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Wow, it's been 4 months indeed. Last entry was a enormous needed vent, that couldnt contain even the quarter of what I was feeling at the time. Now I had two sets of holidays : the Toussaint at the end of october and the traditional Christmas holidays that finish tomorrow. Two needed pairs of weeks.
So what's new in the marvelous wonderful world of the teacher part of me ?
First, results : work has finally got in to me. Yay ! Wait, you need details. I already vented about how it was hard to sleep, how I was feeling bad for numerous reasons.
Now I simply just can't sleep during Sunday-Monday night. Just. Can't. Sleep.
From as soon as I go to bed, no matter how tired I am, my brain just won't let it go. Anytime I feel the expected arms of sleep calmly, gently, soflty driving me into the marvelous world of dreams, as I feel my mind drifting awaWAIT FUCK YOU BRO, YOU'LL MEET THE KIDS TOMORROW, BETTER THINK ABOUT IT SOME 2 HOURS MORE BECAUSE THEY WONT GIVE A FUCK ANYWAY. HERE, TAKE SOME CARDIAC EXPLOSION, A TORRENT OF SWEAT, AND WHAT ABOUT A LITTLE PANIC ATTACK SO YOU CAN'T EVEN STAY STILL IN BED AND YOUR WIFE HAS HER NIGHT FUCKED TOO. YEAH SOUNDS PRETTY NICE FUCKER. Repeat this process until 6:15 AM, when suddenly my brain acts like "ok good boy, time to get 15 minutes of sleep, so you are even more massively fucked when my good friend the alarm clock will spit her dirty shit in your stupid ears".
In case you didn't guess already, monday's lessons are godawful. Imagine a zombie as a teacher. Can you ? If you can, well gentleman, we have a problem : that cannot exist on this realm. A teacher without energy is like a torch without fire : a useless stick, standing in the dark. Don't even think about teaching skills there, they're from another world.
I never let a mental problem alone. I always fight it asap, trying to figure solutions and how to understand my mind. This is what I spent my entire week on. For the first time of my life, I was completely clueless. I felt bad. Actually, I don't why I use a past tense, because I still feel like shit. The second Sunday, I cried like 3 time in my bed. My wife waked up, tried to comfort me. I could'nt even talk. I was so afraid of something I couldn't name. She told me that I was afraid of sleeping because if I fell asleep, waking up would mean going to school.
Wait what did she just say ? What ? Me, afraid of...
My, my, my. What kind of a little pussy we have there. Afraid of kids. Afraid of being rejected constantly by a bunch of 35 kids. And fuck was she right. As soon as I realized that, it's like my brain underlined the problem and put it into the "TO BE SOLVED" box. I felt better, I even felt I could sleep... BUT WAIT YOU MORON, WE AREN'T DONE YET. HERE, TAKE SOME MORE I KNOW YOU LIKE THAT.
I'll try to resume the 5 weeks of "therapy" I did because blogs are not meant to be books. So I started to see a comportemental therapist and it kicked in like instantly. There is detailed a list nao :
Part A : Technical part
1) I am a perfectionist, with absurd expectations of his students. This is now an established fact, and I have at the moment no fucking clue on how to be different because it's like asking a chair to make some coffee. And when I see them at work it is a devastating blow in my mind any time I see "a dumb error" (you know, the absolutely-normal-for-first-year-in-highschool type of error.)
2) I worked hard to obtain mathematical skills, and my job asks me to learn on the field a enormous bunch of skills I do not naturally have and that I just don't give a fuck about, because it doesn't fit with what I've become and what I expect from my professional life. I use none of my mathematical skills, and I am so vastly overqualified that I don't even grasp the problem my students have.
3) There, you add a large bowl of culpability. I feel like a bad, very bad teacher. How can I properly teach math if I don't even understand my students and if it bores me to death ? Houston, we have a problem.
Part B : Body Part (haha)
1) I perfectly know my biggest problem with life : my self-confidence is near to non-existence. When I am in a good mood, something which is becoming rare, I know how much of a Bawss I can be.
2) You might have guessed if you're following correctly the topic here, that I'm not in a good mood this year. Not in a good mood mean also absolutely no fucking confidence in myself, my skill, my words, my body, add everything you want on the list, no trust in it. TOTAL ECLIPSE OF THE HEAAAART. When I am at my worst, I have negative confidence, meaning I think I am the badderest at things I perfectly KNOW I am good (sometime, gifted) at.
3) But no confidence in general life means no confidence at school and in front of kids, even more given part A. Kids are giant sponges : they know instinctively what you feel. They know some way to react, kids ways. So it asks me more energy to keep them with me for the lesson. Less energy = less success on easier things. Less success on easier things = less confidence. I hope you see pattern...
Part C : The Abyss
1) I fear rejection. Like the Great Plague. It's my deepest fear. All events in my life have deeply fixed this angst in my soul. And I can't fight it when I not "in a good mood". 4 years ago, this fear made a decisive victory against my legions. I don't want to speak about this, but I know why, I even know what to do to regain the upper hand. It's just... very very very non natural and difficult to accept, but I know that if I can do it, my life will be even better than it was before that... event.
2) I naturally tend to empathy. When you're a teacher, empathy is your biggest ally as well as your biggest ennemy. You understand your students better, but you touch their world. Kids just WAIT you to do this, because once they grab you into their world, they dismember you without any knowledge of doing so, and they reject you torn apart. Yeah they reject your being : you, the teacher. Not you the person.
3) But I didn't use the word "reject" for nothing. I feel rejected. Constantly. As a teacher. But I am too inexperienced for the moment. I cannot separate the teacher from myself. So it is ME that is rejected. Did I mention I didn't like it ?
4) So remember there that I have two class. One is a normal, nice, bunch of kids that understand why they are supposed to do in school. We have lots of laugh, we are working hard, they improve themselves, they like me, I like th.... Yep : feelings. Bad thing. Ishould not have those thoughts. I am emotionally attached to them, and if I learned (too late) someting this year :
YOU MUST NOT GET EMOTIONALLY INVOLVED WHEN YOU'RE A TEACHER.
Call it "THE BIG RULE. Frame it in red, overlign it with fire. This makes me think sometimes they are all geniuses, while they are in fact absolutely normal students. And guess what happen when I do some correction on their work : afgdjqlfjhfzjklernermjldkfjqmldfk HORRIBLE OH MY GOD I AM BAD AT TEACHING dfjkdmsfljdfkqjdsmlfkjqmdflkqjfdf.
5) Approaching the final paragraph of the list, I have to recall the other class. It takes its own story. This might be the most related paragraph to teaching of this entry. I even though about giving it its own entry.
This is the prototype of a hard class. 10 students are doubling. 25 come from foreign family (mostly Maghreb, but also Subsaharian Africa), and I have 35 pupils in this class which is quite a huge number, albeit a normal one actually in France. Parents are often not speaking a word of French. They have shitty jobs, shitty life, shitty appartments, at least 3 other kids. They can't properly take care of the education of their kids. I have one student who is 18 yo. I have two dyslexic students, and one dyspraxic or something. The general mean of the class was at the end of the first semester : 9/20. For a first year class in highschool in France, this is godawful. Their mean in Science are lower. Maths gets the cake, and I understand why : absolutely no practical aspect for their future life. Speaking of that, kids have no project. They don't know why they are at general highschool, well yes they know why : we forced them to be here.
Every teacher that has this class say the same : they don't want to work, it takes tremendous amounts of energy to put them to work for only 5 minutes, they do not work enough at home and they lack several skills from middle school (some of them can't read correctly, some of them have problems with multiplication, some fails with basic causality links). Every one of us try to get them involved. And fail. And we are tired. My colleagues are used to this kind of class. I am not.
There has been a rather interesting story about that class not long before Xmas, during the class' councils period. We gave written warning about the working attitude of 14 of them : those kinds of warning stay for all school life on a file. Usually, it's something thought for some times by the entire teacher team, and usually, only 1 or 2 are given in an entire year. So here, we gave 14 in a single trimester. We also gave 3 attitude warning, same kind of warning, but it's usually the last step before being excluded from the highschool. One student, who happened to assist to the council, took both warnings and started crying during the council.
-> TAKE THAT, EMOTIONAL PART OF ME.
We discussed about all the students. Horrible discussion. Emotional part of me : 0, Real life at school : 2. A couple of parents were here (the only two mother who seemed to care a bit). They were in awe in front of the grades. The first interesting thing comes now: a mother asked why the fucking fuck did the head of the school gather all those students in the same class, instead of mixing them with class with better profile. The adjoint of the school head answered like this :
"ABABABABAbabobobobobabababbaba."
Yeah, that's the sound of a murlock aggroing you on the beach in the swamp of Sorrow. But suddenly he felt generous and gave the real argument (but I have to translate murlock speech to you) :
"well you see, influent parents of very good profile of students have asked us to gather all very good profiled students in 2 class, that we call European section. So we did it, because we need them to make some advertisment for the highschool. For the other class, why bother mixing things when we could do the same bullshit ? Yeah, I know right ? So we put all the bad profile in two class and we didn't event bother giving it a name. Also, we put the worst doubling students on those class, so they couldn't even motive the class. Feels pretty good if you ask me."
Emotional me : -1. Real life at school: 3. End of the council soon after, me shaked to the soul. The very next day, I happen to be the first teacher that class has. So while I am giving them back some work they did, I heard the crying girl make a resume of the council. From what I heard, it was a worsened version of what we tried to explain during the council.
There, the 18 yo students start to cry. Emotional me : -4. Real life : 230. I send her to the school infirmary, and when she gets back 10 mins after, I tried to start the lesson.
ENTERS THE ADJOINT OF SCHOOL HEAD. He proceeds to spit on them metaphorically for 10 minutes, then left my room, leaving me in shatters. I was NOT informed that he'll come in my class. I make a good figure, watch my class and... they laugh. WTF ??? They laugh, and one of them asks me "Hey sir, WHO IS this guy ?"
Brain stopped working instantly, mind completely blown, my holidays started right at that moment, even if we had still 10 days of school. Conclusion of the story short after : I have my other class, and happened to be late to our lesson. When I arrived in front of the room, they all greeted me with smile and happy faces and told me they were waiting for me. I tend to be a bit emotional recently, I think I mentioned it. It was very hard not to cry in front of them. God it was so different. Differences that are too extreme. And I was being emotional again.
I think I realized I did not have what it takes to be a teacher at that moment. I don't think I can gain the skills required to be what I think is a good teacher, and I don't mean the technical skills. And if I can't be a good teacher, I can't take the responsability of fucking the mathematical education of those kids. I talk daily with my colleagues about this problem. They said it's not my fault, it cannot be my fault, I am not the one at fault. They said it's good that you can look at yourself and question your methods, you do what some of us can't do anymore. You have the good way of thinking. You have to accept that you'll do shitty lesson this year, that you'll fail so much time you will never be able to count them. And that it will never stop through your carreer. Gratitude and acknowledgement ? These are two things you'll never have in this job, son. Oh yeah, in 5 year, you might meet one kid you had in class and he'll cross the street to shake your hands and say how much you helped him, and you'll feel great.
But this life, this way of thinking, is not the way the person I am now thinks. It is like the opposite way. I learned the pleasure of hard work for the mental reward, the status reward, the social reward. I wanted to apply my knowledge and see its realization and I thought I could see it in my students. But I'll never see it in highschool.
I formulated my wish for being put as a teacher in Preparatory Class. Basically 2-3 years of working your ass of with the objectives of being selected in the best school of France. I have good chances to obtain this wish. If I still don't get it, I decided to quit the job at the end of the year, and start another professional life.
What this year has already taught me is invaluable. My admiration for teachers is now immense. I can know how strong people they are, and this job has shoven me my true weaknesses in the throat. And I can understand now how bad their working condition are. The educational system in France is dead. And every body without shit in his eyes knows it. But it will take at least 10 years of complete changes to make it a new working one. I still have panic attack at night, and I sleep barely 5 hours every night. Angst has started to materialize in my daily life too. I have to take medicine now to sleep on Sundays. And we didn't even mention the REAL work in this wall of text my friends. I know I have improved as a teacher, but it's still über shit. I have a hint that I'm doing very well for a first-year teacher in some report about me I read from my hierarchy.
Being über shitty = doing very well.
I can't. I just can't.
 
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Wow. This has to be the most egocentric, egoistic, narcissistic text of all time. Can't even know if it is the purpose of a blog. I don't think I am good enough in english to read all and track all grammatical errors but I'll try to at least correct typos and orthographic shit later. If you did go through that entire thing, you deserve a waffle.
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9933 Posts
man, that sounds rough. my mom teaches mathematics also in the States and she has a few classes a lot like yours, with students who've repeated basic algebra three times and still can't pass. the amount of patience it takes... it's tremendous. it's humbling, to look at her and be like 'yeah i'm never going to possess those traits in my lifetime'. i certainly would feel the same way you do in that environment.
hope you get that new position, it seems like working with gifted kids would be much more rewarding. what kind of jobs would you be looking for if it doesn't work out?
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On January 06 2013 05:38 intrigue wrote:
man, that sounds rough. my mom teaches mathematics also in the States and she has a few classes a lot like yours, with students who've repeated basic algebra three times and still can't pass. the amount of patience it takes... it's tremendous. it's humbling, to look at her and be like 'yeah i'm never going to possess those traits in my lifetime'. i certainly would feel the same way you do in that environment.
hope you get that new position, it seems like working with gifted kids would be much more rewarding. what kind of jobs would you be looking for if it doesn't work out?
Yeah, the issue here is straight up your job. You need to be in an area you feel comfortable, and the more gifted the children, the better you teach. You should get that new job. The second thing is that all good things come i time, seeing the psychologist is perfect and you will move at a remarkable rate forward with that help. Another thing I would suggest is to see a life coach, not forever, but you need some help and they are the people to help you.
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So you blame the system and say it is "dead" and your dream is to become a teacher in prepa ? Way to fight the system bro.
You will only make it more "alive" and "perfect" because you know it's not the system who is dead, it's the kids in your bad class. So leave your job and do something you really enjoy or be like Jesus and help those kids (but from what i can read you seem not strong enough to do that). You can't reasonably call the system "dead" and then try to teach in the most elitist schools, that just doesn't make sense.
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On January 06 2013 08:20 Boblion wrote:
So you blame the system and say it is "dead" and your dream is to become a teacher in prepa ? Way to fight the system bro.
You will only make it more "alive" and "perfect" because you know it's not the system who is dead, it's the kids in your bad class. So leave your job and do something you really enjoy or be like Jesus and help those kids (but from what i can read you seem not strong enough to do that). You can't reasonably call the system "dead" and then try to teach in the most elitist schools, that just doesn't make sense.
I want to teach in prepa because I do believe I can be a good teacher but I am a bad educator and I am not interested into becoming a good one. I never said I was a savior, I never said I wanted to fight the educational system so I don't understand your point here. Teaching doesn't always mean "teachings basics to kids".
Also, kids from the bad class are quite dead indeed, because they aren't where they should be. They have been sent into the general side of studies : the long one, the one where you spend 10 years learning shit while becoming more and more specialized in a field, and you touch the real world only at the end. Those kids want to see the real life now ; they dont want to learn a pile of useless knowledge (because that's what it is for them : useless, especially in maths, and they ARE right, it is useless before you hit bac +2 or +3). They should be sent to professional cycle, where they learn real skills, a real job, earn a real amount of money, and generally speaking, where they'll approach the real life.
You know why they aren't in the good place ? Because the system is fucked up.
Those kids, already having a hard time with studies in middle school, have been FORCED into general highschool so that they'll spend 3 (generally 4 or more because they'll be doubling) years on the bench of highschool before filling the employment agencies because they have no skills in nothing useful for THEIR life projects. You know that the general baccalaureat is just a paper required if you want to CONTINUE your studies, right ? Because that's what it is. With the general bac, you can go to university or IUT or whatever, but you won't get a better job or a better situation than someone with a professional bac working in his domain. In fact, you are qualified to nothing with the general bac, you're just been recognized as able to study more. Do you really think those kids want to stay in school for at least 9 years (not counting primary school) ?
The educational system in France is fucked up, and it is known for like 20 years that it will continue to get worse without proper changes. Every 5 years, bam, a new reform. And nothing has improved. Why ? Because changing clothes doesnt heal cancer.
On January 06 2013 05:38 intrigue wrote:
hope you get that new position, it seems like working with gifted kids would be much more rewarding. what kind of jobs would you be looking for if it doesn't work out?
Those classes are not reserved to gifted kids. It's something very specific to France. After the final exam at the end of highschool, students who wants to be in those classes apply and they are selected by their files and results. It's a cycle of maximum 3 years where you work your ass off (40 hours of class by week, double it with homework, at least one examination every week) and at the end you apply to another selective exam to get the "best schools in France". This is elitist indeed, but it is also a place where you can teach. The level of teaching ranges from first year in University to sometime first year in master in some type of class (particularly in Maths because of a French tradition),
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That's the first time i hear that people are FORCED into general highschool.
You don't seem really rational for a mathematician lol.
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On January 07 2013 05:09 Boblion wrote:
That's the first time i hear that people are FORCED into general highschool.
You don't seem really rational for a mathematician lol.
Then you don't know how kids are oriented nowadays. It has nothing to do with being rational, it has to do with facts.
There is 4 ways of exiting middle school, :
1) your results are godawful : you are directed to special formations or placed with higher priority in professional formations. Sometimes you are invited to double, with the hope that you enter general highschool at the end.
2) your results are meh : you are invited to double your troisième, so that you can enter general highschool the next year if possible. If you don't want to and your results are not too meh, you're placed in general highschool even if it is visible that you will fail badly. If you want professional formation, you're not in high priority because your results are either too good, or the course is selective and they are in fact too bad.
3)your results are average : you're a invited to continue to general highschool, even if your dream is to do whatever that doesn't need bac+3 to be selected.
4) your results are good or better : same
General highschool is the only way to access techonological baccalaureates. But the "seconde" is still a general one where you lose one year doing nothing but an improved troisième and still nothing useful for a concrete thing.
Also popular subconscience is : professional = shit. So social pressure kind of forces you to go to general highschool. That is extremely common with students' parents.
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Nonono it doesn't work like that. They are FREE to go into general highschool. They are ALLOWED, not forced.
That's the beauty of the system. If they fail they can't blame anyone other than themselves and they can't go around and cry "you forced me to be a plumber or a stonemason, it's unfair !" 
Just imagine for a second the reaction of the lefties if more people were truly forced to go to "professional schools". Teachers strikes, various accusations ranging from racism to social darwinism etc... that would be quite a mess lol. You want a civil war or something ?
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On January 08 2013 01:05 Boblion wrote:Nonono it doesn't work like that. They are FREE to go into general highschool. They are ALLOWED, not forced. That's the beauty of the system. If they fail they can't blame anyone other than themselves and they can't go around and cry "you forced me to be a plumber or a stonemason, it's unfair !" Just imagine for a second the reaction of the lefties if more people were truly forced to go to "professional schools". Teachers strikes, various accusations ranging from racism to social darwinism etc... that would be quite a mess lol. You want a civil war or something ?
Don't worry, we already select people before they go to high school.
Edit : OP, I might have missed it, but what's your formation ? Agreg/CAPES, engineer school or university ?
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On January 08 2013 04:26 corumjhaelen wrote:
[
Edit : OP, I might have missed it, but what's your formation ? Agreg/CAPES, engineer school or university ?
Agreg with University only, + a master for research, but I didn't find funding for a thesis.
On January 08 2013 01:05 Boblion wrote:Nonono it doesn't work like that. They are FREE to go into general highschool. They are ALLOWED, not forced. That's the beauty of the system. If they fail they can't blame anyone other than themselves and they can't go around and cry "you forced me to be a plumber or a stonemason, it's unfair !" Just imagine for a second the reaction of the lefties if more people were truly forced to go to "professional schools". Teachers strikes, various accusations ranging from racism to social darwinism etc... that would be quite a mess lol. You want a civil war or something ?
There would be a mess because the shit the educational system is in is so old it has perverted the real purpose of school and the way school is perceived. Also, yeah, I'm quite the kind of guy who would be happy with a civil war. I am the kind of guy who thinks that if you are doing too much mistakes, you have to destroy your paper and start a brand new copy, not overwriting little correction there and here. That's what I do when I do maths, by the way. I am also the kind of guy who thinks that when something is too fucked up, it "regulates" itself violently eventually.
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Is there anywhere in the world where the education system is not fucked? Or any system for that matter? Even a good system eventually gets fucked by corruption and nepotism. Welcome to carrying 9 slackers at your job and making them look good.
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On January 09 2013 00:44 keioh wrote:
There would be a mess because the shit the educational system is in is so old it has perverted the real purpose of school and the way school is perceived. Also, yeah, I'm quite the kind of guy who would be happy with a civil war. I am the kind of guy who thinks that if you are doing too much mistakes, you have to destroy your paper and start a brand new copy, not overwriting little correction there and here. That's what I do when I do maths, by the way. I am also the kind of guy who thinks that when something is too fucked up, it "regulates" itself violently eventually.
You are not strong enough to carry kids and you want a civil war ? lol
(Not that it will happen anytime soon)
Just to be clear what you call a perversion of the purpose of the educational system is called democratization.
Why would the masses revolt when all they get is more freedom ? (Including the freedom to fail their education)
Mathematicians never change i guess, you are like good old Plato who despised democracy. But what happened to him when he found a strong man to fulfill his little political experimentations ? The tyran got tired of his ramblings and sold his as a slave lol.
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On January 10 2013 04:15 Boblion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2013 00:44 keioh wrote:
There would be a mess because the shit the educational system is in is so old it has perverted the real purpose of school and the way school is perceived. Also, yeah, I'm quite the kind of guy who would be happy with a civil war. I am the kind of guy who thinks that if you are doing too much mistakes, you have to destroy your paper and start a brand new copy, not overwriting little correction there and here. That's what I do when I do maths, by the way. I am also the kind of guy who thinks that when something is too fucked up, it "regulates" itself violently eventually. You are not strong enough to carry kids and you want a civil war ? lol (Not that it will happen anytime soon) Just to be clear what you call a perversion of the purpose of the educational system is called democratization. Why would the masses revolt when all they get is more freedom ? (Including the freedom to fail their education) Mathematicians never change i guess, you are like good old Plato who despised democracy. But what happened to him when he found a strong man to fulfill his little political experimentations ? The tyran got tired of his ramblings and sold his as a slave lol.
I don't really agree with the equivalence of the slow but accelerating decay in quality of the educational system and its democratization. You can give access to "education" to everyone (and in reality you force them to get into school until 16), it doesnt mean you have to ruin their chances in life by forcing their choices or making them think they can choose whatever they want.
Where is the freedom of "the masses" by the way ? Who are you refering to by "the masses" ?
Don't get you Plato story, nor the logical connection between a civil war I never said I wanted and the fact that I'm not strong enough to carry kids.
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On January 10 2013 05:43 keioh wrote:
I don't really agree with the equivalence of the slow but accelerating decay in quality of the educational system and its democratization. You can give access to "education" to everyone (and in reality you force them to get into school until 16), it doesnt mean you have to ruin their chances in life by forcing their choices or making them think they can choose whatever they want.
How can you be so blind to not see and understand that the quality of the educational system AS A WHOLE is not declining. It gets better every day ! Do you think that all the people in the top schools are getting worse ? That the programmers, engineers, biologists etc... who are currently graduating are less competent than their predecessors ? Of course not that would be like denying technological progress lol. Trash is getting trashier tho but who cares ? Not you for sure since you want to leave your job lol.
You know that until the late sixties it was almost impossible to be "educated" if you were not coming from a privileged background ? You had to be extremly gifted and lucky to go to the university if your parents were not teachers themselves (or rich people). That's the whole reason behind mai 68 for fuck sake. You want lefties running around and bitching about life being unfair again ? You want more strikes ? You want more of those pathetic and grotesque protests ?
And again i don't know in which fantasy world you are living but NOBODY is forced to go into general highschool. If one kid wants to go to a professional school he is FREE to do that. Stop to be delusional just because as a young teacher you have to work in a "bad" school. Nobody forced those kids to be here. Hey nobody forced their parents to come here in the first place. And nobody forced you to become a teacher too. That's the beauty of the system, demagogy at its finest: the freedom to fail and nobody but yourself to blame.
And no their chances are not completly ruined if you do your job because you know many of those "lesser" professional jobs are taken by people who are more than often OVERqualified. So even if they go to the professional school they will be owned on the job market by people who decide to become (for example) electricians after one or two years at uni. Hell you can even become an electrician after a full physics degree (It's not like the university is expensive here lol).
On January 10 2013 05:43 keioh wrote:
Where is the freedom of "the masses" by the way ? Who are you refering to by "the masses" ?
The freedom of education is everywhere. You can go to professional highschool, you can go to general highshool, you can go to uni (Since the BAC is so easy to get nowadays) etc...
The masses as the name implies is the vast majority of the population who hasn't figured yet how life works. The very kind of people like you who think that effects precede their causes.
On January 10 2013 05:43 keioh wrote:
Don't get you Plato story, nor the logical connection between a civil war I never said I wanted and the fact that I'm not strong enough to carry kids.
You said you would be happy with a civil war whereas kids and little "social injustice" make you cry.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 09 2013 00:44 keioh wrote:
Also, yeah, I'm quite the kind of guy who would be happy with a civil war.
Idk man that doesn't really make sense to me. The Plato story was just a little example as to why mathematicians should not bother with any thing other than maths. Keep being aspie with numbers because that's all your job is about. After your tantrum and your incoherent analysis of the situation i would be extremly worried if you were to be anywhere close of a position of power.
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On January 10 2013 07:16 Boblion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 05:43 keioh wrote:
I don't really agree with the equivalence of the slow but accelerating decay in quality of the educational system and its democratization. You can give access to "education" to everyone (and in reality you force them to get into school until 16), it doesnt mean you have to ruin their chances in life by forcing their choices or making them think they can choose whatever they want.
How can you be so blind to not see and understand that the quality of the educational system AS A WHOLE is not declining. It gets better every day !
Don't know if trolling or just living in a fantasy.
On January 10 2013 07:16 Boblion wrote:
Do you think that all the people in the top schools are getting worse ? That the programmers, engineers, biologists etc... who are currently graduating are less competent than their predecessors ? Of course not that would be like denying technological progress lol. Trash is getting trashier tho but who cares ? Not you for sure since you want to leave your job lol.
How is that related to the overall improvement of educational system you are advocating for ? And how can you not see that you give yourself a contradictory argument here ? Improvement of educational system as a whole = trash getting trashier ? Are you serious ? School is meant to be the opposite. Also you're mixing secondary cycle and superior studies, the latter being reserved to a light percentage of the students who actually get the baccalaureat, because spending 7 years to achieve nothing or just stop university after 6 months because, fuck, you aren't even forced to go to TD and courses and you have no fucking clues of what they're talking about is not studying.
And yes I care. That's the whole fucking point. I feel bad because I feel I can't help them. I feel alone, and I feel the system is fucking them as it is now. I feel it is lying to them and maintain them in an illusion.
On January 10 2013 07:16 Boblion wrote:
You know that until the late sixties it was almost impossible to be "educated" if you were not coming from a privileged background ? You had to be extremly gifted and lucky to go to the university if your parents were not teachers themselves (or rich people). That's the whole reason behind mai 68 for fuck sake. You want lefties running around and bitching about life being unfair again ? You want more strikes ? You want more of those pathetic and grotesque protests ?
Can't. See. A. Link. Seriously. Maybe because there is none.
On January 10 2013 07:16 Boblion wrote:
And again i don't know in which fantasy world you are living but NOBODY is forced to go into general highschool. If one kid wants to go to a professional school he is FREE to do that. Stop to be delusional just because as a young teacher you have to work in a "bad" school. Nobody forced those kids to be here. Hey nobody forced their parents to come here in the first place. And nobody forced you to become a teacher too. That's the beauty of the system, demagogy at its finest: the freedom to fail and nobody but yourself to blame.
I don't work in a bad school. My highschool is pretty normal. That's already awkward enough. I think you don't realize what a bad school can be.
Ok, you're not forced into general highschool. Tell me what you do after your last year in middle school. Go into a professional school ? Ok, what if there is no place for you ? Ask for a doubling ? Who the fuck does that ? And even so, what after you doubled and still didn't improve your grades. You're 16, and no professional school can welcome you. Two choices : street, or general highschool. Ir you're not 16, we decide for you, it will be general highschool, the law forces you and your parents to do so.
Ok, so let's go fail another year and keep getting the feeling you're stupid and bad. What after ? Finally professional school ? Oh wait, you did 1 year into general highshcool, you're not prioritary anymore because there is a whole new generation of pupils who finish middle school. So what ? Well another seconde, or maybe you can join a technological cycle, so you'll stay at least 2 more years in highschool.
On January 10 2013 07:16 Boblion wrote:
And no their chances are not completly ruined if you do your job because you know many of those "lesser" professional jobs are taken by people who are more than often OVERqualified. So even if they go to the professional school they will be owned on the job market by people who decide to become (for example) electricians after one or two years at uni. Hell you can even become an electrician after a full physics degree (It's not like the university is expensive here lol).
Don't understand what you meant there.
On January 10 2013 07:16 Boblion wrote:
The freedom of education is everywhere. You can go to professional highschool, you can go to general highshool, you can go to uni (Since the BAC is so easy to get nowadays) etc...
The masses as the name implies is the vast majority of the population who hasn't figured yet how life works. The very kind of people like you who think that effects precede their causes.
So there you start attacking me on a topic you think you own, the life, but yet you have only given me hints that you have not a single clue of what you're talking about and have your own very personal approach on what are causes and consequences.
This was useless and aggressive so I feel obligated to answer with a useless sentence myself : you are a pretentious kid who thinks know how the world rolls but you're in fact completely incompetent if you're being taken out of your universe. That is based on the same kind of arguments you used to demonstrate that I didn't figure how life worked and that I was mistaking causes for consequences.
On January 10 2013 07:16 Boblion wrote:
You said you would be happy with a civil war whereas kids and little "social injustice" make you cry.
Yeah, and I still don't see the point.
On January 10 2013 07:16 Boblion wrote:
Idk man that doesn't really make sense to me. The Plato story was just a little example as to why mathematicians should not bother with any thing other than maths. Keep being aspie with numbers because that's all your job is about. After your tantrum and your incoherent analysis of the situation i would be extremly worried if you were to be anywhere close of a position of power.
So here you're being freely offensive, again you think you know what my job is about, and by giving your thoughts you just show me how ignorant and pretentious you are. As for my incoherent analysis, your analysis is poorly illustrated and illogical, even contradictory, so don't start me on this.
I propose something : we stop this argument because I don't see a way of you and I agreeing on something, apart from the fact we are living in two different worlds. Enjoy yours.
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On January 11 2013 00:43 keioh wrote:
Don't know if trolling or just living in a fantasy.
How is that related to the overall improvement of educational system you are advocating for ? And how can you not see that you give yourself a contradictory argument here ? Improvement of educational system as a whole = trash getting trashier ? Are you serious ? School is meant to be the opposite. Also you're mixing secondary cycle and superior studies, the latter being reserved to a light percentage of the students who actually get the baccalaureat, because spending 7 years to achieve nothing or just stop university after 6 months because, fuck, you aren't even forced to go to TD and courses and you have no fucking clues of what they're talking about is not studying.
As long as the good are getting better the "system" is successful, there is no contradiction with what i'm saying. Oh and no i'm not mixing anything. The problem with general highschool is exactly the same than with university (i.e: many mediocre students are doomed to fail). Oh and i know perfectly what i'm talking about because you know i experienced it in the first place lol.
You know what is wrong with your attitude ? You actually want to select the kids between 12 and 16. Now mind you i don't really care because in the grand scheme of things for most of human history people have been selected at age zero. If you were born peasant or slave, chances were high to remain the same. However my objection is that you actually think that it is a good idea to select people earlier again. You think it will solve some imaginary problems. You want to force their choices and you will only create resentment. That's why we have the current system because it prevents a lot of bitching. Who cares if some kids waste their time in the meanwhile.
On January 10 2013 07:16 Boblion wrote:
And yes I care. That's the whole fucking point. I feel bad because I feel I can't help them. I feel alone, and I feel the system is fucking them as it is now. I feel it is lying to them and maintain them in an illusion.
Then if you care man the fuck up and do your job. Wtf is wrong with you dude you are always moaning when you are the only chance those kids have. And stop with this system bullshit, if more teachers actually did their job maybe the system wouldn't be so unfair in the first place. But no... must blame... the system...
On January 11 2013 00:43 keioh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 07:16 Boblion wrote:
You know that until the late sixties it was almost impossible to be "educated" if you were not coming from a privileged background ? You had to be extremly gifted and lucky to go to the university if your parents were not teachers themselves (or rich people). That's the whole reason behind mai 68 for fuck sake. You want lefties running around and bitching about life being unfair again ? You want more strikes ? You want more of those pathetic and grotesque protests ?
Can't. See. A. Link. Seriously. Maybe because there is none.
No just because you have no clue about history doesn't mean that there is no link. The current system is the result of the policies of the past. It is called the democratisation of education.
On January 11 2013 00:43 keioh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 07:16 Boblion wrote:
And again i don't know in which fantasy world you are living but NOBODY is forced to go into general highschool. If one kid wants to go to a professional school he is FREE to do that. Stop to be delusional just because as a young teacher you have to work in a "bad" school. Nobody forced those kids to be here. Hey nobody forced their parents to come here in the first place. And nobody forced you to become a teacher too. That's the beauty of the system, demagogy at its finest: the freedom to fail and nobody but yourself to blame.
I don't work in a bad school. My highschool is pretty normal. That's already awkward enough. I think you don't realize what a bad school can be.
Then you are certainly not working in a good school because you know they don't have classes full of Subsharian kids and second/third generation immigrants lol. But anyway that wasn't the point.
On January 10 2013 07:16 Boblion wrote:
Ok, you're not forced into general highschool. Tell me what you do after your last year in middle school. Go into a professional school ? Ok, what if there is no place for you ? Ask for a doubling ? Who the fuck does that ? And even so, what after you doubled and still didn't improve your grades. You're 16, and no professional school can welcome you. Two choices : street, or general highschool. Ir you're not 16, we decide for you, it will be general highschool, the law forces you and your parents to do so.
I don't have the numbers but i would be extremly surprised if you can't reasonably find a place. Since the formation are specialized you probably will have to travel a bit because you know they can't afford professional schools in every town lol. Now obviously if you wait until the application deadline you are fucked but hey that's your fault ?
On January 10 2013 07:16 Boblion wrote:
Ok, so let's go fail another year and keep getting the feeling you're stupid and bad. What after ? Finally professional school ? Oh wait, you did 1 year into general highshcool, you're not prioritary anymore because there is a whole new generation of pupils who finish middle school. So what ? Well another seconde, or maybe you can join a technological cycle, so you'll stay at least 2 more years in highschool.
And what's the problem ? i mean who cares ? For every ten failures maybe you will have a successful guy ? I could understand if you were saying that they are a waste of money for the State but you are not even making this point.
On January 11 2013 00:43 keioh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 07:16 Boblion wrote:
And no their chances are not completly ruined if you do your job because you know many of those "lesser" professional jobs are taken by people who are more than often OVERqualified. So even if they go to the professional school they will be owned on the job market by people who decide to become (for example) electricians after one or two years at uni. Hell you can even become an electrician after a full physics degree (It's not like the university is expensive here lol).
Don't understand what you meant there.
Being overqualified is never a problem in life ? I know someone who is an electrician after a degree in physic and a carpenter who has a philosophy degree. Now the philo guy is an odd case but there are plenty of people like that. And just to be clear they usually make way better workers than the kids who have been forced against their will to go to a professional school at age 16. That was the point.
On January 11 2013 00:43 keioh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 07:16 Boblion wrote:
The freedom of education is everywhere. You can go to professional highschool, you can go to general highshool, you can go to uni (Since the BAC is so easy to get nowadays) etc...
The masses as the name implies is the vast majority of the population who hasn't figured yet how life works. The very kind of people like you who think that effects precede their causes.
So there you start attacking me on a topic you think you own, the life, but yet you have only given me hints that you have not a single clue of what you're talking about and have your own very personal approach on what are causes and consequences. This was useless and aggressive so I feel obligated to answer with a useless sentence myself : you are a pretentious kid who thinks know how the world rolls but you're in fact completely incompetent if you're being taken out of your universe. That is based on the same kind of arguments you used to demonstrate that I didn't figure how life worked and that I was mistaking causes for consequences.
I certainly don't own life but at least i try my best to make SENSE. Because you know blaming the "system" has never solved the problems. Oh and i'm not the one who is pretentious. YOU are the guy who is insecure when he is confronted to the cold truth of reality.
On January 11 2013 00:43 keioh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 07:16 Boblion wrote:
You said you would be happy with a civil war whereas kids and little "social injustice" make you cry.
Yeah, and I still don't see the point.
You moan way too much for someone who wants a civil war. Get real and do your job or quit. You ain't gonna change how life works with revolutions tough guy, not anymore. How can you be so blind to not understand that this system is the result of the past revolutions, it is the result of democracy !
On January 11 2013 00:43 keioh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 07:16 Boblion wrote:
Idk man that doesn't really make sense to me. The Plato story was just a little example as to why mathematicians should not bother with any thing other than maths. Keep being aspie with numbers because that's all your job is about. After your tantrum and your incoherent analysis of the situation i would be extremly worried if you were to be anywhere close of a position of power.
So here you're being freely offensive, again you think you know what my job is about, and by giving your thoughts you just show me how ignorant and pretentious you are. As for my incoherent analysis, your analysis is poorly illustrated and illogical, even contradictory, so don't start me on this. I propose something : we stop this argument because I don't see a way of you and I agreeing on something, apart from the fact we are living in two different worlds. Enjoy yours.
I would certainly not try to challenge your competency in mathematic. I would probably not try to challenge the way you are teaching too (And at least i would have to attend one of your classes first). However your analysis of the situation and of the "system" is completly delusional. But hey welcome to life ? You know there is something outside of maths and it is not always pretty and it was certainly not supposed to be fair in the first place.
I agree with your conclusion tho but i'm still curious to know what will be your decision regarding your job because that's an hard choice you have here. The poor kids or your illusions
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