|
On October 26 2012 08:39 Portlandian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 08:37 dAPhREAk wrote:On October 26 2012 08:32 Portlandian wrote:On October 26 2012 08:27 dAPhREAk wrote:On October 26 2012 08:23 Portlandian wrote:On October 26 2012 06:26 IdrA wrote:On October 26 2012 05:31 bokeevboke wrote:On October 26 2012 05:02 CiCeRoSC2 wrote:On October 26 2012 04:51 bokeevboke wrote:
My take on this:
IdrA and Incontrol like things the way they are. I assume they got decent paycheks, therefore they don't want anything to 'change'. I mean they don't wanna whole community going nuts and disbalance the scene, which might end their perfect progamer life in EG-house. I don't blame them, maybe they are a bit selfish. But any of us would do the same.
The problem is that if you look outside EG house you see pretty dim picture of sc world. Teams are disbanding, players not getting paid to go tournament and casuals leaving sc2.
I think djWheat truly believes that starcraft needs to be hardcore. His best example is American Idol (LoL) vs Breaking bad (SC2). Which is kinda fair point. But it has a flaw in it.
Those are TV shows, anybody has easy access to them, and people who are likely to like Breaking bad may randomly stumble upon it and start watching.
But how a random guy (who presumably gonna like watching starcraft) get into watching starcraft? SC2 is not broadcasted on TV, game is not easily accessible, even if he gets a chance to play it, it will be very difficult and kinda not fun.
Most of current SC community are from bw era. But they are not forever. They'll get old and have families, then just move on.
I think Destiny has fair point. We need to attract casual gamers in order sustain viewership. Its the only way to get people into watching competitive SC2. This is completely inaccurate. You could not possibly be more wrong about IdrA and Incontrol not wanting "change". If you've listened to anything that IdrA or iNcontroL have said for years, you would know that they aren't happy with Blizzard. IdrA goes on and on about how the game is trash. They are not ok with the status quo, but after over two years of complaining, they've given up on trying to get Blizzard to change the game, and would rather focus their energy on things they can do, like run tournaments, create youtube videos, and attract sponsors. They go on and on about how teams and tournaments can do more to improve Pro SC2. The American Idol v. Breaking Bad comparison was in reference to advertising. He was simply trying to show that shows with lower viewership can still be successful. You don't need to have a huge broad audience in order to be a good quality program that can sustain itself. Just because you aren't #1 doesn't mean that you can't be successful. Most of the current SC2 community did not come from the people who watched pro BW. I don't think you realize how tiny the non-korean BW scene was. Destiny isn't wrong that bringing more casual gamers into SC2 would help the scene. Absolutely nobody is arguing with that. He's just wrong that the scene will fall apart unless Blizzard goes full on Riot in its catering to them. I might be wrong on many stuff but in the end, I think Destiny did a right thing shaking up sc community. Blizzard got too lazy/passive. Mass ranting, complaining, whining definitely make them do something. Otherwise they would be content with things they are. Its simple customer relationship. When people get bitching about product stakeholders gonna get worried and company CEO starts to act. IdrA/Incontrol are like "blizzard didn't do anything for 2 years and they are not gonna do it anyway, why do you make the community go crazy". Which I think is clear indication them being afraid of things getting heated up. at 1:22:22 djWheat is screaming that stream numbers are skyrocketing which is quite a big LIE. Streams are in downfall. Pro player's viewer count and day9 viewer count has fallen down drastically. EDIT. that was my big lie, djwheat meant all games. its not fear of things getting heated up, its fear of negativity. and that sounds funny coming from me, but im negative about the quality of the game, not the state of esports or sc2 as an esport. ive said frequently that while im not happy with the game itself i very much enjoy the rest of everything. if the community as a whole is led to believe that sc2 is failing and start spamming reddit and twitter and tl with threads about how we're doomed and sponsors see that, you think theyre going to want to invest in the community? it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. blizzards always been shit. it doesnt matter what they do. sc2 is and will be the headline rts, tournaments have embraced it, it has a strong community behind it. if we keep doing what we've been doing (which isnt complacency, things have constantly been improving in every way) things will keep being good. sometimes viewership will be up, sometimes it will be down. it does not matter. but getting everyone all pissed off and depressed is probably the worst thing that can happen. To put it simply, you are concerned about your income. Your primary interest in SC2 is financial. You don't even like the game and have accepted it will never be good, but want to continue making money from a bad game. Because you look at it from a financial perspective, people rocking the boat upsets you because they threaten the continued flow of money into yours (and Blizzard's) pockets. However Destiny is looking it at the perspective of the community as a whole. Why should any Starcraft fan care how much money EG and Blizzard are making? Our interest in the game is entertainment. If the game is not entertaining to play or watch why should anyone care if it dies, other than people who have financial interest in it (you, iNcontrol, Blizzard, etc). An average TL poster is not riding the Blizzard gravy train with you. In fact, the community is funding it! Threatening Blizzard's profits by publicly protesting their greedy and careless attitude towards SC2, and encouraging people to not buy HOTS if it isn't improved, is the only way to get them to care. They only understand money. In fact, the loud public complaints got Blizzard to take immediate action and release some mockups they probably frantically drew up when they realized they had to do something. So it is very effective. Far more effective than your "just shut up and keep spending money on Blizzard and related products" attitude, which is motivated only by your personal greed. Ironically it is the extreme effectiveness of publicly complaining and giving bad buzz to a product that has you so upset, despite the fact you keep claiming you oppose it due to ineffectiveness. destiny is certainly not interested in the blizzard gravy train...../s/ what a joke post. He has clearly shown he has no reluctance to try and derail it to get Blizzard's attention. That is what got the EG fatcats feather's ruffled in the first place. blizzard doesnt give him money, so pissing off blizzard does not harm him nor does it derail his gravy. he gets "paid" based on his PR (since he cant win anything). i find it hard to believe that this whole thing was some magnanimous gesture to get the community talking. he just wants attention, which increases his gravy. i thought he switched to LoL anyways....wtf is he doing back.... So why did you respond to my post? Nothing you said contradicts me.
You think Idra and Geoff spent all the time with a game like BW because of all the money they were making?! (newsflash they weren't making SHIT). What kinda idiot comes into the thread and accuses people like that of this kinda shit?
People like you don't even deserve a response because of how willfully ignorant you are. Not that this will make it through your skull. You will continue to believe whatever nonsense you have come to believe.
|
On October 26 2012 07:54 fuzzylogic44 wrote:
I just rewatched it to make sure I was remembering things correctly, and I was.
Destiny came on from the start berating them for disagreeing with what he was saying when they didn't.
Idra and incontrol calmly explained that he was right but his approach is wrong because it acheives nothing but hurting the community whatsoever.
Painuser continually chimes in diverting the conversation back to how Destiny made valid points and that we should all agree to that when everyone ALWAYS agreed with that and it's totally beside the point.
After half an hour of Destiny repeating the same shit and missing the point, Idra tells him that if he has no faith in the game and no faith that anyone but Blizzard can fix it, he should just go over to LoL since they don't have the same problem.
Destiny then insults Idra and incontrol and hangs up before they can respond.
Wheat justifiably rages in classic DJ wheat style which he has done dozens of times and is nothing new, in response to Destiny's silly behaviour.
The conversation then gets back to the point, after Painuser one last time insists that we should agree with the stuff they have all said they agree with a million times.
Then Reddit turns on dj wheat of all people, one of the most important people in e-sports, for doing what he always does in the face of an ill-behaved caller. The only difference here is the caller was Destiny who has a cultish following who want to destroy anyone who displeases him.
Exactly how i viewed the episode and the outlash afterwards. Just really intresting to see how much of a followment destiny has and how many people just go with the "popular" thing. Thats a really bad thing of the reddit "culture", the top voted opinion becomes the truth. Luckily thats not the reality, otherwise the earth still would be flat 
|
On October 26 2012 08:39 Portlandian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 08:37 dAPhREAk wrote:On October 26 2012 08:32 Portlandian wrote:On October 26 2012 08:27 dAPhREAk wrote:On October 26 2012 08:23 Portlandian wrote:On October 26 2012 06:26 IdrA wrote:On October 26 2012 05:31 bokeevboke wrote:On October 26 2012 05:02 CiCeRoSC2 wrote:On October 26 2012 04:51 bokeevboke wrote:
My take on this:
IdrA and Incontrol like things the way they are. I assume they got decent paycheks, therefore they don't want anything to 'change'. I mean they don't wanna whole community going nuts and disbalance the scene, which might end their perfect progamer life in EG-house. I don't blame them, maybe they are a bit selfish. But any of us would do the same.
The problem is that if you look outside EG house you see pretty dim picture of sc world. Teams are disbanding, players not getting paid to go tournament and casuals leaving sc2.
I think djWheat truly believes that starcraft needs to be hardcore. His best example is American Idol (LoL) vs Breaking bad (SC2). Which is kinda fair point. But it has a flaw in it.
Those are TV shows, anybody has easy access to them, and people who are likely to like Breaking bad may randomly stumble upon it and start watching.
But how a random guy (who presumably gonna like watching starcraft) get into watching starcraft? SC2 is not broadcasted on TV, game is not easily accessible, even if he gets a chance to play it, it will be very difficult and kinda not fun.
Most of current SC community are from bw era. But they are not forever. They'll get old and have families, then just move on.
I think Destiny has fair point. We need to attract casual gamers in order sustain viewership. Its the only way to get people into watching competitive SC2. This is completely inaccurate. You could not possibly be more wrong about IdrA and Incontrol not wanting "change". If you've listened to anything that IdrA or iNcontroL have said for years, you would know that they aren't happy with Blizzard. IdrA goes on and on about how the game is trash. They are not ok with the status quo, but after over two years of complaining, they've given up on trying to get Blizzard to change the game, and would rather focus their energy on things they can do, like run tournaments, create youtube videos, and attract sponsors. They go on and on about how teams and tournaments can do more to improve Pro SC2. The American Idol v. Breaking Bad comparison was in reference to advertising. He was simply trying to show that shows with lower viewership can still be successful. You don't need to have a huge broad audience in order to be a good quality program that can sustain itself. Just because you aren't #1 doesn't mean that you can't be successful. Most of the current SC2 community did not come from the people who watched pro BW. I don't think you realize how tiny the non-korean BW scene was. Destiny isn't wrong that bringing more casual gamers into SC2 would help the scene. Absolutely nobody is arguing with that. He's just wrong that the scene will fall apart unless Blizzard goes full on Riot in its catering to them. I might be wrong on many stuff but in the end, I think Destiny did a right thing shaking up sc community. Blizzard got too lazy/passive. Mass ranting, complaining, whining definitely make them do something. Otherwise they would be content with things they are. Its simple customer relationship. When people get bitching about product stakeholders gonna get worried and company CEO starts to act. IdrA/Incontrol are like "blizzard didn't do anything for 2 years and they are not gonna do it anyway, why do you make the community go crazy". Which I think is clear indication them being afraid of things getting heated up. at 1:22:22 djWheat is screaming that stream numbers are skyrocketing which is quite a big LIE. Streams are in downfall. Pro player's viewer count and day9 viewer count has fallen down drastically. EDIT. that was my big lie, djwheat meant all games. its not fear of things getting heated up, its fear of negativity. and that sounds funny coming from me, but im negative about the quality of the game, not the state of esports or sc2 as an esport. ive said frequently that while im not happy with the game itself i very much enjoy the rest of everything. if the community as a whole is led to believe that sc2 is failing and start spamming reddit and twitter and tl with threads about how we're doomed and sponsors see that, you think theyre going to want to invest in the community? it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. blizzards always been shit. it doesnt matter what they do. sc2 is and will be the headline rts, tournaments have embraced it, it has a strong community behind it. if we keep doing what we've been doing (which isnt complacency, things have constantly been improving in every way) things will keep being good. sometimes viewership will be up, sometimes it will be down. it does not matter. but getting everyone all pissed off and depressed is probably the worst thing that can happen. To put it simply, you are concerned about your income. Your primary interest in SC2 is financial. You don't even like the game and have accepted it will never be good, but want to continue making money from a bad game. Because you look at it from a financial perspective, people rocking the boat upsets you because they threaten the continued flow of money into yours (and Blizzard's) pockets. However Destiny is looking it at the perspective of the community as a whole. Why should any Starcraft fan care how much money EG and Blizzard are making? Our interest in the game is entertainment. If the game is not entertaining to play or watch why should anyone care if it dies, other than people who have financial interest in it (you, iNcontrol, Blizzard, etc). An average TL poster is not riding the Blizzard gravy train with you. In fact, the community is funding it! Threatening Blizzard's profits by publicly protesting their greedy and careless attitude towards SC2, and encouraging people to not buy HOTS if it isn't improved, is the only way to get them to care. They only understand money. In fact, the loud public complaints got Blizzard to take immediate action and release some mockups they probably frantically drew up when they realized they had to do something. So it is very effective. Far more effective than your "just shut up and keep spending money on Blizzard and related products" attitude, which is motivated only by your personal greed. Ironically it is the extreme effectiveness of publicly complaining and giving bad buzz to a product that has you so upset, despite the fact you keep claiming you oppose it due to ineffectiveness. destiny is certainly not interested in the blizzard gravy train...../s/ what a joke post. He has clearly shown he has no reluctance to try and derail it to get Blizzard's attention. That is what got the EG fatcats feather's ruffled in the first place. blizzard doesnt give him money, so pissing off blizzard does not harm him nor does it derail his gravy. he gets "paid" based on his PR (since he cant win anything). i find it hard to believe that this whole thing was some magnanimous gesture to get the community talking. he just wants attention, which increases his gravy. i thought he switched to LoL anyways....wtf is he doing back.... So why did you respond to my post? Nothing you said contradicts me.
because you made a snotty post about idra and incontrol making money off the game, and tried to discredit them while at the same time putting destiny on a pedestal like he is trying to improve the community. its a joke. i have yet to see destiny contribute anything to the community.
|
On October 26 2012 08:23 Portlandian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 06:26 IdrA wrote:On October 26 2012 05:31 bokeevboke wrote:On October 26 2012 05:02 CiCeRoSC2 wrote:On October 26 2012 04:51 bokeevboke wrote:
My take on this:
IdrA and Incontrol like things the way they are. I assume they got decent paycheks, therefore they don't want anything to 'change'. I mean they don't wanna whole community going nuts and disbalance the scene, which might end their perfect progamer life in EG-house. I don't blame them, maybe they are a bit selfish. But any of us would do the same.
The problem is that if you look outside EG house you see pretty dim picture of sc world. Teams are disbanding, players not getting paid to go tournament and casuals leaving sc2.
I think djWheat truly believes that starcraft needs to be hardcore. His best example is American Idol (LoL) vs Breaking bad (SC2). Which is kinda fair point. But it has a flaw in it.
Those are TV shows, anybody has easy access to them, and people who are likely to like Breaking bad may randomly stumble upon it and start watching.
But how a random guy (who presumably gonna like watching starcraft) get into watching starcraft? SC2 is not broadcasted on TV, game is not easily accessible, even if he gets a chance to play it, it will be very difficult and kinda not fun.
Most of current SC community are from bw era. But they are not forever. They'll get old and have families, then just move on.
I think Destiny has fair point. We need to attract casual gamers in order sustain viewership. Its the only way to get people into watching competitive SC2. This is completely inaccurate. You could not possibly be more wrong about IdrA and Incontrol not wanting "change". If you've listened to anything that IdrA or iNcontroL have said for years, you would know that they aren't happy with Blizzard. IdrA goes on and on about how the game is trash. They are not ok with the status quo, but after over two years of complaining, they've given up on trying to get Blizzard to change the game, and would rather focus their energy on things they can do, like run tournaments, create youtube videos, and attract sponsors. They go on and on about how teams and tournaments can do more to improve Pro SC2. The American Idol v. Breaking Bad comparison was in reference to advertising. He was simply trying to show that shows with lower viewership can still be successful. You don't need to have a huge broad audience in order to be a good quality program that can sustain itself. Just because you aren't #1 doesn't mean that you can't be successful. Most of the current SC2 community did not come from the people who watched pro BW. I don't think you realize how tiny the non-korean BW scene was. Destiny isn't wrong that bringing more casual gamers into SC2 would help the scene. Absolutely nobody is arguing with that. He's just wrong that the scene will fall apart unless Blizzard goes full on Riot in its catering to them. I might be wrong on many stuff but in the end, I think Destiny did a right thing shaking up sc community. Blizzard got too lazy/passive. Mass ranting, complaining, whining definitely make them do something. Otherwise they would be content with things they are. Its simple customer relationship. When people get bitching about product stakeholders gonna get worried and company CEO starts to act. IdrA/Incontrol are like "blizzard didn't do anything for 2 years and they are not gonna do it anyway, why do you make the community go crazy". Which I think is clear indication them being afraid of things getting heated up. at 1:22:22 djWheat is screaming that stream numbers are skyrocketing which is quite a big LIE. Streams are in downfall. Pro player's viewer count and day9 viewer count has fallen down drastically. EDIT. that was my big lie, djwheat meant all games. its not fear of things getting heated up, its fear of negativity. and that sounds funny coming from me, but im negative about the quality of the game, not the state of esports or sc2 as an esport. ive said frequently that while im not happy with the game itself i very much enjoy the rest of everything. if the community as a whole is led to believe that sc2 is failing and start spamming reddit and twitter and tl with threads about how we're doomed and sponsors see that, you think theyre going to want to invest in the community? it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. blizzards always been shit. it doesnt matter what they do. sc2 is and will be the headline rts, tournaments have embraced it, it has a strong community behind it. if we keep doing what we've been doing (which isnt complacency, things have constantly been improving in every way) things will keep being good. sometimes viewership will be up, sometimes it will be down. it does not matter. but getting everyone all pissed off and depressed is probably the worst thing that can happen. In fact, the loud public complaints got Blizzard to take immediate action and release some mockups they probably frantically drew up when they realized they had to do something. So it is very effective. Far more effective than your "just shut up and keep spending money on Blizzard and related products" attitude, which is motivated only by your personal greed. Ironically it is the extreme effectiveness of publicly complaining and giving bad buzz to a product that has you so upset, despite the fact you keep claiming you oppose it due to ineffectiveness.
They actually made fun of this exact position on SotG today. JP basically said that no, Blizzard has probably been working on this for a while. Destiny didn't save HotS.
It took a week of massive complaints that made this look like nothing just to convince Blizzard not to use realID on the Blizzard forums. It took two years of complaining just to get them to make some small changes to custom games, which still haven't solved the underlying problems. Do you really think that a week of people talking about Destiny changed their minds about the whole UI and Clan support?
|
iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
it gets weird reading some guy say "you think" and stuff.. holy fuck. Using "strawman" doesn't make you smart.. speaking like you know my personal motivations is pretty good evidence we got a tinfoil hat neckbeard on our hands.
|
On October 26 2012 08:37 CiCeRoSC2 wrote:
Chairman Destiny basically just wants to sit back and complain about the exact same stuff that incontrol and idra have been complaining about for over 2 years. The difference between the EG guys and Destiny is that the EG guys are willing to do something other than whine.
Like what? Attacking people who try to get Blizzard to make changes by giving them negative publicity?
That doesn't help the game. That doesn't help the community. That only helps Blizzard and people whose profits are tied to Blizzards products.
You say it like the "EG guys" are complacent, or are even trying to start their own separate campaign for change. The reality is they attacked people who tried (and succeeded) in getting Blizzards attention for no reason other than they sensed a threat to their income. This isn't a matter of indifference. They got their hackles raised because they felt a threat to their livelihood.
On October 26 2012 08:37 CiCeRoSC2 wrote:
If you think whining to Blizzard is the best way to improve the scene, then go ahead. However, the idea that ONLY Blizzard can save Pro SC2 is ridiculous and unsupported by history or facts. I am personally incredibly thankful for people like Geoff that produce actual content.
Nobody can change the game other than Blizzard.
I don't care how long SC2 lasts if they aren't going to improve it. The only way to get them to change it is to show them they have financial interest in doing so--i.e., give them negative publicity.
|
On October 26 2012 08:41 IdrA wrote:
rofl
you think blizzard gives a shit about destiny or the root idiots?
Yes. They released mockups of a new UI, clearly as a direct reaction to the complaints. Recently they have released information about some lame XP system, again probably motivated by the complaints.
Generating negative publicity works. It has been shown to work. The trick is keeping the negative publicity snowballing until they make serious changes instead of just releasing UI mockups to try and placate people.
Of course, you don't want it to snowball as you have financial interests to think of. That is why you are attacking the people responsible for the negative publicity. I understand completely and don't blame you for it at all.
|
On October 26 2012 08:55 Portlandian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 08:41 IdrA wrote:
rofl
you think blizzard gives a shit about destiny or the root idiots? Yes. They released mockups of a new UI, clearly as a direct reaction to the complaints. Recently they have released information about some lame XP system, again probably motivated by the complaints. Generating negative publicity works. It has been shown to work. The trick is keeping the negative publicity snowballing until they make serious changes instead of just releasing UI mockups to try and placate people. Of course, you don't want it to snowball as you have financial interests to think of. That is why you are attacking the people responsible for the negative publicity. I understand completely and don't blame you for it at all.
You have got to me one naive little kid if you think they made all that shit in a week. These sorts of things have been in development much longer then when destiny decided to cry about everything being dead a week ago.
It's pathetic how you think EG is 'doing nothing" while running multiple tournaments , has sponsors and fans interacting, putting their players out there whether its casting , streaming, tournaments.
But Destiny is somehow changing the world because he wrote the worlds longest , hardest to read with a straight face, crying the sky is falling, BS and posted it on reddit?
Get a clue man.
|
On October 26 2012 08:30 Portlandian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 08:16 EtohEtoh wrote:On October 26 2012 07:20 5ukkub wrote:On October 26 2012 06:26 IdrA wrote:On October 26 2012 05:31 bokeevboke wrote:On October 26 2012 05:02 CiCeRoSC2 wrote:On October 26 2012 04:51 bokeevboke wrote:
My take on this:
IdrA and Incontrol like things the way they are. I assume they got decent paycheks, therefore they don't want anything to 'change'. I mean they don't wanna whole community going nuts and disbalance the scene, which might end their perfect progamer life in EG-house. I don't blame them, maybe they are a bit selfish. But any of us would do the same.
The problem is that if you look outside EG house you see pretty dim picture of sc world. Teams are disbanding, players not getting paid to go tournament and casuals leaving sc2.
I think djWheat truly believes that starcraft needs to be hardcore. His best example is American Idol (LoL) vs Breaking bad (SC2). Which is kinda fair point. But it has a flaw in it.
Those are TV shows, anybody has easy access to them, and people who are likely to like Breaking bad may randomly stumble upon it and start watching.
But how a random guy (who presumably gonna like watching starcraft) get into watching starcraft? SC2 is not broadcasted on TV, game is not easily accessible, even if he gets a chance to play it, it will be very difficult and kinda not fun.
Most of current SC community are from bw era. But they are not forever. They'll get old and have families, then just move on.
I think Destiny has fair point. We need to attract casual gamers in order sustain viewership. Its the only way to get people into watching competitive SC2. This is completely inaccurate. You could not possibly be more wrong about IdrA and Incontrol not wanting "change". If you've listened to anything that IdrA or iNcontroL have said for years, you would know that they aren't happy with Blizzard. IdrA goes on and on about how the game is trash. They are not ok with the status quo, but after over two years of complaining, they've given up on trying to get Blizzard to change the game, and would rather focus their energy on things they can do, like run tournaments, create youtube videos, and attract sponsors. They go on and on about how teams and tournaments can do more to improve Pro SC2. The American Idol v. Breaking Bad comparison was in reference to advertising. He was simply trying to show that shows with lower viewership can still be successful. You don't need to have a huge broad audience in order to be a good quality program that can sustain itself. Just because you aren't #1 doesn't mean that you can't be successful. Most of the current SC2 community did not come from the people who watched pro BW. I don't think you realize how tiny the non-korean BW scene was. Destiny isn't wrong that bringing more casual gamers into SC2 would help the scene. Absolutely nobody is arguing with that. He's just wrong that the scene will fall apart unless Blizzard goes full on Riot in its catering to them. I might be wrong on many stuff but in the end, I think Destiny did a right thing shaking up sc community. Blizzard got too lazy/passive. Mass ranting, complaining, whining definitely make them do something. Otherwise they would be content with things they are. Its simple customer relationship. When people get bitching about product stakeholders gonna get worried and company CEO starts to act. IdrA/Incontrol are like "blizzard didn't do anything for 2 years and they are not gonna do it anyway, why do you make the community go crazy". Which I think is clear indication them being afraid of things getting heated up. at 1:22:22 djWheat is screaming that stream numbers are skyrocketing which is quite a big LIE. Streams are in downfall. Pro player's viewer count and day9 viewer count has fallen down drastically. EDIT. that was my big lie, djwheat meant all games. its not fear of things getting heated up, its fear of negativity. and that sounds funny coming from me, but im negative about the quality of the game, not the state of esports or sc2 as an esport. ive said frequently that while im not happy with the game itself i very much enjoy the rest of everything. if the community as a whole is led to believe that sc2 is failing and start spamming reddit and twitter and tl with threads about how we're doomed and sponsors see that, you think theyre going to want to invest in the community? it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. blizzards always been shit. it doesnt matter what they do. sc2 is and will be the headline rts, tournaments have embraced it, it has a strong community behind it. if we keep doing what we've been doing (which isnt complacency, things have constantly been improving in every way) things will keep being good. sometimes viewership will be up, sometimes it will be down. it does not matter. but getting everyone all pissed off and depressed is probably the worst thing that can happen. Ok i get it. So we should just basically settle down and accept it all. Accept that SC2 won't be able to achieve LoL's popularity and Blizzard is just bad and won't do anything. Because it's very hard for me you know? It's hard for me to accept that:/ I love SC2 and i would like it to be THE esport. I think many of us feel that way, and this frustration finally had to explode somehow, with some ignition provided by Destiny. 1 question though... how did you manage to accept that beforehand? it's been over 2 years since the release of WoL, and the things that people have been asking of blizzard have not been delivered, see, the community did complain years ago, and they never delivered. Why are you and many others complaining about it now? Is it because Destiny made a post, and also added a bit of sc2-death drama to it? The flaws Destiny pointed out should be fucking obvious, they aren't new, it's been like that since release. You should've accepted Blizzard's incompetence years ago. at least Idra and others have already realized this, and yes, even Idra is saying that it's best to work with what we have. We as a community CAN attract people to SC2 without the aid of Blizzard, but the QQing sure isn't helping They are complaining now because HOTS beta has been released. Blizzard will make changes to the game if they think they are necessary to reach their desired sales of HOTS. Complaining in the past was useless because Blizzard's attitude was, "you already bought the game, why should anyone care if you aren't enjoying it?" The upcoming release of HOTS presents a perfect opportunity to get changes made.
You said it yourself, Blizzard is driven by money, all you're doing is recycling the complaints that people made years ago. Blizzard knows that the casual market is necessary for the success of their game, in fact, almost by definition, every successful game must cater to the casual market.
Don't you remember when reapers were nerfed to oblivion because of 2v2s?
Blizzard is going to do what they are going to do in order to get the most players coming to HOTS. The added complaining has no effect on their schedule.
Things that are getting announced now, like clan support, have been asked for since the start of WoL.
Now comes the part where I think the real difference opinion is; You think that the complaining is what got Blizzard to implement these new features, and I think that Blizzard simply goes at their own pace and schedule. They have a new product coming out, and it's going to inherently have new features, features that people did ask for 2 years back.
The assumption that Blizzard listens to it's community goes in opposition with your earlier assumption that Blizzard is in it for the money (which i'm pretty sure we know they are). They are trying to make the most profit, hence they are going to expand the SC2 audience as much as they can. Like, i'd be okay with the complaints if it was something revolutionary, but it's not, Blizzard already knows all this, we've told them about it for the past 2 years.
I'm pretty sure that for the constant amount of recycled complaints we see nowadays, Blizzard sees hundreds of times more, what the complainers are saying isn't new to them either.
EDIT: I could also understand your argument if it was possible that blizzard "forgot" about all the other complaints that were leveled against them since the release of WoL, complaints about things that would attract a greater audience. Honestly, I highly doubt that, but maybe it's possible, but after the whole Catz thing, the continuing complaining is rather useless, unless they forget about every single complaint every week
also, upon reading my post again, I see that I contradict myself saying that Blizzard doesn't listen to the community, and then saying that Blizzard has had to deal with the past 2 years of complaints. What I mean to say is that Blizzard isn't not reacting directly to the current complaints, more likely they just take the input and leave it on a back burner, weighing it's pros and cons and such
|
lol. all positive development of HOTS (an ongoing development project) is attributed to #savehots and destiny. naive is putting it lightly leth0
|
On October 26 2012 08:03 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 07:54 fuzzylogic44 wrote:
Then Reddit turns on dj wheat of all people, one of the most important people in e-sports, for doing what he always does in the face of an ill-behaved caller. The only difference here is the caller was Destiny who has a cultish following who want to destroy anyone who displeases him. I see a lot of people saying this but I really don't think destiny has that kind of love affair with the SC2 community anymore. Sure he's still kind of popular but I think most of the backlash against Wheat is because people were genuinely offended. I don't think Destiny fanboys could account for all the backlast we've seen. I can't imagine why they were so offended though, the only thing that was kind of dickish was the high 5 and the 'getting a raise' comment. Even that was pretty tame when you really think about it. This community is hyper-sensitive though.
He has his own subreddit.
As for the high five, that was incontrol being funny, I don't even get why that's controversial
And the getting a raise comment was in direct response to Destiny implying his salary had gone down. It was relevant to the argument.
|
Idra, Incontrol please ignore the idiots. There are plenty of us who support what you say.
|
On October 26 2012 08:50 iNcontroL wrote:
it gets weird reading some guy say "you think" and stuff.. holy fuck. Using "strawman" doesn't make you smart.. speaking like you know my personal motivations is pretty good evidence we got a tinfoil hat neckbeard on our hands.
Actions speak louder than words, Geoff.
You have shown very clearly you don't care so much about the quality of the game, as long as you can continue to make money off it.
Again, your silliness like "tinfoil hat" lines just show how I have precisely hit the nail on the head.
I mean, really? Calling "tinfoil hat" to point out that you have a financial stake in this? Maybe you will fool some children who are your fans, but I am sure all the adults here can understand the importance of money.
|
On October 26 2012 08:59 dubRa wrote:
Idra, Incontrol please ignore the idiots. There are plenty of us who support what you say.
+1 !
User was warned for this post
|
On October 26 2012 08:55 Portlandian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 08:41 IdrA wrote:
rofl
you think blizzard gives a shit about destiny or the root idiots? Yes. They released mockups of a new UI, clearly as a direct reaction to the complaints. Recently they have released information about some lame XP system, again probably motivated by the complaints.
Yeah they redesigned the UI in a week in response to a twitter hashtag campaign. These changes have been in the works for months because people have been complaining about the UI since day 1.
|
On October 26 2012 08:56 Leth0 wrote:
You have got to me one naive little kid if you think they made all that shit in a week. These sorts of things have been in development much longer then when destiny decided to cry about everything being dead a week ago.
But it's not out yet, they just announced it and showed some mockups that would take a designer a few hours to photoshop. Looks like you're the naive one here.
And I wouldn't even consider them substantial (or even very good) features. Just some meaningless fluff thrown out to placate people.
On October 26 2012 08:56 Leth0 wrote:
But Destiny is somehow changing the world because he wrote the worlds longest , hardest to read with a straight face, crying the sky is falling, BS and posted it on reddit?
He definitely got Blizzard's attention.
I wouldn't call that changing the world, but then again I am not a melodramatic EG fanboy.
|
On October 26 2012 08:55 Portlandian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 08:41 IdrA wrote:
rofl
you think blizzard gives a shit about destiny or the root idiots? Yes. They released mockups of a new UI, clearly as a direct reaction to the complaints. Recently they have released information about some lame XP system, again probably motivated by the complaints. Generating negative publicity works. It has been shown to work. The trick is keeping the negative publicity snowballing until they make serious changes instead of just releasing UI mockups to try and placate people. Of course, you don't want it to snowball as you have financial interests to think of. That is why you are attacking the people responsible for the negative publicity. I understand completely and don't blame you for it at all.
you do realize that my financial interests are the same as the community's and blizzard's and sc2's right? you think destinys doing this out of the good of his heart? or for the good of his stream numbers? if i thought that yelling at blizzard was the best way to get shit fixed i would... keep doing it. since ive been doing it since the beginning. but its not. its not going to accomplish anything. it can only be a negative, for me and for you and for anyone else who enjoys esports.
and if you really think they did that and announced it in a few days cuz of destiny you're a fucking imbecile. theyve been making changes and updates like that since the beta.
|
|
|
On October 26 2012 09:06 fuzzylogic44 wrote:
Yeah they redesigned the UI in a week in response to a twitter hashtag campaign. These changes have been in the works for months because people have been complaining about the UI since day 1.
They didn't redesign the UI, they just released a couple mockups and a writeup saying their intentions.
Isn't it a bit daft to claim these changes have been in the works for months? Just a few months ago they released the 1.5 patch, which they intended to settle the UI issues. You think after releasing the patch which they intended to fix the UI, they immediately started work on another new UI?
Do you have any evidence they were working on those mockups and writeup for months?
|
On October 26 2012 09:03 Portlandian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 08:50 iNcontroL wrote:
it gets weird reading some guy say "you think" and stuff.. holy fuck. Using "strawman" doesn't make you smart.. speaking like you know my personal motivations is pretty good evidence we got a tinfoil hat neckbeard on our hands. Actions speak louder than words, Geoff. You have shown very clearly you don't care so much about the quality of the game, as long as you can continue to make money off it. Again, your silliness like "tinfoil hat" lines just show how I have precisely hit the nail on the head. I mean, really? Calling "tinfoil hat" to point out that you have a financial stake in this? Maybe you will fool some children who are your fans, but I am sure all the adults here can understand the importance of money.
You keep saying that you're pointing out EG has a financial stake in the success of SC2 like nobody has figured that out already. Of course they do. That doesn't mean that them not wanting sponsors to leave the scene due to doom and gloom is them secretly shitting their pants that SC2 is dying and their fountain of infinite money and Monster is going to dry up. The last sponsors to leave the scene would likely be EG's. They don't want sponsors to leave the scene because they want SC2 to grow. Scaring away sponsors doesn't grow the scene, it shrinks it. That's why they keep saying the "sky is falling" attitude will do nothing but hinder the growth of SC2. Because that's the plain truth. Of course they care about the "quality of the game", IdrA has been one of the most vocal critics of Blizzard since SC2 came out. Don't be an idiot.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
