EPTIt's worth noting, you're actually doing what I'm asking of you right now, even as you're calling me out for being frustrated at you for it. Thanks, I guess?
Newbie Mini Mafia XXX - Page 24
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
It's worth noting, you're actually doing what I'm asking of you right now, even as you're calling me out for being frustrated at you for it. Thanks, I guess? | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On November 04 2012 03:38 sylverfyre wrote: At the time, your posts were a lot of oneliners. If you have a 30 page post of oneliners (instead of longer posts, with more than one sentence of information per post) then it's much harder to read your filter. Which is bad for town. All I'm asking there is to up your words per post and cool down on the tripleposting. It's worth noting, you're actually doing what I'm asking of you right now, even as you're calling me out for being frustrated at you for it. Thanks, I guess? While you consider a long filter bad for town, have you considered that an active town, especially super active town, is extremely bad for scum. They lose control of the thread, and have a threat who is invested and reads things over. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 04 2012 03:35 sylverfyre wrote: I was trying to say that inactivity wouldn't be a problem. On the part of the entire town. I was looking at the player list, and the speed at which people signed up for the game, and making that judgement. I guess it could be construed as a slip to say townies. But if the entire player base is active, then the town doesn't need to worry about lurker policy, do they? I said townies, because Inactivity isn't a problem for scum. They won last game because of it. Inactivity is a problem for town, town is the only faction that needs to worry about it. I don't think it will be a problem this game - I'm forecasting we aren't going to have any massive lurk problems (like Roco). Maybe it was a slip, but I think it reflects exactly what I was thinking at the time. (Inactivity = problem for townies. Low inactivity = good for townies) @ sylver So you have used townies first, then you said that you meant players and now you are saying that townies was the right word to use ? Do you have any town reads to share ? | ||
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 04 2012 03:46 debears wrote: And artificially increasing your filter is what? At best it's a genuine attempt at making the observers laugh about something, at worst you're scum trying to hide behind Hapa's advice that he has posted after/during almost every single newbie lately, that lynching the most active player is almost always a mislynch. Neither of those help us find scum.While you consider a long filter bad for town, have you considered that an active town, especially super active town, is extremely bad for scum. They lose control of the thread, and have a threat who is invested and reads things over. | ||
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On November 04 2012 03:51 Alsn wrote: And artificially increasing your filter is what? At best it's a genuine attempt at making the observers laugh about something, at worst you're scum trying to hide behind Hapa's advice that he has posted after/during almost every single newbie lately, that lynching the most active player is almost always a mislynch. Neither of those help us find scum. Where do you get that I'm artificially increasing my filter? I'm not posting for the sake of filter. I'm posting for the sake of discussion and finding scum | ||
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
Clarity and Rad still look town. db looks town. I'm worried about Sylver. I thought that his logic on voting debears was legitimate, due to the difference between content-filled posts and non-useful posts, but this- was not at all what I was thinking. I was considering the more spammy posts to be some of the shallower arguments, like joke-metas and general aggressiveness. Single, isolated posts that include no legitimate content are not difficult to read through. Perhaps this is nit-picking, but bringing up these posts does not sit well with me, if the intention was to show db's 'empty' filter. He's helping to create a pro-town atmosphere with those posts, and they can't be used for any sort of analysis. I still don't think debears is scummy for bringing me up, @rad. It got me to post, so the method doesn't matter. (Even if pointing out the flaws in the posts makes sense.) I don't know what to think about Djo. He told me it'd be better to focus my attention, but was talking about plurality lynch implying that we should be willing to remain unfocused early on, since a majority isn't required - maybe I'm misinterpreting? CC's post about going after sylver for early vote pressure and then referencing previous games doesn't really make him look that bad though, it looks too blatant. Like, why would he make that mistake as scum <_< it goes directly against the way he had been playing lol. He has some scummy stuff but I wouldn't want to vote him. I'd continue but someone just asked if I wanted to go get lunch so I'm going to do so. Haven't had time to look at Alsn or CC's filters. Sylver looks bad-ish, Rad Clar and debears look good atm imho. Should be back in a few hours, I kinda want to do something today besides sitting reading the thread with a notebook ^_^;; But I'll try to be around, if anybody has anything to ask me please do so; I'll sit down with it when I get back again. | ||
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
imo :x Be back later, as mentioned above. | ||
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
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Rad
United States935 Posts
On November 04 2012 02:56 Rad wrote: He made up a number to get you to shut up about it. I'm not done with this until you give me a good reason you would want anyone to: a) Go through all your posts (large filter already), separate them into fluff and non fluff b) Come up with an exact percentage of your fluff. If you're town, you wouldn't want anyone to waste their time doing either of the above because it wouldn't matter at all. Scum hunting town is ultimately wasting time in the end. Only you know if you're town, so as town, you would want people to not scum hunt you. You don't have to worry about any fluff case alsn has until it has put you at risk of being lynched. If you're scum, it makes sense to want to make people waste their time. Explain your motivation. @debears I was serious here, I need an explanation of your motivation before I can move on. I'm getting the impression from you that you're not going to reply because you switched over to sylver and stuck to it long enough now without a response to me. | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On November 04 2012 04:06 Alsn wrote: Obsy, I'd like you to revise your statement at the end of your post. Sylver looks "bad"? What does that even mean? Rad, Clar, and debears looks good? Again, what does this mean? Does bad = scum? Or are you just accusing him of making bad arguments? The last part of his post seems to be a repeat of the start of his post, like a recap. So I interpret it as good = town, bad = possible scum? Anyway.... ##vote da0ud Seriously dude, I realize you are on a different timezone but that doesn't excuse you from having no original thoughts at all. Your filter is less than a page and every post you'd made has been some variant of "I (dis)agree with you!" without further explanation. I am no longer suspect of Alsn, at least not as much. Although he seems to have a hard on for debears and djo he's making decent points and trying to further conversation. Debears... I'm not quite sure. The stubbornness about sylver's post where he said he has a lot of fluff really shouldn't have been that big of a deal, he just couldn't let it go. Maybe Rad is on to something. | ||
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Mr. Cheesecake
United States3756 Posts
You say that Clarity and Rad are looking town. What makes you think this? Also, I find it alarming that you dismiss my post concerning Djo's "vote pressure". He completely has a change of opinion from last game to this one. As town, he favored vote-pressure and used it to cast suspicion on people he found slightly scummy. This game, he abhors it. It's completely contradictory no matter how you look at it (we could aruge the intricacies of it all day, but it's still a reversal of opinion). @Debears Who is your biggest scumread at this point, and why? @Rad Debears aside, who do you think is acting the most suspicious? Do you think Sylver's opinion / vote on Debears is in any way scummy? On a related note: You guys talking about fluff is producing more fluff than the fluff itself. | ||
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Mr. Cheesecake
United States3756 Posts
I have the inclination to agree with Clarity on your thought process. Your first post is a FoS on Djo that completely reiterates my point about him saying "I was re-reading the thread...". I'd like to see some more original thoughts from you. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
I want you to comment on these posts before you ask Obzy or other people what they think about my stance on "vote pressure". Are you trying to dismiss my explanations for what I wrote ? Please check the spoilers and read carefully this time. I'm sorry for the tone of this post but you pissed me off by being unable to see the reference to debears FoS against Alsn in sylverfire post. + Show Spoiler + On November 04 2012 01:47 Djodref wrote: I have no problem with people using their vote to pressure people into talking or whatever reason they have if they state a reasonable explanation for a pressure vote. My problem with sylverfire post is that the initial reasons he gave for his vote were that debears filter was fluffy and that he cast a quick FoS on Alsn. Then he said that he also wanted to cast suspicion upon debears. He never said that he was using his vote as a pressure vote in the first place. The regrettable thing is that other people said this before he could defend himself. According to me, if you think that a player is suspicious enough to vote against him, you should persuade other players to vote for him, which sylverfire has failed to do imho. But I might not understand exactly the meaning of "cast suspicion", I see this expression as quite pejorative. + Show Spoiler + On November 04 2012 02:11 Djodref wrote: @ Cheese FoS on debears ? Where did I say that ? To be honest, my case on Inig was far-fetched last game and I knew it. I was really finding Inig suspicious at that time but he didn't really deserve a case. I was in a bad position and I wanted to show everybody that I was scumhunting. But, of course, I was not going to say something like that. Also, you are wrong about my goals. When I'm saying that I'm pressure vote someone, my first goal is to put pressure on the player to react and start posting if he was lurking. Last game, I had no intent to lynch nachktjogger at the end of D2 nor did I find him really suspicious. But here again, it was a bluff, so he was not going say it in plain sight. I make a distinction between pressure votes and suspicion votes. I don't think that sylver voting intent was to put pressure on debears to force him to post less fluff. If sylver wanted to cast suspicion upon debears, a FoS would have been more appropriate. I understand now that you cast suspicion upon anyone while voting him, whatever your reason is. But this is a consequence of your vote and it should not be the reason why you vote someone. | ||
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Rad
United States935 Posts
On November 04 2012 04:41 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: @Rad Debears aside, who do you think is acting the most suspicious? Do you think Sylver's opinion / vote on Debears is in any way scummy? I don't have any really strong reads on anyone yet. I'd say to me, so far, (debears aside) djo is most suspicious, but it's the same kind of suspicion I had last game so I'm forcing myself to not take it seriously yet. I'm fine with sylver's super early pressure vote. Because he's in the spotlight now I'll probably step back and look into him more but nothing has jumped out as scummy to me so far. Obzy feels pretty townie so far. You, cheese, seem very different from last game and I need to spend some time thinking about that. Pretty null on everyone else. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
I told you to focus on some players and to vote for your top scumread. If you try to think by yourself, you might be able to find one player who hasn't any vote against him yet. In this case, due to the plurality lynch, he could be lynched even with a few votes, including yours. I don't see any contradiction with you focusing and how we should use plurality lynch. Please tell me if you didn't understand my explanation. I'm afraid I wasn't very clear... | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
If you don't have enough information to make a read make sure to get more information. It would be too easy for scum to go: "Ah, I dunno, don't really have any reads" You shouldn't be getting away with this as town. I'm curious as to any cases you might make in the next 24 hours. | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
What I mean is, be careful about how you look when you don't take a stand on anything. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
Do you mind discussing why I'm suspicious in your eyes. I've just skimmed through your filter and I didn't see you making points against me. I must say that I've skimmed very quickly... @ everyone Nobody is commenting on sylver latest explanation for his slip ? He first said that he meant players and now he is saying that townies was the right one to use. | ||
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Rad
United States935 Posts
On November 04 2012 05:02 Clarity_nl wrote: Although caution can be a good thing Rad, you should be careful. If you don't have enough information to make a read make sure to get more information. It would be too easy for scum to go: "Ah, I dunno, don't really have any reads" You shouldn't be getting away with this as town. I'm curious as to any cases you might make in the next 24 hours. I get your concern. However, I haven't shown any reason for you to believe I won't be scum hunting plenty between now and end of d1. I wasn't making some sort of excuse, I was just pointing out that I don't have great reads at the moment. My scum hunting is much more based on reacting to things that happen rather than causing things to happen. Good or bad, it's been that way since beginning of last game. I think there's plenty of conversation going on right now and we're all getting more information to base our thoughts on at a good pace. | ||
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