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On October 26 2012 11:43 VanGarde wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 11:33 Portlandian wrote:On October 26 2012 11:26 corpuscle wrote:On October 26 2012 11:23 Portlandian wrote:On October 26 2012 11:11 corpuscle wrote:
People saying that the new HotS updates are just some graphic designer dicking around in Photoshop to make a mockup to appease the masses: no, you are wrong, read more carefully. The XP system which was just previewed is something that's coming in the next beta patch, and that definitely took longer than a week for the dev team to throw together. Fucking read the information that's available to you before you run around smearing shit everywhere, this is getting really annoying. In other words, it's not out yet and all they have shown us is a couple mockups and a blog posts. See the post above you, you're being really dumb. Anyone that knows anything about programming and/or software engineering would 100% tell you that adding something like the XP system is a major underhauling that takes a long time, and has certainly been in the works since before the #savehots shitstorm. Major underhauling? No, it's just adding an XP field to a database, deciding what numbers the levels and portrait rewards are at, and assigning an XP value to each unit killed/produced. This is an incredibly simple change. I am a programmer myself. I don't think you are. lol, this guy. With a statement like that you are either a terrible programmer or you never actually worked on a project but by being a programmer you mean that you have written textbook console applications in c#.
He set the time on his microwave, so in his world he's a programmer.
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On October 26 2012 11:42 Portlandian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 11:31 Plansix wrote:On October 26 2012 11:18 Portlandian wrote:On October 26 2012 11:10 Plansix wrote:On October 26 2012 09:36 Portlandian wrote:On October 26 2012 09:31 VanGarde wrote:On October 26 2012 09:28 Portlandian wrote:On October 26 2012 09:17 dAPhREAk wrote:On October 26 2012 09:13 Portlandian wrote:On October 26 2012 09:06 fuzzylogic44 wrote:
Yeah they redesigned the UI in a week in response to a twitter hashtag campaign. These changes have been in the works for months because people have been complaining about the UI since day 1. They didn't redesign the UI, they just released a couple mockups and a writeup saying their intentions. Isn't it a bit daft to claim these changes have been in the works for months? Just a few months ago they released the 1.5 patch, which they intended to settle the UI issues. You think after releasing the patch which they intended to fix the UI, they immediately started work on another new UI? Do you have any evidence they were working on those mockups and writeup for months? do you have any evidence that they are in any way related to #savehots and destiny? no. Yes. The timing makes it obvious. Just ask anyone who knows anything about game development and I can tell you there is no fucking way they did any of these changes as a result of a bunch of whining retards on reddit. Not because of how stupid it would be for them to do that just based on that, but because it is not physically possible for them to change things that fast. They didn't make any changes.They released a couple mockups that would take a few hours at most, and a blog post. That's it. Joystiq.com proves you incorrect:From the article: Blizzard has plans for XP bonuses as well, either for specific awards like your first win of the day, or for more general happenings like XP bonus weekends and other special events. The leveling system is being added to the beta in the next patch (and will likely be reset a few times during testing), and will eventually be available in Heart of the Swarm when it's released. That proves me correct, as it is discussing a future patch. That is to say, these changes haven't been made. It's discussing the future. As I said before, I will repeat this simple and 100% accurate fact you seem to be avoiding: They didn't make any changes.They released a couple mockups that would take a few hours at most, and a blog post. That's it. This argument is getting extremely silly. Don't be so ridiculously defensive that you can't admit simple facts like the fact Blizzard didn't release a patch, they released a blog post that would take a couple hours of work from one person at most. And their hasty blog post was an obvious reaction to the negative publicity being generated. Nice try amend your argument: On October 26 2012 09:13 Portlandian wrote:On October 26 2012 09:06 fuzzylogic44 wrote:
Yeah they redesigned the UI in a week in response to a twitter hashtag campaign. These changes have been in the works for months because people have been complaining about the UI since day 1. They didn't redesign the UI, they just released a couple mockups and a writeup saying their intentions. Isn't it a bit daft to claim these changes have been in the works for months? Just a few months ago they released the 1.5 patch, which they intended to settle the UI issues. You think after releasing the patch which they intended to fix the UI, they immediately started work on another new UI? Do you have any evidence they were working on those mockups and writeup for months? In this post you clearly imply that the changes have not been worked on for months and where mock ups thrown together in response to Destiny's reddit post. However, to be released in the next beta patch, they would have to be worked on months in advance to address bugs and create the installer for the patch. Now I know you don't like facts, multiculturalism, or certified documents proving someone was born in a specific location. I am sure you will be able to bend your perception of reality enough so you are still correct. I am now going to follow my fathers advice and stop arguing with a fool. They obviously haven't been working on it for months, if that were the case they would have it done by now. Don't be absurd. Furthermore months ago they released the 1.5 patch, intended to fix the UI. Why would they have immediately started on a new UI after that? What was the purpose of the 1.5 UI then? It doesn't make the slightest bit of sense to claim they have been working on this for months. It's absolutely ludicrous really, and you have no evidence at all. It only surfaced after the negative publicity for HOTS. Maybe they had started bandying about the idea internally a few days or weeks before the negative publicity campaign, but obviously the hasty blog post made when all they have to show is a couple mockups and goals was a response to the growing negative publicity. So what exactly is your argument at this point? Negative publicity can and does get a reaction from Blizzard. It's proven to work. It worked this time, it worked when they removed the Warhound, and it can work in the future if people keep it up. That's why EG are defending Blizzard from the negative publicity. Because it works, and they are afraid of it.
The only thing that is likely is that they REVEALED their already planned and under construction changes earlier than they had first planned in order to tone down the negative publicity. But you have to be a whole new level off both stupid and full of yourself to think that Blizzard which is a huge company with a well defined production pipeline would in just a few days, read posts on reddit, then have a lead on the team just skip the entirety of their iterative process and internal discussions and tell someone on the ui team to stop what he is doing, forego the normal procedure for adding in new functionality and quickly Photoshop a production concept of the new ui so that it could be released to the community to calm down a mob of angry retard on reddit. Not only can you not ever have worked in software you can't ever have had a job at all if you think that is a reasonable process.
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On October 26 2012 11:32 Leth0 wrote:
Keep digging that hole for yourself port. You have no shame whatsoever.
What should I be ashamed of? Having a realistic perspective on financial motivations?
One day you will grow up and be disappointed to learn that Blizzard and EG are not your friends. They are businesses. They are trying to make a lot of money, not have fun.
They don't even care if you are having fun, as long as you continue buying their crap. If you aren't enjoying the game and are worried it's not being fixed in the expansion? Too bad. Keep quiet. They want you to help market the game for them instead of complaining, but that doesn't benefit the players or the viewers it only benefits the businessmen.
Keep your head in the clouds as long as you can though. Sometimes I wish I could go back to being an idealistic child.
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On October 26 2012 11:46 VanGarde wrote:
The only thing that is likely is that they REVEALED their already planned and under construction changes earlier than they had first planned in order to tone down the negative publicity. But you have to be a whole new level off both stupid and full of yourself to think that Blizzard which is a huge company with a well defined production pipeline would in just a few days, read posts on reddit, then have a lead on the team just skip the entirety of their iterative process and internal discussions and tell someone on the ui team to stop what he is doing, forego the normal procedure for adding in new functionality and quickly Photoshop a production concept of the new ui so that it could be released to the community to calm down a mob of angry retard on reddit. Not only can you not ever have worked in software you can't ever have had a job at all if you think that is a reasonable process.
So we agree that it was at least a reaction from them. That's the important point.
You are exaggerating how difficult it would be to slap together the announced features, but I won't argue that point until we see how long it takes them to release the patch.
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On October 26 2012 11:43 VanGarde wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 11:33 Portlandian wrote:On October 26 2012 11:26 corpuscle wrote:On October 26 2012 11:23 Portlandian wrote:On October 26 2012 11:11 corpuscle wrote:
People saying that the new HotS updates are just some graphic designer dicking around in Photoshop to make a mockup to appease the masses: no, you are wrong, read more carefully. The XP system which was just previewed is something that's coming in the next beta patch, and that definitely took longer than a week for the dev team to throw together. Fucking read the information that's available to you before you run around smearing shit everywhere, this is getting really annoying. In other words, it's not out yet and all they have shown us is a couple mockups and a blog posts. See the post above you, you're being really dumb. Anyone that knows anything about programming and/or software engineering would 100% tell you that adding something like the XP system is a major underhauling that takes a long time, and has certainly been in the works since before the #savehots shitstorm. Major underhauling? No, it's just adding an XP field to a database, deciding what numbers the levels and portrait rewards are at, and assigning an XP value to each unit killed/produced. This is an incredibly simple change. I am a programmer myself. I don't think you are. lol, this guy. With a statement like that you are either a terrible programmer or you never actually worked on a project but by being a programmer you mean that you have written textbook console applications in c#.
Please, elaborate. What step of this incredibly complicated process of adding xp to their database and rewarding xp for each kill did I miss?
It's really, really, really simple. I actually have a hard time thinking of a more easy and superficial change than adding xp values to units killed/produced.
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Could anyone tell me where I could get mp3 of Lo3 and ItG? I have been searching for an hour but can not find any link to the more current episodes.
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On October 26 2012 12:01 t0k3n98 wrote:
Could anyone tell me where I could get mp3 of Lo3 and ItG? I have been searching for an hour but can not find any link to the more current episodes.
Follow DJwheat on his twitter, someone usually does the Mp3 and then DJ wheat would retweet the link.
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On October 26 2012 11:54 Portlandian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 11:46 VanGarde wrote:
The only thing that is likely is that they REVEALED their already planned and under construction changes earlier than they had first planned in order to tone down the negative publicity. But you have to be a whole new level off both stupid and full of yourself to think that Blizzard which is a huge company with a well defined production pipeline would in just a few days, read posts on reddit, then have a lead on the team just skip the entirety of their iterative process and internal discussions and tell someone on the ui team to stop what he is doing, forego the normal procedure for adding in new functionality and quickly Photoshop a production concept of the new ui so that it could be released to the community to calm down a mob of angry retard on reddit. Not only can you not ever have worked in software you can't ever have had a job at all if you think that is a reasonable process. So we agree that it was at least a reaction from them. That's the important point. You are exaggerating how difficult it would be to slap together the announced features, but I won't argue that point until we see how long it takes them to release the patch.
No I am not agreeing I am saying that is at the very least a possible reason because they probably saw a great marketing possibility in releasing that thing now.
Ofcourse if you put a bunch of programmers on implementing a change to the ui you could grind it out in reasonably short time (depending on how complicated the framework for the ui actually is, you can't know if it was set up in such a way that it is easy to plug in new stuff). But that is actually irrelevant, it is not churning out the code that is time consuming it is the entire process. Adding even a small thing like this takes up time from both programmers, designers and artists. someone needs to make the graphics for it, just for the "mock-up" pictures it would take time, programming the whole thing obviously and the designer who has to figure out all of the sources for xp, the conversion rates, how much you get from what etc etc. A developer doesn't just decide head over heels that they are going to implement a whole new feature just like that and take up the time of people who could be working on something else. Before you even get close to having people work on this you are looking at design meetings, discussions and concepts for the feature, iteration of that design and evaluation on whether or not it will be something they want to add in. Because you don't just announce something to keep dumb people on the internet quiet without really planning it through and deciding if this is something you really want in the game. They don't want to both put work into something, and announce something that they then a week later realize won't actually fit well with their vision for the game. We are talking about more than a week just between when someone got the idea for this, and before anyone actually starts working on it.
On October 26 2012 11:54 Portlandian wrote:
It's really, really, really simple. I actually have a hard time thinking of a more easy and superficial change than adding xp values to units killed/produced.
There is no point in even getting close to discussing specifics of why that would potentially take time because you don't even know how the battlenet ui code is set up. It could be easy but by easy I am not talking about days like you are it would still take more time, but that is if the bnet ui was coded initially with the explicit intent of easily adding new functionality into it. It could also be a clusterfuck in which case a simple addition could actually take even more time.
However this is not just a matter of herp derp lets add an integer variable called xp to every unit in the game.
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On October 26 2012 12:03 KlinKz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 12:01 t0k3n98 wrote:
Could anyone tell me where I could get mp3 of Lo3 and ItG? I have been searching for an hour but can not find any link to the more current episodes. Follow DJwheat on his twitter, someone usually does the Mp3 and then DJ wheat would retweet the link.
Oh darn I don't have a twitter...
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On October 26 2012 12:01 t0k3n98 wrote:
Could anyone tell me where I could get mp3 of Lo3 and ItG? I have been searching for an hour but can not find any link to the more current episodes.
http://www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/b/336653494 VOD for ITG
http://www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/b/336765381 VOD for Lo3
I don't know where to find .mp3, I know Hashbaz posts them for ITG. If you can't find it, you can always download Realplayer and use that to convert the .flv to .mp3, I used to do it for SotG when JP was slow with the .mp3.
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On October 26 2012 12:09 corpuscle wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 12:01 t0k3n98 wrote:
Could anyone tell me where I could get mp3 of Lo3 and ItG? I have been searching for an hour but can not find any link to the more current episodes. http://www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/b/336653494 VOD for ITG http://www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/b/336765381 VOD for Lo3 I don't know where to find .mp3, I know Hashbaz posts them for ITG. If you can't find it, you can always download Realplayer and use that to convert the .flv to .mp3, I used to do it for SotG when JP was slow with the .mp3.
Alright thank you very much!
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On October 26 2012 12:03 VanGarde wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 11:54 Portlandian wrote:On October 26 2012 11:46 VanGarde wrote:
The only thing that is likely is that they REVEALED their already planned and under construction changes earlier than they had first planned in order to tone down the negative publicity. But you have to be a whole new level off both stupid and full of yourself to think that Blizzard which is a huge company with a well defined production pipeline would in just a few days, read posts on reddit, then have a lead on the team just skip the entirety of their iterative process and internal discussions and tell someone on the ui team to stop what he is doing, forego the normal procedure for adding in new functionality and quickly Photoshop a production concept of the new ui so that it could be released to the community to calm down a mob of angry retard on reddit. Not only can you not ever have worked in software you can't ever have had a job at all if you think that is a reasonable process. So we agree that it was at least a reaction from them. That's the important point. You are exaggerating how difficult it would be to slap together the announced features, but I won't argue that point until we see how long it takes them to release the patch. No I am not agreeing I am saying that is at the very least a possible reason because they probably saw a great marketing possibility in releasing that thing now. Ofcourse if you put a bunch of programmers on implementing a change to the ui you could grind it out in reasonably short time (depending on how complicated the framework for the ui actually is, you can't know if it was set up in such a way that it is easy to plug in new stuff). But that is actually irrelevant, it is not churning out the code that is time consuming it is the entire process. Adding even a small thing like this takes up time from both programmers, designers and artists. someone needs to make the graphics for it, just for the "mock-up" pictures it would take time, programming the whole thing obviously and the designer who has to figure out all of the sources for xp, the conversion rates, how much you get from what etc etc. A developer doesn't just decide head over heels that they are going to implement a whole new feature just like that and take up the time of people who could be working on something else. Before you even get close to having people work on this you are looking at design meetings, discussions and concepts for the feature, iteration of that design and evaluation on whether or not it will be something they want to add in. Because you don't just announce something to keep dumb people on the internet quiet without really planning it through and deciding if this is something you really want in the game. They don't want to both put work into something, and announce something that they then a week later realize won't actually fit well with their vision for the game. We are talking about more than a week just between when someone got the idea for this, and before anyone actually starts working on it.
You are engaging in wild exaggeration
HotS Balance Update #4 [9/28/12]
The duration of Activate Mine has been decreased to 2 sec.
Auto-cast can now be turned off in both activated and deactivated modes.
HotS Balance Update #5 [10/5/12]
- This unit has a new missile ability called Unstable Payload.
- Unstable Payload is an auto-cast ability that initiates once the Widow Mine is burrowed. It cannot be turned off unless the unit is unburrowed.
- This ability launches a missile at a target within 5 range, then starts to rearm another missile.
- Unstable Payload does 160 damage to a single target and 40 splash damage.
- The missile auto-acquires cloaked units. (Note: It will auto attack cloaked units without having detection.)
- The missile auto-acquires temporary units like Hallucinations, Infested Terrans, and Locusts.
- It takes 40 seconds to rearm the missile. The cost is free for now.
- The build time of this unit has increased to 40 seconds.
These two patches are only a week apart, but in that time from concept to patch they completely changed the widow mine from the previous iterations.
Basically you are claiming that to even release the mockup and blog post took more preparation and work than the entire widow mine changes done between these patches. That is just so absurd I don't know what to say.
Stop being silly.
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On October 26 2012 12:15 Portlandian wrote:
These two patches are only a week apart, but in that time from concept to patch they completely changed the widow mine from the previous iterations.
Basically you are claiming that to even release the mockup and blog post took more preparation and work than the entire widow mine changes done between these patches. That is just so absurd I don't know what to say.
Stop being silly.
Omg those are balance patches. Really? You claim(read lie) that you are a programmer and you can't tell the difference between balance changes during a beta and implemented whole new features? The point of the whole beta is to test out units primarily which means they can be quite flexible with implementing test changes to see if they pan out. They don't "test" features by throwing them into the beta to then retract them a week later. I've already pointed out that it does not matter how fast you could write the code to add these features, even if you could do it in a day that is not how software development works. The majority of the time it would take for that thing to go from idea to being in the game lies on the design side, not programming.
There is a design incentive to be able to quickly implement changes to unit mechanics in a beta because it is really hard to judge from the point of design what would fix a certain unit, if you know the mine is not working you might have good ideas for how to fix it but due to how complex the game is the efficient way to do it is to not waste the time of multiple designers to sit and brood over that for weeks only to still have the idea fail in tests. You just throw it in to get instant feedback. You don't need to do that for what is essentially a ui feature, there is no need to quickly throw that together and toss it into the beta so people can test out the ins and outs of looking at their xp screen in detail. Those things are essentially finalized by the time they go into the beta because designers can perfect those features without the need for external feedback. When you are close to the final product you still throw it into the beta to get additional feedback from users on subtle things.
Finally this is pure speculation but speculation based on reasonable assumptions and experience from how iterative software design is done. Blizzard definitely does internal testing of all of the units and their mechanics. They quite likely already have multiple implementations of their ideas working. I would not be surprised if they have 5 very different mines fully functional because they coded them and tested them internally and then decided to go with the one they figured would work best.
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Canada1094 Posts
On October 26 2012 12:23 VanGarde wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 12:15 Portlandian wrote:
These two patches are only a week apart, but in that time from concept to patch they completely changed the widow mine from the previous iterations.
Basically you are claiming that to even release the mockup and blog post took more preparation and work than the entire widow mine changes done between these patches. That is just so absurd I don't know what to say.
Stop being silly. Omg those are balance patches. Really? You claim(read lie) that you are a programmer and you can't tell the difference between balance changes during a beta and implemented whole new features? The point of the whole beta is to test out units primarily which means they can be quite flexible with implementing test changes to see if they pan out. They don't "test" features by throwing them into the beta to then retract them a week later. I've already pointed out that it does not matter how fast you could write the code to add these features, even if you could do it in a day that is not how software development works. The majority of the time it would take for that thing to go from idea to being in the game lies on the design side, not programming.
If you guys haven't put it together by now that he's baiting you, please smarten up.
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On October 26 2012 12:23 VanGarde wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 12:15 Portlandian wrote:
These two patches are only a week apart, but in that time from concept to patch they completely changed the widow mine from the previous iterations.
Basically you are claiming that to even release the mockup and blog post took more preparation and work than the entire widow mine changes done between these patches. That is just so absurd I don't know what to say.
Stop being silly. Omg those are balance patches. Really? You claim(read lie) that you are a programmer and you can't tell the difference between balance changes during a beta and implemented whole new features? The point of the whole beta is to test out units primarily which means they can be quite flexible with implementing test changes to see if they pan out. They don't "test" features by throwing them into the beta to then retract them a week later. I've already pointed out that it does not matter how fast you could write the code to add these features, even if you could do it in a day that is not how software development works. The majority of the time it would take for that thing to go from idea to being in the game lies on the design side, not programming. There is a design incentive to be able to quickly implement changes to unit mechanics in a beta because it is really hard to judge from the point of design what would fix a certain unit, if you know the mine is not working you might have good ideas for how to fix it but due to how complex the game is the efficient way to do it is to not waste the time of multiple designers to sit and brood over that for weeks only to still have the idea fail in tests. You just throw it in to get instant feedback. You don't need to do that for what is essentially a ui feature, there is no need to quickly throw that together and toss it into the beta so people can test out the ins and outs of looking at their xp screen in detail. Those things are essentially finalized by the time they go into the beta because designers can perfect those features without the need for external feedback. When you are close to the final product you still throw it into the beta to get additional feedback from users on subtle things.
It has a new ability and changed design for the widow mine, not a simple numbers adjustment. To borrow your words: "this is not just a matter of herp derp lets add an integer variable called [unstable payload]".
According to your timelines unstable payload would have taken "more than a week just between when someone got the idea for this, and before anyone actually starts working on it" (again, your words).
I am using a real world example, as opposed to your ridiculous exaggerated fantasy. If they can come up with a new concept for the widow mine, create a new ability, approve it, and implement it in a week, surely they can make a blog post with some photoshops in less than a week.
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Hey software is hard to make. There's no way they did it in a week. I'm not guessing. This is not a hypothesis. Anyone that thinks they come up with this in a week, is wrong. Period. Read about software from any software book/blog/thing ever. You will see the foolishness of your foolery.
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On October 26 2012 12:33 Portlandian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 12:23 VanGarde wrote:On October 26 2012 12:15 Portlandian wrote:
These two patches are only a week apart, but in that time from concept to patch they completely changed the widow mine from the previous iterations.
Basically you are claiming that to even release the mockup and blog post took more preparation and work than the entire widow mine changes done between these patches. That is just so absurd I don't know what to say.
Stop being silly. Omg those are balance patches. Really? You claim(read lie) that you are a programmer and you can't tell the difference between balance changes during a beta and implemented whole new features? The point of the whole beta is to test out units primarily which means they can be quite flexible with implementing test changes to see if they pan out. They don't "test" features by throwing them into the beta to then retract them a week later. I've already pointed out that it does not matter how fast you could write the code to add these features, even if you could do it in a day that is not how software development works. The majority of the time it would take for that thing to go from idea to being in the game lies on the design side, not programming. There is a design incentive to be able to quickly implement changes to unit mechanics in a beta because it is really hard to judge from the point of design what would fix a certain unit, if you know the mine is not working you might have good ideas for how to fix it but due to how complex the game is the efficient way to do it is to not waste the time of multiple designers to sit and brood over that for weeks only to still have the idea fail in tests. You just throw it in to get instant feedback. You don't need to do that for what is essentially a ui feature, there is no need to quickly throw that together and toss it into the beta so people can test out the ins and outs of looking at their xp screen in detail. Those things are essentially finalized by the time they go into the beta because designers can perfect those features without the need for external feedback. When you are close to the final product you still throw it into the beta to get additional feedback from users on subtle things. It has a new ability and changed design for the widow mine, not a simple numbers adjustment. To borrow your words: "this is not just a matter of herp derp lets add an integer variable called [unstable payload]". According to your timelines unstable payload would have taken "more than a week just between when someone got the idea for this, and before anyone actually starts working on it" (again, your words). I am using a real world example, as opposed to your ridiculous exaggerated fantasy. If they can come up with a new concept for the widow mine, create a new ability, approve it, and implement it in a week, surely they can make a blog post with some photoshops in less than a week.
The difference is, they might have had the plumbing already in for this said change. They went from no xp to xp. You have to understand programming to say these things my friend. It's just a lot different.
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On October 26 2012 12:34 1handsomE wrote:
Hey software is hard to make. There's no way they did it in a week. I'm not guessing. This is not a hypothesis. Anyone that thinks they come up with this in a week, is wrong. Period. Read about software from any software book/blog/thing ever. You will see the foolishness of your foolery.
You can go from concept to deployment on software in a couple hours with the right framework. What sources would I need to read that claim otherwise? I have never heard of such a thing as a couple photoshop mockups and intended features list taking weeks.
This argument is degrading into such a bizarre realm.
On the one hand we have proof blizzard can make significant changes from concept to patch in a week (widow mine). On the other hand you are claiming a blog post with a couple photoshopped images and promised features takes over a week, based on no evidence at all.
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lmfao @ portlandian. I hope for your sake that you're trolling. You completely missed VanGarde's point about the conceptual difference between a balance change and a UI feature as it bears on testing and implementation in a beta test. Instead you just said "a window mine design change is not just a number value, just as the UI change is not just a number value, therefore a UI change can be implemented on the same timeframe as a balance change." Maybe address his point on whey there's a difference in implementation timeframe between the two types of changes? You are just talking out of your ass based on what seems to make sense to you with no real-world programming experience lol.
In case anyone still had any faith in portlandian's credibility:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=353769#1
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On October 26 2012 12:33 Portlandian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 12:23 VanGarde wrote:On October 26 2012 12:15 Portlandian wrote:
These two patches are only a week apart, but in that time from concept to patch they completely changed the widow mine from the previous iterations.
Basically you are claiming that to even release the mockup and blog post took more preparation and work than the entire widow mine changes done between these patches. That is just so absurd I don't know what to say.
Stop being silly. Omg those are balance patches. Really? You claim(read lie) that you are a programmer and you can't tell the difference between balance changes during a beta and implemented whole new features? The point of the whole beta is to test out units primarily which means they can be quite flexible with implementing test changes to see if they pan out. They don't "test" features by throwing them into the beta to then retract them a week later. I've already pointed out that it does not matter how fast you could write the code to add these features, even if you could do it in a day that is not how software development works. The majority of the time it would take for that thing to go from idea to being in the game lies on the design side, not programming. There is a design incentive to be able to quickly implement changes to unit mechanics in a beta because it is really hard to judge from the point of design what would fix a certain unit, if you know the mine is not working you might have good ideas for how to fix it but due to how complex the game is the efficient way to do it is to not waste the time of multiple designers to sit and brood over that for weeks only to still have the idea fail in tests. You just throw it in to get instant feedback. You don't need to do that for what is essentially a ui feature, there is no need to quickly throw that together and toss it into the beta so people can test out the ins and outs of looking at their xp screen in detail. Those things are essentially finalized by the time they go into the beta because designers can perfect those features without the need for external feedback. When you are close to the final product you still throw it into the beta to get additional feedback from users on subtle things. It has a new ability and changed design for the widow mine, not a simple numbers adjustment. To borrow your words: "this is not just a matter of herp derp lets add an integer variable called [unstable payload]". According to your timelines unstable payload would have taken "more than a week just between when someone got the idea for this, and before anyone actually starts working on it" (again, your words). I am using a real world example, as opposed to your ridiculous exaggerated fantasy. If they can come up with a new concept for the widow mine, create a new ability, approve it, and implement it in a week, surely they can make a blog post with some photoshops in less than a week.
Since you are either intentionally dense or are having serious comprehension problems let me do this like how I would treat a 6 year old.
Let me educate you into what a game designer does. A game designer at any level is not this guy who sits and thinks of cool ideas for a game and then have the team implement them. A game designer is someone who thinks of a cool idea for a game, then has to conceptualize it with sketches and descriptions which also require him to think through every stage of it. If it would be a cool idea to have xp in the game, what would that be like? How do you earn xp, do you earn it from various sources? Where is your collected xp viewed? Are there varying rates of xp depending on what you do? What can you get from the xp you have collected? How would this affect various kinds of players? Would this concept fit in with our current vision for the game?
In a large team for an AAA+ production you now also have to iterate on the design with a team and people will have to trade ideas, compromise and agree on if this is a good idea and then adjust it based on what new ideas have come fourth. Now you can get to work, but still only the designer can get to work because now you have to go over every possible step of this, what pitfalls are there? If the xp from winning a game is x how many percentage lower must the xp for losing a game be without the incentive for winning be less? How much should the bonus be for the game of the day? Can this be abused? Can we really use this in a custom game or would people abuse it? How should all of this be implemented, should you be able to see your opponents level? Where should that be displayed, how should the xp screen be displayed, when do you view it? Once all of the possible loopholes have been solved and you have figured out how it should all be tied together, precisely which button will take you to which screen and which things give xp. THEN you can get programmers and artists involved. Now that the artists know exactly which buttons will be needed, which screens and where they can start drawing up production, the programmers can start implementing the system into the game.
This takes a long time because the designer needs to figure out EVERYTHING.
When you test units in a beta you are outsourcing most of the design process to the testers by skipping all of the finding loopholes and figuring out the correct numbers. In the case of changing a unit it is instigated by the feedback from the beta suggesting that there is a problem with a unit. In all likelihood you already have several ideas and concepts for how a unit should work on the drawing board because back when the units were designed for the first time you were brainstorming a lot of things. When it comes to changing how a unit works the first logical step is to go back to one of the choices that were not picked for the first implementation. But instead of now having a designer spend days to work out how that change would affect the game, "could a protoss defend a mine rush a this build time?" etc. Instead you throw it into the game asap to get players to test it in way more scenarios than you could test in the same amount of time. If it does not work there is no risk to it because no real time was invested in changing things up and you can change things again, it is the entire point with a beta.
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EPT
