you've even been influenced by DMT (aayee did this take a right turn) you get a good hint of a subconscious pattern processing that's always there but you don't have any active perception of. You could even make the case that all of these shapes are right in front of you even if I don't think you have to (You would still have your hands etc to look at).
Archetypal psychology talks about another way for the brain to subconsciously store perception. There are lots of ways for the brain to imagine things that we can't visualize.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
I think my head works super strangely. I can work out complex abstract problems in my head but can't visualise something as simple as an apple. The way people's brains can work so differently from one another is fascinating.
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I think this kind of mental capacity would require an ounce of creativity on the individuals part, in that you would have to make creative decisions to recreate that image in your head based upon the information that you've been given. As someone who's always been a strong visual learner and a composer I have no problem constructing things solely in my head, so, yes I can picture it.
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I typically don't picture things, but I can if I want to (it's just slower).
If you tell me to imagine an apple, I hold the concept of "apple" in my mind. I know what apples are, and I can load those memories into RAM, per se. If you ask me questions about the apple in my mind, like what shape it is and what color it is and what happens if you throw it at the wall, I'll call up answers according to how I've learned what typical apples are like, *not* how I think that particular imaginary apple I just conjured up is like. I imagine "apple", rather than imagining an apple. Given that I'm a grad student working in pure math, this is a useful way of thinking; the vast majority of the objects I spend my day thinking about are not physical objects, and most of them don't really lend themselves well to geometric visualizations at all.
Perplexingly, I am definitely not an auditory learner, I need to look at things written down to process them efficiently. Audiobooks are incredibly difficult for me to follow, but it's not an attention span issue -- I'll read for up to 8 hours continuously if I'm into it. Typically when I'm reading a novel, I'll only visually "picture" a broad overview of the scene, like where characters are located in a room relative to each other, the same way you would mentally track nearby NPCs in an FPS, and then I'll clearly project the characters' voices into my head for dialog. Every so often I'll visualize a still image of a scene in detail, but it's not like books are a movie in my head.
tl;dr: When I imagine things, I call up sort of a conceptual wireframe which is just a bunch of background knowledge about what those those things are typically like. I can visualize detailed images when I want to, like if a scene in a book is really awesome and I want to savor it, but I usually don't bother. I learn best by reading things, but the only things I consistently imagine in true-to-life detail are sounds. When I write, there's a voice in my head that narrates (in a distinctly different "tone of voice" than that of my normal internal musings), and I write that speech down, rewinding and editing it as needed.
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Woah, yeah, that's really strange. I couldn't imagine that. Just as an exercise, I conjured up the word apple in my head and was immediately hit with four different senses. I saw an apple, and then a half apple (skinned). At the same time, I remembered the smell and taste of the apple and then the crunchy texture as I bit into it and a tiny trickle of apple juice streamed into my mouth. And then I got really hungry and wanted to eat an apple.
I couldn't for the life of me imagine what it would be like to just hear apple and not think anything other than the word apple. I mean, I can even visualize the letters of the word apple as big 3-D objects with a crushed velvet texture.
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I can imagine sounds and scenes and pictures and all kinds of things that sometimes I have to shrugg them off or sometimes I just lay around doing nothing and I get ideas for a song, or the whole song just gets conjured in my head.
And my imagination is too strong that I absolutely must not do anything too mind consuming before sleeping or my mind with me bombarding me with images and I can't sleep. It's really irritating.
However it feels really cool when I get to hear some songs out of nowhere (which started before I started learning music) but I usually forget how it went once I wake up =(
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I don't 'see' anything. Not even, if I try hard and if I close my eyes. I tried 'pig', and really reached for it. The closest I came was a dark, oblong shape and the concept of a pig, but nowhere near a pig-visual.
And I find audiobooks boring as hell.
And I generally skim over descriptions of scenery in books.
And I don't get upset over movies vs. books from the looks.
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Gee, I wonder how playing RPGs such as Dungeons and Dragons must feel like.
So quick question, do you have any fantasies at all? When I was younger, and even still to some extent to this day, I would fantasize about a specific scenario through masturbation, I would often imagine scenarios visually with my eyes closed, and God knows how I would enjoy any books at all without being able to visualize in such a manner.
And speaking of books, I finished Salaried Masses and Worker's Council, sorry for not being on Skype as of late 
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On January 26 2013 03:16 Shiragaku wrote:Gee, I wonder how playing RPGs such as Dungeons and Dragons must feel like. So quick question, do you have any fantasies at all? When I was younger, and even still to some extent to this day, I would fantasize about a specific scenario through masturbation, I would often imagine scenarios visually with my eyes closed, and God knows how I would enjoy any books at all without being able to visualize in such a manner. And speaking of books, I finished Salaried Masses and Worker's Council, sorry for not being on Skype as of late
Woah, that's pretty cool. You used to masturbate to D&D? Which was more your thing? The dwarves or the illithids? Although, I find it mildly disturbing that the only way you could enjoy books was through sexual means. They're still pretty good if you're not jacking off, IMHO.
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On January 26 2013 03:34 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2013 03:16 Shiragaku wrote:Gee, I wonder how playing RPGs such as Dungeons and Dragons must feel like. So quick question, do you have any fantasies at all? When I was younger, and even still to some extent to this day, I would fantasize about a specific scenario through masturbation, I would often imagine scenarios visually with my eyes closed, and God knows how I would enjoy any books at all without being able to visualize in such a manner. And speaking of books, I finished Salaried Masses and Worker's Council, sorry for not being on Skype as of late Woah, that's pretty cool. You used to masturbate to D&D? Which was more your thing? The dwarves or the illithids? Although, I find it mildly disturbing that the only way you could enjoy books was through sexual means. They're still pretty good if you're not jacking off, IMHO.
Okay, maybe I worded that wrong.
I meant fantasizing about anything, sexual or theoretical. For example, when I read a book, I enjoy imagining how the scenery looks.
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I'm not sure at what age it started, but I have a unique way of passing the time which revolves around my ability to "see" things in my minds eye. I spent a great deal of my childhood a passenger, a watcher and imaginer of that which passes by. Perhaps it had something to do with my unchecked juvenile ADHD, but I could not help but construct an imagistic journey of sorts in my mind as my father took me along to work. I was drawing maps you see, maps of the places I've been, or perhaps the better way to put it would be to say that I drew maps of the places I've been through. In any case, I can tell you that I've quite a few maps stored away up here, and whenever I need to waste some time, I'll think of a starting point, be it The East of Chicago pizza joint down the street from where I used to live in Toledo, OH or the infamous Breezewood Pennsylvania Turnpike rest stop we'd always pass on the way to visit my grandparents in Virginia, and I'll "go for a ride" as I like to call it, attempting to fill in as many visual details as possible as the road stretches onward, as though I were still a passenger in a car, simply along for the ride. If I am feeling particularly lucid, I can draw up some fairly extensive maps, with my record iirc being around the 500 miles or so between Toledo, OH and Reston, VA I dreamt up one day while, surprise surprise, visiting my father's work.
If I could not "go for a ride" in my head I'm sure I'd come up with some sort of different imagination strategy for passing the time, but what's funny is that I am not really a visual learner. I require utterances, usually of the verbal kind, for real learning progress, and the visualization aspect is more icing rather than cake; a game that can add a bit of spice to an otherwise potentially drab line of inquiry.
Can you hear melody and harmony, Sam? I only ask because suddenly your enjoyment of stuff like downtown music is beginning to make a lot more sense, as I firmly believe that aural and visual imagination can be quite related.
In any case, "gorgeous brunette, pouty lips, intense eyes." Nothin? Sucks for you dude
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On January 25 2013 18:42 HotShizz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 17:42 sam!zdat wrote:
yeah it blows. But how much can I feel bad about something I didn't miss until I accidentally found out it was missing?
This is what Lacan means when he says that the object of desire emerges as lack.
And I have to wonder. What other things are there, out there in the Real, waiting to emerge as lack? Hmm. my question is what does this mean for your dreams? Do you "see" things in your dreams? I mean, it is utilizing the same idea of images without sight. I personally remember very very few dreams, i go to sleep then wake up like only a second had passed 99% of the time, but when I do remember my dreams they are very vivid.
When I'm dreaming I don't notice that I can't see things, I'm not really sure. But I don't wake up with strong visual impressions from dreams - more emotional. But I'm not really sure - I don't remember my dreams very well.
When I am imagining something, its never a crystal clear image in my mind, which I assume is normal. If i think about an apple, i can imagine all of the parts, the colors, the form, but I don't have any kind of apple stamped on the back of my eyelids, its like a hint of the image, and everything that i associate with it. when i read about a character, i get an idea of what they look like (depending on the author) but they don't become some full color living person in my mind.
I don't even think I get hints of images
Personally, I think the world is just too busy.
Haha, well THAT's certainly true but I don't think that's why my brainz are deformed.
On January 25 2013 18:50 Tobberoth wrote:
Wait, what? You literally don't imagine an apple when you're told to think about one? That blows my mind. Obviously it's not like I have a photograph of an apple in my mind, but I definitely see it. It's more like squinting. Focus on parts of it and they become detailed.
I can't even imagine how you can think about anything without having any form of "visual sense" of it, what's left?
It blows my mind that you CAN.
What's left is pretty much just words, I think. I can think about geometry but only with concepts. I can't place all 50 states on a map - I have a really hard time with geography.
On January 25 2013 18:56 felisconcolori wrote:
Interesting. Makes me wonder, do you think in words or images? By which I mean, if you were to think about doing something, is it a visual process (video like) or is it more of an articulated thought? (Thinking in language, as if you were talking.)
words, words, words.
On January 25 2013 18:57 Tobberoth wrote:
So can you even draw? I mean, let's say you're in an empty room and you're told to draw an apple... how can you do that if you can't visualize objects mentally?
I'm very bad at drawing. I understand the shape of an apple conceptually, but putting it on paper is another matter.
On January 25 2013 19:43 YoucriedWolf wrote:
I'm sorry you can't imagine apples.
Reminded me a bit of the section in the book "Blink" where they observe the autistic person observe a play and the gestures and expressions the actors convey are vital to the dialouge but instead you'd find the autist looking around at the scenery and not understanding what was going on.
That's how I feel when I've been unfortunately enough to be in a "guided meditation" and they say "open your mind's eye to..." I just have to sit there and listen to hippies ramble about shit. I also don't like Romantic poets (endless descriptions of nature do absolutely nothing for me).
On January 25 2013 20:30 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 19:43 YoucriedWolf wrote:I'm sorry you can't imagine apples. Reminded me a bit of the section in the book "Blink" where they observe the autistic person observe a play and the gestures and expressions the actors convey are vital to the dialouge but instead you'd find the autist looking around at the scenery and not understanding what was going on. On January 25 2013 18:57 Tobberoth wrote:
So can you even draw? I mean, let's say you're in an empty room and you're told to draw an apple... how can you do that if you can't visualize objects mentally? I don't need to visualize apples to draw them. You can still imagine them because they can be broken into general forms. Sure, but you have to imagine the apple to break it up, unless you have an apple in front of you.
I think I have sort of a stored conceptual understanding of what apples are like. They have a little cleft chin at the bottom, they kinda curve up like a heart, and then there's a little leaf on the top.
On January 25 2013 21:24 Capped wrote:
this is the difference between people who like reading books and cant.
I can visualise things with ease given a description (or if its basic enough like an apple) so i love to read, i have a friend who cant do this at all and hates reading.
Its an interesting subject
I'm an obsessive reader, though...
On January 25 2013 22:36 wo1fwood wrote:
I think this kind of mental capacity would require an ounce of creativity on the individuals part, in that you would have to make creative decisions to recreate that image in your head based upon the information that you've been given. As someone who's always been a strong visual learner and a composer I have no problem constructing things solely in my head, so, yes I can picture it.
Haha well maybe the wizard will give me some creativity...
On January 25 2013 23:45 SamsungStar wrote:
Woah, yeah, that's really strange. I couldn't imagine that. Just as an exercise, I conjured up the word apple in my head and was immediately hit with four different senses. I saw an apple, and then a half apple (skinned). At the same time, I remembered the smell and taste of the apple and then the crunchy texture as I bit into it and a tiny trickle of apple juice streamed into my mouth. And then I got really hungry and wanted to eat an apple.
I couldn't for the life of me imagine what it would be like to just hear apple and not think anything other than the word apple. I mean, I can even visualize the letters of the word apple as big 3-D objects with a crushed velvet texture.
Whoa. My thinking doesn't really involve senses at all This is why I will never write realist fiction, I'm afraid (worse fates)
On January 26 2013 00:22 JieXian wrote:
However it feels really cool when I get to hear some songs out of nowhere (which started before I started learning music) but I usually forget how it went once I wake up =(
One of my musician friends gets auditory hallucinations. They cause him a bit of trouble, but I suppose genius has its costs
On January 26 2013 03:16 Shiragaku wrote:
Gee, I wonder how playing RPGs such as Dungeons and Dragons must feel like.
Haha yeah maybe if I could see stuff I wouldn't have been such a failure of a GM
So quick question, do you have any fantasies at all? When I was younger, and even still to some extent to this day, I would fantasize about a specific scenario through masturbation, I would often imagine scenarios visually with my eyes closed, and God knows how I would enjoy any books at all without being able to visualize in such a manner.
Not visual ones - it's pretty difficult for me to fantasize satisfactorily in this way (I think I would fantasize more about situations, rather than images). One time in high school, however, I had watched a bunch of porn and was in the shower when I suddenly had an impression of being able to "see" some of the pornography in my memory. Guess I must have found a short circuit into my visual brainz! That was a strange experience and it hasn't happened again.
And speaking of books, I finished Salaried Masses and Worker's Council, sorry for not being on Skype as of late :
Great! did you like it? What did you think?
On January 26 2013 03:34 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2013 03:16 Shiragaku wrote:Gee, I wonder how playing RPGs such as Dungeons and Dragons must feel like. So quick question, do you have any fantasies at all? When I was younger, and even still to some extent to this day, I would fantasize about a specific scenario through masturbation, I would often imagine scenarios visually with my eyes closed, and God knows how I would enjoy any books at all without being able to visualize in such a manner. And speaking of books, I finished Salaried Masses and Worker's Council, sorry for not being on Skype as of late Woah, that's pretty cool. You used to masturbate to D&D? Which was more your thing? The dwarves or the illithids? Although, I find it mildly disturbing that the only way you could enjoy books was through sexual means. They're still pretty good if you're not jacking off, IMHO.
LOL
On January 26 2013 04:20 farvacola wrote:
I'm not sure at what age it started, but I have a unique way of passing the time which revolves around my ability to "see" things in my minds eye. I spent a great deal of my childhood a passenger, a watcher and imaginer of that which passes by. Perhaps it had something to do with my unchecked juvenile ADHD, but I could not help but construct an imagistic journey of sorts in my mind as my father took me along to work. I was drawing maps you see, maps of the places I've been, or perhaps the better way to put it would be to say that I drew maps of the places I've been through. In any case, I can tell you that I've quite a few maps stored away up here, and whenever I need to waste some time, I'll think of a starting point, be it The East of Chicago pizza joint down the street from where I used to live in Toledo, OH or the infamous Breezewood Pennsylvania Turnpike rest stop we'd always pass on the way to visit my grandparents in Virginia, and I'll "go for a ride" as I like to call it, attempting to fill in as many visual details as possible as the road stretches onward, as though I were still a passenger in a car, simply along for the ride. If I am feeling particularly lucid, I can draw up some fairly extensive maps, with my record iirc being around the 500 miles or so between Toledo, OH and Reston, VA I dreamt up one day while, surprise surprise, visiting my father's work.
In Freshman Humanities there was a lecture about St. Augustine's "memory palace" which I couldn't possibly understand, it seemed like way more effort than just remembering stuff. I was totally mystified by that lecture. That's awesome though, you have an American Interstate System memory palace!
If I could not "go for a ride" in my head I'm sure I'd come up with some sort of different imagination strategy for passing the time, but what's funny is that I am not really a visual learner. I require utterances, usually of the verbal kind, for real learning progress, and the visualization aspect is more icing rather than cake; a game that can add a bit of spice to an otherwise potentially drab line of inquiry.
Can you hear melody and harmony, Sam? I only ask because suddenly your enjoyment of stuff like downtown music is beginning to make a lot more sense, as I firmly believe that aural and visual imagination can be quite related.
Yes, but only after working explicitly at this for a while. I had to put a great deal of conscious effort into acquiring any rhythm or sense of tone. My musicianship is adequate for garage band purposes, but entirely without soul I'm afraid
In any case, "gorgeous brunette, pouty lips, intense eyes." Nothin? Sucks for you dude
ikr. that does nothing for me. If you say she likes william gibson, though...
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What, this is so mind-blowing that I am wondering if there is something I misunderstand. You can actually see in detail, (and in case of SamsungStar) sense the object you are thinking about? Does it work like hallucination, so after you close your eyes and think about "apple" you can actually see an image of apple, with the colours and all?
So what I'm saying is, when I wrote dream diaries several years ago so I could recall them, there are lot of dreams I experienced in first person perspective which I can recall - "see" - some of them in vivid colourful detail. However that is completely different from imagining something from scratch during the waking state; rudimentary sketches are the best I can manage. So how detailed is this visual perception, and if it's life-like what is distinction from it and hallucination?
Edit: I re-read, and I know for certain that I am not in OP's camp since he cannot seem to think (or recall?) in terms of image at all, and that I overestimated some of the responses. but I might as well keep this post up since I am genuinely curious how good people are at imagining visual details.
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On January 26 2013 05:09 Hesmyrr wrote:
What, this is so mind-blowing that I am wondering if there is something I misunderstand. You can actually see in detail, (and in case of SamsungStar) sense the object you are thinking about? Does it work like hallucination, so after you close your eyes and think about "apple" you can actually see an image of apple, with the colours and all?
So what I'm saying is, when I wrote dream diaries several years ago so I could recall them, there are lot of dreams I experienced in first person perspective which I can recall - "see" - some of them in vivid colourful detail. However that is completely different from imagining something from scratch during the waking state; rudimentary sketches are the best I can manage. So how detailed is this visual perception, and if it's life-like what is distinction from it and hallucination?
Edit: I re-read, and I know for certain that I am not in OP's camp since he cannot seem to think (or recall?) in terms of image at all, but I might as well keep this post up since I am genuinely curious how good people are at imagining visual details.
I don't even need to close my eyes. I can simultaneously see the world around me with my eyes and visualize something else in my head. I can flicker through multiple different scenes, sequences, etc at one time. Although, my sense of present time and the imagination running through my head tend to swap focuses as I'm thinking. One moment, the chair I'm sitting in is more vivid, the next second the fantasy in my head has taken over my conscious thought. It's really just whichever way my brain happens to be tilting I guess, with my conscious will guiding it for the most part. Although, I've often found myself driving and just start brainstorming/daydreaming and totally fall into that world, and I sort of blink and come back to the real world to find myself sitting in my driveway or on the street very close to my house.
When it comes to the apple, I can zoom in on it so I see the dirt around the stem, the reddish-yellow pebbling of color on the skin, the uneven blotching of the wax coat, the roughened texture of the whitish flesh, the black seeds, pretty much anything and everything you could imagine when it comes to an apple. I can imagine baskets, an apple orchard, apple cider, apple sauce, the word itself evokes multiple images, and if I stop to really dwell on it, the word apple branches out into a ton of related pictures/senses/memories.
To be honest, there is not all that much distinction between imagination and reality for me, There is only a very slight disparity which creates a desire in me to recreate what I'm remembering/imagining in real life. But I can put it down as well and just move on to another thought/sensation etc. It's probably why I've always loved fantasy/SF and found the real world boring 95% of the time.
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Once upon a time, I thought in pictures. Then I thought in words. Then I thought in pictures again. Then I did both. Eventually, I got decently good at something, and for that I think in thought shapes, with visuals only sometimes, or when it is directly related to processing visual information. These shapes don't have an analog in nature, but it sure is fast and efficient. It's a sort of guidance that I'm molding and letting it influence me, and it's not necessarily limited to the typical mental space.
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Interesting! Recently read Benoit Mandelbrot's memoir, and he talks about visual thinking being key to his mathematical ability. Apparently he could sometimes solve complex problems visually that other mathematicians had great trouble with!
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On January 26 2013 05:09 Hesmyrr wrote:
What, this is so mind-blowing that I am wondering if there is something I misunderstand. You can actually see in detail, (and in case of SamsungStar) sense the object you are thinking about? Does it work like hallucination, so after you close your eyes and think about "apple" you can actually see an image of apple, with the colours and all?
So what I'm saying is, when I wrote dream diaries several years ago so I could recall them, there are lot of dreams I experienced in first person perspective which I can recall - "see" - some of them in vivid colourful detail. However that is completely different from imagining something from scratch during the waking state; rudimentary sketches are the best I can manage. So how detailed is this visual perception, and if it's life-like what is distinction from it and hallucination?
Edit: I re-read, and I know for certain that I am not in OP's camp since he cannot seem to think (or recall?) in terms of image at all, and that I overestimated some of the responses. but I might as well keep this post up since I am genuinely curious how good people are at imagining visual details.
Yea I do the same as SamsungStar). It is also possible to project images onto your vision. I've been training myself to do it off and on, at the moment I can only do wireframes of simple objects, but I can actually project it onto vision so that it appears in my visual field. Of course I can still tell it's a projection and not real because it doesn't quite have solidity. Think of it as the weak image of a laser that you are only barely seeing through parts of it that are reflected to your eyes by dust particles.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.naturalhealth365.com/images/apple.jpg)
