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On September 06 2012 10:22 LgNKami wrote:
My only Problem with #2 is that if you remove the haywire ability and throw in something else, it will more than likely be a reason to add in energy.
warhound + energy
=
(drumrollllllll)
A weak, half health, half strength, non AA thor.
I dont think the warhound is a bad unit at all, it just needs a few tweaks as far as cost and some damage tewaks.
Dear Lord.. I have a feeling this will be how the warhound will turn out to be like given Blizzard trackrecord.
Blizzard is doing a really bad job. I mean weren't one of the priorities in HOTS was to break up the deathball? The warhound simply makes T have access to.. a Bio deathball and a Mech deathball. Also dont be fooled by the whole "mech" thing. The "mech" deathball simply consists of marauders within mini thors.
I still dont get there hatred for siege tank play evident by so many deathball units that counter the unit which emphasises on positional play. Not only that but theres literally a million ways to get through a tank line and 2~3 tanks cant even hold onto their territory very well either. One of things that annoy me so much is when they always bring up "tank line" scenarios and make it sound like its so dominant that these "new" units and skills are required.
Also lets not get confused about the warhound. The problem isn't the stats/cost w/e. Those can all be changed. The big problem is its role within the "expected" unit composition. From what we can see, its a super marauder that further overshadows the need of the tank which discourages positional play, contributes more to the deatball syndrome that is all too common, not filling the easily accessible GtA (a middle man between the marine and the thor) and kills the "mech" play which emphasises on positioning/firepower while lacking mobility. The unit looking awkward and ugly doesn't help their reasons for adding such a unit in the first place.
I mean so many things can be done to make mech viable in all matchups (especially vP) but they choose the silliest option out of them all.
edit - stick to the fundamentals blizzard. No need to be all gimmicky and "cool". Those can come later once the fundamentals of an RTS game are solid which in the context of SC2 are not (warp gate for instance) which has resulted in lots of volatility and difficult balancing sessions..
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On August 15 2012 01:45 Sircoolguy wrote:
EDITS: Quite a bit of talk about the warhound being nothing but a factory marauder, my own opinions aside, please be specific about why it is one, and how it does or does not contribute to a mech position play. Simply stating it is a factory marauder gets us nowhere. Thanks!
TBH, if I have to explain to Blizzard why it's nothing but a factory Marauder, then it's not going to get us anywhere either because they are blind to the obvious. But not to be difficult....
Counters mech.
Beefy.
Fast.
Better range than Marine.
Lacks AA.
Comparable life to cost.
Comparable damage to cost.
Second letter in name is A...
My idea for the "improving mech" slot has always been to build a Medic analog, but for mechanical units. Being Medic analog, would then constitute being something like a super SCV, but using energy rather than resources to repair units. Additionally, to address anti-air issues, it'd be able to build unique missile turrets. (Balance as necessary)
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It's conceptually counter productive.
They've essentially made two units completely useless in TvT.
You can't Marine-Tank anymore. Positioning doesn't matter anymore. Playing defensive has become even more dangerous. It's so dumb.
And what's the point of MMM now? Warhound tank better, doesn't take energy away from Marine Stim AND frees up Barracks. Only thing stopping People from never putting a Tech lab on their Barracks is for the upgrades.
As a Protoss player I've been tunnel visioned. I thought the new units for Protoss was terrible. Oracle and Tempest might be stupid and redundant but at least it doesn't HARM the meta, or totally ruin the mirror match (errr.... PvP.... ughhhh....ahhh...)
Sorry, random tangent.
Yeah, Warhounds. What the hell? Why do they exist?
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LOL on the NASL stream they were talking about how HOTS has been nicknamed Heart of the Warhound :D haha. That must be one cold, metal heart!
EDIT: \m/
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I don't know what all of the hysteria is about. I think the Warhound is an awesome unit, it just needs some tweaking.
+25 gas cost and slight movement and attack speed adjustments is all I think it would need.
Terran don't need any more units with micro so I think the haywire missiles are fine.
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But slight attack speed and movement is all that we want. Except maybe some skin changes: Theses little tweaks with litlle mines buffs will allows Terran mech map control in a more mechlike way than WH provides. Bust statwise, WH makes meching less about positionning and checkstyle than SwarmHost.
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On August 15 2012 01:47 Kamwah wrote:
It's an A-move unit, they're giving Terrans a way to be like the other two races.
fuck off lol, not like terran was op for the first year of sc2 at all...
User was warned for this post
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The thing is... if they were cool like the immortal which was pretty cute at 5 range as it waddles around trying to get a shot but does inhuman damage and erased tanks from tvp (for a long time anyway). we might have accepted the warhound. But they are ugly, look like they belong in a DIFFERENT GAME. and they shoot missiles out of their arse that do silly damage.
So no love lost. Just get rid of it or make it look less stupid when one 1 or 2 rock up and start zapping queens.
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On September 06 2012 16:47 iiGreetings wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 01:47 Kamwah wrote:
It's an A-move unit, they're giving Terrans a way to be like the other two races. fuck off lol, not like terran was op for the first year of sc2 at all...
So what? I'm sure everyone agrees with that, but where's the link between your statement and the "common knowledge" that terran is the most micro-/multitask-heavy race with the highest skill ceiling?
He just stated that Blizzard is obviously trying to lower the skill cap for them in HotS and many people rather'd like to see an "anti-deathball"-improvement for Z and P.
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On September 06 2012 08:55 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 08:52 Silencioseu wrote:On September 06 2012 08:41 Qikz wrote:
Terran really do need something with mech to beat Immortals as mass immortal is almost unbeatable even with a fully maxed out, fully upgraded mech army right now. I don't think the Warhound is what we need for it though. The warhound could be a cool unit if they slowed it down, made the model slightly smaller and upped it's supply by one to make it harder to spam. Also make Hayfire Missiles a cast, rather than auto. We still have banshees right? Banshees really don't do well enough against Immortals, especially since they require a completely different upgrade path. Terran needs something on the factory to make mass immortal (which shouldn't be viable) less viable against mech.
Why? You aren't actually supposed to be able to counter everything in the game with a single tech building (even if Freaky would argue otherwise).
There's nothing wrong with needing to build some banshees, or marines, or ghosts, to deal with one specific unit composition.
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innocent meme
![[image loading]](http://t.qkme.me/3qsbj5.jpg)
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United Kingdom12021 Posts
On September 06 2012 17:02 Jumbled wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 08:55 Qikz wrote:On September 06 2012 08:52 Silencioseu wrote:On September 06 2012 08:41 Qikz wrote:
Terran really do need something with mech to beat Immortals as mass immortal is almost unbeatable even with a fully maxed out, fully upgraded mech army right now. I don't think the Warhound is what we need for it though. The warhound could be a cool unit if they slowed it down, made the model slightly smaller and upped it's supply by one to make it harder to spam. Also make Hayfire Missiles a cast, rather than auto. We still have banshees right? Banshees really don't do well enough against Immortals, especially since they require a completely different upgrade path. Terran needs something on the factory to make mass immortal (which shouldn't be viable) less viable against mech. Why? You aren't actually supposed to be able to counter everything in the game with a single tech building (even if Freaky would argue otherwise). There's nothing wrong with needing to build some banshees, or marines, or ghosts, to deal with one specific unit composition.
One specific unit composition? I get a masive mech army comprised of some thors, hellions and lots of tanks and an army of just immortals comes and kills it. Nothing else, just immortals.
No one unit should be able to be good enough to take out an entire army.
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On September 06 2012 18:17 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 17:02 Jumbled wrote:On September 06 2012 08:55 Qikz wrote:On September 06 2012 08:52 Silencioseu wrote:On September 06 2012 08:41 Qikz wrote:
Terran really do need something with mech to beat Immortals as mass immortal is almost unbeatable even with a fully maxed out, fully upgraded mech army right now. I don't think the Warhound is what we need for it though. The warhound could be a cool unit if they slowed it down, made the model slightly smaller and upped it's supply by one to make it harder to spam. Also make Hayfire Missiles a cast, rather than auto. We still have banshees right? Banshees really don't do well enough against Immortals, especially since they require a completely different upgrade path. Terran needs something on the factory to make mass immortal (which shouldn't be viable) less viable against mech. Why? You aren't actually supposed to be able to counter everything in the game with a single tech building (even if Freaky would argue otherwise). There's nothing wrong with needing to build some banshees, or marines, or ghosts, to deal with one specific unit composition. One specific unit composition? I get a masive mech army comprised of some thors, hellions and lots of tanks and an army of just immortals comes and kills it. Nothing else, just immortals. No one unit should be able to be good enough to take out an entire army.
That is an extreme and rather silly example.
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On September 06 2012 18:17 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 17:02 Jumbled wrote:On September 06 2012 08:55 Qikz wrote:On September 06 2012 08:52 Silencioseu wrote:On September 06 2012 08:41 Qikz wrote:
Terran really do need something with mech to beat Immortals as mass immortal is almost unbeatable even with a fully maxed out, fully upgraded mech army right now. I don't think the Warhound is what we need for it though. The warhound could be a cool unit if they slowed it down, made the model slightly smaller and upped it's supply by one to make it harder to spam. Also make Hayfire Missiles a cast, rather than auto. We still have banshees right? Banshees really don't do well enough against Immortals, especially since they require a completely different upgrade path. Terran needs something on the factory to make mass immortal (which shouldn't be viable) less viable against mech. Why? You aren't actually supposed to be able to counter everything in the game with a single tech building (even if Freaky would argue otherwise). There's nothing wrong with needing to build some banshees, or marines, or ghosts, to deal with one specific unit composition. One specific unit composition? I get a masive mech army comprised of some thors, hellions and lots of tanks and an army of just immortals comes and kills it. Nothing else, just immortals. No one unit should be able to be good enough to take out an entire army.
I dont think that mass immortal beats mass hellion (with same cost for the 2 armies)
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On September 06 2012 18:17 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 17:02 Jumbled wrote:On September 06 2012 08:55 Qikz wrote:On September 06 2012 08:52 Silencioseu wrote:On September 06 2012 08:41 Qikz wrote:
Terran really do need something with mech to beat Immortals as mass immortal is almost unbeatable even with a fully maxed out, fully upgraded mech army right now. I don't think the Warhound is what we need for it though. The warhound could be a cool unit if they slowed it down, made the model slightly smaller and upped it's supply by one to make it harder to spam. Also make Hayfire Missiles a cast, rather than auto. We still have banshees right? Banshees really don't do well enough against Immortals, especially since they require a completely different upgrade path. Terran needs something on the factory to make mass immortal (which shouldn't be viable) less viable against mech. Why? You aren't actually supposed to be able to counter everything in the game with a single tech building (even if Freaky would argue otherwise). There's nothing wrong with needing to build some banshees, or marines, or ghosts, to deal with one specific unit composition. One specific unit composition? I get a masive mech army comprised of some thors, hellions and lots of tanks and an army of just immortals comes and kills it. Nothing else, just immortals. No one unit should be able to be good enough to take out an entire army.
200food of hellion tank defeats 200food of immortal. try it in the unit tester
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On September 06 2012 18:22 kaokentake wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 18:17 Qikz wrote:On September 06 2012 17:02 Jumbled wrote:On September 06 2012 08:55 Qikz wrote:On September 06 2012 08:52 Silencioseu wrote:On September 06 2012 08:41 Qikz wrote:
Terran really do need something with mech to beat Immortals as mass immortal is almost unbeatable even with a fully maxed out, fully upgraded mech army right now. I don't think the Warhound is what we need for it though. The warhound could be a cool unit if they slowed it down, made the model slightly smaller and upped it's supply by one to make it harder to spam. Also make Hayfire Missiles a cast, rather than auto. We still have banshees right? Banshees really don't do well enough against Immortals, especially since they require a completely different upgrade path. Terran needs something on the factory to make mass immortal (which shouldn't be viable) less viable against mech. Why? You aren't actually supposed to be able to counter everything in the game with a single tech building (even if Freaky would argue otherwise). There's nothing wrong with needing to build some banshees, or marines, or ghosts, to deal with one specific unit composition. One specific unit composition? I get a masive mech army comprised of some thors, hellions and lots of tanks and an army of just immortals comes and kills it. Nothing else, just immortals. No one unit should be able to be good enough to take out an entire army. 200food of hellion tank defeats 200food of immortal. try it in the unit tester
lol you stupid or what ? I asked for same cost for each armies. Hellions only cost mineralz, immortalz costs gas. Obvsly 200 200 immo beats 200 200 hellion... --
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On September 06 2012 18:25 Insoleet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 18:22 kaokentake wrote:On September 06 2012 18:17 Qikz wrote:On September 06 2012 17:02 Jumbled wrote:On September 06 2012 08:55 Qikz wrote:On September 06 2012 08:52 Silencioseu wrote:On September 06 2012 08:41 Qikz wrote:
Terran really do need something with mech to beat Immortals as mass immortal is almost unbeatable even with a fully maxed out, fully upgraded mech army right now. I don't think the Warhound is what we need for it though. The warhound could be a cool unit if they slowed it down, made the model slightly smaller and upped it's supply by one to make it harder to spam. Also make Hayfire Missiles a cast, rather than auto. We still have banshees right? Banshees really don't do well enough against Immortals, especially since they require a completely different upgrade path. Terran needs something on the factory to make mass immortal (which shouldn't be viable) less viable against mech. Why? You aren't actually supposed to be able to counter everything in the game with a single tech building (even if Freaky would argue otherwise). There's nothing wrong with needing to build some banshees, or marines, or ghosts, to deal with one specific unit composition. One specific unit composition? I get a masive mech army comprised of some thors, hellions and lots of tanks and an army of just immortals comes and kills it. Nothing else, just immortals. No one unit should be able to be good enough to take out an entire army. 200food of hellion tank defeats 200food of immortal. try it in the unit tester lol you stupid or what ? I asked for same cost for each armies. Hellions only cost mineralz, immortalz costs gas. Obvsly 200 200 immo beats 200 200 hellion... --
i said hellion tank
140 food of immortals, 35 of them, cost 8750 minerals 3500 gas
28 tanks costs 4200 minerals 3500 gas, takes up 84 supply. 28 hellions costs 2800 minerals and 56 supply
thats 140 food, 7000 minerals, 3500 gas. And it defeats and equal amount of food in immortals
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On September 06 2012 18:25 Insoleet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 18:22 kaokentake wrote:On September 06 2012 18:17 Qikz wrote:On September 06 2012 17:02 Jumbled wrote:On September 06 2012 08:55 Qikz wrote:On September 06 2012 08:52 Silencioseu wrote:On September 06 2012 08:41 Qikz wrote:
Terran really do need something with mech to beat Immortals as mass immortal is almost unbeatable even with a fully maxed out, fully upgraded mech army right now. I don't think the Warhound is what we need for it though. The warhound could be a cool unit if they slowed it down, made the model slightly smaller and upped it's supply by one to make it harder to spam. Also make Hayfire Missiles a cast, rather than auto. We still have banshees right? Banshees really don't do well enough against Immortals, especially since they require a completely different upgrade path. Terran needs something on the factory to make mass immortal (which shouldn't be viable) less viable against mech. Why? You aren't actually supposed to be able to counter everything in the game with a single tech building (even if Freaky would argue otherwise). There's nothing wrong with needing to build some banshees, or marines, or ghosts, to deal with one specific unit composition. One specific unit composition? I get a masive mech army comprised of some thors, hellions and lots of tanks and an army of just immortals comes and kills it. Nothing else, just immortals. No one unit should be able to be good enough to take out an entire army. 200food of hellion tank defeats 200food of immortal. try it in the unit tester lol you stupid or what ? I asked for same cost for each armies. Hellions only cost mineralz, immortalz costs gas. Obvsly 200 200 immo beats 200 200 hellion... --
But that's not what he said. Read it again.
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What is the role Warhound is supposed to do? Battle Hellion on its own could probably make mech viable TvP.
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Im watching thorzain play atm, and I must say, from a top down view, warhounds arent that bad looking. Slender with a cool animation, so its not that bad.
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EPT
