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On November 18 2012 03:12 Z-BosoN wrote:
BlazingHand, I don't know if you are scum, but you seem the only one on my wagon to actually trying to legitimately pin me as scum, trying to tackle my posts. I can't defend myself against debears and DP, they are too blind to reason and are clearly not reading.
DP I have a 99.99% town read on so w.e on him.
What do you think of debears? What about djodref?
Let me know what you think of my latest posts concerning WIFOM bombs as well. Need to find a soul to whom I can adequately defend myself too. Hopeless is not taking the game seriously anymore, debears went full retard, and DP is quietly sleeping (when you wake up, let me know your explanation for my proof that my pre-night post was not WIFOM).
Also, I agree with clarity. Town just got waaaaaaaay more inactive. We're doing great, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Kickstart, Hopeless and iamp, need you guys here..
I always go full retard. So do uou find me scummy or not?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
debears aggression strikjes me as town but ill have to read to see if its ormal for him ans also if its logical
djorefs play is crap but you dont lynch a replacement the day he replaces in
when im home ill sit down and see whats been said
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ZB, besides meta, a big reason I want to lynch you is I fully agree that you were WIFOM bombing like DP said. Particularly damning are these two quotes, sequential in your filter:
On November 14 2012 09:18 Z-BosoN wrote:
Allrighty back.
Dammit BH, I really think you should have saved your claim until later, you gave up too easily :/
I wasn't as certain on you as it might have seemed, but I wanted to gauge your reaction by throwing you against the wall.
Anyways, here's what I think of this game so far.
marv is likely town. He's a difficult town read to give, but his posting here seems genuine, and is much different than in GSL. Either he's trying much harder as scum or he's town. For now I'll go with the latter.
Clarity is likely town. Just look at him being all cute under a major dirt-flinging fest. I'm townie, and so must be BH right now, so if I know my XXX analysis straight, scum hate posting during these sort of fightsituations, and It's harder for me to see scum posting during all of that like he did.
Kickstart is likely town. He seems very genuine with his thoughts, and his posts, to me, seem townie-oriented.
iamp is likely town. If his entire 180 attention-drawing isn't enough, then his activeness during all of this also indicate to me he is town.
This is how I feel right now regarding townsfolk.
Originally I had SnB down as town, but I feel he is null right now to me, I dunno, have a hard time reading him. Would (maybe?) give a town read on him?
Thrawn is null to me. I can't see him being this quiet either as townie or as scum. He really really has to explain himself or be replaced thoug...
Crossfire is afk.
Now towards the scummers
Hapauli. Much quieter this game. Much less present. Disappeared during all of my interaction with BH, only to appear after the claim. I don't buy his cases, especially the one on iamp. Completely ignored my first case on BH, and town Hapa usually comments on everything. In the beginning, put on some light pressure on DP, then unvoted him from some easy explanation only to never mention him again. Not a play I'd see hapa do.
debears. Began the game with excessive posting, made a poor sheepy follow-up on iamp. Disappeared and has drastically reduced his posting. Seems pretty damn scummy.
DarthPunk Doesn't have much to work with, is likely working on the other game. I find it weird how little attention he's getting from some of the scummier folk. A bad tell, but he's here mostly by elimination.
Hopeless1der Not sure of his play yet. It's comparable to that of LVII, but I can see him as scum. Dunno.
These are just my thoughts, mainly to get discussion going and for BH to see what he thinks (there's still a chance he's scum, but I'm assuming he is town for now).
I haven't decided who I want to lynch yet, these are just my thoughts from my current level of reading. Tomorrow I'll be back probably with more powerful cases.
On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:I'm down to lynching hopeless1der. No comment on BHI find this point, mentioned before, to be quite good. He not only didn't mention BH's claim, but he attacked someone for not mentioning it. It sounds very contrived and doesn't seem to have strong town motivation at all. MetaWhat seals the deal for me is his meta from the last game I played with him, LVII. From the start, his game has been very different. Observe one of his entrance posts: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=21#402Note that he is aggressive and makes a case right off the bat against forumite. BAM. Vote. Doesn't give a shit. Is assertive, aggressive. What of this game? Look at his only post that comes close to being significant. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=22#438Makes a big post, doesn't conclude shit. Seems just like the ordinary "look at me scumhunting". In this game he shows a weaker, less assertive version of him in LVII. He has a bunch of posts going after debears, and he's not going anywhere with it.. He only votes debears when debears is already a viable candidate, has two votes on him. Here is his voting post: Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 22:16 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 14 2012 14:54 debears wrote:
For all you who think me being afk is a scumtell, which you guys are retarded if you do
Let me just say this once. Fuck off debears. Nothing personal, but in all seriousness OMGUS. I'm still your scum read because I've done nothing since you laid into me for 'lecturing town'. If you still want to harp on that chord, you're not being a good little townie. I was afk for longer than you were, and you have nothing new to post in the thread. I'll lay this out for you. This is the post I was "lecturing" about: On November 13 2012 10:49 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 10:44 marvellosity wrote:
you can't active lurk in a game that's less than 2 hours old, numbnuts.
If anyone's 'active lurking' it's me. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Don't shut people down who are obviously trying their best to scum hunt and contribute. You are only going to discourage those things. Or is that what you want? I was not lecturing everyone, I was responding to a single post and listing multiple examples of less than stellar reasons to vote for someone. I was told to drop it with you so you could focus on the rest of the game instead, because I was distracting you from being useful. On November 14 2012 00:17 marvellosity wrote:
Hopeless, I think you're making too much of that. The bit you bold says "was" - past tense, that was his stance previously (when he'd missed my Crossfire post).
Like debears said just now there's not a lot to say about Crossfire otherwise, you can't really have a stance on someone who hasn't posted yet.
The whole issue is overblown and should be dropped. If only because it's a big distraction to debears, who has to keep talking about it, and it's not helping anyone And yet I'm still your top scum read and iamperfection is still the only other player you'll really talk about. You haven't commented on anything significant (neither have I yet, but fuck it, you're already voting me) I dont give a shit what your IRL issues are, same as you probably dont care why I was gone. I care that you claim that there are no better cases than the one on me when you have no new information and are just stuck on the fact that I'm afk and therefore avoiding you. What's more, you aren't even pushing me as your scum read. Yes this is an OMGUS vote. ##Vote: debearsAm I going to need to pull a BH and shoot my load earl--I mean sift through my own meta to find examples of me being a jackass? Btw debears, why in the hell were you unable/unwilling to comment on BH's claim? Basically votes on debears for not pushing his top scum read. Doesn't add any of the the other arguments he used here. That does not sound like anyone who's scum hunting. He says his vote is OMGUS, and states ONE reason for pursuing debears. He spends a long time focusing on debears but never actually voting. This, of course, much unlike his own play in LVII. Look at how he treats his cases in LVII, and how greatly it contrasts with his play this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=51#1015http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=51#1013He's using every single argument he had already made, and is being a LOT more insistent and convincing than that. I'm not the best judge of meta, but that is in too great a contrast with his play on this game, in my opinion. Why not debears?I've done some thinking on this and I'm not sure he's scum. Hapa's main argument of not pushing his scumreads are decent, but I've mislynched people on that count before. Judging by his play, and comparing that to his last game as scum, I don't see it being too similar. When he was scum, his posts were much longer. In day one, he spent a lot of time writing out big cases and looked much townier (lol, weird, but true). I can see him sheeping on iamp with that kind of mentality, based on such a weak argument. I think scum debears would rather make his own case on someone and be happy with it. Why not DarthPunk?He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though. ConclusionI find hopeless' contrast in meta much worse in this game. He's being useless and much less present than in LVII. Read his filter there, read it here, and see if you come to the same conclusion I did. He doesn't look like he's trying to get debears lynched. Especially how much effort he put on in LVII. ##Vote Hopeless1der
Not because of who you voted, or even how you explained your vote. Its how you explained why you wouldn't vote the others. Hapa isn't mentioned. It's too conspicuous. I feel very good about lynching you today.
In addition, given that you claimed miller, it would have been an appropriate time to mention your choice to change up your meta. Whether or not its true is not the problem, its the fact that it was used as a crutch to try and save yourself. You used your 'intentional meta shift' as a player might claim miller as its getting close to their lynch. Its scummy because you withheld information from town and then used that information to try to manipulate a case made against you. It does matter that you pre-empted Marv's case with this explanation, and I consider marv and BH's meta reads on you to be both accurate and condemning.
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EBWOP: last sentence should read "It doesn't matter that you pre-empted..."
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No debears, you don't:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 07 2012 16:23 debears wrote:Aright guys, I'm gonna put something new into the thread. Considering that Djo and Z-Bo are pretty much confirmed at this point, I was wondering why we are having so much trouble this game with finding the last mafia. My conclusions: The last mafia is playing a hell of a game. Looking at this, I've been wondering who is capable of this. At this point, I'd see Z-Bo, SDM, and SS. Z-Bo is confirmed. SS has said some scummy things and is at threat of being lynched. However, one person has managed to avoid the spotlight throughout the whole game. He has not had anyone actually attack (besides Z-Bo day 1, but that was an argument over the validity of my defense of SDM early). That person is SDM. Recently, his refusal to vote me in the lynch set off some alarms in my head. I've looked through his filter and found some things that don't make townie sense. The Association with KushAfter SDM hardcore shut down kush and voted kush, pointing out multiple scumslips, this is all that kush had to say to him + Show Spoiler +On September 29 2012 06:33 kushm4sta wrote:
sdm you make no sense. I tried hard not to make scumslips last game. this game I did not. because I am not scum.
I don't know if any of you guys have had this experience but when everyone wants to lynch you and you are definitely going to get lynxhed, it just feels like why am I going to waste my time writing cases and making arguments for this shitty town. that's gonna kill me anyway.
I'm actually starting to hope I get lynched to teach town a lesson.. all scums put your votes right here. easiest d1 ever I hope you guys win. Notice how kush does not flame, OMGUS, or insult SDM in any manner here. This is the only time kush addresses Sonic, and he does it in a neutral manner. Compare that to the reactions of kush to Dp ( town), Z-Bo ( town), and Stutters ( town) when they all accused him. To me, Kush made a defense. The only neutral reaction he had to his early accusers is SDM. What this indicates to me is that kush was expecting SDM to attack him, making his post not a reaction but a response to an accusation he knew knew was coming. Overconfidence
Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 04:59 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:In my mind these are good reasons to be suspicious of Debears. We most certainly need to push for more information from other players as well though. If XXVII thaught me anything it was that I have a tendency to get way overconfident in my reads. This is actually wrong. If anything, it should have taught SDM to be more confident in his reads. He had me pinned down but let me off the hook last game. He stopped pursuing me because of a misunderstanding of thrawn's lynch the last lurker comment. Show nested quote +On October 04 2012 01:46 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
Yeah I agree. I don't think it's guaranteed, overconfidence is a bitch, but it looks like a good start. Another quote talking about overconfidence. This is about not getting too confident in the endgame and losing because of it. The weird thing is that SDM disappeared after the lynch, on a weekend when he should have more time than the week. Yet, he hasn't posted anything. Is he overconfident? Seems like it. I don't know why either since the whole town has been spinning around in circles since the kush lynch. Time and IndecisionRecently, SDM has been saying that he hasn't had time to look over filters + Show Spoiler +On October 05 2012 23:18 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:D2 voting: Debears by Darth 1-0 Debears by Djo 2-0 Alsn by Darth 1-1 Debears by Alsn 2-1 Debears by Omni 3-1 Alsn by SDM 3-2 Alsn by Debears 3-3 Debears by Boson 4-3 Alsn by Shady 4-4 Unvote + BotN by Boson 3-4 Alsn by Remedy 3-5 Alsn by Djo 2-6 Alsn by Stutters 2-7 Alsn by Boson 2-8 I'd need my conspiracy goggles on to see Boson pushing Alsn here. Read the links, it doesn't looks like Boson tries to nudge the decision in Debears favor. The case doesn't necessarily hinge on this, but it makes it considerably weaker. I'd need more time to read filters... For someone who has a pretty large filter, time doesn't seem to be a problem for SDM. He continued to post during this time, although he needed more to look at filters. + Show Spoiler +On October 05 2012 21:55 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 20:46 Shady Sands wrote:On October 05 2012 20:39 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
But it still makes no sense to me. You assume Boson is scum, thus Debears can't be scum and thus Boson must be scum. Your assumption is your conclusion. No I know Alsn is town. I know ZB is trying to avoid pushing hard for a Debears lynch D2/3 even though he pushed a Debears lynch D1. Thus ZB's case on Debears feels insincere. Thus most of the case on Debears gets thrown out by me. At the same time, I ask why ZB would want to push for a D1 Debears lynch even over Kush. Answer: Save Kush since Lesrah is AFK. I also ask why ZB would suddenly back away D2/D3. Answer: Avoid having town realize that the D1 push on Debears was a mislynch, accrue towncred, survive till endgame. I cannot find any townie motivation why ZB would flip from pushing Debears over Kush D1 to accepting Alsn D2 and FoSing half the town over Debears D3. That's actually an interesting case. It's true Boson ignored the Kush case d1. He had a good case on Debears imo, so I didn't really find it weird he was pushing his own case (we all tend to be biased towards our own cases, at least that's true for me). I need to go back and look up his filter myself. He did switch to Alsn and I can't remember his reasonings. I feel like the individual pieces of evidence you have are not that strong, but they paint an interesting picture. One question I have right off the bat, if it was all a big master plan, why did he initially vote for Debears d2? Seems like it could've caused the noose battle to become one-sided. Anyway, I'll go back and check his filter, I'm not 100% sure of those events. What do you think of the Omni case? Having to read both of your filters I doubt I'll have time to make up my mind on this and I still like it. Yet again, he says he won't be able to make up his mind on stuff since he doesn't have time. Notice the indecisive tone of those posts. Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 23:34 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:On October 05 2012 22:55 Z-BosoN wrote:
EBWOP lynch him the next day if we decide he is scum.
Also, sdm. Save my filter for the night. If you don't have enough time, decide between SS and djodref. This idea to bring up a ridiculous case on me in late day 3 when I'm not even a lynch choice is typical shady's dumb thinking, which mostly manifests itself when he is town. Also, doint ignore the fact he ignored your case.
Anyways, I'm leaning slight town on him (plus, corrosion bothered writing a list before he left, as if he genuinely wants to help town. I feel if he were scum, he would just abandon this game and not care). omni seems scummy but is a wasteful lynch if he gets nodkilled, so that only leaves djodref, from my pov. Now that, from a skim of his filter, I can definitely see him as sxum, I want to lynch him atm. I have no idea what to make out of all this. It doesn't look like a bad case but I'm having a feeling the more I look into it, the more farfetched it becomes. Or you are fucking genius. I mean, both the d1 against Debears and the d2 case against Alsn are good. All of us found them so good we voted at least one of them. I'm still leaning Omni, since he's both very scummy and a complete lurker. but I still got a few more minutes to read filters. More indecisiveness. At this point, SDM seems to be falling apart for no reason. There are more of them...I'm putting them in a spoiler right here if you want to read the rest + Show Spoiler +On October 05 2012 20:49 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
I need to grap some food and reread all this stuff, my head is spinning. For now...
##Unvote On October 05 2012 20:23 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 16:41 Z-BosoN wrote:
This is very intriguing...
Thanks for that post SS, it brought out some very interesting reactions.
Of course, your case is laughable, as usual.
Of course, as scum, I would want to switch my vote towards a townie, in favor of, let's see, another townie. I will definitely bother producing a fuckton of text just for that.
Anyways, djodref managed to be even worse. Please reread your points against me, and think of how they could come from me as scum. Think about what your FOS accomplishes for town here today. I'll be accepting donations to make up for you making my eyes bleed.
If Omni doesn't answer, it's either debears/djodref/SS imo. Pointless lynching a modkill. Will decide come tomorrow, I gotta go sleep.
SDM, I'd love to know your input on who you'd rather lynch save Omni.
I'm sleepy as hell and will go to sleep, but probably during class tomorrow I'm gonna make up my mind.
RSC, same thing.
Gnight!
Not sure, Shady was my second pick until my brain just recently exploded. Djo's FOS was totally of the blue but I don't necessarily see a strong mafia motivation. If he's mafia maybe he wanted an easy wagon on you and backed off once Debears and I replied? Seems kind of unlikely. On October 05 2012 15:39 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 14:30 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
Is this the point where you disappear again? Confirmed. I'll just say right away I'm not jumping a late Boson wagon, at least not if those are the arguments. Shady's post is a joke, what does this even mean? Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 14:19 Shady Sands wrote:
his unvote of Debears and transfer to Alsn is also wierd I have no idea what's going on here. On October 05 2012 13:53 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
I'm pretty thrawn suggested in XXVII that scum is more likely to be talking about the NK rationale of scum. I don't think I've seen that myself though so I'm not sure whether it's true. Probably not, night actions seems like a rather common talking point in newbie games. There are posts where SDM just goes on an explanation and doesn't settle on an opinion. Scum like using these kinds of post to make it look like they are actually saying something when they aren't + Show Spoiler +On October 03 2012 20:43 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
I don't know what to make of Debears post-d2 posts because it's putting me in total WIFOM mode and I should probably just ignore it.
But disregarding his last posts which obviously could be the result of leveling, is his case stronger than the one I just made? Maybe it's the excitement of novelty, but really? At least I'd say Debears play has been way more pro-town. He has his scummy-looking inconsistneies for sure, but at the same time he was aggressive d1. He tried making cases, get the thread started. He took attention because he was willing to, compare that to Omni who's just cruising by. At least I encourage you to pop out of the Debears bubble we've all been in to look at it.
Also, to Debears benefit, does scum really hang on this long when faced by pages and pages of accusations? I know I gave in quickly in XXVI because it seemed pointless. And look at Kush's reaction. That's the only examples I have myself from experience, maybe Debears is different. And maybe you can question if a townie would hang in this long. At least Alsn did. On October 05 2012 13:46 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 13:04 RemedySC wrote:On October 01 2012 05:56 Omniscient4983 wrote:Thoughts on night actions:On October 01 2012 05:14 DarthPunk wrote:
LOL. Seems scum really went for it. Nice medic save! I'm guessing scum targeted Darth, and the medic saved him. He was the obvious candidate for NK, but the mafia tried to kill him anyway despite there being a high chance that a medic would be on him. This means that scum is desperate to get Darth out of the game. Why? Not only was he correct about Kush, but he gave his 3 top scum reads during the night in this order:
Debears
Djodref
AlsnFrom my perspective: since scum targeted Darth, one of his three reads has a high likelihood of being correct. If he was headed in the wrong direction with these reads, scum would have taken out someone else and let him lead us astray. Attempting to NK Darth was a huge risk, but I believe it's one scum had to take because he was so on track, and having him alive would spell their doom in the end.What does everyone else think? Why have such an out of the blue description of what could have happened? He seems to know a lot about what scum would have done in this situation. For mafia motivation I can see him trying to lead us to three lynches, which we've already done one. I know Drazak slipped his medic role in XXVI after his night action and Xatalos picked up on it (that's why I don't really like blue role discussions after night actions). This is not how he slipped though, Drazak slipped it by talking about the rationale of the medic. I feel like this could easily just be scum trying to passively suggest three mislynches (we should lynch Debears, Djodref and Alsn, not because I want to but because Darth wants to) or just a green speculating. Or possibly a medic, but the risk of him being medic AND missing to save Darth seems rather low to me. You need two rather low probability events to coincide for that to be true.
Basically I just don't make much out of this post. Notice how in both posts, SDM just revolves around an idea, citing it from each perspective and then jsut sayiing all of them are equally as likely. No actual insight ContributionsGoing back through SDM's thread, I considered what were his unique cases and scumreads? The only one I actually found was Djo's case. However, SDM quickly dropped the case once suspicion on Djo picked up + Show Spoiler +On October 01 2012 22:09 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
My main focus for today will be Debears, Djo and Alsn. Djo has already responded to the case presented yesterday. The individual evidence presented earlier matches the actions of how I would expect newbie scum to play, but for whatever it’s worth my “feel read” is that he’s coming off as quite genuine. I’ve also been going through his recent posts and can’t seem to find any obvious contridictions or inconcistencies in his explanations. It’s all newbie based explanation that could be made up ex-post but a newbie scum is likely to have fucked up at least some part of the defense, so if this is an innocent newbie charade he’s playing it off rahter well.
I’m feeling a bit uneasy going for a Djo lynch and for now I’m leaning towards Alsn or Debears being the better candidates. Both have been posting a metric shit ton lately so I've got my hands full going through everything. I’m looking to complete that half-finished thought I threw out on Alsn yesterday and have a better idea of which lynch I’m liking later today. So, instead of going for his main case, he decides to turn onto me and Alsn, the easy cases. Let's look at his contribution to the Alsn case. + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +On October 02 2012 04:04 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 01 2012 02:36 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
I tried to collect my thoughts regarding the Alsn case and I realized when I first commented my perception of the timeline of events was off.
On my first read through of the thread, I found Alsn being generally suspicious of everything (overall a town trait) and he had been fucking up with regards to some of the information (perhaps not what I'd expect of Alsn given what I've seen of him before, but I don't find it too weird). Alsn was pretty much a null read to me. Anyway, I went back to look at Alsn's filter.
In his first post, which happens around 11 hours after the start of the game, he makes a long ass post about his thoughts on Kush. This in itself might be suspicious to some people, but having played with Kush in XXVI and XXVII he was probably the one player I was thinking the most about who to handle pre-game so I don't find it too weird. In his next post, one hour later, he has read up on the thread and recognizes that Kush has been playing like he Alsn had been afraid he would. He FOS Kush but says he's not convinced.
Anyway, when I said I wasn't convinced of the case, I had messed up the timeline of events. I thought Alsn's posts indirectly defending Kush happened not long before Kush completely blew up. If that was the case, I would've found it weird for Kush to blow up soon after his scum buddy showed him support. It seems now that Kush blew up at a later stage when Alsn wasn't around the thread, so that nullifies the argument I thought I had against the case.
I felt it was best to put it out there because if I happen to get killed off I don't want to leave with the impression I had some well thought out objection to the Alsn case. I still need to finish reading Alsn's filter and look at the case again, but I won't have time to do it until tomorrow. So yeah, not only did this turn out not to be an argument in favor of Alsn, but the timings makes sense for him being scum. Kush’s posts are actually most reasonable when Alsn is around and he later blows up after Alsn leaves with this post: + Show Spoiler +On September 29 2012 03:50 Alsn wrote:
Would just like to say that I'm going to bed a little early today. Will be up in the morning(~12-14 hours before lynch) and making some posts and then on and off until lynch but without major "leaves of absence". Here's hoping that no one is still lurking when I wake up. This in itself isn’t necessarily incriminating but worth noting. Anyway, I’ll focus more on your reasoning for defending Kush. I don’t think it’s been fully covered and reading your filter this is something that doesn’t make sense to me. Intro: + Show Spoiler +When Alsn makes his first post Kush is taking heat from Darth. The Kush case hadn’t really been built yet, but the information is there. This is something Alsn acknowledges in his second post. On September 28 2012 17:56 Alsn wrote:
Wow, upon reading the thread I realise that kush has been following the exact pattern I just now specified to be the way not to play if he wanted to absolve himself in my eyes. The OMGUS, the aggression, the flaming, the scum slip. Despite this, he’s going back on what he just said in his first post: On September 28 2012 16:54 Alsn wrote:
So to sum up, kush, I can definitely forgive you for your "style" of posting but I will not under any circumstance forgive you for posting shitty content And instead posts: On September 28 2012 17:56 Alsn wrote:
However, I definitely want to give him the benefit of the doubt and allow him to actually try and show that he has town's best interest in mind. So until then, while I definitely would like everyone to share their reads on kush so far, that is not enough for D1. We need to start exploring different possibilities because if we decide to lynch kush and he flips green, spending all of D1 talking about him will put us back at square one minus two townies.
I'll make another post within an hour or two on another topic as I think I've made myself perfectly clear on where I stand on kush, but right now I need breakfast. So he leaves saying he’s undecided on Kush, trying to steer the discussion in a different direction and if not, him having an easier bus decision (again, not incriminating in itself, but not my main point). Your main arguments for defending Kush is 1) his meta supporting his play and 2) the scum slip not being severe. To me that’s a really weird conclusion to make. Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 00:24 Alsn wrote:On September 28 2012 22:39 DarthPunk wrote:On September 28 2012 22:03 Alsn wrote:On September 28 2012 21:38 DarthPunk wrote:On September 28 2012 21:31 Alsn wrote:
he has pointed out that he doesn't agree with your tunneling of kush. I find it astonishing that you 'interpret' debears' post that way in context of your view of Z-Boson. The way in which you paraphrase things whilst obscuring the truth/ put your own angle on things has me very concerned. Astonishing how? I would like you to explain what's so amazingly pro-town about tunneling kush from the very beginning. I find the risks of that approach to be very high from a town perspective. There are two scenarios: A) He flips green, and unless he during the day completely changed his character we will have almost no way of distinguishing who among the people who pushed for his lynch were scum and who were town. B) He flips scum, at this point I just don't find that likely enough to risk A) happening. That fact alone is enough for me to see that post of debears as entirely reasonable, since both of you at the time were basically calling out kush for every single post he was making(for good reason, but not if that's the only thing you are doing). I was not just looking at Kush. I was looking at the reactions to my case on kush also, Namely debears. As far as I am concerned Kush is scum and therefore it is best for town to lynch him. I like to focus on one thing at a time. Especially when he is incredibly scummy and has SCUM SLIPPED It is a common scum hunting technique and has been recommended in Several postgames. Obviously It was not to the exclusion of all others because I am now looking at you and debears. If there was nothing to go on I would have changed tac. Turns out he is scum. So I try and get him lynched. Savvy? On September 28 2012 22:03 Alsn wrote:
That fact alone is enough for me to see that post of debears as entirely reasonable, since both of you at the time were basically calling out kush for every single post he was making(for good reason, but not if that's the only thing you are doing). So you don't find Kush likely to flip scum? good to know. Z -Boson hardly called out kush. I made a case. I was not tunnelling. (but I see that is the misconception you are trying to present) If by some miracle he flips green there is still a lot of info to go off. Your premise iswrong and thus your conclusions are wrong. I was calling out Kush for good reason? and at the same time Debears was entirely reasonable in shutting that down? ##FoS ALSN Given the evidence so far no, I don't, and frankly I don't see why that's so hard to believe. Given his history, it should be easy to see for anyone that while he has different town and scum metas(as pointed out by Hapahauli in the obs QT of NMMXVII), his comments so far this game is entirely in line with the way he usually posts during D1. Basically just writing up whatever is on his mind. That to me doesn't really increase or decrease the chances of him flipping either way(but the setup of the game says all else being equal, 75% of the players are green, 25% are scum) Yes, you called him out for good reason because his arguments(like so many times before this game) make little to no sense. But right now the only thing I really agree actually points to him being scum is what you call his scum slip. I just do not agree with you of just how damning that statement is. The first thing that sprang to mind when I saw you quoting that was simply that townie was an odd word to use, why not use player? But a confirmed scum slip? Come on, it's not like he said something that is entirely outside the realm of possibility for a town player to say. "Townie" wouldn't be the word I'd use, but I just can't see it as that obvious a scum slip. I'll accept that you are not necessarily wrong for thinking so however. Meta: I’m curious about this post because I disagree. I made a post later regarding how I think it didn’t match his town meta, a post you didn’t reply to (basically I think he has shown to be more aggressive, inflammatory and posted more pure crap as scum). Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 17:56 Alsn wrote:
There is no explanation for his town read on me. The only reason he would say that is if he was scum.
This last part seems to overly simplify the matter to me. The only reason? I myself can see a few reasons, but I would like kush to reply himself before I comment further as I don't want to give him an easy out. Scum slip: Now that Kush is lynched, could you explain what those easy outs you thought of were? I’m really not seeing what easy outs you'd see for Kush straight up calling his attacker townie. Not only do I find your reasons for defending Kush weird, but to me they seem contradictory. Particularly when you claim that he is “basically just writing up whatever is on his mind” (which I think is true to a certain extent). If that’s your meta read on Kush, it would make all sense in the world that the scum slip is an actual scum slip. Typing what’s on your mind is exactly what results in a scum slip like that. So you’re using his meta to make null read on Kush's aggressive and nonsensical posts (which I disagree with) and you downplay his scum slip although it contradicts your meta read. To me this seems like slips in logic in made in order to defend Kush, a defense I now realize is both direct and indirect . Notice how a half of his case is a poorly reasoned argument about the timing of Alsn's departure and kush's implosion. It is an argument based on assumptions. Next, he found it weird that Alsn defended kush (which had already been explained a bunch). However, he finds Alsn guilty of something that he had found me innocent of. Alsn had stated multiple times that he was trying to keep the whole town from tunneling kush, which is something that I also said. However, SDM only used that argument to clear me. Notice how all his cases except Djo: (Omni, me, Alsn, SS/Corrosion) are points already brought up. Most of the time he just differently words an argument that has already been presented. The Lynch or Lack ThereofThe events leading up to the lynch are a major scumslip in my book on SDM, He shriveled up into an indecisive shell at last moment. Yet, he wanted it that way. Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 19:55 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:On October 02 2012 18:10 DarthPunk wrote:
Also. We need to consolidate on Either Alsn or Debears. I am happy with either. Would mildly prefer a debears lynch. But I think both are scummy as shit.
So. Who are we going to Consolidate onto? Z- Boson? SDM? thoughts?
I'm leaning Alsn and I'm hoping to have time to explain why with a good amount of time to the lynch. I agree about the consolidating, but I don't think we're in a hurry. With an early concensus it's easier for scum to blend in, whereas if we wait they'll potentially face the pressure of a bus or save situation (or wait until the last minute to make a decision, which is scummy looking). . However, when it comes to the situation he wants, a last minute switch, he refuses to lynch me to gain information based on the sudden vote changes, which could immensely help the town. 1) It clears the confusion over me being scum or town 2) It gives a better indication of who is scum based on the reaction to the sudden voteswing. Let's start with the beginning of the confusion Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 01:41 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:On October 06 2012 01:25 debears wrote:
@Djo
Considering you were third on my scum list, and numbers 1(Omni) and 2 (SS) aren't sensible lynches atm, you are now my top scumread. Omni will most likely get modkilled. SS has posted a case using a similar line of thinking that I did earlier. Also, he took head on the most/2nd most townie person here. What kind of scum would do that when the scum could focus on me, omni, you, or stutters and get easy mislynches?
You, on the other hand, sheeped onto his case, which would be easy for mafia to do, as SS would take the blame. You just repeat Shady's reasoning, and now when Z-Bo attacks you, you instead just transfer back to me after FOSing Z-Bo. Your actions don't make sense from a townie perspective. They make plenty from mafia perspective.
That, considering the rest of your actions this game, give me a strong mafia read.
##Vote: Djodref Consider that we need to consolidate 5 votes on one player. If Stutters and Omni doesn't show up and Shady doesn't return, the only ones we can consolidate on seems to be Stutters and Omni. Obviously Stutters isn't an option, which leaves Omni. And Omni is a cancerous lurker and scummy as hell.
But if Stutters and Omni doesn't show up they might be modkilled anyway. Or is this even guaranteed? What a fucked up situation. I don't understand this post. Instead of talking about whether a player is scummy, he starts rambling on whether others will show up Instead he latches onto Omni, a target we were pretty sure would be modkilled. Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:03 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
I just finished reading his filter and I basically found same case I posted n1 and then him all acting indecisive today. Fuck, I don't know, these last minutes switches make me uneasy. I was starting to get more of town vibe from him until today. More indecisiveness, although this was the exact scenario he wanted so he could get some reads on voting. Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:12 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
Meh, I still like Omni better though. What if he comes back back, how many are willing to switch?
##Unvote He unvotes Djo, citing that he liked Omni better. We had already discussed the scenario of voting for Omni if he comes back. Yet, SDM still acts confused. Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:23 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:On October 06 2012 03:21 debears wrote:
Yeah you're right SDM
If mafia claimed cop, and they were godfather, they would know there's a cop.
If mafia was a framer, they would know there's a cop.
If mafia was a goon, they would be risking a claim on the fact that there would not be a cop when there still could be I've seen setups with miller without a rolechecker in earlier newbies (or some game on TL, not sure what), don't think you can reason this way.
Seem like a high % legit claim, is there any way to be 100%? This was about the cop claim. SDM brings up a distracting, pointless question that he knows the answer to. The only way to be 100% on a cop claim is 1) a lynch of the cop 2) a scum lynch that the cop points out. Since 2) was not an option due to no red reads, lynching Djo would've been the only answer. SDM knows this. He is a good player that does not suddenly go full retard like this unless its for a reason. Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:50 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:On October 06 2012 03:39 debears wrote:
@SDM
How so? I could see it if we were talking 2 scum left. Is this under the assumption that there isn't a godfather and instead a framer or goon lefT?
If you work with probabilities it means the chance is lower, but of course you never know. Kind of like when you play poker and hit a pretty good hand, the chance of you winning is higher but you never know. Worst analogy ever. Next, he keeps the topic off who to lynch. he keeps talking about the probability of the claim being true, which is a moot point at that time. Notice how he keeps avoiding the topic of who we should lynchShow nested quote +On October 06 2012 04:22 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:How many are still around? And wtf happened to Boson? He dropped a huge ass case and then poof. Still nothing on who we should lynch. Just asking if people are around. On October 06 2012 04:16 RemedySC wrote:
Well Z-bo or Debears would probably give us the most information, since Omni is likely to be modkilled.
What do you think SDM? My biggest scum read is set up for a modkill. Shady just got peeked and I wasn't entirely convinced before hand either. Next on my list would be Debears but I haven't given him much thought today until all this happened. Wasn't convinced about the Boson case and my state of mind isn't optimal for great decision making right now. I wouldn't mind a no lynch. Look hard at this post. Look really hard. He knows his biggest scum read is going to get modkilled at this point, yet his still wants to vote for him. He says he doesn't know on Shady. And finally, HE HASN"T GIVEN LYNCHING ME MUCH THOUGHT AFTER I WAS A HEADLINE ALL GAME IN THE SCUMREADS UNTIL RIGHT BEFORE LYNCH????That is bs. Total bs. He is definitely lying there. Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 04:29 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
If no one's here and want to push anything other than a no lynch I'm going to sleep. I'm really really tired. Alright. Let's summarize his lynch thoughts 1) Indecisive 2) Wants a No lynch 3) Becomes extremely confused 4) Disappears right after his WTF post Now, let's look at townie and mafia motivations 1) Town - He is actually confused. He believes that SS and Me might be town. He believes that Omni may still pop up. Problems with this thought - We all said we would be willing to switch back to Omni if he suddenly showed up to avoid modkill. But btw SS and me, town has to lynch one of us! SS might be town or might be scum. Either way, we need to clarify his alignment. The same is for me (from your guy's angle, I am town). SDM knows this. By taking out one of us, it would have led to more information for town at a stage where we can afford a mislynch. I needed 1 more vote for a lynch. Yet, SDM sits there, suddenly becoming the most indecisive player in the world despite what appeared to be a very good game in which everyone saw him as town. 2) Mafia - By keeping, SS and me(especially me) around, a mafia has the opportunity to take advantage of the confusion it will create for town. He can get away with nks that will easily be blamed on me and SS until our alignments are cleared up. He can act on the confusion in the thread and hide behind not forcing a vote (despite the fact that he stated earlier that he wanted a last minute vote situation). SDM, you're looking pretty scummy right now ##unvote
##vote: Sonic Death MonkeyAll I ask from all the town that is left is to look at this case multiple times. Read SDM's filter. After I get lynched, I feel that SDM is the most likely scum. JUST READ WITH TOWNIE GOGGLES FOR NOW. VOTE ME. LYNCH ME. AND THEN TAKE HIM DOWN.
So either you got comfortable as scum or you are just degrading your game.
I had to do some things, will read more carefully now.
Wake the fuck up guys, I'm getting lynched in a completely lazy and stupid way. A case based solely on meta is worthless. Read my case on thrawn for crying out loud. "Not lynching replacements" is a dumb way to go about it. Thrawn's meta is indisputably off (someone said RL reasons. Well, my reasons are also RL..) and ASIDE FROM THAT. His play is completely scummy and incoherent.
This town is getting lazy lazy. All it takes to avoid a mislynch on me is to fucking read and fucking think.
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On November 18 2012 02:03 debears wrote:
1) miller claim is a null tell
2) bh claimed because he's an idiot or scum. You're trying to take credit for it? Lol
3) wifomwfiomwifom
4) wifomwifomwifom
5) exactly. If you were town trying to survive, why wouldnt you vote for someone you realistically would believe would be lynched? If you were scum, you couldve thougjt it would help clear hapa if yoi got lynched with your vote on him
This guy knows whats up.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
ok, so it turns out im gonna be here via phone basically until lynch. current thoughts
ZB is scummiest, willing to lynch SnB
Djoref opting out of town discourse-- this is not acceptable. would lynch if not replacement today
still havent provided a serious read on clarity, i know, but will reread filter when home to determine-- still dont like that he sided with me D1 but will have to read his reasoning
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On November 18 2012 06:25 Hopeless1der wrote:ZB, besides meta, a big reason I want to lynch you is I fully agree that you were WIFOM bombing like DP said. Particularly damning are these two quotes, sequential in your filter: Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 09:18 Z-BosoN wrote:
Allrighty back.
Dammit BH, I really think you should have saved your claim until later, you gave up too easily :/
I wasn't as certain on you as it might have seemed, but I wanted to gauge your reaction by throwing you against the wall.
Anyways, here's what I think of this game so far.
marv is likely town. He's a difficult town read to give, but his posting here seems genuine, and is much different than in GSL. Either he's trying much harder as scum or he's town. For now I'll go with the latter.
Clarity is likely town. Just look at him being all cute under a major dirt-flinging fest. I'm townie, and so must be BH right now, so if I know my XXX analysis straight, scum hate posting during these sort of fightsituations, and It's harder for me to see scum posting during all of that like he did.
Kickstart is likely town. He seems very genuine with his thoughts, and his posts, to me, seem townie-oriented.
iamp is likely town. If his entire 180 attention-drawing isn't enough, then his activeness during all of this also indicate to me he is town.
This is how I feel right now regarding townsfolk.
Originally I had SnB down as town, but I feel he is null right now to me, I dunno, have a hard time reading him. Would (maybe?) give a town read on him?
Thrawn is null to me. I can't see him being this quiet either as townie or as scum. He really really has to explain himself or be replaced thoug...
Crossfire is afk.
Now towards the scummers
Hapauli. Much quieter this game. Much less present. Disappeared during all of my interaction with BH, only to appear after the claim. I don't buy his cases, especially the one on iamp. Completely ignored my first case on BH, and town Hapa usually comments on everything. In the beginning, put on some light pressure on DP, then unvoted him from some easy explanation only to never mention him again. Not a play I'd see hapa do.
debears. Began the game with excessive posting, made a poor sheepy follow-up on iamp. Disappeared and has drastically reduced his posting. Seems pretty damn scummy.
DarthPunk Doesn't have much to work with, is likely working on the other game. I find it weird how little attention he's getting from some of the scummier folk. A bad tell, but he's here mostly by elimination.
Hopeless1der Not sure of his play yet. It's comparable to that of LVII, but I can see him as scum. Dunno.
These are just my thoughts, mainly to get discussion going and for BH to see what he thinks (there's still a chance he's scum, but I'm assuming he is town for now).
I haven't decided who I want to lynch yet, these are just my thoughts from my current level of reading. Tomorrow I'll be back probably with more powerful cases. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:I'm down to lynching hopeless1der. No comment on BHI find this point, mentioned before, to be quite good. He not only didn't mention BH's claim, but he attacked someone for not mentioning it. It sounds very contrived and doesn't seem to have strong town motivation at all. MetaWhat seals the deal for me is his meta from the last game I played with him, LVII. From the start, his game has been very different. Observe one of his entrance posts: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=21#402Note that he is aggressive and makes a case right off the bat against forumite. BAM. Vote. Doesn't give a shit. Is assertive, aggressive. What of this game? Look at his only post that comes close to being significant. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=22#438Makes a big post, doesn't conclude shit. Seems just like the ordinary "look at me scumhunting". In this game he shows a weaker, less assertive version of him in LVII. He has a bunch of posts going after debears, and he's not going anywhere with it.. He only votes debears when debears is already a viable candidate, has two votes on him. Here is his voting post: On November 14 2012 22:16 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 14 2012 14:54 debears wrote:
For all you who think me being afk is a scumtell, which you guys are retarded if you do
Let me just say this once. Fuck off debears. Nothing personal, but in all seriousness OMGUS. I'm still your scum read because I've done nothing since you laid into me for 'lecturing town'. If you still want to harp on that chord, you're not being a good little townie. I was afk for longer than you were, and you have nothing new to post in the thread. I'll lay this out for you. This is the post I was "lecturing" about: On November 13 2012 10:49 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 10:44 marvellosity wrote:
you can't active lurk in a game that's less than 2 hours old, numbnuts.
If anyone's 'active lurking' it's me. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Don't shut people down who are obviously trying their best to scum hunt and contribute. You are only going to discourage those things. Or is that what you want? I was not lecturing everyone, I was responding to a single post and listing multiple examples of less than stellar reasons to vote for someone. I was told to drop it with you so you could focus on the rest of the game instead, because I was distracting you from being useful. On November 14 2012 00:17 marvellosity wrote:
Hopeless, I think you're making too much of that. The bit you bold says "was" - past tense, that was his stance previously (when he'd missed my Crossfire post).
Like debears said just now there's not a lot to say about Crossfire otherwise, you can't really have a stance on someone who hasn't posted yet.
The whole issue is overblown and should be dropped. If only because it's a big distraction to debears, who has to keep talking about it, and it's not helping anyone And yet I'm still your top scum read and iamperfection is still the only other player you'll really talk about. You haven't commented on anything significant (neither have I yet, but fuck it, you're already voting me) I dont give a shit what your IRL issues are, same as you probably dont care why I was gone. I care that you claim that there are no better cases than the one on me when you have no new information and are just stuck on the fact that I'm afk and therefore avoiding you. What's more, you aren't even pushing me as your scum read. Yes this is an OMGUS vote. ##Vote: debearsAm I going to need to pull a BH and shoot my load earl--I mean sift through my own meta to find examples of me being a jackass? Btw debears, why in the hell were you unable/unwilling to comment on BH's claim? Basically votes on debears for not pushing his top scum read. Doesn't add any of the the other arguments he used here. That does not sound like anyone who's scum hunting. He says his vote is OMGUS, and states ONE reason for pursuing debears. He spends a long time focusing on debears but never actually voting. This, of course, much unlike his own play in LVII. Look at how he treats his cases in LVII, and how greatly it contrasts with his play this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=51#1015http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=51#1013He's using every single argument he had already made, and is being a LOT more insistent and convincing than that. I'm not the best judge of meta, but that is in too great a contrast with his play on this game, in my opinion. Why not debears?I've done some thinking on this and I'm not sure he's scum. Hapa's main argument of not pushing his scumreads are decent, but I've mislynched people on that count before. Judging by his play, and comparing that to his last game as scum, I don't see it being too similar. When he was scum, his posts were much longer. In day one, he spent a lot of time writing out big cases and looked much townier (lol, weird, but true). I can see him sheeping on iamp with that kind of mentality, based on such a weak argument. I think scum debears would rather make his own case on someone and be happy with it. Why not DarthPunk?He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though. ConclusionI find hopeless' contrast in meta much worse in this game. He's being useless and much less present than in LVII. Read his filter there, read it here, and see if you come to the same conclusion I did. He doesn't look like he's trying to get debears lynched. Especially how much effort he put on in LVII. ##Vote Hopeless1der Not because of who you voted, or even how you explained your vote. Its how you explained why you wouldn't vote the others. Hapa isn't mentioned. It's too conspicuous. I feel very good about lynching you today. In addition, given that you claimed miller, it would have been an appropriate time to mention your choice to change up your meta. Whether or not its true is not the problem, its the fact that it was used as a crutch to try and save yourself. You used your 'intentional meta shift' as a player might claim miller as its getting close to their lynch. Its scummy because you withheld information from town and then used that information to try to manipulate a case made against you. It does matter that you pre-empted Marv's case with this explanation, and I consider marv and BH's meta reads on you to be both accurate and condemning.
What? Why couldn't it have been my actual reads?? I agree of the possibility of a WIFOM bomb, but you can't use that as an argument when it can go both ways. You also didn't read this:
On November 18 2012 00:57 Z-BosoN wrote:Oh, found something. This should pretty much kill DP's genious WIFOM bomb theory: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=68#1350Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:50 Z-BosoN wrote:
Also, if anyone is thinking of voting me, it is becasue you are blindly sheeping marv. Fucking read my defense, FUCKING READ WHAT I SAID REGARDING MY META. FUCKING READ WHAT HAPA SAID. It's a case based SOLELY ON META
DP is acting VERY differently then when he is scum gettingl ynched. I want to unvote him and vote for hopeless.
Also, if I for some godly reason to get lynched. Here are my reads:
Hapa: scum scum scum. Gonna go after him day 2 should I live.
BH probably scum. I can't fathom his claim AT ALL. Kill him should he be alive in like, day 3.
Rest of everybody I'm not sure. Marv is prob town, an arrogant fucking one who can't see the reasonable explanation I've given, but he's pretty much town.
This post here took me around 2-3 minutes to make (that's the time I sent my previous one). I made it out of anger, and couldn't have given it much thought given the circumstance. (1)Not much thought. The vote count which showed (6-6 on DP/me) came at that time, @10:47 and I didn't see it. Here, I wasn't expecting to get lynched. I say "if by some ungodly reason I get lynched...". That means that it looked like I had the possibility of getting lynched, but I made that post without feeling like it was a confirmed fact. (2)Wasn't expecting to necessarily get lynchedSo, with (1) and (2) , I made a post that said this: I wasn't expecting to get lynched, necessarily, when making this post. I had little time to mkae this post. This means that I was already thinking hapa was scum. This also means that I would have to be committing myself to spend day 2 bussing hapa. This is even more nonsense then me giving out two scum buddies needlessly. It's clear from my post and from the context that I wasn't 100% dead yet (as I could have assumed in the time I supposedly "WIFOMED" when there were 8 votes on me.) and that would mean me committing myself to bussing hapa during the entirety of day two. A LOT has to happen for me to be scum here. The simplest explanation is that I'm town, my meta was a self-made and self-aware change - to which I have proof of (which is getting heavily heavily ignored by our brick-headed friends) - and actually thought hapa was scum (even showed signs of that earlier).
I think that counters that idiot notion of a WIFOM bomb pretty well.
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Some choice updates on my thinking of some of the players in the game-
Clarity- Im leaning stronger to the town side based on his actions through this cycle. Seems to be very engaged and looks like he is trying to figure things out. Also true story when i was reading the thread all day from my phone at work i was thinking where is that fucker kickstart and as soon as i refreshed the page i saw clarity saying the same thing that i was thinking. Shows he has a healthy suspicion of almost everyone and doesn't rule out every possibility even if he thinks the person is likely town.
BH- An enigma. The stupid claim still makes me think the most likely argument is that he is in fact the jk. Some of the things that have come out of his mouth have absolutely flabbergasted me but what are you going to do. If he is town i can look down on him from now on if he is scum we will get him eventually i think. So either way win win for the perfect one. Still more likely to be jk i say though.
more to come
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On November 18 2012 06:34 iamperfection wrote:
If he is town i can look down on him from now on
go eat a mountain of turds
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
that claim 1) saved my life and also 2) i lynched hapa im playing great this game did you see my case on zb
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On November 18 2012 06:28 Z-BosoN wrote:No debears, you don't: + Show Spoiler +On October 07 2012 16:23 debears wrote:Aright guys, I'm gonna put something new into the thread. Considering that Djo and Z-Bo are pretty much confirmed at this point, I was wondering why we are having so much trouble this game with finding the last mafia. My conclusions: The last mafia is playing a hell of a game. Looking at this, I've been wondering who is capable of this. At this point, I'd see Z-Bo, SDM, and SS. Z-Bo is confirmed. SS has said some scummy things and is at threat of being lynched. However, one person has managed to avoid the spotlight throughout the whole game. He has not had anyone actually attack (besides Z-Bo day 1, but that was an argument over the validity of my defense of SDM early). That person is SDM. Recently, his refusal to vote me in the lynch set off some alarms in my head. I've looked through his filter and found some things that don't make townie sense. The Association with KushAfter SDM hardcore shut down kush and voted kush, pointing out multiple scumslips, this is all that kush had to say to him + Show Spoiler +On September 29 2012 06:33 kushm4sta wrote:
sdm you make no sense. I tried hard not to make scumslips last game. this game I did not. because I am not scum.
I don't know if any of you guys have had this experience but when everyone wants to lynch you and you are definitely going to get lynxhed, it just feels like why am I going to waste my time writing cases and making arguments for this shitty town. that's gonna kill me anyway.
I'm actually starting to hope I get lynched to teach town a lesson.. all scums put your votes right here. easiest d1 ever I hope you guys win. Notice how kush does not flame, OMGUS, or insult SDM in any manner here. This is the only time kush addresses Sonic, and he does it in a neutral manner. Compare that to the reactions of kush to Dp ( town), Z-Bo ( town), and Stutters ( town) when they all accused him. To me, Kush made a defense. The only neutral reaction he had to his early accusers is SDM. What this indicates to me is that kush was expecting SDM to attack him, making his post not a reaction but a response to an accusation he knew knew was coming. Overconfidence
Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 04:59 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:In my mind these are good reasons to be suspicious of Debears. We most certainly need to push for more information from other players as well though. If XXVII thaught me anything it was that I have a tendency to get way overconfident in my reads. This is actually wrong. If anything, it should have taught SDM to be more confident in his reads. He had me pinned down but let me off the hook last game. He stopped pursuing me because of a misunderstanding of thrawn's lynch the last lurker comment. Show nested quote +On October 04 2012 01:46 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
Yeah I agree. I don't think it's guaranteed, overconfidence is a bitch, but it looks like a good start. Another quote talking about overconfidence. This is about not getting too confident in the endgame and losing because of it. The weird thing is that SDM disappeared after the lynch, on a weekend when he should have more time than the week. Yet, he hasn't posted anything. Is he overconfident? Seems like it. I don't know why either since the whole town has been spinning around in circles since the kush lynch. Time and IndecisionRecently, SDM has been saying that he hasn't had time to look over filters + Show Spoiler +On October 05 2012 23:18 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:D2 voting: Debears by Darth 1-0 Debears by Djo 2-0 Alsn by Darth 1-1 Debears by Alsn 2-1 Debears by Omni 3-1 Alsn by SDM 3-2 Alsn by Debears 3-3 Debears by Boson 4-3 Alsn by Shady 4-4 Unvote + BotN by Boson 3-4 Alsn by Remedy 3-5 Alsn by Djo 2-6 Alsn by Stutters 2-7 Alsn by Boson 2-8 I'd need my conspiracy goggles on to see Boson pushing Alsn here. Read the links, it doesn't looks like Boson tries to nudge the decision in Debears favor. The case doesn't necessarily hinge on this, but it makes it considerably weaker. I'd need more time to read filters... For someone who has a pretty large filter, time doesn't seem to be a problem for SDM. He continued to post during this time, although he needed more to look at filters. + Show Spoiler +On October 05 2012 21:55 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 20:46 Shady Sands wrote:On October 05 2012 20:39 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
But it still makes no sense to me. You assume Boson is scum, thus Debears can't be scum and thus Boson must be scum. Your assumption is your conclusion. No I know Alsn is town. I know ZB is trying to avoid pushing hard for a Debears lynch D2/3 even though he pushed a Debears lynch D1. Thus ZB's case on Debears feels insincere. Thus most of the case on Debears gets thrown out by me. At the same time, I ask why ZB would want to push for a D1 Debears lynch even over Kush. Answer: Save Kush since Lesrah is AFK. I also ask why ZB would suddenly back away D2/D3. Answer: Avoid having town realize that the D1 push on Debears was a mislynch, accrue towncred, survive till endgame. I cannot find any townie motivation why ZB would flip from pushing Debears over Kush D1 to accepting Alsn D2 and FoSing half the town over Debears D3. That's actually an interesting case. It's true Boson ignored the Kush case d1. He had a good case on Debears imo, so I didn't really find it weird he was pushing his own case (we all tend to be biased towards our own cases, at least that's true for me). I need to go back and look up his filter myself. He did switch to Alsn and I can't remember his reasonings. I feel like the individual pieces of evidence you have are not that strong, but they paint an interesting picture. One question I have right off the bat, if it was all a big master plan, why did he initially vote for Debears d2? Seems like it could've caused the noose battle to become one-sided. Anyway, I'll go back and check his filter, I'm not 100% sure of those events. What do you think of the Omni case? Having to read both of your filters I doubt I'll have time to make up my mind on this and I still like it. Yet again, he says he won't be able to make up his mind on stuff since he doesn't have time. Notice the indecisive tone of those posts. Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 23:34 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:On October 05 2012 22:55 Z-BosoN wrote:
EBWOP lynch him the next day if we decide he is scum.
Also, sdm. Save my filter for the night. If you don't have enough time, decide between SS and djodref. This idea to bring up a ridiculous case on me in late day 3 when I'm not even a lynch choice is typical shady's dumb thinking, which mostly manifests itself when he is town. Also, doint ignore the fact he ignored your case.
Anyways, I'm leaning slight town on him (plus, corrosion bothered writing a list before he left, as if he genuinely wants to help town. I feel if he were scum, he would just abandon this game and not care). omni seems scummy but is a wasteful lynch if he gets nodkilled, so that only leaves djodref, from my pov. Now that, from a skim of his filter, I can definitely see him as sxum, I want to lynch him atm. I have no idea what to make out of all this. It doesn't look like a bad case but I'm having a feeling the more I look into it, the more farfetched it becomes. Or you are fucking genius. I mean, both the d1 against Debears and the d2 case against Alsn are good. All of us found them so good we voted at least one of them. I'm still leaning Omni, since he's both very scummy and a complete lurker. but I still got a few more minutes to read filters. More indecisiveness. At this point, SDM seems to be falling apart for no reason. There are more of them...I'm putting them in a spoiler right here if you want to read the rest + Show Spoiler +On October 05 2012 20:49 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
I need to grap some food and reread all this stuff, my head is spinning. For now...
##Unvote On October 05 2012 20:23 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 16:41 Z-BosoN wrote:
This is very intriguing...
Thanks for that post SS, it brought out some very interesting reactions.
Of course, your case is laughable, as usual.
Of course, as scum, I would want to switch my vote towards a townie, in favor of, let's see, another townie. I will definitely bother producing a fuckton of text just for that.
Anyways, djodref managed to be even worse. Please reread your points against me, and think of how they could come from me as scum. Think about what your FOS accomplishes for town here today. I'll be accepting donations to make up for you making my eyes bleed.
If Omni doesn't answer, it's either debears/djodref/SS imo. Pointless lynching a modkill. Will decide come tomorrow, I gotta go sleep.
SDM, I'd love to know your input on who you'd rather lynch save Omni.
I'm sleepy as hell and will go to sleep, but probably during class tomorrow I'm gonna make up my mind.
RSC, same thing.
Gnight!
Not sure, Shady was my second pick until my brain just recently exploded. Djo's FOS was totally of the blue but I don't necessarily see a strong mafia motivation. If he's mafia maybe he wanted an easy wagon on you and backed off once Debears and I replied? Seems kind of unlikely. On October 05 2012 15:39 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 14:30 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
Is this the point where you disappear again? Confirmed. I'll just say right away I'm not jumping a late Boson wagon, at least not if those are the arguments. Shady's post is a joke, what does this even mean? Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 14:19 Shady Sands wrote:
his unvote of Debears and transfer to Alsn is also wierd I have no idea what's going on here. On October 05 2012 13:53 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
I'm pretty thrawn suggested in XXVII that scum is more likely to be talking about the NK rationale of scum. I don't think I've seen that myself though so I'm not sure whether it's true. Probably not, night actions seems like a rather common talking point in newbie games. There are posts where SDM just goes on an explanation and doesn't settle on an opinion. Scum like using these kinds of post to make it look like they are actually saying something when they aren't + Show Spoiler +On October 03 2012 20:43 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
I don't know what to make of Debears post-d2 posts because it's putting me in total WIFOM mode and I should probably just ignore it.
But disregarding his last posts which obviously could be the result of leveling, is his case stronger than the one I just made? Maybe it's the excitement of novelty, but really? At least I'd say Debears play has been way more pro-town. He has his scummy-looking inconsistneies for sure, but at the same time he was aggressive d1. He tried making cases, get the thread started. He took attention because he was willing to, compare that to Omni who's just cruising by. At least I encourage you to pop out of the Debears bubble we've all been in to look at it.
Also, to Debears benefit, does scum really hang on this long when faced by pages and pages of accusations? I know I gave in quickly in XXVI because it seemed pointless. And look at Kush's reaction. That's the only examples I have myself from experience, maybe Debears is different. And maybe you can question if a townie would hang in this long. At least Alsn did. On October 05 2012 13:46 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 13:04 RemedySC wrote:On October 01 2012 05:56 Omniscient4983 wrote:Thoughts on night actions:On October 01 2012 05:14 DarthPunk wrote:
LOL. Seems scum really went for it. Nice medic save! I'm guessing scum targeted Darth, and the medic saved him. He was the obvious candidate for NK, but the mafia tried to kill him anyway despite there being a high chance that a medic would be on him. This means that scum is desperate to get Darth out of the game. Why? Not only was he correct about Kush, but he gave his 3 top scum reads during the night in this order:
Debears
Djodref
AlsnFrom my perspective: since scum targeted Darth, one of his three reads has a high likelihood of being correct. If he was headed in the wrong direction with these reads, scum would have taken out someone else and let him lead us astray. Attempting to NK Darth was a huge risk, but I believe it's one scum had to take because he was so on track, and having him alive would spell their doom in the end.What does everyone else think? Why have such an out of the blue description of what could have happened? He seems to know a lot about what scum would have done in this situation. For mafia motivation I can see him trying to lead us to three lynches, which we've already done one. I know Drazak slipped his medic role in XXVI after his night action and Xatalos picked up on it (that's why I don't really like blue role discussions after night actions). This is not how he slipped though, Drazak slipped it by talking about the rationale of the medic. I feel like this could easily just be scum trying to passively suggest three mislynches (we should lynch Debears, Djodref and Alsn, not because I want to but because Darth wants to) or just a green speculating. Or possibly a medic, but the risk of him being medic AND missing to save Darth seems rather low to me. You need two rather low probability events to coincide for that to be true.
Basically I just don't make much out of this post. Notice how in both posts, SDM just revolves around an idea, citing it from each perspective and then jsut sayiing all of them are equally as likely. No actual insight ContributionsGoing back through SDM's thread, I considered what were his unique cases and scumreads? The only one I actually found was Djo's case. However, SDM quickly dropped the case once suspicion on Djo picked up + Show Spoiler +On October 01 2012 22:09 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
My main focus for today will be Debears, Djo and Alsn. Djo has already responded to the case presented yesterday. The individual evidence presented earlier matches the actions of how I would expect newbie scum to play, but for whatever it’s worth my “feel read” is that he’s coming off as quite genuine. I’ve also been going through his recent posts and can’t seem to find any obvious contridictions or inconcistencies in his explanations. It’s all newbie based explanation that could be made up ex-post but a newbie scum is likely to have fucked up at least some part of the defense, so if this is an innocent newbie charade he’s playing it off rahter well.
I’m feeling a bit uneasy going for a Djo lynch and for now I’m leaning towards Alsn or Debears being the better candidates. Both have been posting a metric shit ton lately so I've got my hands full going through everything. I’m looking to complete that half-finished thought I threw out on Alsn yesterday and have a better idea of which lynch I’m liking later today. So, instead of going for his main case, he decides to turn onto me and Alsn, the easy cases. Let's look at his contribution to the Alsn case. + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +On October 02 2012 04:04 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 01 2012 02:36 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
I tried to collect my thoughts regarding the Alsn case and I realized when I first commented my perception of the timeline of events was off.
On my first read through of the thread, I found Alsn being generally suspicious of everything (overall a town trait) and he had been fucking up with regards to some of the information (perhaps not what I'd expect of Alsn given what I've seen of him before, but I don't find it too weird). Alsn was pretty much a null read to me. Anyway, I went back to look at Alsn's filter.
In his first post, which happens around 11 hours after the start of the game, he makes a long ass post about his thoughts on Kush. This in itself might be suspicious to some people, but having played with Kush in XXVI and XXVII he was probably the one player I was thinking the most about who to handle pre-game so I don't find it too weird. In his next post, one hour later, he has read up on the thread and recognizes that Kush has been playing like he Alsn had been afraid he would. He FOS Kush but says he's not convinced.
Anyway, when I said I wasn't convinced of the case, I had messed up the timeline of events. I thought Alsn's posts indirectly defending Kush happened not long before Kush completely blew up. If that was the case, I would've found it weird for Kush to blow up soon after his scum buddy showed him support. It seems now that Kush blew up at a later stage when Alsn wasn't around the thread, so that nullifies the argument I thought I had against the case.
I felt it was best to put it out there because if I happen to get killed off I don't want to leave with the impression I had some well thought out objection to the Alsn case. I still need to finish reading Alsn's filter and look at the case again, but I won't have time to do it until tomorrow. So yeah, not only did this turn out not to be an argument in favor of Alsn, but the timings makes sense for him being scum. Kush’s posts are actually most reasonable when Alsn is around and he later blows up after Alsn leaves with this post: + Show Spoiler +On September 29 2012 03:50 Alsn wrote:
Would just like to say that I'm going to bed a little early today. Will be up in the morning(~12-14 hours before lynch) and making some posts and then on and off until lynch but without major "leaves of absence". Here's hoping that no one is still lurking when I wake up. This in itself isn’t necessarily incriminating but worth noting. Anyway, I’ll focus more on your reasoning for defending Kush. I don’t think it’s been fully covered and reading your filter this is something that doesn’t make sense to me. Intro: + Show Spoiler +When Alsn makes his first post Kush is taking heat from Darth. The Kush case hadn’t really been built yet, but the information is there. This is something Alsn acknowledges in his second post. On September 28 2012 17:56 Alsn wrote:
Wow, upon reading the thread I realise that kush has been following the exact pattern I just now specified to be the way not to play if he wanted to absolve himself in my eyes. The OMGUS, the aggression, the flaming, the scum slip. Despite this, he’s going back on what he just said in his first post: On September 28 2012 16:54 Alsn wrote:
So to sum up, kush, I can definitely forgive you for your "style" of posting but I will not under any circumstance forgive you for posting shitty content And instead posts: On September 28 2012 17:56 Alsn wrote:
However, I definitely want to give him the benefit of the doubt and allow him to actually try and show that he has town's best interest in mind. So until then, while I definitely would like everyone to share their reads on kush so far, that is not enough for D1. We need to start exploring different possibilities because if we decide to lynch kush and he flips green, spending all of D1 talking about him will put us back at square one minus two townies.
I'll make another post within an hour or two on another topic as I think I've made myself perfectly clear on where I stand on kush, but right now I need breakfast. So he leaves saying he’s undecided on Kush, trying to steer the discussion in a different direction and if not, him having an easier bus decision (again, not incriminating in itself, but not my main point). Your main arguments for defending Kush is 1) his meta supporting his play and 2) the scum slip not being severe. To me that’s a really weird conclusion to make. Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 00:24 Alsn wrote:On September 28 2012 22:39 DarthPunk wrote:On September 28 2012 22:03 Alsn wrote:On September 28 2012 21:38 DarthPunk wrote:On September 28 2012 21:31 Alsn wrote:
he has pointed out that he doesn't agree with your tunneling of kush. I find it astonishing that you 'interpret' debears' post that way in context of your view of Z-Boson. The way in which you paraphrase things whilst obscuring the truth/ put your own angle on things has me very concerned. Astonishing how? I would like you to explain what's so amazingly pro-town about tunneling kush from the very beginning. I find the risks of that approach to be very high from a town perspective. There are two scenarios: A) He flips green, and unless he during the day completely changed his character we will have almost no way of distinguishing who among the people who pushed for his lynch were scum and who were town. B) He flips scum, at this point I just don't find that likely enough to risk A) happening. That fact alone is enough for me to see that post of debears as entirely reasonable, since both of you at the time were basically calling out kush for every single post he was making(for good reason, but not if that's the only thing you are doing). I was not just looking at Kush. I was looking at the reactions to my case on kush also, Namely debears. As far as I am concerned Kush is scum and therefore it is best for town to lynch him. I like to focus on one thing at a time. Especially when he is incredibly scummy and has SCUM SLIPPED It is a common scum hunting technique and has been recommended in Several postgames. Obviously It was not to the exclusion of all others because I am now looking at you and debears. If there was nothing to go on I would have changed tac. Turns out he is scum. So I try and get him lynched. Savvy? On September 28 2012 22:03 Alsn wrote:
That fact alone is enough for me to see that post of debears as entirely reasonable, since both of you at the time were basically calling out kush for every single post he was making(for good reason, but not if that's the only thing you are doing). So you don't find Kush likely to flip scum? good to know. Z -Boson hardly called out kush. I made a case. I was not tunnelling. (but I see that is the misconception you are trying to present) If by some miracle he flips green there is still a lot of info to go off. Your premise iswrong and thus your conclusions are wrong. I was calling out Kush for good reason? and at the same time Debears was entirely reasonable in shutting that down? ##FoS ALSN Given the evidence so far no, I don't, and frankly I don't see why that's so hard to believe. Given his history, it should be easy to see for anyone that while he has different town and scum metas(as pointed out by Hapahauli in the obs QT of NMMXVII), his comments so far this game is entirely in line with the way he usually posts during D1. Basically just writing up whatever is on his mind. That to me doesn't really increase or decrease the chances of him flipping either way(but the setup of the game says all else being equal, 75% of the players are green, 25% are scum) Yes, you called him out for good reason because his arguments(like so many times before this game) make little to no sense. But right now the only thing I really agree actually points to him being scum is what you call his scum slip. I just do not agree with you of just how damning that statement is. The first thing that sprang to mind when I saw you quoting that was simply that townie was an odd word to use, why not use player? But a confirmed scum slip? Come on, it's not like he said something that is entirely outside the realm of possibility for a town player to say. "Townie" wouldn't be the word I'd use, but I just can't see it as that obvious a scum slip. I'll accept that you are not necessarily wrong for thinking so however. Meta: I’m curious about this post because I disagree. I made a post later regarding how I think it didn’t match his town meta, a post you didn’t reply to (basically I think he has shown to be more aggressive, inflammatory and posted more pure crap as scum). Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 17:56 Alsn wrote:
There is no explanation for his town read on me. The only reason he would say that is if he was scum.
This last part seems to overly simplify the matter to me. The only reason? I myself can see a few reasons, but I would like kush to reply himself before I comment further as I don't want to give him an easy out. Scum slip: Now that Kush is lynched, could you explain what those easy outs you thought of were? I’m really not seeing what easy outs you'd see for Kush straight up calling his attacker townie. Not only do I find your reasons for defending Kush weird, but to me they seem contradictory. Particularly when you claim that he is “basically just writing up whatever is on his mind” (which I think is true to a certain extent). If that’s your meta read on Kush, it would make all sense in the world that the scum slip is an actual scum slip. Typing what’s on your mind is exactly what results in a scum slip like that. So you’re using his meta to make null read on Kush's aggressive and nonsensical posts (which I disagree with) and you downplay his scum slip although it contradicts your meta read. To me this seems like slips in logic in made in order to defend Kush, a defense I now realize is both direct and indirect . Notice how a half of his case is a poorly reasoned argument about the timing of Alsn's departure and kush's implosion. It is an argument based on assumptions. Next, he found it weird that Alsn defended kush (which had already been explained a bunch). However, he finds Alsn guilty of something that he had found me innocent of. Alsn had stated multiple times that he was trying to keep the whole town from tunneling kush, which is something that I also said. However, SDM only used that argument to clear me. Notice how all his cases except Djo: (Omni, me, Alsn, SS/Corrosion) are points already brought up. Most of the time he just differently words an argument that has already been presented. The Lynch or Lack ThereofThe events leading up to the lynch are a major scumslip in my book on SDM, He shriveled up into an indecisive shell at last moment. Yet, he wanted it that way. Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 19:55 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:On October 02 2012 18:10 DarthPunk wrote:
Also. We need to consolidate on Either Alsn or Debears. I am happy with either. Would mildly prefer a debears lynch. But I think both are scummy as shit.
So. Who are we going to Consolidate onto? Z- Boson? SDM? thoughts?
I'm leaning Alsn and I'm hoping to have time to explain why with a good amount of time to the lynch. I agree about the consolidating, but I don't think we're in a hurry. With an early concensus it's easier for scum to blend in, whereas if we wait they'll potentially face the pressure of a bus or save situation (or wait until the last minute to make a decision, which is scummy looking). . However, when it comes to the situation he wants, a last minute switch, he refuses to lynch me to gain information based on the sudden vote changes, which could immensely help the town. 1) It clears the confusion over me being scum or town 2) It gives a better indication of who is scum based on the reaction to the sudden voteswing. Let's start with the beginning of the confusion Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 01:41 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:On October 06 2012 01:25 debears wrote:
@Djo
Considering you were third on my scum list, and numbers 1(Omni) and 2 (SS) aren't sensible lynches atm, you are now my top scumread. Omni will most likely get modkilled. SS has posted a case using a similar line of thinking that I did earlier. Also, he took head on the most/2nd most townie person here. What kind of scum would do that when the scum could focus on me, omni, you, or stutters and get easy mislynches?
You, on the other hand, sheeped onto his case, which would be easy for mafia to do, as SS would take the blame. You just repeat Shady's reasoning, and now when Z-Bo attacks you, you instead just transfer back to me after FOSing Z-Bo. Your actions don't make sense from a townie perspective. They make plenty from mafia perspective.
That, considering the rest of your actions this game, give me a strong mafia read.
##Vote: Djodref Consider that we need to consolidate 5 votes on one player. If Stutters and Omni doesn't show up and Shady doesn't return, the only ones we can consolidate on seems to be Stutters and Omni. Obviously Stutters isn't an option, which leaves Omni. And Omni is a cancerous lurker and scummy as hell.
But if Stutters and Omni doesn't show up they might be modkilled anyway. Or is this even guaranteed? What a fucked up situation. I don't understand this post. Instead of talking about whether a player is scummy, he starts rambling on whether others will show up Instead he latches onto Omni, a target we were pretty sure would be modkilled. Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:03 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
I just finished reading his filter and I basically found same case I posted n1 and then him all acting indecisive today. Fuck, I don't know, these last minutes switches make me uneasy. I was starting to get more of town vibe from him until today. More indecisiveness, although this was the exact scenario he wanted so he could get some reads on voting. Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:12 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
Meh, I still like Omni better though. What if he comes back back, how many are willing to switch?
##Unvote He unvotes Djo, citing that he liked Omni better. We had already discussed the scenario of voting for Omni if he comes back. Yet, SDM still acts confused. Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:23 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:On October 06 2012 03:21 debears wrote:
Yeah you're right SDM
If mafia claimed cop, and they were godfather, they would know there's a cop.
If mafia was a framer, they would know there's a cop.
If mafia was a goon, they would be risking a claim on the fact that there would not be a cop when there still could be I've seen setups with miller without a rolechecker in earlier newbies (or some game on TL, not sure what), don't think you can reason this way.
Seem like a high % legit claim, is there any way to be 100%? This was about the cop claim. SDM brings up a distracting, pointless question that he knows the answer to. The only way to be 100% on a cop claim is 1) a lynch of the cop 2) a scum lynch that the cop points out. Since 2) was not an option due to no red reads, lynching Djo would've been the only answer. SDM knows this. He is a good player that does not suddenly go full retard like this unless its for a reason. Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:50 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:On October 06 2012 03:39 debears wrote:
@SDM
How so? I could see it if we were talking 2 scum left. Is this under the assumption that there isn't a godfather and instead a framer or goon lefT?
If you work with probabilities it means the chance is lower, but of course you never know. Kind of like when you play poker and hit a pretty good hand, the chance of you winning is higher but you never know. Worst analogy ever. Next, he keeps the topic off who to lynch. he keeps talking about the probability of the claim being true, which is a moot point at that time. Notice how he keeps avoiding the topic of who we should lynchShow nested quote +On October 06 2012 04:22 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:How many are still around? And wtf happened to Boson? He dropped a huge ass case and then poof. Still nothing on who we should lynch. Just asking if people are around. On October 06 2012 04:16 RemedySC wrote:
Well Z-bo or Debears would probably give us the most information, since Omni is likely to be modkilled.
What do you think SDM? My biggest scum read is set up for a modkill. Shady just got peeked and I wasn't entirely convinced before hand either. Next on my list would be Debears but I haven't given him much thought today until all this happened. Wasn't convinced about the Boson case and my state of mind isn't optimal for great decision making right now. I wouldn't mind a no lynch. Look hard at this post. Look really hard. He knows his biggest scum read is going to get modkilled at this point, yet his still wants to vote for him. He says he doesn't know on Shady. And finally, HE HASN"T GIVEN LYNCHING ME MUCH THOUGHT AFTER I WAS A HEADLINE ALL GAME IN THE SCUMREADS UNTIL RIGHT BEFORE LYNCH????That is bs. Total bs. He is definitely lying there. Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 04:29 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
If no one's here and want to push anything other than a no lynch I'm going to sleep. I'm really really tired. Alright. Let's summarize his lynch thoughts 1) Indecisive 2) Wants a No lynch 3) Becomes extremely confused 4) Disappears right after his WTF post Now, let's look at townie and mafia motivations 1) Town - He is actually confused. He believes that SS and Me might be town. He believes that Omni may still pop up. Problems with this thought - We all said we would be willing to switch back to Omni if he suddenly showed up to avoid modkill. But btw SS and me, town has to lynch one of us! SS might be town or might be scum. Either way, we need to clarify his alignment. The same is for me (from your guy's angle, I am town). SDM knows this. By taking out one of us, it would have led to more information for town at a stage where we can afford a mislynch. I needed 1 more vote for a lynch. Yet, SDM sits there, suddenly becoming the most indecisive player in the world despite what appeared to be a very good game in which everyone saw him as town. 2) Mafia - By keeping, SS and me(especially me) around, a mafia has the opportunity to take advantage of the confusion it will create for town. He can get away with nks that will easily be blamed on me and SS until our alignments are cleared up. He can act on the confusion in the thread and hide behind not forcing a vote (despite the fact that he stated earlier that he wanted a last minute vote situation). SDM, you're looking pretty scummy right now ##unvote
##vote: Sonic Death MonkeyAll I ask from all the town that is left is to look at this case multiple times. Read SDM's filter. After I get lynched, I feel that SDM is the most likely scum. JUST READ WITH TOWNIE GOGGLES FOR NOW. VOTE ME. LYNCH ME. AND THEN TAKE HIM DOWN. So either you got comfortable as scum or you are just degrading your game. I had to do some things, will read more carefully now. Wake the fuck up guys, I'm getting lynched in a completely lazy and stupid way. A case based solely on meta is worthless. Read my case on thrawn for crying out loud. "Not lynching replacements" is a dumb way to go about it. Thrawn's meta is indisputably off (someone said RL reasons. Well, my reasons are also RL..) and ASIDE FROM THAT. His play is completely scummy and incoherent. This town is getting lazy lazy. All it takes to avoid a mislynch on me is to fucking read and fucking think.
Firstly your case isn't based soley on meta.
Secondly meta is a very large part of what a lot of good players use to catch scum. I have read and I have thought and I don't agree.
I think it is best for town that you die. Even in the unlikely scenario that you are in fact town. We are not getting past this. We have mislynches to play with and lynching a miller claim that is playing scummy has higher odds of hitting scum than lynching S&B.
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On November 18 2012 06:37 Blazinghand wrote:
that claim 1) saved my life and also 2) i lynched hapa im playing great this game did you see my case on zb
yes i saw your case it was basically an expansion on what i said in one sentence and you made a fancy case around it. im well aware.
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Oh wow. ZB saying 'it can't be WIFOM because I knew was going to die'. (lol wat?)
And then saying 'It can't be WIFOM because I didn't think I was going to die'.
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I did read it. You should have been expecting to be lynched at the time of that post. You were the leader for the 10-15 minutes leading up to the lynch, right up until Hapa got bombed. Arguing that you didn't expect it is like saying BH's claim was a great idea.
Committing to a day2 bus of Hapa? Why is that a bad thing as scum? One of you walks away with massive town-cred, and there's no guarantee that either of you would prevail. In addition, Hapa hard defended your meta-shift claim. Bussing a teammate is a legitimate strategy.
You 'gave away' the second scumbuddy during the night, after he failed to produce anything useful. You didn't give away shit. If you are trying to imply that Hapa was #1 and BH was #2, then fuck you harder. If you are saying you gave up Cross, which kind of makes sense, I counter with Cross gave himself up. You just acknowledged it and bought into the cred earned by flipping him as a goon.
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No one cares about BH's claim right now. So we can shut up about it and focus on lynching ZB or someone else.
ZB, Clarity, DJo, S&B
Those are our candidates.
Personally I want to lynch ZB for being scum. I could vote for clarity also.
I do not want to vote for S&B or Djo today.
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On November 18 2012 06:43 DarthPunk wrote:
No one cares about BH's claim right now. So we can shut up about it and focus on lynching ZB or someone else.
ZB, Clarity, DJo, S&B
Those are our candidates.
Personally I want to lynch ZB for being scum. I could vote for clarity also.
I do not want to vote for S&B or Djo today.
why clarity i had a stronger town read during this cycle
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On November 18 2012 06:44 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 06:43 DarthPunk wrote:
No one cares about BH's claim right now. So we can shut up about it and focus on lynching ZB or someone else.
ZB, Clarity, DJo, S&B
Those are our candidates.
Personally I want to lynch ZB for being scum. I could vote for clarity also.
I do not want to vote for S&B or Djo today. why clarity i had a stronger town read during this cycle
I do not share the town read on him that everyone else seems to have. See my previous case. and his play has only deteriorated since then.
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EPT
