EPT"BM is still alive, no one is bitching about him, are you?"
You know mafia would never kill BM, are you purposely trying to say stupid things?
TL Mafia LVII - Page 113
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
"BM is still alive, no one is bitching about him, are you?" You know mafia would never kill BM, are you purposely trying to say stupid things? | ||
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On September 15 2012 23:15 Mementoss wrote: If toad was a tracker and though SnB was assasian he woulda tracked SnB end of story. EBWOP I am dumb. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
1&2: Had you been town, these are obviously nothing, and your reasoning is correct. But these two are kind of adding up to the whole picture to me. Alone, they are nothing. 3&4: Ok, my wording of you being "pushy" was probably bad wording on my part. And you focus heavily on me being contradictory (which, if you want to interpret the word pushy in the way you did, theres reason within your claim that I indeed was). But the fact still stands that the way you acted those two nights are very different. And the asking around what other people think (4) is to me very much not your style (see the sentences about will). That, you still havent attempted to explain. 5: Its still an awful lot of switching. And we have this: I very much think he's scum. I like my vote on Mementoss better for the moment though. If only for the reason that I no longer want to lynch Mementoss first. It explains that you are willing to switch off MMToss, but it doesnt explain why you are willing to. Also, I dont see why you'd consider voting on SS unless you at least have an equal scumread on SS as you did on Gravan. If you did have such a scum read, you have explained why (again, why is the key word) you were willing to vote swtich. If you did not have that scum read, you shouldnt have considered SS at all and stayed on Gravan. 6: It was my weakest point probably. And quite frankly your reply to it doesnt really relate to my point six (and you cant really defend yourself against it either, since it was mostly just me going "it seems pretty strange he got that post together at that time so fast"). About what you said in the defense though: Nothing of what you claim you did would be impossible to do as mafia in preparation for later defense. And your point about what happened N1 (which as I said have nothing to do with my point 6) I have a bit of a hard time to relate to since I wasnt there at the time. And about you not planting breadcrumbs as mafia, thats a null-read from my PoV. If someone I trust as town can confirm it, I'll take it into account. 7: Agreed its confirmation bias. Not one of my better points. Just another one of those "this does fit a bit too well" moments. Maybe I shouldnt have mentioned 6 and 7, but as 1&2 neither of them are strong at all on their own, but together they make something, so I added them. And quite frankly I dont think you can defend yourself against 6 or 7 so you probably shouldnt bother. Blame my paranoia would make more sense (since if I'm all wrong in all of this, I will be the first to admit that my paranoia totally got me on the wrong track). 8: You totally didnt reply to my point at all. My point was about you painting yourself as average town player at a time when we should be asked why you arent dead (being vet and all). The timing of that was VERY telling and nothing you wrote relates to that at all. As for the Z-Boson situation (why is this on my point 8 lol?), you yourself said you're awesome as mafia. Would you really say you, supposing you are mafia, are unable to make the read Boson was bluffing and then call for the kill on him to clear you? As someone who claimed to be awesome as mafia, dont you agree you should be able to make that call? I have that faith in someone making such a claim at least. 9: Cant really reply to that one. I think its strange you tell where trackers should go when you're the tracker. You say you did it to not look blue. Thats possible. Up to everyone to decide whether they believe you or not I guess. Personally im very sceptical. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On September 15 2012 23:19 Mementoss wrote: Toad you were clearly around for alot of the last lynch, you played the role of town leader for the first 3 days, why did you decide to be useless for the latest lynch and throw out a bunch of "I don't giva fuck who dies" type posts. You yourself even said there were too many people sheeping and lurking, and you do it yourself that whole day. Content to kill anyone that becomes popular to kill. I was still somewhat set on S&B and as mentioned wanted to track him a 2nd time. However I ended up calling him an Assassin to give myself the oppertunity to either go back to "nah think he's town" or "nah screw that, he's just mafia" depending on the 2nd check. If he had returned not visiting someone I would have ignored him for the time being. If it had returned visting someone dead I could have instantly pushed him without slipping as a blue that way because going from "think he's assassin" to "think he's mafia" isn't that big of a change. When I said I'm the most uncertain about the lynch yesterday I wasn't kidding. I considered S&B to be suspicious but did not want to lynch him until I got my 2nd check back so I forced to go for a target I considered to be inferior. I had huge troubles deciding between Grav / SS / Mav / yourself at that time and ended up thinking Grav or SS are both decent lynches while you and Mav are probably not. Though that was a conclusion I considered to be weak. I didn't feel comfortable to push a lynch completly based on my gut read / reaction on how I think you or Mav would have react as mafia instead. On September 10 2012 06:06 Toadesstern wrote: [...] About other Mafiareads: Not much right now. We've already got 2 flipped mafias and there're not going to be 191518696 more mafias in this game. I'm still standing by my point that either Grush or Shady has to be mafia. They're both giving me a hard time and everytime I want to get something going on Grush, Shady gets in the thread saying something that just screams "LYNCH ME" and vice verca. So I'm kind of having a hard time on those two. I'm still suspicious of S&B but I don't really want to go into details about him for a reason. That was probably the worst post I ever did. Quite funny noone considered that to be something except for one guy (don't know who it was) who considered it to be a mafiatreat (lol I wouldn't post like that as mafia) for not explaining. That's basicly the reason I backpaddled to Assassin because I was forced to explain it somehow. But as mentioned, backpaddling to Assassin was quite convenient as an intermediate step to whatever the the 2nd track would have made me think. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On September 15 2012 23:36 Kreb wrote: @Toad 1&2: Had you been town, these are obviously nothing, and your reasoning is correct. But these two are kind of adding up to the whole picture to me. Alone, they are nothing. 3&4: Ok, my wording of you being "pushy" was probably bad wording on my part. And you focus heavily on me being contradictory (which, if you want to interpret the word pushy in the way you did, theres reason within your claim that I indeed was). But the fact still stands that the way you acted those two nights are very different. And the asking around what other people think (4) is to me very much not your style (see the sentences about will). That, you still havent attempted to explain. 5: Its still an awful lot of switching. And we have this: It explains that you are willing to switch off MMToss, but it doesnt explain why you are willing to. Also, I dont see why you'd consider voting on SS unless you at least have an equal scumread on SS as you did on Gravan. If you did have such a scum read, you have explained why (again, why is the key word) you were willing to vote swtich. If you did not have that scum read, you shouldnt have considered SS at all and stayed on Gravan. 6: It was my weakest point probably. And quite frankly your reply to it doesnt really relate to my point six (and you cant really defend yourself against it either, since it was mostly just me going "it seems pretty strange he got that post together at that time so fast"). About what you said in the defense though: Nothing of what you claim you did would be impossible to do as mafia in preparation for later defense. And your point about what happened N1 (which as I said have nothing to do with my point 6) I have a bit of a hard time to relate to since I wasnt there at the time. And about you not planting breadcrumbs as mafia, thats a null-read from my PoV. If someone I trust as town can confirm it, I'll take it into account. 7: Agreed its confirmation bias. Not one of my better points. Just another one of those "this does fit a bit too well" moments. Maybe I shouldnt have mentioned 6 and 7, but as 1&2 neither of them are strong at all on their own, but together they make something, so I added them. And quite frankly I dont think you can defend yourself against 6 or 7 so you probably shouldnt bother. Blame my paranoia would make more sense (since if I'm all wrong in all of this, I will be the first to admit that my paranoia totally got me on the wrong track). 8: You totally didnt reply to my point at all. My point was about you painting yourself as average town player at a time when we should be asked why you arent dead (being vet and all). The timing of that was VERY telling and nothing you wrote relates to that at all. As for the Z-Boson situation (why is this on my point 8 lol?), you yourself said you're awesome as mafia. Would you really say you, supposing you are mafia, are unable to make the read Boson was bluffing and then call for the kill on him to clear you? As someone who claimed to be awesome as mafia, dont you agree you should be able to make that call? I have that faith in someone making such a claim at least. 9: Cant really reply to that one. I think its strange you tell where trackers should go when you're the tracker. You say you did it to not look blue. Thats possible. Up to everyone to decide whether they believe you or not I guess. Personally im very sceptical. I'm going to answer the ones we disagree about. There's really no point in talking about 1,2,6,7,9 right? 3,4 ) Yeah it was different because I wasn't anywhere near as comfortable picking the right lynch as I was the day before that. However you're saying my actions in 3) are weird and therefore I'm scummy and my actions in 4) are weird, therefore I'm scummy while they're completely contradicting arguments. Let's put it this way: Yes I wasn't as pushy yesterday. If you consider that a scumtreat I can't really say something to that other than that I didn't feel comfortable deciding the lynch target myself as I had a very hard time distinguishing between those reads and figure out who's the best / word lynch imo. The reasons I didn't want MMToss and Mav lynched are all minor reactions I saw. 5) Pretty much my last sentence I just wrote The reasons I didn't want MMToss and Mav lynched are all minor reactions I saw. . I explained it a little but those things are awfully hard to explain. I'm pretty sure I said somewhere along the lines that I did not think MMtoss would attack me the way he did about Z-Bosons 97% confirmed post as mafia because mafia usually wants to end up being on the right side and saying "sup guys, Boson is right, Toad is totally town" is an easy way to get towncred for mafia (assuming I'm town, which I myself know to be true). Mav looked weird due to the voting tally I quoted.SS was simply the only guy who had votes besides Gravan if you exclude MMToss and Mav. I also think I mentioned Shady quite some time over the last couple of days as possible mafia and never retracted that at all. 8) You're kind of asking me "why did mafia not shoot you". How am I supposed to know that. I mentioned the Z-Boson situation because that's an easy explanation for one of the nights. The first night I obviously didn't get shot because they prioritised BC and BM24. Ever after that we had an awful lot of talk about a medic because everyone assumed there was one for sure, so as mentioned they probably tried to get safe kills rather than vet kills when they were already low on numbers after losing 2 mafias d1/n1. But again, I have no clue. How am I supposed to know why mafia did or did not shoot me. It's just a guess and I can't answer that question. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
or 11v3 townvsmafia | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
Lets try and break this shit down shall we? The Facts: Kills: Ottoxlol was killed BC was killed by GK submitting mafia KP BM24 was killed GK was killed Actions: BKEXE watched BC and got back GK. What Toad Claims Happened: Actions: Toad tracks BM24 and returns Imallinson because he was Nosy Neighbour. There must be a 2nd vig, either mafia or town for Toads scenario to be possible. How he thinks the kills went down: BC was killed by GK submitting Mafia KP BM24 was killed by Mafia KP GK was 100% killed by town vig Ottox killed by either town or mafia vig What I think about Toads scenario: Ottox was definitly NOT killed by mafia vig, that would be retarded. Also, if mafia had a multi-shot vig you think there would have been an extra night kill night 2 or night 3, unless they ran into jailkeeper or assassian. So your scenario basically says there are 2 multi-shot town vigs in the game. But again, this makes no sense to me. 1) Would it be balanced for town to have 4 shots in a 26 person game, when mafia doesn't have a vig? 2) Does it make sense that town had another 2 shots other than Austinmc but players like grush, BM, ShiaoPi and Rewok are still alive? Doubtful. Unless a shot was ran into an assassian. But by now you would think the multi-shot was out of bullets and claimed there shots to shed light to the town. Which hasn't happened. So basically, I think your scenarios don't make much sense, and therefore your claim is fake and therefore you are scum. It's so easy to make up all these scenarios with roles such as the assassian and multi-shot vig possibilities. What I think happened: How the kills went down: BC was killed by GK submitting mafia KP BM24 was killed by mafia KP GK was killed by Austinmc but wasn't claimed because he had another shot left GK suicided into Ottox Why does this scenario make sense? Scum expected someone to vig on ottoxlol or at least watch/track him, he was the most popular topic coming into night 1, and almost everyone wanted him dead or at least figure out what the fuck he was about. Also, this post by austinmc sums up this point well, Toad talking about stacking on Ottox would make sense for a suicide onto him. On September 10 2012 06:53 austinmcc wrote: May as well post a little about Toad. *snip* The way he was asking blues to congregate on himself/BC last night worried me, in a game where scum went for a suicide bomber on outspoken townies (DrH was as outspoken and towny on my list as BC was). He wants medics on him and BC. If you're a watcher, you might want to watch those people to see who visited and either find shooters or blues if the guy doesn't die. So a request like that MIGHT = a bunch of blues stacked up. However, DrH got suicided and not BC, so the more I reread the less paranoid I am. He also wanted all vigis stacked on ottox.Same as with stacking on himself/BC, you get a nice juicy suicide bomber target. Moreover, you could ensure that extra bullets were wasted on Ottox, who you knew to be town. Again, perfectly townie thing to say - we need to have this guy gone before D2, please don't everyone think someone else will take care of this, because that's happened before. But just nagged at the back of my mind. *snip* I've got another possible situation in mind, but it is not as likely and will talk about it closer to deadline. I will now investigate toad more to my style, and shady sands as well. I don't overly care for Toad defending himself any longer, as he's good enough to make a defense as mafia that looks legit enough to not get lynched. I would like to hear his scum reads and cases moreso hes already defended himself. As homework, read into austinmc's filter to try to get some insight for what he was saying and it might clear up the night 1 nonsense. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On September 16 2012 00:17 Bill Murray wrote: Toad, in both scenarios, who are your reads for scum? I don't think it's 3 mafias left. I think Ottox and BC were right to assume 5 mafias. You usually have 6 mafias in a 30 player game. 5 mafias makes perfect sense in a 25 (26) player game. Additionally we may or may not have Assassins. If we don't have Assassins they don't interfere with that because they don't exist. If we have Assassins those are probably considered town favoring because they can soak up mafia KP and the only way to get killed is by lynch => they'll try not to get lynched while they don't care about whether mafia or town gets lynched. That being said I'd say 6 mafias total is really unlikely. ShadySands is my top mafia read followed by a bunch of people who are a about equally scummy. Like Gravan. Unlike yesterday I've got a bunch of decent townreads I don't want to get into detail today for obvious reasons. Oh and @MMToss: I actually did not consider the option you mentioned. That could be the case but yeah I'll leave it with that. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
I'm going to answer the ones we disagree about. There's really no point in talking about 1,2,6,7,9 right? Agreed. 3,4 ) Yeah it was different because I wasn't anywhere near as comfortable picking the right lynch as I was the day before that. With that, I think we are at the end and where its up to the rest whether they believe it or not. Personally I think its very strange that someone goes from seeing non-town all over the place (you had Boson, Forumite, BM, S&B all pinned down as non-town) into being very uncomfotable about any reads at all. That is a VERY big switch of certainty. And I find it much more likely to be motivated by a scum wanting Forumite gone, planting the seed, then watchign the seed grow nad blossom. And then next lynch following it up the next day by being very content with who was being talked about and not wanting to get his hands dirty but rather preferring sitting back and let the others do the mislynch-job. Thats my version. Believe mine or his. 5) Pretty much my last sentence I just wrote . I explained it a little but those things are awfully hard to explain. Well then at least you can agree this one doesnt make you look very good, right? SS was simply the only guy who had votes besides Gravan if you exclude MMToss and Mav. I also think I mentioned Shady quite some time over the last couple of days as possible mafia and never retracted that at all. Its not impossible I could have missed it. But as you claimed you had him on your target since previous, you should really show that. As it stands now, you still havent presented much of a reason as to why you considered SS as good of a target as you thought Gravan was. Also consider the follow-up question should you have such a reason: why werent SS on your 1st and (more importantly) 2nd list in that case if you had him on your mind all along? 8) You're kind of asking me "why did mafia not shoot you". How am I supposed to know that. I mentioned the Z-Boson situation because that's an easy explanation for one of the nights. The first night I obviously didn't get shot because they prioritised BC and BM24. Ever after that we had an awful lot of talk about a medic because everyone assumed there was one for sure, so as mentioned they probably tried to get safe kills rather than vet kills when they were already low on numbers after losing 2 mafias d1/n1. But again, I have no clue. How am I supposed to know why mafia did or did not shoot me. It's just a guess and I can't answer that question. Im not entirely sure what you're saying, but I cant find anything related to the fact that you painted yourself as average town at that time, so I'll leave it at that. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
Toad killed GK with scum vig powers, hoping watcher/tracker would confirm him | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
palmar trolling for the lulz | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On September 16 2012 00:41 Bill Murray wrote: Toad is scum vig Toad killed GK with scum vig powers, hoping watcher/tracker would confirm him you know what? Screw this. That's just ridiculous. I'm not going to answer stuff like that. If you think I'm mafia and you've still got your 2nd bullet (whoever the 2nd vig is) shoot me end let's get over with this. Sometimes you just have to shove someones green/blue head into peoples faces to show them how wrong they are and if people consider something like that there's really no point in arguing at all. That way you can at least get down to lynching Shady Sands tomorrow without much of a "well I think Toad is mafia and not SS" vs "yeah and I think Shady is the better lynch" fuss. That way you at least got a decent chance tomorrow. | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On September 15 2012 22:42 Toadesstern wrote: Translation: He's willing to put everything on a coinflip. If Austin was the vig who shot GK and a mafia-vig (or another town vig) shot Ottox he is going to vote me because there's no (possible) claim. If Austin wasn't the vig who shot GK he's willing to think about not voting me. LoL This is what Austin said about the Ottox NK: On September 08 2012 23:41 austinmcc wrote: This. GK as suicide bomber could still deliver a kill. And if you're scum and you lose mattchew D1, you're suiciding GK N1, you're 100% gonna use him as a shooter because he can't get caught delivering a kill, he's gonna be dead. We're basically narrowed down to BM24 being double stacked and BKE lying OR BM24 single shot, BKE watcher, and a medic save. Unless mafia shot Ottoxlol, which seems...unlikely. I'm pretty sure Grush wasn't the only one doing that. Toad did it at one point (or multiple points), everyone and their mother discussed vigi shots on half the town. Morning laziness means I'm not finding those quotes for you, but I'm almost certain there were a decent number of similar posts, but less concise. Bolded for emphasis. I'm almost willing to consider that a soft-claim for the Ottox NK. It's something other people in the thread also picked up on. | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
So yeah. Unless a vig claims they hit GK night 1, you've gotta be scum. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On September 16 2012 01:47 Shady Sands wrote: What's more, Austin didn't even mention GK directly, once, until after GK was dead. So yeah. Unless a vig claims they hit GK night 1, you've gotta be scum. Not entirely true, which it seems MMT has figured out. Seriously, learn to read the setup you guys. Way too much false information floating around this game. | ||
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On September 16 2012 02:40 Hopeless1der wrote: Not entirely true, which it seems MMT has figured out. Seriously, learn to read the setup you guys. Way too much false information floating around this game. Actually just finished reading MMT's filter. Yeah, his explanation makes more sense. Still doesn't detract from the fact that Toad's claim looks fake. Ergo, kill Toad. | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
BC was killed by GK submitting mafia KP BM24 was killed by mafia KP GK suicided into Ottox Austinmc shot someone with medic protection or with bulletproof, or he himself was roleblocked? | ||
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