EPTIt could be. I find his earlier actions scummier than his wording though.
Anyways,
##Unvote
##Vote Dau0d
Dude is most definitely the most inactive player right now
Newbie Mini Mafia XXX - Page 26
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debears
United States2516 Posts
It could be. I find his earlier actions scummier than his wording though. Anyways, ##Unvote ##Vote Dau0d Dude is most definitely the most inactive player right now | ||
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
Do you think that a townie doesn't have to be worried about what everyone else thinks of them? | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On November 04 2012 05:31 Rad wrote: You mean besides my persistent scum hunting against debears? What do you want me to do, scum hunt against everyone at the same time? I try to comment on other people's arguments as they come up but I can only handle so much at once. Your "scumhunting" has been a refusal to answer a simple question I asked you and then harp on me about wanting someone to be more specific in their accusation to 1) Figure out how much fluff you think I have 2) Figure out if you're possibly mafia trying to keep an escape door by being general You should really reconsider reading what exactly I was asking for. | ||
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
But you're saying it like just because one is worried about others not thinking you have pure intentions that if they make that fact known, it must be a slip. | ||
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Mr. Cheesecake
United States3756 Posts
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On November 04 2012 06:22 Alsn wrote: Of course scum worries about trying to show that they are acting with pure intentions. But you're saying it like just because one is worried about others not thinking you have pure intentions that if they are, it must be a slip. Do you think that a townie doesn't have to be worried about what everyone else thinks of them? Alsn, in my experience, townies are much less worried about how they are viewed among the town. They are more worried about scumhunting since town know they are innocent. Mafia, on the other hand, must try to "scumhunt" while appearing town, due to a guilty conscience. | ||
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
@debears He's the most inactive right now, I agree. But I don't think he'll be active again for at least a few hours. I want to see how he acts over the next day before I can get a good read on him. @CC, regarding Rad (and Clar) Rad is playing the way that I want to play. That I'm trying to play. If I thought he was scum, then I am fucking awful at this game, because it's a playstyle I want to emulate, and trying to emulate scum as town would be absolutely moronic. Looking at what he's posted so far, I can't really imagine voting for him unless something very big were to come up (like an impossible claim, lol). @Alsn I think Alsn is town. I've already pointed out a few times how I think Rad is town, and these two posts: On November 04 2012 06:02 Rad wrote: @Cheese Djo's english comes across as awkward like that. I can't see it as a scum tell. Next time you're interested in pointing out something like this, you should do it rather than letting someone else do it and then agreeing with them. On November 04 2012 06:02 Alsn wrote: Cheese, what's so important about that distinction? A townie has just as much of an interest in making sure people think they have town's best interest at heart as scum has in trying to emulate that. At most it feels like a null tell to me. The fact that he worded it awkwardly may be somewhat scummy(if you're supposing that he worded it awkwardly because he thinks about his actions differently than a townie would) but other than that the distinction seems like a pointless one to me. They say the same thing, they happened at the exact same time. Alsn has a similar mindset to Rad, and I don't think Rad is scum. Honestly, my gut feeling right now is that CC is scummy, but I don't really know why. It was just my gut reaction yesterday. I'm going to go read through his filter, but I'm sort of worried about confirmation bias lol. -_- Nobody else seems to really be worried about him, and I don't see why, so I may be on the wrong track. (Alsn, Clar, Debears, Rad [And me  ] town) (Djo is scummy seeming but it may just be his typing-style and mastery of language, Sylver is scummy as per my previous post, da0ud is afk) - as a summary of my current thoughts. I'll start looking at CC now ._. | ||
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 04 2012 06:27 debears wrote: Less so maybe, but reading for example the newbie guide will tell you that a townie's first priority is to establish your own innocence. If that doesn't mean town needs to worry about their image, I don't know what it means. If you don't make sure that you look genuine, it would mean any scum voting for you seemingly had good reasons for doing so. Hell, just look at my play during XXVIII, I made pretty much everyone in the game(including you) suspect me because I wasn't careful enough about being consistent which derailed the thread and allowed SDM to flawlessly vote me out of the game without arousing any suspicion whatsoever. I spent the better part of four days trying to "fix my reputation" but in the end ultimately failed to do so, causing my lynch with arguably almost no benefit for town at all.Alsn, in my experience, townies are much less worried about how they are viewed among the town. They are more worried about scumhunting since town know they are innocent. Mafia, on the other hand, must try to "scumhunt" while appearing town, due to a guilty conscience. I'm merely saying that you can't accuse someone just because "scum would think that way!" if it's actually also true that town should think that way too. You can just as well make the case that it was a town slip(like, say, the one he made in XXIX that made everyone in the thread wrongly suspect him for 4 days straight?). I think if we keep paying attention to "weak slips" just because we managed to nail kush on it that one time, we haven't learned anything at all from XXIX. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On November 04 2012 06:41 Alsn wrote: Less so maybe, but reading for example the newbie guide will tell you that a townie's first priority is to establish your own innocence. If that doesn't mean town needs to worry about their image, I don't know what it means. If you don't make sure that you look genuine, it would mean any scum voting for you seemingly had good reasons for doing so. Hell, just look at my play during XXVIII, I made pretty much everyone in the game(including you) suspect me because I wasn't careful enough about being consistent which derailed the thread and allowed SDM to flawlessly vote me out of the game without arousing any suspicion whatsoever. I spent the better part of four days trying to "fix my reputation" but in the end ultimately failed to do so, causing my lynch with arguably almost no benefit for town at all. I'm merely saying that you can't accuse someone just because "scum would think that way!" if it's actually also true that town should think that way too. You can just as well make the case that it was a town slip(like, say, the one he made in XXIX that made everyone in the thread wrongly suspect him for 4 days straight?). I think if we keep paying attention to "weak slips" just because we managed to nail kush on it that one time, we haven't learned anything at all from XXIX. It makes sense. The one thing that you should consider is that as town, I don't feel "pressure" to make cases or appear I'm making cases. I just want to find scum. Djo's words implies that he feels pressure that he must appear townie, and I don't think that townies actually feel pressure to prove they're innocent, unless it's lylo. A townie may want to appear innocent, but if they don't day1 it's not a big deal. Scum want to from the very beginning of day1 | ||
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 04 2012 06:52 debears wrote: Why isn't it a big deal? If a townie who doesn't appear innocent is lynched, it's much harder to find which of the voters(if any) were making "forced" arguments.Djo's words implies that he feels pressure that he must appear townie, and I don't think that townies actually feel pressure to prove they're innocent, unless it's lylo. A townie may want to appear innocent, but if they don't day1 it's not a big deal. Scum want to from the very beginning of day1 | ||
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
Almost every single one of your posts has focused on Djo, ever since he accused you. Encouraging discussion on Djo, directly responding to Djo, answering other people here and there and bringing discussion back to Djo. Why haven't you voted him? Nobody seems to have talked about CC in depth besides Djo, and both of them are almost exclusively addressing each other. My problem with CC is that he seems content to lurk and poke holes in Djo's arguments, while not really commenting outside of that. Mr. Cheese~ I would like to see your opinions on everybody in this game so far, not just Djo. I don't know whether or not to think you're town or scum, but I've had an unsettling suspicion since early on, and I want to see you stop semi-lurking. You're active, you're able to contribute meaningfully, and people apparently heed your words because nobody has remotely looked into you besides Djo, who is scummy and receiving flak for it. I'm going to take a break from actively reading and re-reading the thread to go play some games and enjoy the weekend - if somebody has any questions for me, I should be checking the thread periodically and will be able to answer, but I'm not going to do any more filter reading until late this evening, prob ~10-11 PST. | ||
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
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Mr. Cheesecake
United States3756 Posts
On November 04 2012 07:35 Obzy wrote: @CC Almost every single one of your posts has focused on Djo, ever since he accused you. Encouraging discussion on Djo, directly responding to Djo, answering other people here and there and bringing discussion back to Djo. Why haven't you voted him? Nobody seems to have talked about CC in depth besides Djo, and both of them are almost exclusively addressing each other. My problem with CC is that he seems content to lurk and poke holes in Djo's arguments, while not really commenting outside of that. Mr. Cheese~ I would like to see your opinions on everybody in this game so far, not just Djo. I don't know whether or not to think you're town or scum, but I've had an unsettling suspicion since early on, and I want to see you stop semi-lurking. You're active, you're able to contribute meaningfully, and people apparently heed your words because nobody has remotely looked into you besides Djo, who is scummy and receiving flak for it. I'm going to take a break from actively reading and re-reading the thread to go play some games and enjoy the weekend - if somebody has any questions for me, I should be checking the thread periodically and will be able to answer, but I'm not going to do any more filter reading until late this evening, prob ~10-11 PST. I'm semi-lurking, but I'm active. Holy contradiction batman. Why haven't I voted? Because when I vote, it means something. We have 24 hours to go and a lot can happen in that time. So, basically what you want to hear is my opinion on everyone in this game so far? Okay. Here goes. Debears - Played scum with this sexy beast last game. His opening play was very similar to last time, but he's very hard to read despite this. The entire fluff thing between him and Rad was just even more fluff that didn't really achieve anything. I'm going with null on him for now. Rad - Got this suspicion that he's town. Seems pretty genuine to me. Sylver - Leaning town for me, the vote on Debears wasn't uncalled for as some would call it. He gave his opinion on the most suspicious person in the thread so far, and it happened to be Debears for the FoS + fluff. Cool. Gives decent insights and opinions. Da0ud - need more posts from him first. Seemed like he sheeped onto one of my Djo points to FoS him. Clarity - The only thing I find suspicious is that he comes in randomly to post this to somehow bolster my point. He hadn't been around for ~40mins prior and hasn't been around since. On November 04 2012 05:47 Clarity_nl wrote: I noticed that too. The distinction between "I wanted to show that I was trying to spark discussion" and "I was trying to spark discussion" is definitely a relevant one. Alsn - Strong on opinion, FoS's his biggest scumreads right away. Calls out Debears, I like it. Nothing too bad so far. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
Do you really want me to go through the whole thread and pick out all the times that debears chain-posted oneliners? I think it's a waste of time. He's done it, he's not really doing it anymore, I'm satisfied as far as that is concerned. If you're so interested, look for yourself. Shit, if I'm your only scum read, why aren't you putting pressure on me? | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
He's either a strongly confirmation biased town or a scum. His 180 on me leads me to believe he's scum Summary: - Telling others how to post. Saying "let's get off topic x" - t - Talking about last game - these types of things are easy for scum to say. It makes them look like they are contributing without . doing so and care about the town - Excuse to not make reads - i don't get why you wouldn't make reads as town. If you're wrong, you're wrong and there's no shame in that. If you're scum, not making reads is good since you can just sheep later - 180 on me - His 180 and sudden aggressiveness on my obsy post doesn't seem like it was his idea. It feels coached/coming from his partner (this point I would really like some input on from everyone) and it most definitely doesn't feel like a genuine change of suspicion about me - refusal to answer my % fluff question - it wasn't a hard question to answer and he wouldn't do it Thread cop mentality + Show Spoiler + On November 03 2012 11:32 Rad wrote: You're over-thinking this. KISS - keep it simple stupid Let's lynch lurkers so we can guarantee only active players and increase our chance to get good reads. Also, let's move on from this debate as it's cluttering up the thread. Here Rad says "let's move on from policy", yet he fails to offer a suggestion. On November 03 2012 11:42 Rad wrote: @djo Not sure, something useful I'm sure debears will think of something if he's shooting for a filter size that only you could possibly achieve. He then says that he wants me to come up with something. He is taking a backseat. On November 04 2012 00:34 Rad wrote: @Djo I intend to answer debears. It's a question that requires some research and thought. Let's try to make this game cleaner in terms of the filters. Give people time to answer questions rather than restate that a question is waiting to be answered. It's of no use to town. If you find someone has skipped answering a question for a long period of time, that's when you can jump in and point it out. Talking about last game + Show Spoiler + On November 04 2012 00:12 Rad wrote: Regarding your bolded question to me, what do you want me to confirm? Define "good." Good for town winning or good for me having a blast? Cause I had a blast, even though I got the wrong shot, it was so fun trying to figure out who to use it on, and I submitted the kill request the very last second I could (probably why the night post took longer, I bet thrawn had to rewrite it). Had I gotten a scum with the shot, who knows what that would have done to me, hell it might have pushed my confirmation bias even further. Certainly I would have centered in on cheese 100% if kush flipped scum that game. Anyway, "good for town"? I have no idea. Good for getting me super interested last game? You bet. Also, it taught me some lessons I would not have learned otherwise. Here Rad goes way off tangent about how much fun he had as vig last game. Wtf does that have to do with this game and Djo's question? On November 03 2012 11:54 Rad wrote: I used newbie card 2-3 times last game, I think. I don't really know what to say about it. When I used it last game, I meant it, clearly, as I was town, and that was my very first game. So, I was just being honest. I think it's an interesting thing to bring up though, because had it not been brought up last game, I would have used it much more, and it probably would have hurt more than helped. Since it was brought up at the beginning, I at least attempted not to use it, and only used it when I felt it was the only explanation. So I would agree, attempt to stay away from the newbie card if at all possible. Here he mentions how he played the newbie card last game. What good does this post do? We already know playing th newbie card is bad. I believe Djo had already mentioned it. This is the type of post that makes it look like you are contributing without actually doing so. Excuse for not making reads for 1st half of d1 + Show Spoiler + On November 03 2012 15:14 Rad wrote: @Obzy Tomorrow and Sunday I will be trying to figure out some sort of a case for sure. I made a lot of terrible reads my first game (newbie XXIX) that lead to dead townies, so I'm going to be trying to approach it differently this time (more like how I was approaching the game near end of XXIX, not that I expect you to know what I mean by that, but everyone else in this game might understand the differences). Why do we need to know you aren't making reads for the first half of d1? Why does making cases on townies by accident when the mafia is heavily interfering have any influence on this game? You don't even know if mafia is active or not if you are town. Everyone makes bad cases. I don't see others making excuses for not making reads because of it. It sounds like you are trying to defend yourself when you have no reason to, which is inherent of a guilty conscience. Sudden 180 on me + Show Spoiler + After my obsy post, Rad didn't immediately jump on it saying I was attacking Obsy. This is what he said On November 03 2012 13:42 Rad wrote: @Clarity That's a great point and I want to reemphasize it. @Obzy If you're town, please disregard any suggestions about you being useless so far. Just keep attempting to be useful and you'll get the hang of it. You don't have to post as much as debears, djo, or even myself to be useful so don't get discouraged. However, don't hold back and give your input on things when you have input as it'll be helpful to town if we get some more input from you. Also I see debears has directed some questions at you so here's a chance to open up a bit. In this post, he doesn't seem to think I'm attacking Obsy. He seems to think that I'm giving Obsy some questions to kick start his participation. Read the last line. Yet, he suddenly turns into this after I ask him for reads on sylver/dau0d/djo and tell him there's no reason to not scumhunt because you might make a few bad cases On November 04 2012 00:46 Rad wrote: I haven't said I don't plan on scumhunting. What gives you that impression? You're coming to a false conclusion on what I've been talking about. Concerning obzy, what do you mean I seemed too focused on it? I tried to help him understand my stance on lurkers because he had some issues with it. Then I had to jump in and make sure he didn't get super demotivated because YOU were calling his posts useless and worthless. What does a town want a newbie town to do? Learn how to play the game and be useful to town. What does a scum want a newbie town to do? Feel scared at the thought of being terrible at the game, back off, say nothing out of fear. How exactly are you helping town by talking shit to the new guy at the beginning of d1? He is super defensive. He suddenly changes his opinions on my post on obsy for literally no reason. Oh and I posted this earlier after my original obsy post. On November 03 2012 13:47 debears wrote: Yeah. That case is in no way saying omg he's scum. It's more of light pressure to get him to state some views, be more active in this. However, Rad, what I would like to know is that, although you are obviously following the thread in the shadows, you aren't posting to much. Why is that? My intent on making a post on obsy seems pretty clear to me that I was trying to get him to be active. Yet, Rad somehow interprets my post as an attack on Obsy's ego. On November 04 2012 01:27 Rad wrote: Pressure's fine with me. That wasn't pressure though. That was an attack on his ego and the only motivation I can see for it is to shut him down fast and create a lurker out of him (which, as you know, many of us would want to lynch). What reaction of yours to his response are you talking about? All I see is "So what is your exact read on me? Scum, slightly scum, null, slightly town, or town?" but that's just a question, not motivational or de-motivational. Did he forget that I told Obsy to go get coaching help? How is my original post on Obsy an "attack on his ego? Refusal to answer a simple question + Show Spoiler + On November 04 2012 02:26 Rad wrote: What good does this percentage do except make some arbitrary point to argue about endlessly? "50% fluff, scum!!!" "only 25% fluff, clearly not a scum tell!" I'm trying to figure out what you expect to come from such a number. If you're scum and you want alsn to waste time coming up with this percentage, clearly you don't think it'll be damning. Nothing to come out of this number except WIFOM on both sides of the argument. After asking Alsn to quote all my fluff posts then all my content posts, Rad jumps on me about "wasting time". How would that be wasting time if you think I'm scummy? Also, he refuses to answer how much percentage fluff there is in my filter off the top of his head. His refusal to respond to a simple question is anti-town. His response is basically "that's useless". | ||
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
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debears
United States2516 Posts
read the 180 part with rad real quick. You can read the rest of the case later | ||
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