• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:56
CEST 02:56
KST 09:56
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20259Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202577RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder0EWC 2025 - Replay Pack1Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced26BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time EWC 2025 - Replay Pack Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 I offer completely free coaching services
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 639 users

[Show] Inside The Game - Official Thread - Page 360

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 358 359 360 361 362 496 Next
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 26 2012 00:44 GMT
#7181
On October 26 2012 09:41 Portlandian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 09:33 dAPhREAk wrote:
On October 26 2012 09:28 Portlandian wrote:
On October 26 2012 09:17 dAPhREAk wrote:
On October 26 2012 09:13 Portlandian wrote:
On October 26 2012 09:06 fuzzylogic44 wrote:
Yeah they redesigned the UI in a week in response to a twitter hashtag campaign. These changes have been in the works for months because people have been complaining about the UI since day 1.

They didn't redesign the UI, they just released a couple mockups and a writeup saying their intentions.

Isn't it a bit daft to claim these changes have been in the works for months? Just a few months ago they released the 1.5 patch, which they intended to settle the UI issues. You think after releasing the patch which they intended to fix the UI, they immediately started work on another new UI?

Do you have any evidence they were working on those mockups and writeup for months?

do you have any evidence that they are in any way related to #savehots and destiny? no.

Yes. The timing makes it obvious.

they just released a patch in diablo 3 too; only a few days after i started playing again and complained on a tl.net forum that there werent enough legendary drops. i feel special! or, its coincidence. i choose to feel special though and ignore reality (i.e., development times, the fact that blizzard developers give a shit about what i say, etc. etc.).

If you can't understand the difference between a patch and a blog post, you aren't worth conversing with.


I love how you keep ignoring the fact that the community manager for SC2 told JP that those changes are coming soon. Unless he was lying to JP and everyone who is watching SotG.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Leth0
Profile Joined February 2012
856 Posts
October 26 2012 00:46 GMT
#7182
On October 26 2012 09:44 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 09:41 Portlandian wrote:
On October 26 2012 09:33 dAPhREAk wrote:
On October 26 2012 09:28 Portlandian wrote:
On October 26 2012 09:17 dAPhREAk wrote:
On October 26 2012 09:13 Portlandian wrote:
On October 26 2012 09:06 fuzzylogic44 wrote:
Yeah they redesigned the UI in a week in response to a twitter hashtag campaign. These changes have been in the works for months because people have been complaining about the UI since day 1.

They didn't redesign the UI, they just released a couple mockups and a writeup saying their intentions.

Isn't it a bit daft to claim these changes have been in the works for months? Just a few months ago they released the 1.5 patch, which they intended to settle the UI issues. You think after releasing the patch which they intended to fix the UI, they immediately started work on another new UI?

Do you have any evidence they were working on those mockups and writeup for months?

do you have any evidence that they are in any way related to #savehots and destiny? no.

Yes. The timing makes it obvious.

they just released a patch in diablo 3 too; only a few days after i started playing again and complained on a tl.net forum that there werent enough legendary drops. i feel special! or, its coincidence. i choose to feel special though and ignore reality (i.e., development times, the fact that blizzard developers give a shit about what i say, etc. etc.).

If you can't understand the difference between a patch and a blog post, you aren't worth conversing with.


I love how you keep ignoring the fact that the community manager for SC2 told JP that those changes are coming soon. Unless he was lying to JP and everyone who is watching SotG.


There is nothing more futile then trying to inform the willfully ignorant (portlandian). He will just continue to stick his hands over his ears and spout the same belligerent bullshit over and over. Nothing anyone says to him will convince him of anything other than what fantasy world he has made up for himself.
Portlandian
Profile Joined July 2012
Belgium153 Posts
October 26 2012 00:47 GMT
#7183
On October 26 2012 09:38 Leth0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 09:36 Portlandian wrote:
On October 26 2012 09:31 VanGarde wrote:
On October 26 2012 09:28 Portlandian wrote:
On October 26 2012 09:17 dAPhREAk wrote:
On October 26 2012 09:13 Portlandian wrote:
On October 26 2012 09:06 fuzzylogic44 wrote:
Yeah they redesigned the UI in a week in response to a twitter hashtag campaign. These changes have been in the works for months because people have been complaining about the UI since day 1.

They didn't redesign the UI, they just released a couple mockups and a writeup saying their intentions.

Isn't it a bit daft to claim these changes have been in the works for months? Just a few months ago they released the 1.5 patch, which they intended to settle the UI issues. You think after releasing the patch which they intended to fix the UI, they immediately started work on another new UI?

Do you have any evidence they were working on those mockups and writeup for months?

do you have any evidence that they are in any way related to #savehots and destiny? no.

Yes. The timing makes it obvious.

Just ask anyone who knows anything about game development and I can tell you there is no fucking way they did any of these changes as a result of a bunch of whining retards on reddit. Not because of how stupid it would be for them to do that just based on that, but because it is not physically possible for them to change things that fast.

They didn't make any changes.

They released a couple mockups that would take a few hours at most, and a blog post. That's it.



All facts, common sense, and reason says otherwise. Keep sticking your foot in your mouth. What you gonna say in a week or two when these "mockups" are live on beta?

Go back and read the post you are replying to. It's just a simple statement of fact, and is 100% accurate.

You keep saying they released changes, when all that they released were mockups and a blog post.
Portlandian
Profile Joined July 2012
Belgium153 Posts
October 26 2012 00:48 GMT
#7184
On October 26 2012 09:44 Plansix wrote:


I love how you keep ignoring the fact that the community manager for SC2 told JP that those changes are coming soon. Unless he was lying to JP and everyone who is watching SotG.

They were announced before Destiny's post? Where? Proof?
CiCeRoSC2
Profile Joined October 2012
United States83 Posts
October 26 2012 00:49 GMT
#7185
On October 26 2012 09:48 Portlandian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 09:44 Plansix wrote:


I love how you keep ignoring the fact that the community manager for SC2 told JP that those changes are coming soon. Unless he was lying to JP and everyone who is watching SotG.

They were announced before Destiny's post? Where? Proof?


You don't seem to need any proof that Blizzard made changes to SC2 because Destiny made a post on Reddit...
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-26 00:52:32
October 26 2012 00:50 GMT
#7186
Holy crap people, you need to look at Portlandian's post history. This man needs a tinfoil hat. Logic is not a thing that he does.

Here are some highlights:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=367070&currentpage=4#80

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=353769#1

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359661&currentpage=5#85

I feel safe is saying that he is his own special creature and cannot be reasoned with in a language currently possessed by man. We should cease our efforts, for our words are heard, but not understood. Hopefully science can reach him some day and explain how the world really works.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Cubu
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
1171 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-26 00:53:03
October 26 2012 00:52 GMT
#7187
On October 26 2012 09:28 IdrA wrote:
i am successful because people want to watch me play and talk about sc2. sc2 being a better experience, both viewing and playing, gets more people to watch me which allows me to earn more money.

i have more to lose than the community, you lose entertainment i lose my job. that doesnt mean we dont have the same interests.

do you not know who i am or something? no body, at all, has been more openly, harshly critical of blizzard since the start than i have.

you're either a troll, an idiot, or blindly defending destiny.

Actually, you are successful because of your BM, with alot of help from HD and Husky. And you have only ever been critical about how zerg is UP and the rest of the races are OP.
Portlandian
Profile Joined July 2012
Belgium153 Posts
October 26 2012 00:53 GMT
#7188
On October 26 2012 09:46 Leth0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 09:44 Plansix wrote:
On October 26 2012 09:41 Portlandian wrote:
On October 26 2012 09:33 dAPhREAk wrote:
On October 26 2012 09:28 Portlandian wrote:
On October 26 2012 09:17 dAPhREAk wrote:
On October 26 2012 09:13 Portlandian wrote:
On October 26 2012 09:06 fuzzylogic44 wrote:
Yeah they redesigned the UI in a week in response to a twitter hashtag campaign. These changes have been in the works for months because people have been complaining about the UI since day 1.

They didn't redesign the UI, they just released a couple mockups and a writeup saying their intentions.

Isn't it a bit daft to claim these changes have been in the works for months? Just a few months ago they released the 1.5 patch, which they intended to settle the UI issues. You think after releasing the patch which they intended to fix the UI, they immediately started work on another new UI?

Do you have any evidence they were working on those mockups and writeup for months?

do you have any evidence that they are in any way related to #savehots and destiny? no.

Yes. The timing makes it obvious.

they just released a patch in diablo 3 too; only a few days after i started playing again and complained on a tl.net forum that there werent enough legendary drops. i feel special! or, its coincidence. i choose to feel special though and ignore reality (i.e., development times, the fact that blizzard developers give a shit about what i say, etc. etc.).

If you can't understand the difference between a patch and a blog post, you aren't worth conversing with.


I love how you keep ignoring the fact that the community manager for SC2 told JP that those changes are coming soon. Unless he was lying to JP and everyone who is watching SotG.


There is nothing more futile then trying to inform the willfully ignorant (portlandian). He will just continue to stick his hands over his ears and spout the same belligerent bullshit over and over. Nothing anyone says to him will convince him of anything other than what fantasy world he has made up for himself.

What is it you feel the need to inform me of?

Even if Blizzard had UI changes in the works prior to the negative publicity, they obviously only released their mockups as a direct reaction to it. So negative publicity does work, it does get Blizzard's attention, and it does get them to take action, even though those actions are lackluster.

By contrast continuing to promote their products for them even when they aren't very good will just encourage them to continue releasing crappy products.
Leth0
Profile Joined February 2012
856 Posts
October 26 2012 00:55 GMT
#7189
On October 26 2012 09:50 Plansix wrote:
Holy crap people, you need to look at Portlandian's post history. This man needs a tinfoil hat. Logic is not a thing that he does.

Here are some highlights:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=367070&currentpage=4#80

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=353769#1

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359661&currentpage=5#85

I feel safe is saying that he is his own special creature and cannot be reasoned with in a language currently possessed by man. We should cease our efforts, for our words are heard, but not understood. Hopefully science can reach him some day and explain how the world really works.


Words can't even begin to describe the absurdity. Guys a class A basket case.
Actraiser
Profile Joined November 2011
United States47 Posts
October 26 2012 00:55 GMT
#7190
U.S East is only friendlier to "casuals" because people just pirate the game and fuck around. It's a hack fest. It has been forever. It's incredibly difficult to find a legit game, of any type, and it's not even map hacking that's the problem -- a lot of people just drop hack for the fuck of it, or mess up games to piss people off. That's the kind of audience you have on East. Destiny and Painuser romanticized it into this causal paradise, but in truth, it's mostly just a shit hole. It was funny hearing them talk about it, though.

Testie & Mondragon forever <3
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 26 2012 00:58 GMT
#7191
On October 26 2012 09:55 Actraiser wrote:
U.S East is only friendlier to "casuals" because people just pirate the game and fuck around. It's a hack fest. It has been forever. It's incredibly difficult to find a legit game, of any type, and it's not even map hacking that's the problem -- a lot of people just drop hack for the fuck of it, or mess up games to piss people off. That's the kind of audience you have on East. Destiny and Painuser romanticized it into this causal paradise, but in truth, it's mostly just a shit hole. It was funny hearing them talk about it, though.



Drop hacking was the worst and is so common in every per to per game. I know people hate being connected to battle.net, but the fact that it almost removes drop hacking makes it worth it. There is almost no way to solve it without some sort of third party connection.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Portlandian
Profile Joined July 2012
Belgium153 Posts
October 26 2012 00:58 GMT
#7192
Yeah it's so insane to acknowledge that adults have financial interests in life. Especially when talking about their job.

What was I thinking. I forgot the world runs on passion and childlike naivete.
Golbat
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States499 Posts
October 26 2012 01:01 GMT
#7193
On October 26 2012 09:58 Portlandian wrote:
Yeah it's so insane to acknowledge that adults have financial interests in life. Especially when talking about their job.

What was I thinking. I forgot the world runs on passion and childlike naivete.


What I don't understand is why did you even bring it up/spend so much time talking about it.
Like why do u use an oven instead of a fire? Coz its fucking better at cooking, that doesnt mean you want the shit to burn.
Leth0
Profile Joined February 2012
856 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-26 01:03:23
October 26 2012 01:02 GMT
#7194
On October 26 2012 09:58 Portlandian wrote:
Yeah it's so insane to acknowledge that adults have financial interests in life. Especially when talking about their job.

What was I thinking. I forgot the world runs on passion and childlike naivete.


Your problem is you are taking it to the extreme of "OH THIS MUST BE ALL YOU CARE ABOUT" and you are just making yourself look fucking stupid by doing that.

They've been in the scene longer then they have been making money by being in the scene. Get over it and quit being such a drama queen.
Portlandian
Profile Joined July 2012
Belgium153 Posts
October 26 2012 01:08 GMT
#7195
On October 26 2012 10:01 Golbat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 09:58 Portlandian wrote:
Yeah it's so insane to acknowledge that adults have financial interests in life. Especially when talking about their job.

What was I thinking. I forgot the world runs on passion and childlike naivete.


What I don't understand is why did you even bring it up/spend so much time talking about it.

I was bothered by the immense amounts of posts being made that seem to miss the point.

There's nothing to even argue here if you are mature enough to understand there are simply two different viewpoints here that can never be reconciled.

There is the gravy train viewpoint (Blizzard, EG, et al) that doesn't want any negative publicity because it could threaten their profits. Then there's the entertainment viewpoint--people who want the game to be made more entertaining--and because threatening Blizzard's profitability is the only way to get those changes made they have no hesitation to try it.

The two sides will never come to agreement. They are completely opposed to each other. There's no point arguing about what is the best for "SC2" in general, because it's actually a matter of what is best for the customers versus what is best for Blizzard and people inside the Blizzard moneymaking sphere.

Destiny should get some credit for sticking up for the customers, but of course his attitude is probably in part motivated by him being unwelcome on the gravy train.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
October 26 2012 01:11 GMT
#7196
lol. are you really a birther?
Portlandian
Profile Joined July 2012
Belgium153 Posts
October 26 2012 01:15 GMT
#7197
On October 26 2012 10:02 Leth0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 09:58 Portlandian wrote:
Yeah it's so insane to acknowledge that adults have financial interests in life. Especially when talking about their job.

What was I thinking. I forgot the world runs on passion and childlike naivete.


Your problem is you are taking it to the extreme of "OH THIS MUST BE ALL YOU CARE ABOUT" and you are just making yourself look fucking stupid by doing that.

They've been in the scene longer then they have been making money by being in the scene. Get over it and quit being such a drama queen.

Microsoft was making Xboxes long before the Xbox division ever turned a profit. Do you think Microsoft makes consoles for fun? Anyways, you are referring to BW which everyone agrees was actually good and entertaining in its own right.

I am sure money isn't all they care about. I never said it was. It just so happens to trump any desire they have to make SC2 a good game if it comes at the expense of harming profits to force those changes.

Hell idra doesn't even like SC2. Why would he want to risk his profitability to force changes that might not even fix it? I would feel the same way in his shoes.

It is overwhelmingly in their best interests to keep things chugging along quietly until the time comes to move their business to the next big thing.
labbe
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1456 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-26 01:21:35
October 26 2012 01:15 GMT
#7198
On October 26 2012 09:50 Plansix wrote:
Holy crap people, you need to look at Portlandian's post history. This man needs a tinfoil hat. Logic is not a thing that he does.

Here are some highlights:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=367070&currentpage=4#80

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=353769#1

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359661&currentpage=5#85

I feel safe is saying that he is his own special creature and cannot be reasoned with in a language currently possessed by man. We should cease our efforts, for our words are heard, but not understood. Hopefully science can reach him some day and explain how the world really works.

It's official people; we have a wacko in our midst.
Portlandian
Profile Joined July 2012
Belgium153 Posts
October 26 2012 01:16 GMT
#7199
On October 26 2012 10:11 dAPhREAk wrote:
lol. are you really a birther?

Are you really trying to derail the conversation now that you made a fool of yourself and have no leg to stand on?
Golbat
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States499 Posts
October 26 2012 01:21 GMT
#7200
On October 26 2012 10:16 Portlandian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 10:11 dAPhREAk wrote:
lol. are you really a birther?

Are you really trying to derail the conversation now that you made a fool of yourself and have no leg to stand on?


Yup. He's the one that looks like a fool. Whatever you say neversummer.
Like why do u use an oven instead of a fire? Coz its fucking better at cooking, that doesnt mean you want the shit to burn.
Prev 1 358 359 360 361 362 496 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 10h 5m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 233
Ketroc 57
StarCraft: Brood War
NaDa 59
MaD[AoV]54
Dota 2
monkeys_forever672
League of Legends
JimRising 658
febbydoto20
Counter-Strike
Fnx 2366
fl0m2199
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King1696
hungrybox1249
AZ_Axe436
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor215
Other Games
tarik_tv20820
summit1g15565
gofns9740
ROOTCatZ226
Maynarde198
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2258
BasetradeTV6
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta108
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki32
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Stormgate
• mYiSmile10
League of Legends
• Doublelift7840
Other Games
• Scarra2190
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
10h 5m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 9h
WardiTV European League
1d 15h
Online Event
1d 16h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
FEL Cracow 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.