EPT[!] Pro Terran Strategy Q/A - Page 16
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bmoneyAK
81 Posts
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Keilkan
Denmark67 Posts
Once the Bio starts going with upgrades, spreads and multitasking I feel like I am on a timer as Zerg to get out Broodlords. I have yet to trade efficiently enough to actually overpower that kind of army composition with just Ling/Bling/Infestor. Is there a way, besides getting off baneling bombs, to stop a competent Terran from snowballing with his bio/tank composition? | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [game spoilers] + What could Ryung have done better in game 3 vs Curious other than having a PF wall at his 4th/5th base to defend the ultra counter attack better? | ||
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KawaiiRice
United States2914 Posts
On November 12 2012 18:05 Keilkan wrote: As a Midmasters Zerg I completely crush mech flat in its track, yet I die a horrible and one-sided death vs proper bio play. It seems like a Terran on three bases with Bio can make an insane amount of MMM with a sprinkle of tank support. Once the Bio starts going with upgrades, spreads and multitasking I feel like I am on a timer as Zerg to get out Broodlords. I have yet to trade efficiently enough to actually overpower that kind of army composition with just Ling/Bling/Infestor. Is there a way, besides getting off baneling bombs, to stop a competent Terran from snowballing with his bio/tank composition? when terrans play fast 3rd marine tank they do some pressure opening into a 2-2 timing push. This can get crushed by max out ling bling if you have good creep spread and flank from multiple sides. If you push in from just one side and don't have banelings spread out more than likely they target fire and you lose, which is probably what you do. muta or infestor are fine; mutas target tanks and infestors get imba fungals (you shouldn't really need it though). | ||
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brofestor
Singapore101 Posts
On November 12 2012 20:15 Teoita wrote: A question for Ver/thedwf, from the the ro16 of gsl, group A: + Show Spoiler [game spoilers] + What could Ryung have done better in game 3 vs Curious other than having a PF wall at his 4th/5th base to defend the ultra counter attack better? yea i watched that game the tech switches are ludicrious (from bl/festor -> 18+ ultras -> bls again) all the while supplementing the army with winfestor backbone. even if terran knows this is still extremely hard to get the balance in your compo correctly, which ryung didnt and fell apart. actually ryung lose cos he lost his 4th to the ultras. he didnt have much of an army after the broodlord engagement and thus have to sack the 4th curious did well to deflect hellion harass in his extra bases with...blings and spines of all things anyway how do you fend off mass roach drops when going mech in 3 bases? it seems zerg can do some serious damage if they are committed and zerg does some multi prong drops (eg. most on main some on 3rd.) | ||
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ThaSlayer
707 Posts
I'm a meching terran at masters level and I have a question regarding the follow up after 1 rax fe. There seems to be two variations now: 1) Cloaked banshee + hellion 2) 2 Fact BFH (around 10-11) + Viking Question: 1) Which should I choose based on my scouting infomation? I tend to go for 2 fact BFH if I scout no gas, since the zerg should presumably take his third, whilst relying on mass lings for defence 2) How should I react if Zerg is safety walled off behind spines and evo chambers? I feel lost whenever I run into this whgen going for the second option - It feels as if my BFH upgrade does not pay off, as I am unable to kill drones/lings 3) Any tips for an effective harassment? Specifically, should I target down if zerg has taken a 3rd hatch? Thanks! | ||
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Guileful
Kazakhstan137 Posts
On November 12 2012 23:32 ThaSlayer wrote: + Show Spoiler + Hi guys, I'm a meching terran at masters level and I have a question regarding the follow up after 1 rax fe. There seems to be two variations now: 1) Cloaked banshee + hellion 2) 2 Fact BFH (around 10-11) + Viking Question: 1) Which should I choose based on my scouting infomation? I tend to go for 2 fact BFH if I scout no gas, since the zerg should presumably take his third, whilst relying on mass lings for defence 2) How should I react if Zerg is safety walled off behind spines and evo chambers? I feel lost whenever I run into this whgen going for the second option - It feels as if my BFH upgrade does not pay off, as I am unable to kill drones/lings 3) Any tips for an effective harassment? Specifically, should I target down if zerg has taken a 3rd hatch? Thanks! Delay his third, and creep spread while taking 3rd; be ready for muta to come. User was warned for this post | ||
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minimalistic
Hungary157 Posts
On November 08 2012 21:31 minimalistic wrote: Hi there, I am starting to encounter this build more frequently as it is getting popular: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=364130 Do you guys have any experience playing against this? Yup for good reason, it's really strong and safe. The best way to get advantages for it is with triple cc, as that's the coinflip (this is how Mvp beat Rain on Antiga) and play as greedy as possible. It's a build that is designed to neutralize pressure and make sure the Protoss can enter the lategame. So make sure you plant your 3rd cc at your 3rd, rush that armory and 2nd ebay, and grab a fast 4th. You should be able to pressure a lot later as you'll max first and it will be awkward for him to take a 4th. edit: Monk informed me that Rain's build is slightly different as he rushes charge, but if you are going triple cc it should end up roughly the same either way. Also look at Parting vs Mvp (gsl semis) on Metro, where Parting fails to hold a simple 4 medivac drop. Even this build is a little bit fragile if you can knock out observers as he relies 100% on intercepting drops; once they land in that brief window before charge finishes you can really hurt if not win outright. Do you have any solid terran replay example for the above? I am really struggling against this kind of play, and would be nice to see somebody pulling off some magic against it. Thank you. | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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Ver
United States2186 Posts
On November 11 2012 21:56 4tre55 wrote: I know this has been discussed before, but in what order dou you engage a lategame protoss army composition the best way? I usually try to (in that order): blanket emp's with (hopefully leading) ghostst shift-click vikings trough all collossus spread army stim kite A bit off. 1) Pre spread 2) Snipe/emp 3) Stim (this should happen above 2 if no templar are in the front) + engage vikings slightly beforehand. 4) emp 5) kite 6) vikings Stim, big envelopment, and making sure he can't land a storm are your biggest priorities. If you have lots of ghosts you can only partially kite certain groups back, while ghostless armies should kite nonstop unless he's mostly stalker. Taeja often uses his ghosts to absorb the charge and then pulls them back. On November 12 2012 18:05 Keilkan wrote: As a Midmasters Zerg I completely crush mech flat in its track, yet I die a horrible and one-sided death vs proper bio play. It seems like a Terran on three bases with Bio can make an insane amount of MMM with a sprinkle of tank support. Once the Bio starts going with upgrades, spreads and multitasking I feel like I am on a timer as Zerg to get out Broodlords. I have yet to trade efficiently enough to actually overpower that kind of army composition with just Ling/Bling/Infestor. Is there a way, besides getting off baneling bombs, to stop a competent Terran from snowballing with his bio/tank composition? It's cause mech is very easy to play against while bio is hard on both sides. When I play people equal to me in TvT with my Zerg I can routinely beat them going mech but only can hurt their bio on really imba maps like cloud. I am almost certain your creep spread is at fault here, because muta/ling/bling WILL beat anything but a 10+ tank/thor maxed army on creep. Infestor armies are a bit worse versus perfect micro. I'd go through a checklist: 1) What's your creep level? Is it at the middle at 930-1030 (depending on focus of hellion/banshee), and at their natural/ramp by 1230-13? That's ideal creep spread, so use that as your goal. 2) As Kawaii said, are you dispersing your banes and getting flanks in? A lot of zergs don't bother to set up attacks at all, i,e spreading their army in a giant arc so it crashes down in a large envelopment rather than a big line with clumped banes. If you want an example of a simple yet strong flank, look at Miya vs Taeja on Atlantis Spaceship from Slayers/Liquid in IPLTAC3. Also make sure you micro banes so they don't all detonate on spread tanks/thors. If you are using mutas you should queue them up to kill all his tanks (monster vs taeja, ipltl, entombed). 3) If you have infestors, are you burrowing one underneath his army to follow it around and then lead any attack with infested terrans? 4) Are you charging at him with feints to force stims and sieges, then retreating at little cost? 5) Backstabs. Every time he moves out, run some lings or ling/bane in. On some maps it's only so-so but still good (entombed) while on others it's completely imbalanced and virtually forces mech (cloud). Zerg doesn't have to micro much so if you force a two-front battle simultaneously, he's going to be screwed because he can't spread and focus at both spots. I've lost games where a backstab hits right as I'm pushing into his 4th and I have to look away to deal with it for a couple seconds, during which time my entire army clumps and I lose the game to a fungal. On November 12 2012 16:18 bmoneyAK wrote: what are the pros and cons to thorzain bio build versus 1 rax expo/double gas/fact/port in tvt? Can you compare and contrast the former and latter? With Thorzain's build, I try and safely take a third, get my upgrades and another factory and more rax. Thanks. Going to assume bio here, because if you're going mech fact port is a no brainer. rax cc fact port is safer overall and has a larger margin of error. rax cc bio has very very little margin of error vs allins. If both players are going 14cc/rax cc, then the 3 rax tech player has a superior initiative in the midgame, can take their third cc at their third and thus be mining from it faster, and ready a backstab force for any kind of push out. The fact port player will have a larger tank count (think 7 or so tanks to 4-5), and if they went banshee they have opportunity for some harass (but mostly only if the other player doesn't scan, as it's easy to block and you'll have stim soon). Against greedy 1 base expo builds (some idiots will try to triple cc off of gas first banshee or something), rax cc double gas lets you punish them by doing a 3 tank/marine/viking timing, while bio would have to wait until medivacs are out by which time they'd probably have siege mode. On November 12 2012 23:32 ThaSlayer wrote: Hi guys, I'm a meching terran at masters level and I have a question regarding the follow up after 1 rax fe. There seems to be two variations now: 1) Cloaked banshee + hellion 2) 2 Fact BFH (around 10-11) + Viking Question: 1) Which should I choose based on my scouting infomation? I tend to go for 2 fact BFH if I scout no gas, since the zerg should presumably take his third, whilst relying on mass lings for defence 2) How should I react if Zerg is safety walled off behind spines and evo chambers? I feel lost whenever I run into this whgen going for the second option - It feels as if my BFH upgrade does not pay off, as I am unable to kill drones/lings 3) Any tips for an effective harassment? Specifically, should I target down if zerg has taken a 3rd hatch? Thanks! 2 fact blue flame is only a legit build on cloud kingdom because on any other map the Zerg will scout it, make roaches and wall, and you auto lose (and you want to get a medivac, not a viking first, viking comes second. I know mvp does it the other way but his reasons are weird and dependent on him knowing exactly how his opponent will react). 1) Scouting info means little. Just go hellion/banshee 3rd cc. 2) Well that's the problem with the build; if he reacts correctly you are so behind you basically you lose. 3) If the Zerg does normal 6 queen/3 base you can do a 4 hellion runby immediately if his queens are not sitting in the natural protecting it. If it's in the midgame you want to wait for him to move out with his forces, then run into the third and drop in the main simultaneously. If you time it right you can rally reinforcements into his natural for 3 pronged. This is pretty risky though and relies on good game sense. It's easier to just use hellions as a backstab if he ever attacks you. On November 12 2012 23:17 brofestor wrote: yea i watched that game the tech switches are ludicrious (from bl/festor -> 18+ ultras -> bls again) all the while supplementing the army with winfestor backbone. even if terran knows this is still extremely hard to get the balance in your compo correctly, which ryung didnt and fell apart. actually ryung lose cos he lost his 4th to the ultras. he didnt have much of an army after the broodlord engagement and thus have to sack the 4th curious did well to deflect hellion harass in his extra bases with...blings and spines of all things anyway how do you fend off mass roach drops when going mech in 3 bases? it seems zerg can do some serious damage if they are committed and zerg does some multi prong drops (eg. most on main some on 3rd.) Win the game before that point. I don't mean cripple him either, I mean win. I've lost enough mech games against suppy where I killed all but his main/nat and am on 5 bases but still lose because that buys enough time for 1 brood army. Terran chances in an "even" lategame are 100% reliant on the Zerg making gross unforced errors (i,e soo vs major from MvP on daybreak, where soo clumps his army twice and dies to seeker missile that he doesn't fungal in time_. This game basically showed the problem with mech: if you do not play it absolutely flawlessly (and thus kill him with your first major attack, or kill most of his bases which makes it even) you are screwed because you have no comeback potential. I lost a similar game to tgun at mlg on metropolis where I had basically the dream army of 14 ravens + 6~ BCs, 8~ tanks, and support thor/hellion/viking after saccing 40 scvs or so. And I lost the big battle, fighting at my own planetary, after killing multiple ultra and roach armies before that, on even bases, which instantly lost the game. All because he properly spread his army. In this case Ryung's build was slightly suboptimal and he lost too many hellions roaming around so his 1430-15 min timing that is supposed to kill came maybe 45s later which means Curious has an easy time making broodlords. Ordinarily you want to force them to max on roach/ling/infestor at 14 mins, retreat to build up to 180-190 with more tanks, then push out again and kill their army and win the game. Curious actually made a lot of bad errors and gave Ryung a possibility to win. If Ryung had taken all the bottom left bases and made 8~ orbitals during his siege up left and started investing into BC's, he would've had an easier time holding and rebuilding. You never want to make planetary walls and I find defensive planetaries to be terrible tbh except on Metro but raxes and orbitals around a planetary can help out a lot vs ultras. Taeja vs Idra on Atlantis spaceship is a good example of this where Idra makes some errors engaging without a proper force and Taeja's repoduction is good enough that he can buyback his army faster with a dozen mules. On November 13 2012 04:10 minimalistic wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 08 2012 21:31 minimalistic wrote: Hi there, I am starting to encounter this build more frequently as it is getting popular: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=364130 Do you guys have any experience playing against this? Yup for good reason, it's really strong and safe. The best way to get advantages for it is with triple cc, as that's the coinflip (this is how Mvp beat Rain on Antiga) and play as greedy as possible. It's a build that is designed to neutralize pressure and make sure the Protoss can enter the lategame. So make sure you plant your 3rd cc at your 3rd, rush that armory and 2nd ebay, and grab a fast 4th. You should be able to pressure a lot later as you'll max first and it will be awkward for him to take a 4th. edit: Monk informed me that Rain's build is slightly different as he rushes charge, but if you are going triple cc it should end up roughly the same either way. Also look at Parting vs Mvp (gsl semis) on Metro, where Parting fails to hold a simple 4 medivac drop. Even this build is a little bit fragile if you can knock out observers as he relies 100% on intercepting drops; once they land in that brief window before charge finishes you can really hurt if not win outright. Do you have any solid terran replay example for the above? I am really struggling against this kind of play, and would be nice to see somebody pulling off some magic against it. Thank you. Yes Mvp vs Rain, Antiga, from their gsl semis. Replays? not off the top of my head, only a subset of protosses do this build and most have not been in tourneys with reps. On November 13 2012 04:20 kollin wrote: Hi Ver, in your opinion what are the best 3 cheeses for TvP at the moment. I know a month ago or so you said it was hellion marauder, and that is immensely strong, but do you have any thoughts on other all ins? yeah gas first hellion/marauder proxy fact port hellion drop proxy marauder proxy 11/11 I think the 1 base cloak into thor/banshee 2 base attack is a bit underused as a surprise build. | ||
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
Gasless 4 queen ** 6 Queen With 1 gas, Life style, with fast speed. I ask because, i feel like terrans who scout gasless openings, are learning that zergs can not really attack, and are cutting corners? Where fast gas openers have less creep spread potential, but can cheese? | ||
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Ver
United States2186 Posts
On November 13 2012 08:37 BuiBui wrote: Ver, When you play with your zerg vs terran, What do you think is the best opening with the current meta game in mind. Or even, where you think the meta game will go. Gasless 4 queen ** 6 Queen With 1 gas, Life style, with fast speed. I ask because, i feel like terrans who scout gasless openings, are learning that zergs can not really attack, and are cutting corners? Where fast gas openers have less creep spread potential, but can cheese? I don't think it's a question of metagame. TvZ on both sides has clearly defined superior builds at the moment, though Zerg can introduce luck if they want to with 2 base lair allins. I think no gas fast third 6 queen is unquestionably the best. If in the GSL finals life did fast third/6 queen and ovie scouted every game Mvp wouldn't have won a single game, except maybe Abyssal (only because he didn't make broods). Mvp's 2 fact blue flame allin relied on Life not scouting and doing that speedling build. If Life makes 3rd/6 queens and ovie scouts, he sees the build and makes enough roaches to hold while getting full saturation and a huge midgame lead. That's why nobody does that 2 fact build very much anymore and also why Mvp used it almost every game. Life's opening get him easy wins, but they also make him vulnerable to things he shouldn't be. It's theoretically inferior and will lose more games to 'perfect' players (like the GSL finals, which shouldn't have been close except Mvp won almost every coinflip) but looks pretty good. Life's midgame is where he truly shines, and obviously he has Zerg lategame. Compared to other Zergs (Soo, Scarlett, Suppy, DRG at his best) his creep is not particularly good most of the time due to his opening and emphasis on harass; for example, this severely cost him on Cloud Kingdom against Flash from MLG. Remember as Zerg your entire goal is to reach Hive tech and live. How you do that is up for debate but unless you want to actually outplay your opponent you want to get off of lair tech as quickly as possible. I will say though that the muta/ling/bling midgame and relying on counters and ling runbys is FAR more enjoyable to play than infestor hive turtle. The fast ling speed will let you punish greedy Terrans who build their 3rd cc at their 3rd and are really aggressive/suicidal with hellions; a lot of Terrans fall under that umbrella, and it's a lot easier and more forgiving for you than the 6 queen build. But in the end, you have less creep, and creep matters a lot even early game. Furthermore, not seeing gas is not the major determining factor for the Terran: it's scouting the third before 630. The only things that early gas does which double gas upon lings popping does not are pre 6 minute roach or ling/bane allins that can cut queens, the 630 speedling third build, and the fastest possible mutas. If I scout my opponent getting gas as Terran I'm overjoyed because while it does introduce some luck into the game, it also means they will have a trickier time reaching hive unscathed. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On November 12 2012 18:05 Keilkan wrote: As a Midmasters Zerg I completely crush mech flat in its track, yet I die a horrible and one-sided death vs proper bio play. It seems like a Terran on three bases with Bio can make an insane amount of MMM with a sprinkle of tank support. Once the Bio starts going with upgrades, spreads and multitasking I feel like I am on a timer as Zerg to get out Broodlords. I have yet to trade efficiently enough to actually overpower that kind of army composition with just Ling/Bling/Infestor. Is there a way, besides getting off baneling bombs, to stop a competent Terran from snowballing with his bio/tank composition? Unless Terran reaches a high Tank count those fights are Zerg-favored on creep, so as pointed above check your macro, creep spread and engagements. One problem you might have is that the game snowballs out of control because you use Banelings along with Infestors, so if you don't win the first main engagement your Infestors are out of energy and you have to retreat while morphing additional Banelings, and Terran uses this window to move forward / kill your expands. You may try Zerglings/Roaches/Infestors, also works fine to clear Marines/Tanks pushes on creep. On November 12 2012 20:15 Teoita wrote: A question for Ver/thedwf, from the the ro16 of gsl, group A: + Show Spoiler [game spoilers] + What could Ryung have done better in game 3 vs Curious other than having a PF wall at his 4th/5th base to defend the ultra counter attack better? I didn't watch the games so I can only give a general answer, but anyway you can't do much against Ultralisks counters as PFs are horrible against them and leaving some Tanks behind is obviously not a solution. The best you can do is probably shield your PFs with Barracks and/or macro OCs, but if he wants to destroy the PF he'll be able to destroy it regardless. PFs walls are not an option as they're costly and inefficient against Ultralisks. Lack of a flexible supply-free static defence is one of the banes of Terran's lategame. On November 12 2012 23:32 ThaSlayer wrote: Hi guys, I'm a meching terran at masters level and I have a question regarding the follow up after 1 rax fe. There seems to be two variations now: 1) Cloaked banshee + hellion 2) 2 Fact BFH (around 10-11) + Viking Question: 1) Which should I choose based on my scouting infomation? I tend to go for 2 fact BFH if I scout no gas, since the zerg should presumably take his third, whilst relying on mass lings for defence 2) How should I react if Zerg is safety walled off behind spines and evo chambers? I feel lost whenever I run into this whgen going for the second option - It feels as if my BFH upgrade does not pay off, as I am unable to kill drones/lings 3) Any tips for an effective harassment? Specifically, should I target down if zerg has taken a 3rd hatch? Thanks! For questions 1) and 2) see my previous answer to saaaa page 15. For 3) it depends on your follow-up, with mech you produce more Hellions/Banshees so you can try riskier things, with Marines/Tanks you want to be more conservative as for a while you solely rely on those units for your defence. When I play mech I try to run in my first 4 or 6 Hellions if his Queens are out of position, if no I wait my first Cloak Banshee to chase his Queens, etc. It's a bit hard to give specific advice because it depends on the map, the build order your opponent uses, his reactions, his units, your micro... | ||
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smaug81243
94 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On November 13 2012 12:06 smaug81243 wrote: Can you discuss your thoughts on why flash was delaying ghosts (TVP) for so long? It seemed like he was completely against using them I suppose you refer to the Flash vs Naniwa game on Daybreak? Against Templar tech, you may delay Ghosts for a while in favor of a stronger midgame initiative/pressure with your gas used on Medivacs instead. Polt uses this style as well, I think Polt vs Rain on Antiga @ GSL season 4 Ro16 features this kind of play if I remember correctly. As proven in the Flash vs Naniwa game, though, you absolutely need Ghosts at some point because if you don't break the Protoss during your agressive phase he will eventually manage to stabilize with enough Storms to wipe out your entire army (or prevent it from defending your expands using Storms as a zone control, as it happened near Flash's fourth) regardless of your ability to dodge and split. Delaying Ghosts that much was a bit of a rookie mistake from Flash. | ||
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
On November 13 2012 09:13 Ver wrote: I don't think it's a question of metagame. TvZ on both sides has clearly defined superior builds at the moment, though Zerg can introduce luck if they want to with 2 base lair allins. I think no gas fast third 6 queen is unquestionably the best. If in the GSL finals life did fast third/6 queen and ovie scouted every game Mvp wouldn't have won a single game, except maybe Abyssal (only because he didn't make broods). Mvp's 2 fact blue flame allin relied on Life not scouting and doing that speedling build. If Life makes 3rd/6 queens and ovie scouts, he sees the build and makes enough roaches to hold while getting full saturation and a huge midgame lead. That's why nobody does that 2 fact build very much anymore and also why Mvp used it almost every game. Life's opening get him easy wins, but they also make him vulnerable to things he shouldn't be. It's theoretically inferior and will lose more games to 'perfect' players (like the GSL finals, which shouldn't have been close except Mvp won almost every coinflip) but looks pretty good. Life's midgame is where he truly shines, and obviously he has Zerg lategame. Compared to other Zergs (Soo, Scarlett, Suppy, DRG at his best) his creep is not particularly good most of the time due to his opening and emphasis on harass; for example, this severely cost him on Cloud Kingdom against Flash from MLG. Remember as Zerg your entire goal is to reach Hive tech and live. How you do that is up for debate but unless you want to actually outplay your opponent you want to get off of lair tech as quickly as possible. I will say though that the muta/ling/bling midgame and relying on counters and ling runbys is FAR more enjoyable to play than infestor hive turtle. The fast ling speed will let you punish greedy Terrans who build their 3rd cc at their 3rd and are really aggressive/suicidal with hellions; a lot of Terrans fall under that umbrella, and it's a lot easier and more forgiving for you than the 6 queen build. But in the end, you have less creep, and creep matters a lot even early game. Furthermore, not seeing gas is not the major determining factor for the Terran: it's scouting the third before 630. The only things that early gas does which double gas upon lings popping does not are pre 6 minute roach or ling/bane allins that can cut queens, the 630 speedling third build, and the fastest possible mutas. If I scout my opponent getting gas as Terran I'm overjoyed because while it does introduce some luck into the game, it also means they will have a trickier time reaching hive unscathed. thank you for the very well thought out response. This is exactly what I wanted to read! Thanks ^_^ | ||
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Keilkan
Denmark67 Posts
2) As Kawaii said, are you dispersing your banes and getting flanks in? A lot of zergs don't bother to set up attacks at all, i,e spreading their army in a giant arc so it crashes down in a large envelopment rather than a big line with clumped banes. If you want an example of a simple yet strong flank, look at Miya vs Taeja on Atlantis Spaceship from Slayers/Liquid in IPLTAC3. Also make sure you micro banes so they don't all detonate on spread tanks/thors. If you are using mutas you should queue them up to kill all his tanks (monster vs taeja, ipltl, entombed). I could probably do a lot better of flanking. The game in question however, my opponent opened two-rax and got murdered. Then I got a third immediately. Yet he decided to push out completely blind with a relatively low amount of marines, and got to deny my third and the creepspread I had going, so the beginning of the midgame was a lot more even than it should have been - I also didn't have much creep going, due to the early aggression. As the game was on Ohana, I also feel like the room I have to backstab or flank is extremely limited. Basically his push was sitting around the lower ramp towards my fourth, with a single marine holding the watchtower. Once he got onto that ramp I knew engaging would be almost impossible with just ling/bling/infestor. Yet I am not sure where I could have really engaged the army much before he got there. He more or less slowpushed to the watchtower, then just went to the ramp at my fourth and slowpushed again. + Show Spoiler + 3) If you have infestors, are you burrowing one underneath his army to follow it around and then lead any attack with infested terrans? | ||
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plogamer
Canada3132 Posts
Zerg units that do low damage per attack tend to have very low HP. Roaches and broods seem to do bigger damage per hit.To forgo armor upgrade would spare gas for more tech units, ala banshee, raven, etc. Is there something I am missing? | ||
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Thezzy
Netherlands2117 Posts
On November 13 2012 18:47 plogamer wrote: What do you think of an attack-upgrade only strategy against Zerg? (playing as Terran) Zerg units that do low damage per attack tend to have very low HP. Roaches and broods seem to do bigger damage per hit.To forgo armor upgrade would spare gas for more tech units, ala banshee, raven, etc. Is there something I am missing? Keep in mind that Zerglings attack quickly, each armor upgrade will reduce each of those attacks by one. The lower the damage of the attack, the better it is to get armor because you'll reduce the attack damage even further. Against a tank shot of 35 damage, having 3 armor does very little (less than 10% reduction). However, against an attack of 6 damage, having 3 armor cuts the damage output in half. This is why 6 armor ultras require Marauders because it reduces +3 marine damage from 9 to 3 and why +3 armor Battlecruisers take very little damage from Interceptors. As for my own question, I'm still looking for a stable yet relatively simple TvZ build. As I'm currently in Platinum, I don't feel like I have the APM/Micro to make Hellion/Banshee work as well as it should. I did see a build where you go for a Marine/Hellion with one Medivac attack followed by going Marine/Tank. It seems simple enough, capable of doing early damage and setting up for a strong midgame, but I've been reading here that Marine/Tank has become very difficult due to creep spread and mass speed/bane/muta. Can you think of a build that would be somewhat more forgiving of mistakes/easier to learn with? | ||
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iamhope
Afghanistan51 Posts
On November 13 2012 12:06 smaug81243 wrote: Can you discuss your thoughts on why flash was delaying ghosts (TVP) for so long? It seemed like he was completely against using them No Idea... but koreans tend to rely more on micro... If he could avoid those storms he would've won the game instantly. Maybe that's what he was trying... to trade armies nonstop... But building ghosts asap is definitelly safer for us. | ||
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