EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXIX - Page 43
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Rad
United States935 Posts
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
I can definitely see now that Inig was at least somewhat lynch worthy leading up to the end of the day. I think his arguments are a bit weak but at the very least he is trying. I'm leaning either slightly scummy or inexperienced townie but I'm having a hard time deciding which. The way he handled his case against Dandel makes me lean slightly towards inexperienced townie. It just doesn't seem like a good scum strategy, or even a bad one. Sylver looks scummy to me, however like Inig he could just be playing a poor town game. He's basically playing the same way Djodref is(lots of banter, not much content). I'm not yet sure of what to make of the fact that he has gone after Djod hard(whom I as you should all well know by now I am suspicious of). I find it very unlikely that they are both scum and setting up a bus this early. Dandel is a null tell to me, possibly leaning somewhat scummy. He has been very outspoken but at the same time he hasn't really said all that much either. I'm inclined to agree slightly with Inig's case against him, yet I feel his alignment is a toss up right now. However, Roco and Nackh seriously need to start posting. With how not very certain I am about the few scum reads I have I'm inclined to believe that either I'm wrong about one/some of my town reads, or one of them might indeed be scum. I think that's about as much as I can accomplish tonight. I've had a pretty long day. If I survive the night I'll look more closely on the specific cases that people have made tomorrow(so far I've mostly noted who they've been suspicious about and how strongly, not so much the why's) as I just haven't had the time to go very much in depth so far. Strongest scum read is still Djod, slightly stronger than before the lynch, but I'm still not nearly certain. | ||
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=367548 Featuring debears + Kush as scumteam And me as a replacement for a town baddie. | ||
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Rad
United States935 Posts
Don't worry about roco, he didn't vote and is to be replaced ASAP. See the night 1 post where thrawn says this. | ||
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Rad
United States935 Posts
I'm going to look through it a bit, not really looking for anything in particular. What do you think about kush's claim? Do you think he's lying about not realizing he was on a scumteam with debears? | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
They way they all cuddled up to each other in the postgame and stuff, it makes it really hard to believe for me. | ||
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Rad
United States935 Posts
On October 28 2012 07:51 Dandel Ion wrote: Yah. They way they all cuddled up to each other in the postgame and stuff, it makes it really hard to believe for me. Ahh yeah, I see. On October 11 2012 00:31 kushm4sta wrote: lol @ debears coach @Kush, why wouldn't debears make a good coach? | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
On October 28 2012 08:02 Rad wrote: Ahh yeah, I see. @Kush, why wouldn't debears make a good coach? Because only experienced people should be coaches? Also at that point I'm pretty sure I didn't realize he was my scumbud from 2 games ago or else I wouldn't have acted like a dick towards him. | ||
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Inigmaticalism
United States103 Posts
As I said I am utterly wary about kush. And I already posted about him posting about debears pm and about his town knowledge assumption. Here is what I learned reading kush's filter. Until the most recent posts where he has given short descriptions on multiple people, kush has been clear and focused. Case on da0ud, nothing else, takes a stance on me and consistently, in his own words "soft defends" me. And since then has appeared fairly helpful but has mostly been defending himself. This is interesting though. Day1 he explains he does not want to lynch Djo, even though he thinks he looks scummy, giving room to see what he will do (and prods Djo to do so). After Djo appears wishy-washy in the lynch Djo becomes kush's next top scum read. Logical follow-through. And then this On October 28 2012 01:13 kushm4sta wrote: djo is scum btw guys and then another post right after On October 28 2012 02:32 kushm4sta wrote: Djo is #1 acting like my lynch is a certainty when it's definitely not. I have a lot of time to show you guys I am town and I will. #2 Covering his ass if I get mislynched. Yet again. I already told you I will make the case on you at the end of n1. You can defend yourself d2. And you are telling vig to shoot me?? Seriously?? Because I pushed a mislynch d1.. lol that happens almost every game. And it was way better than you who was just liek damn guys I dont know who to lynch TT So once again focused. He says he will bring a case against Djo tonight, and I am interested in reading it combined with Mr CCs promised case. I thought kush was just throwing Djo out there but then found this last post I quoted. Conclusion: Kush is a strange new piece of food that Ive never tired before, and Im keeping it at arms length because I dont know if its poisonous or not. The only way to find out is to ask questions, but it seems kush it getting enough heat so Ill only join in if I find anything (besides what I have found) useful. It seems to me that if nothing drastic changes (day post doesnt change much, not really any new cases) kush will be lynched tomorrow based on the overall opinions in the thread. It is my goal for Day 2 to find at least 1 good scum case because I dont think a kush lynch is optimal right now because I feel I do not know enough, and frankly the recent cases against him arent very strong. spcifically @Rad: if you can explain what we could possibly gain from knowing kush was lying about not recognizing debears I would become more interested in the answer. Kush did pretty much talk to debears most on Day 1 after all. | ||
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Inigmaticalism
United States103 Posts
I also wanted to comment on you. While youve been in the same category Ive put sylver in (suspicious lurker) Im liking your more recent posts as they are actually contributing and also how you have not forgotten past arguments and cases and have brought them back up. At the very least it tells me you are to some degree attentive and serious. | ||
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Mr. Cheesecake
United States3756 Posts
MY OPINION ON DJODREF A compilation of quotes, and reasons why I believe he is guilty By: Mr. Cheesecake _____________________________________________________________________________________________________ The Scumslip + Show Spoiler + On October 25 2012 18:25 Djodref wrote: Here is the infamous scumslip by Djo, he refers to Da0ud explicitly as town (who we now know IS town). There is little to say here: How does Djo know Da0ud is town? He doesn't even have a reason to think he's town. He even votes for Da0ud which I will address later.daoud Good ! I'm not planning on defending you this game so I expect you to do your job as town  What's your take on the Rad-debears argument by the way? Furthermore, Djo provides us with the weakest defense for a scumslip ever: On October 25 2012 18:40 Djodref wrote: I don't know already if you are town or not. I've spoken too fast because I was thinking of our last game where you were town. It was a slip, but not a scumslip Regarding Roco, I understand your hunch but he reminds me your first weird posts last game. He is suspicious but he doesn't deserve red bold font yet imo ^^ All he says is "Not a scumslip, please move along" and plays it off like no big deal with a characteristic smiley and ^^. This explanation is nowhere near adequate enough to address the issue. “Are you Mafia?" Question + Show Spoiler + On October 25 2012 18:31 Djodref wrote: @Roco I have more questions for you. Why do you want to never be suspected ? Are you mafia ? I first picked up on this in my original FoS post. Why would you ask someone explicitly if they are mafia? What is even the PURPOSE of this? Is he attempting to arouse suspicion for Roco? On October 26 2012 01:12 Djodref wrote: How on God's green Earth would asking someone if they are mafia make them uncomfortable? All a scum player would need to rebuke it is: No. There is zero town motivation for asking someone if they are mafia.@sylver I'm sorry but not wanting to look suspicious is totally natural from a townie, especially from a total newbie. Adding the second question was only to make him uncomfortable if he was mafia. His Questions about Inig + Show Spoiler + It is obvious from the very beginning that Djo is suspicious of Ini. He asks everyone about what they think of him. Firstly: Why would Djo care what anyone else thinks? If his scum read were strong enough, he'd have the confidence (there's that word again...) to make a case without input from a third party. Secondly: He sometimes asks these questions in context of something else, as if to brush off some accusation against him. On October 25 2012 18:51 Djodref wrote: @daoud What do you think about Ini ? On October 25 2012 23:21 Djodref wrote: @debears If you are around, I would like to know what do you think about Inig first posts. On October 26 2012 01:21 Djodref wrote: I don't think that debears is advocating chaos. In my point of view, he is certainly promoting discussion. We could as well being still discussing policy lynches if he wasn't here. And please remind that it's quite easy for mafia to avoid a policy lynch. By the way, do you believe that we can lynch a scum on D1 ? What do you think of Inig ? He throws out two questions, one of them being about inig. What does Inig have anything to do with the discussion at hand? The only reason I can see for it is an attempt to derail the thread into something about Inig. On October 26 2012 08:25 Djodref wrote: @Alsn I would expect more from you than an half-assed FoS on me  What do you think about Inig ? He completely brushes off the FoS from Alsn and asks about Inig instead. On October 26 2012 10:15 Djodref wrote: AGAIN, brushing off the FoS from Alsn, in favor of pursing interests of Ini.Honestly, I don't really care if Alsn has a FoS on me if it is for the reasons he has stated in his post. I know he is totally able to come at me with something more consistent if he really thinks I'm scum. Right now, I think his reasons are poor and I'm more interested in his opinion about Ini. These questions are nothing more than attempts to deflect discussion, away from him or otherwise, onto something else. An Appeal to Emotion + Show Spoiler + On October 26 2012 01:31 Djodref wrote: I'm still feeling bad for tunneling until death last game I even didn't have the balls to state that I had changed my mind about you at the end. As I feel some townie vibes from you in this game, I thought I could at least defend you this one time. debears <3 This is an outright appeal to emotion. He's feeling bad about last game, sure. Why bring it up? It bears no significance to anything in the thread other than making us feel bad for him. He even gives Debears a <3... really? 180 on Inig + Show Spoiler + On October 27 2012 08:56 Djodref wrote: Please note that this is the entire vote post.## Vote daoud Because his involvement in this game has not been great so far... This is 100% completely contradictory to everything Djo has previously said / advocated about Inig. He had a case on Inig, he was always asking those questions about him. Inig was, apparently, his biggest scum read. Why the sudden 180 degree turn and vote for Da0ud? It makes no sense whatsoever, and his explanation for dropping the vote was "I'm really starting to doubt myself about Inig's case..." and his reason for voting Da0ud is: "his involvement hasn't been great." Hardly enough to justify a revote. Djo's attempt to discredit me + Show Spoiler + On October 27 2012 08:00 Djodref wrote: @ Cheese What the fuck are you doing with your vote still on my back ? Come in the thread and choose who you want to lynch today between daoud and Ini. Tell us your reasons about it ! Here he advocates that I choose a side on the Da0ud-Inig debate, which I eventually did once I returned. Also: why is he so paranoid about my vote on him? On October 27 2012 17:53 Djodref wrote: @ Cheese At this point, were you considering that daoud and Inig were better candidate than me ? You have been suspecting me for quite a long time D1 and you suddenly prefer to lynch daoud because some replacement came in and told you he was scummy ? You alsmost didn't consider him at all until that point yet you have no problem with lynching him instead of your top scumread (which was me) ? I'm pretty surprised that you didn't try to push my lynch. This post contradicts the previous. He explicitly TOLD me to weigh in on the debate and cast my vote for one of the others. Why the heck is he calling me out for it? Is this not what he asked for from me? On October 27 2012 23:19 Djodref wrote: As you can see, I was a little more than your best scumread. Nevertheless, you gave little to no protest about lynching daoud or ini over me. Big scumtell in my book. And here Djo is trying to further his case about my vote of Da0ud. There is a portion after the lynch where I try to explain to him that my biggest scumread was still on him. That pursuing his case at the time would have produced nothing; that I voted for Da0ud because he looked scummier than Inig; Check either of our filters about it. (page 38ish of the thread). He seems sour that I have a scumread / FoS on him and a vote most of the day. This entire ploy to discredit me is baseless, and likely an attempt to thwart my future attempts at scum hunting him. General Thread Clutter (my opinion) + Show Spoiler + Admittedly some of it is defense, his filter is huge and he's talking on absolutely every page. The thread doesn't need to know every thought that pops in your head. A large majority is just casual conversation without his own input on certain subjects. Is this an attempt to bury logical arguements? He's trying to post a lot to seem like he's contributing, but I find most of his questions/concerns pointless. Take the "scumtell on Kush" post. I don't think anyone in the thread thought it was a scumtell, but he made a fuss over it. A Final Note + Show Spoiler + Look at who Djodref has suspicions (FoS's) on. Me and Sylverfyre. I oppose him, and Sylverfyre has tunneled him hard. His best scum reads are on people that find him highly suspicious! What does this say? He's scared. He's scared and replying by digging up any dirt he can on us. After synthesizing all of what you have posted Djo, the jig is up. You are SCUM | ||
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Rad
United States935 Posts
On October 28 2012 08:22 Inigmaticalism wrote: @Rad As I said I am utterly wary about kush. And I already posted about him posting about debears pm and about his town knowledge assumption. Here is what I learned reading kush's filter. Until the most recent posts where he has given short descriptions on multiple people, kush has been clear and focused. Case on da0ud, nothing else, takes a stance on me and consistently, in his own words "soft defends" me. And since then has appeared fairly helpful but has mostly been defending himself. This is interesting though. Day1 he explains he does not want to lynch Djo, even though he thinks he looks scummy, giving room to see what he will do (and prods Djo to do so). After Djo appears wishy-washy in the lynch Djo becomes kush's next top scum read. Logical follow-through. And then this and then another post right after So once again focused. He says he will bring a case against Djo tonight, and I am interested in reading it combined with Mr CCs promised case. I thought kush was just throwing Djo out there but then found this last post I quoted. Conclusion: Kush is a strange new piece of food that Ive never tired before, and Im keeping it at arms length because I dont know if its poisonous or not. The only way to find out is to ask questions, but it seems kush it getting enough heat so Ill only join in if I find anything (besides what I have found) useful. It seems to me that if nothing drastic changes (day post doesnt change much, not really any new cases) kush will be lynched tomorrow based on the overall opinions in the thread. It is my goal for Day 2 to find at least 1 good scum case because I dont think a kush lynch is optimal right now because I feel I do not know enough, and frankly the recent cases against him arent very strong. spcifically @Rad: if you can explain what we could possibly gain from knowing kush was lying about not recognizing debears I would become more interested in the answer. Kush did pretty much talk to debears most on Day 1 after all. 2 things, inig. On the djo thing, I feel like it makes sense for kush (if scum) to center in on djo, because djo was the "scummy guy we didn't actually lynch but planned on in the future." In fact, if kush flips scum, I think that says a ton about djo. As for your question to me, I don't see a liar as useful to town. A liar is either scum, or a townie with a lot of potential to hurt town. If we catch kush in a lie, his credibility gets destroyed and if he is town, suddenly he's straight up useless. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On October 28 2012 06:10 kushm4sta wrote: @silverfyre can you link to your last games please? The forum mafia I've played was on a private guild MMO forum, sorry. Mostly played IRL, some IRC games (which were about the same duration as IRL games - ~10 min day / 2 min night cycles) | ||
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Inigmaticalism
United States103 Posts
I see your point, Im now interested to know as well. Based on what kush has already said though, I dont know how we are ever going to be able to confirm it. I will keep watching however. @Mr CC I love your post! I do not have time and am leaving immediately after I post this so I cant elaborate more until after day post, but your Djo's attempt to discredit me segment is profound. *I may as well not post anymore cause Im always proven wrong within the same page :/ | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
2nd priority would be Inig. - I would be tremendously surprised if there isn't at least one scum between the two of them. I get a strong town feeling from Rad. Once he learns how to make a proper case, you should (at least) listen to him. debears I'm leaning town, Djo I'm leaning scum, but those reads are not as strong. Everyone else is pretty null to me, with only slight feel-reads in either direction, or real proper null reads. | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
Oooo i just see that cheese posted a case. I will read that and consider it after I write this case on my new biggest scumread SILVERFYRE He votes for Roco 30 hours before lynch time. Except for lurker policy he says this: On October 25 2012 13:47 sylverfyre wrote: Also geez, as much as I like lynch a Lurker... isn't it a bit early? We're like 10% into day 1! If someone's still lurking when we're getting closer to lynch time, I could be convinced, but I feel like policy lynching lurkers should be something to resort to if we can't find anyone else being sketchy. With that, I'm going to bed. I'll be around most of tomorrow! So to clarify, he thinks lurker lynching should be a last resort (like everyone else basically), but he votes for a lurker 30 hours before lynch time. On October 26 2012 21:35 sylverfyre wrote: Running under the assumption that imcasey and Roco get modkilled if they don't show up, I'd lynch Djo. You say Inig has a lack of scumhunting but scrutinizing people and saying that you can only read town out of them is not a lack of scumhunting. For now, I'm going with lynching the confusing lurker. If he either becomes A) not confusing, B) makes no action at all and makes me believe a modkill is incoming, or C) is replaced and the replacement can make some contribution. Vote Roco69 No reasoning for wanting to lynch djo. All he gives is a reason for his town/null read on Inig. Later when prompted, he does give his reasons. On October 27 2012 00:24 sylverfyre wrote: To make it a more comprehensive list - poor responses to accusations in the past - "You sure are taking policy seriously" -> Attack lurkers aggressively (the contradiction inherent here) - accusing ini of "not scumhunting" when he posted his reads on people, simply because none of those reads were reads of scum (they were townie or null reads, and ini blatantly admitted such) - Emotional levels running awfully high as people mount pressure on you, but not much defense from accusations. - "I don't care if alsn has a FOS on me" is your only defense against him for a long time. Only just now did you even acknowledge his accusations as legit. - Accusing me of sheeping when I've made it clear that I was suspicious of you pretty early. Since then, you've given me more reasons to suspect you. I don't like this case. None of these are indicative of scum. | ||
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Rad
United States935 Posts
If I die, I'd also say lynch kush. Second 2 are inig and mr cheese. I'm not clear on djo or alsn or sylver yet. Maybe i'd say from most scum to least, sylver, djo, alsn debears is my biggest town read. the new guy, forget his name, has pissed me off by lurking and/or being useless | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
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