EPTA fast long range unit that costs less supply and resources than a tank and requires next to no micro. I fear that by the time the toss expansion comes out, the game will be in "full retard" mode. And you know you never go "full retard".
[D] Warhound: Is it good or should it be changed? - Page 35
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ilikeredheads
Canada1995 Posts
A fast long range unit that costs less supply and resources than a tank and requires next to no micro. I fear that by the time the toss expansion comes out, the game will be in "full retard" mode. And you know you never go "full retard". | ||
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Berceno
Spain401 Posts
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On September 06 2012 08:30 Mohdoo wrote: Faster than unstimmed bio,insane DPS, 2 food cheap unit. Its like a roach on crack that crushes mechanical units. Faster than a chargelot, up to four times the dps of a stalker, goes through hardened shells, has 220 hp, has 7 range (more than a stalker, almost twice that of a roach), costs a paltry 150/75 and takes up two supply. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12047 Posts
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Herect
Brazil216 Posts
Making Haywire a upgrade instead of a natural ability can help. Or reducing its range/speed to increase with some upgrade should be ok too. | ||
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wcr.4fun
Belgium686 Posts
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Silencioseu
Cyprus493 Posts
On September 06 2012 08:41 Qikz wrote: Terran really do need something with mech to beat Immortals as mass immortal is almost unbeatable even with a fully maxed out, fully upgraded mech army right now. I don't think the Warhound is what we need for it though. The warhound could be a cool unit if they slowed it down, made the model slightly smaller and upped it's supply by one to make it harder to spam. Also make Hayfire Missiles a cast, rather than auto. We still have banshees right? | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12047 Posts
Banshees really don't do well enough against Immortals, especially since they require a completely different upgrade path. Terran needs something on the factory to make mass immortal (which shouldn't be viable) less viable against mech. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On September 06 2012 08:55 Qikz wrote: Banshees really don't do well enough against Immortals, especially since they require a completely different upgrade path. Terran needs something on the factory to make mass immortal (which shouldn't be viable) less viable against mech. I'd say a raven ability instead of another factory unit/cast. Anyway, I wonder why Blizzard didn't fix something that is dead obvious - tempest, warhound, locust. | ||
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Sabu113
United States11091 Posts
On September 06 2012 08:41 Qikz wrote: Terran really do need something with mech to beat Immortals as mass immortal is almost unbeatable even with a fully maxed out, fully upgraded mech army right now. I don't think the Warhound is what we need for it though. The warhound could be a cool unit if they slowed it down, made the model slightly smaller and upped it's supply by one to make it harder to spam. Also make Hayfire Missiles a cast, rather than auto. EMP? I understand that's super gas intensive but if we're talking about a late game tank heavy army.... why can't you land a few emps and suddenly turn those immortals into large paperweights? The current warhound itteration reminds me of day1 reapers. | ||
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Hryul
Austria2609 Posts
On September 06 2012 07:34 HowardRoark wrote: Flash's OSL match raked up 3k viewers from foreign fans TODAY(!), while a standard MOBA clone rakes up five-ten times that amount for a standard tournament match. That is just scary numbers. The Star2 guys that were cheering for BW's death in the forums some month ago already left the sinking ship playing MOBA or some other fluke. Left are those of us who wanted to watch RTS, but saw BW killed by the "new" Blizzard. What do we have left? A completely dead BW scene killed by "fans" and "Blizzard", and a train wreck of a game that dared to brand itself Starcraft 2. The really sad thing is, now with BW basically gone I would expect a rise in viewer number since all RTS gamers are (to an extend) forced to SC2. One may argue that GSL is more appealing than OGS atm but the idea stays the same. Still we aren't outnumbering one Moba game. The question may be what is needed to attract/hold more people. Without the diehards the proscene can't exist but the casuals will attract sponsors. I also think we need some easy to recognize features which show "skill" like marinesplitting vs banelings. Otherwise we have just stuff exploding in various ways which may not distinguish enough from a moba. Watching people macro up for 10 mins is as exciting as creeping for 10 min for one big explosion of skills. That being said i'm not really convinced by the latest queen buff which killed a lot of midgame and i also don't like the warhound. It just seems to be a hardcounterunit which doesn't encourage any kind of additional micro. at least you'd have to stim the marauder. the warhound is completely 1a. But I've been playing a bit D3 lately and if I have learned anything there is that whining can change the world. If you cry long and loud enough about the features Blizz thinks is good, they will finally move. + Show Spoiler + I don't like the inferno nerf but hey, at least they changed what the majority seemingly wanted. That being said I think we all should move to the Blizz Forums and start spamming/flaming there instead of having a conversation here. On the last remark about the BW vs SC2 front: One problem is that a lot of BW fans sounded like old men simply clinging to BW for the pasts sake. An example would be the damnation of the baneling where they were partially wrong. It turned out to be a fun unit. (Not implying the lurker would have been better/worse.) They were right on the colossus though because of its extreme mobility. It was hard to filter out the well deserved critic from the die hard conservatives. I think the debate is over without any winner. We should focus on making Starcraft 2 a better game and (stop the warhound) | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12047 Posts
On September 06 2012 08:59 Sabu113 wrote: EMP? I understand that's super gas intensive but if we're talking about a late game tank heavy army.... why can't you land a few emps and suddenly turn those immortals into large paperweights? The current warhound itteration reminds me of day1 reapers. Even with EMP immortals trade incredibly well against a massive amount of tanks. This is coming from someone who was playing hellion/tank/ghost in the matchup for the past few weeks until nightmarjoo (Lyra) taught me his style yesterday which involves teching quickly to air. | ||
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Sabu113
United States11091 Posts
On September 06 2012 09:04 Qikz wrote: Even with EMP immortals trade incredibly well against a massive amount of tanks. This is coming from someone who was playing hellion/tank/ghost in the matchup for the past few weeks until nightmarjoo (Lyra) taught me his style yesterday which involves teching quickly to air. Mn. My problem with immortal nerfs is that mass repair on thors seems like a super easy and viable strat then. (recalling the last TSL) I'll agree that mech needs to be really tough to face head on after awhile to justify abusing warpins and blink. | ||
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robaq
Poland186 Posts
On August 15 2012 01:58 Plansix wrote: I need to see and use the unit before I can make a decision on it. There are a number of factors that we have no idea about: - Can it be dropped effectively during combat? Can a small group of them be used to flank units like colossi, using their front loaded damage to take them down quick? - How do they control? Do they feel like stalkers, immortals or roaches? Can they kite melee units or units with shorter range? As for looks, I like my mechs ugly and dumb looking. The unit looks like something out of mech warrior, which is awesome in many ways. I am not willing to jump on to the warhound-hate-wagon yet. Much like people I have never meet and books I have not read, I wait until I interact with the Warhound before passing judgment. So true. Also, some people seem to be missing the point that warhounds cannot be stimmed or healed by medivacs. Doesn't seem like a marauder to me. | ||
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johnny123
521 Posts
On September 06 2012 08:59 Hryul wrote: The really sad thing is, now with BW basically gone I would expect a rise in viewer number since all RTS gamers are (to an extend) forced to SC2. One may argue that GSL is more appealing than OGS atm but the idea stays the same. Still we aren't outnumbering one Moba game. The question may be what is needed to attract/hold more people. Without the diehards the proscene can't exist but the casuals will attract sponsors. I also think we need some easy to recognize features which show "skill" like marinesplitting vs banelings. Otherwise we have just stuff exploding in various ways which may not distinguish enough from a moba. Watching people macro up for 10 mins is as exciting as creeping for 10 min for one big explosion of skills. That being said i'm not really convinced by the latest queen buff which killed a lot of midgame and i also don't like the warhound. It just seems to be a hardcounterunit which doesn't encourage any kind of additional micro. at least you'd have to stim the marauder. the warhound is completely 1a. But I've been playing a bit D3 lately and if I have learned anything there is that whining can change the world. If you cry long and loud enough about the features Blizz thinks is good, they will finally move. + Show Spoiler + I don't like the inferno nerf but hey, at least they changed what the majority seemingly wanted. That being said I think we all should move to the Blizz Forums and start spamming/flaming there instead of having a conversation here. On the last remark about the BW vs SC2 front: One problem is that a lot of BW fans sounded like old men simply clinging to BW for the pasts sake. An example would be the damnation of the baneling where they were partially wrong. It turned out to be a fun unit. (Not implying the lurker would have been better/worse.) They were right on the colossus though because of its extreme mobility. It was hard to filter out the well deserved critic from the die hard conservatives. I think the debate is over without any winner. We should focus on making Starcraft 2 a better game and (stop the warhound) can you garbage cans stop talking out of your arses? i mean shit, there was both gsl and osl on at the same time, Even i missed flash vs whoever because i was watching marine king vs jaedong, only after the 3rd game i realized flash was on and apparently it was over already. Then you add on the fact that hots beta out and everybody is watching beta streams. ( as i did last night, watched dimaga/thorzain whole night. god, all these damn baseless apocalyptic posts really annoy me, so much opinions, so much b.s And just to be on topic with the thread, i like the warhound. | ||
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Deezl
United States355 Posts
2-3 warhounds is a good answer to 5queen infinity creepspread and forces Z to delay tech for lings, which you can answer with battle hellions. They can also go SpeedRoach or Muta because factory shit doesn't shoot up until Thor and speedroaches look like they would be cost effective and allow you to base up and drone. Cool unit that gives Terran a cool way to pressure while teching and can be mixed in to a variety of comps. | ||
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r00ty
Germany1083 Posts
On September 06 2012 09:22 robaq wrote: So true. Also, some people seem to be missing the point that warhounds cannot be stimmed or healed by medivacs. Doesn't seem like a marauder to me. It can be repaired by though. Warhound rush may be a more viable Thor rush (with some Hellions for the ling counter e.g.)... Overall the unit is ok, but too powerful, when you look at the numbers. Anyway, it's not the time to make a final judgement. The game and the matchups have to develop a bit first. (remember the Zealot nerf,buff,nerf,buff,buff,...) | ||
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RyLai
United States477 Posts
There are several aspects that should be fixed. 1) Mobility. It's too mobile for a mech unit that does as much damage and tanks as much damage as it does. This clearly needs to be changed to 2.25, maybe 2.5. 2) DPS. It shreds mechanical units, meaning Protoss basically can't do anything to defend against it early on due to the combined mobility and DPS of the damned thing. Haywire missles should either be removed or reassigned to it's normal attack, maybe having it so that it's a unit that does 12 damage (+18 vs Mechanical). 3) Range. You don't put high DPS, mobility, and high range together in one package. If you drop the DPS, it's fine, but at the moment it shreds everything. 4) Health. While mech should be tanky, you can't put blah blah blah together (points 1-4). You create and inherently broken unit. It's fast, it's hard to kill even if you catch it, it will kill you much faster than you kill it, and it can shoot you from afar. Kite kite kite=gg. 5) It's basically a super Marauder, which makes it's role weird. It's a giant, mechanical, infantry unit. What does mech need? It needs something to basically protect the Tanks from blitzing armored units and air units. You basically can't defend against that, which is why the Tank is essentially removed from current mech play. Suggestion? Buff tanks (both in siege time and damage vs Armored), and have the Warhound play the light anti-air role whereas the Thor can play more of a heavy anti-air mode. Though no matter how you look at it, everything is weird and hard to fit in. But for anti air there are Vikings... Which creates a war for air superiority, which mech shouldn't really be about until 40+ minutes into the game when you transition into sky Terran. The Warhound simply needs to be remade, the Tank improved, and maybe the Thor removed. I don't know about anyone else, but the Tank felt a lot better in BW and it was always the core of mech. Now, it's sort of lost it's role except in TvT mech. In TvP mech (for HotS), it's basically everything mech except for Tanks. Why make Tanks when they slow you down and don't do remotely enough damage to make up for it. You have stronger, more mobile options. If this continues, the Tank will die out in mech play except to deal with Marauders and Marines. | ||
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RyLai
United States477 Posts
On September 06 2012 09:56 Deezl wrote: Warhound looks good guys. Everyone needs to chillax and stop throwing terribad ideas down in this thread. 2-3 warhounds is a good answer to 5queen infinity creepspread and forces Z to delay tech for lings, which you can answer with battle hellions. They can also go SpeedRoach or Muta because factory shit doesn't shoot up until Thor and speedroaches look like they would be cost effective and allow you to base up and drone. Cool unit that gives Terran a cool way to pressure while teching and can be mixed in to a variety of comps. The issue with Warhounds isn't against Zerg. It's against Protoss. They aren't nearly as useful against Zerg because nothing is mechanical. Sure, their base stats are pretty good, but just go defensive mech with everything in the Mech arsenal except Warhounds. Then march across the map and win because 20 Tanks will demolish any armored ground unit, the Battle Hellions will buffer extremely well and demolish all the incoming Lings, and the Thors will clean up the air and remaining Roaches/Hydras. If necessary, add Vikings for Broodlords. Move across the map and win. Against Protoss... You build 2-3 quick Warhounds and win with good micro. | ||
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Steelo_Rivers
United States1968 Posts
warhound + energy = (drumrollllllll) A weak, half health, half strength, non AA thor. I dont think the warhound is a bad unit at all, it just needs a few tweaks as far as cost and some damage tewaks. | ||
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