Mario Mini Mafia - Page 104

On November 13 2012 10:53 Hopeless1der wrote:

wat?
so...you didn't claim VT?

On November 14 2012 02:31 Hapahauli wrote:
Catching up on my lunch break.

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Regarding SnB

##Unvote

After sleeping on it, I'm starting to agree that his play is too far of a deviation from his normal scum play to be scummy. I don't know what he's thinking, but it's much more reckless of a playstyle than I'd expect of scum SnB.

(FWIW, the fact that he's continuing this behavior into today makes me think he's an SK or something. It falls into that "townie but really off" type of play that's common with 3rd party roles.)

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I still believe both situations to be the same - they are both strangely timed VT claims. Cheese's intent to "signal" other townies isn't a significant difference, as both potentially fall into the category of "scum wanting to look less suspicious despite not being suspicious." The situations are not identical by any means, but they're more similar than not.

Regardless, I'm not suspicious of SnB anymore so I don't want to dwell on this.

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Regarding the Z-Boson Case

I really disagree with it. The case is a giant anecdote for how Z-Boson's actions could be scummy rather than why they're scummy.



All of this isn't valid at all hours into D1. All of the stuff described above is completely non-alignment indicative in the early game.

Z-Boson has been less active than I'm used to seeing him, but again early D1 caveats. No reason to vote him.

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Regarding iamperfection

His sudden flip-flop on Z-Boson is really strange. He goes from strongly trusting Z-Bo's claim early in the game to a vote for really shitty reasons.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440&currentpage=22#434
In his vote post, he first picks a fight with BH - odd considering that he's ultimately going to agree with his read. He puts a lot of stock into one of Z-Bo's early D1 postings and early-game banter (meaningless). He then talks about the "iamperfection rule" and another early D1 wishy-washy post.

I wouldn't mind this if it weren't for his discussion about the miller claim:


WHAT?!?!? Iamperfection had almost no doubt about Z-Bo's motives, and he's willing to do a complete 180 with the above reasoning. Just take a look at his previous stance, made right after Z-Bo's claim:


He immediately trusted Z-Boson without question the second Z-Bo made that claim. Then all of a sudden now he turns around and can doubt the claim he so strongly believed in earlier. It makes no sense to me, and it looks like scum jumping on someone the second they have the reason to. This would be fine if he had a good case, but he just hinges on a couple of early D1 posts and the "iamperfection" rule as opposed to anything substantial.

It doesn't help that the rest of his filter reads really artificially confrontational to me. It feels like he's trying to overcompensate for being caught in GSL III for not showing his "bravado" throughout the game.

##Vote iamperfection

On November 14 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:
It seems to me people are thinking too much of my posts, expecting some sort of brilliant day one cases. Disagreeing with my logic does not make me scum.
That should pretty much handle the vast chunk of shit I got the last few pages.

There are, however, some things I'd like to point out during these last events, though:

First thing to note is how uncharacteristically bad BH's case is against me. He's basically saying I'm bullshitting with every post I make. While I agree my posts are not the bestest they can be, I'm not sure why that implies I'm scum.

He says this one thing in particular though:



Note two things.
1) He's saying I'm setting up to look good as a wagon starter.

This is balls-to-the wall dumb. How am I a wagon starter just for having the first vote? Also, as he himself noted, I did not write a full essay regarding why I think SnB is scum. I voted for him for implying that he is town, and that's basically it. If I wanted to become a "wagon starter", that's obviously the exact opposite of what I should do, I would make a much more elaborate case.
Ironically, I could say the same about BH and his case on me, and with much more validity, as he actually goes deep in his case on me, and seems somehow certain of my alignment, something which he leaves very clear later on:

Now, I'm not scum, so in my pov he is pretty much full of shit with this remark. There's a difference between bad logic, the thing he is calling me on bullshitting, and actual bullshitting, which is what this "wagon starting" remark actually is.

2) He's saying my filter is short, and it's clear I'm not helping.
Again, completely ironic and hypocritical.

He has only three completely useless posts up until this one:



The second paragraph is completely fluffy, he's not actually saying anything.

That being said, I would like everyone to pay attention to the bolded on the third paragraph. He heavily, heavily thrashes me for being weak on my vote on SnB. Let's ignore all the others, especially DP (who voted TWICE on SnB, without saying anything). Let's focus on what he says here on iamp - and this is important. He says that iamp is throwing his vote around to pressure people, and that's all A-ok.

Now pause and think here. I'll quote what he said about that on me for clarity:



and



Now contrast that to what he said about iamp's voting. On iamp, he is completely casual regarding his voting. On his case on me, however, he's aggressive and incisive , as you can clearly tell from the quotes I posted above.

Why does this make him scummy? Because it shows clear signs of fabrication, as one can easily infer from the quotes above. His views on "casual voting" are in complete contrast.
One more thing, that I ignored earlier. If he feels so strongly about me voting SnB without giving any reasoning or thoughts, why isn't he going after DP, who's actually done that not once, but TWICE??
Townie Motivation: none.
Scum motivation: he feels threatened that I have claimed miller and people are not showing signs of doubt on my claim.

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tl;dr
1) Blazinghand's case on me is uncharacteristically bad.

It's also not consistent with his townie play on Liquid City. Look at his progression on Shiaopi, who was incidentally also making uncharacteristically bad cases as well.
2) Blazinghand is being supremely inconsistent, contradictory and hypocritical of what he defines as scum-motivated and what not, showing signs of someone who is merely fabricating cases, as detailed above.

I tried to be as clear as possible here, because I don't want people to feel like this is just OMGUS.

My votes on SnB and debears were more pressure votes, as if that wasn't pretty much clear.
This one on blazinghand, is not. I think he's the best lynch so far, as everything I've stated seem to point on him being scum.

##Unvote
##Vote Blazinghand

On November 14 2012 11:21 thrawn2112 wrote:
I wanna lynch darthpunk. I remember his town play as somewhat aggressive and stubborn, and what I'm seeing from him in this game is completely different from that impression. I still think the whole snb 4 votes early on thing was a little silly and probably had scum behind it.

You unvoted snb, who you originally voted for because of a dumb reason, in order to vote for clarity who had voted for snb because of a dumb reason?

Specifically, this is what i'm talking about with dp's tone. This...


...is not what I expect from dp. I expect him to be argumentative and to challenge anyone who accuses him of being wrong.

I don't like his votes/unvotes for snb or the explanations for the votes.

His last voting action was an unvote, and the next 8 posts contain mainly fluff and jokes, not much information that's pertinent to the thread.

Summary: He took the easy vote on snb and was wishy washy about it (voting then unvoting then voting then unvoting) because he knows the vote looks bad. After voting the first time, he unvoted then challenged clarity for doing the exact same thing that dp himself did (hasty bandwagon voting for snb) and then he unvoted for a final time and his filter after that point contains no scumhunting or any of his reads/thoughts.

##Vote: Darthpunk

The other people that voted for snb during that time were hapa, clarity, and boson. With boson... the miller claim didn't seem to come at the right time to be a scum fakeclaim. I'd expect fake claims to come along much later after everyone has been given a chance to post/claim. Hapa, I'm wary of. BH made a comment along the lines of "whoever voted for snb is bad or scum," and hapa is definitely not bad. But he as well as clarity continued giving reads and interacting with the thread after the snb stuff, while dp has been wishywashy with his vote and not talked about much of anything else. The snb bandwagon grew so quickly that I think it's very likely that there were scum behind it, and dp looks scummiest out of all of them. There was his original voting/unvoting, not following through with any reads afterwards and having a fluffy filter, and being extremely peaceful and not willing to get in fights. That's the exact opposite of town dp.

On November 16 2012 18:09 Djodref wrote:
I don't think it is as unlikely as it seems. I have good arguments to support this but I'm phone posting from my car so I'm not in the best position to explain them in details but here are a few hints.
First things first, BH play is not town-like. Could we at least agree on this one ?
Secondly, when you look at C9++, from which the setup of our game is derived from, the roles of the mafia team are given after that the roles for the town are decided. So the mafia team have more info than us about the roles. My point is that for a goon, goon, GF scumteam, it is not so risky for a troll goon to claim JK, as it is less likely to have a real JK.
Thirdly, voting against Hapa could have been a soft bus vote rather than a real bus vote because a Hapa lynch was unlikely to happen. Nobody could have foresaw it, especially with the Kickstart switch coming from nowhere.