EPT[D] Warhound: Is it good or should it be changed? - Page 37
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Evangelist
1246 Posts
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MoonCricket
222 Posts
I think they should just cut the Thor and make the Warhound a less powerful, more cost efficient version of the Thor that can move and shoot to either break Tank lines or chase Mutalisks, and for the love of god require you to build an Armory to produce them. | ||
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Zorgaz
Sweden2951 Posts
And guys noway that the Warhound is not going to be nerfed, chill out. | ||
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Brahoono
119 Posts
On September 06 2012 19:21 Evangelist wrote: Warhound does too much damage and looks a bit silly. Not sure what exactly it's meant to do, but they'll find a niche for it. A lot of bitter BW fanbois have chosen this place to vent, no surprise of course. Has nothing to do with being a scbw fanboy. Many people just don't think the units fits the game or the style mech how mech is supposed to be played. Other than it coming out of a factory and being a roboter it has NOTHING to do with mech gameplay...it basically feels like a bio unit. | ||
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Evangelist
1246 Posts
On September 06 2012 19:52 Brahoono wrote: Has nothing to do with being a scbw fanboy. Many people just don't think the units fits the game or the style mech how mech is supposed to be played. Other than it coming out of a factory and being a roboter it has NOTHING to do with mech gameplay...it basically feels like a bio unit. I don't understand this. What's the difference between the warhound, the goliath and the thor? | ||
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wcr.4fun
Belgium686 Posts
On September 06 2012 04:05 Dontkillme wrote: It looks ugly but us terrans need a unit we can simply a move and not worry so much about micro That's what you want along with thee casuals. People who care about e-sports and entertainment want something good with potential. On September 06 2012 20:03 Evangelist wrote: I don't understand this. What's the difference between the warhound, the goliath and the thor? watch some bw mech zvt or bw mech tvp. | ||
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Hryul
Austria2609 Posts
On September 06 2012 20:03 Evangelist wrote: I don't understand this. What's the difference between the warhound, the goliath and the thor? The main point those people are trying to make isn't specifically about the units but rather the style a composition is played. The core of BW was the siege tank which was insanely powerful at defending. Together with the mine from the vulture one could set up huge lines of defense and literally zone out the enemy from parts of the map. This encouraged strong positional play and forced the enemy either to try to find the weak spot in the line or circumvent the whole line with multipronged harass/drop. The warhound seems to do the exact opposite. It renders the siege tank useless and resembles a more flexible and mobile style of play, which is mostly associated with stimmed marines running around like crazy hence bio. E: mech explained | ||
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LloydPGM
85 Posts
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Rimak
Denmark434 Posts
Here are some designs of light mechs, that i find much better than the Warhound + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/thumb/d/dc/Locust.jpg/191px-Locust.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/thumb/9/9b/Porcupine.JPG/191px-Porcupine.JPG.png) ![[image loading]](http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/thumb/6/6d/Snowfox.jpg/191px-Snowfox.jpg.png) ![[image loading]](http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/thumb/6/61/Thorn.jpg/191px-Thorn.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/thumb/9/90/Firefalcon.jpg/191px-Firefalcon.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/thumb/1/1c/Icestorm.gif/191px-Icestorm.gif.png) ![[image loading]](http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/thumb/d/d1/Mongoose.jpg/191px-Mongoose.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/thumb/7/70/Sling.jpg/191px-Sling.jpg.png) ![[image loading]](http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/thumb/1/19/Solitaire.jpg/191px-Solitaire.jpg.png) And I'm not even talking about this guy =) ![[image loading]](http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/thumb/0/09/3050U_Atlas.jpg/635px-3050U_Atlas.jpg.png) | ||
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DusTerr
2520 Posts
Mech could really benefit from having a unit that could push forward and bate engagements (hellions don't do enough damage, thors are too slow and tanks need to stay sieged in this scenario). I like how the warhound is a mech marauder. People talk about how boring they are, and although the unit doesn't have any "skill" they're still able to be micro'd a lot because they are so fast. One suggestion I would make is to remove the haywire missles and instead just have a straigt +mech damage modifier (similar to archon's +bio damage). Now it seems that Blizzard wanted warhounds to counter immortals and they do, but maybe too well. Giving them a double attack (similar to zealot, reaper, thor etc) would allow them to still damage immortals better than other mech units but require target micro. Final wild idea... because they share so much in common otherwise with thors (but are very "boring") why not make the thor an upgrade for the warhound (corruptor > bl style build/morph - maybe requires an SCV to build) half off topic... they should scrap battle helions and give bio some aoe (firebats?) otherwise mech will just be the only option available (and I do like the options having a warhound gives terrans). | ||
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summerloud
Austria1201 Posts
On September 06 2012 21:05 LloydPGM wrote: I wonder who will play bio now ? They should remove marauder. And reaper, useless since queen range is 5 now. im against removing any underused units, niche units are nice for team games, ffas, and special situations. no units should ever be removed from the game on the ground that they are barely used | ||
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RyLai
United States477 Posts
On September 06 2012 17:02 Jumbled wrote: Why? You aren't actually supposed to be able to counter everything in the game with a single tech building (even if Freaky would argue otherwise). There's nothing wrong with needing to build some banshees, or marines, or ghosts, to deal with one specific unit composition. Ever watched Broodwar? The Terrans there would like to contest your statement of not being able to deal with every unit in the game with just the Factory. Lings? Vulture, Spider Mines, and Tanks. Hydras? Same as with Lings. Lurkers? Tanks. Muta? Goliath (LOTS of them). Ultra? Tanks. Defiler? Spider Mines and Tanks. Guardian? Goliath. Queen? Goliath and Turrets.  Marines? Tanks, Spider Mines, and Vultures. Firebats? Basically all mech. Ghosts? Tanks and Spider Mines. Wraiths? Goliaths. BCs? Goliaths. Drops? Goliaths. (See how sexy these things are? Zealots? Vultures. Spider Mines and Tanks work but with varying degrees of success and failure. Dragoons? Spider Mines and Tanks. Holy crap Tanks did great against Dragoons. High Templars? Tanks. DTs? Spider Mines. Shuttle? Goliaths. Reaver? Spider Mines and Tanks. Scout? Goliaths. Carriers? Goliaths. Arbiters? Goliaths. Sure, you can accentuate it with Science Vessels and Wraiths. But you can BASICALLY deal with everything reasonably well using pure Factory mech. As to the Immortal problem... Did you know Ghosts remove EXACTLY 100 Shields? And Immortals are only strong as long as they have 1 point out of their 100 Shields? Sooooo... If you went Ghost Mech vs Protoss (which you are SUPPOSED TO DO ANYWAY), Immortals aren't a problem. However... Hellions also do rather well, though they do terribly versus mass Stalker. But you'd be amazing at how effective mass Hellions are if you get a good angle. The splash damage is ridiculous. As to the problem with Mech and Warhounds... It feels like Blizzard is afraid of essentially recreating an easier Broodwar, so they venture away from creating the exact same units/abilities. I mean, Blinding Cloud and Dark Swarm... We'd all rather have Dark Swarm. Consume and Consume? We'd rather have the Broodwar Variant. We'd rather have Broodwar Siege Tanks (in siege mode, though to me they feel like they did more damage all around and sieged and unsieged faster). The Goliath would fit in better than the Warhound (especially if you buffed Tanks). Overall, like many have said before, Mech should be slow, VERY difficult to beat if in a static position, and reasonably position based. As it is now, Siege Tanks cost too much supply, cost quite a bit (+25 gas and +1 supply over it's BW version), and deal LESS damage in Siege mode. Now we have an A-move unit that essentially takes away ALL the weaknesses of mech while maintaining the strengths. Does it help to alleviate the weaknesses of a mech army? Yes. But is it so good that it completely eclipses the mech army as a whole instead of being a component of mech play? Absolutely. Like everyone said, why spend 150/125/3 when you can spend far less for a far better unit in the Warhound? It literally contributes nothing to mech except to destroy it (along with everything else in the game that walks instead of flying). If anything, this should be remade to be a bio unit that requires Armory to unlock (as well as having SEVERAL stats nerfs), and something similar to a Goliath should be added to Mech (and buff Siege Tanks, hint hint). Honestly, if you want to improve mech, buff the sheer CORE of mech, which should always be the Tank. Everything else should serve no other purpose other than to protect you and your Tanks until you can get a number of them with which you can slowly move across the map. From there, give the other two races something to slowly push the mech army back or weaken it through some form of disruption (like Dark Swarm and Statis Field). Then give Terran back Irradiate and everything works out! Seriously though, buff Tanks, nerf Warhounds. | ||
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Solid_J
Norway18 Posts
As for the warhound. I am SO excited that terrans get their own "colossus". A-move unit? Yeah, but the speed really makes me happy as for the possibility to micro. However, for the sake of balance, its a little bit to strong, and very supply efficient. Include armory and make it a 3 supply unit. | ||
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Brahoono
119 Posts
On September 06 2012 22:23 Solid_J wrote: As for the warhound. I am SO excited that terrans get their own "colossus". A-move unit? Yeah, but the speed really makes me happy as for the possibility to micro. However, for the sake of balance, its a little bit to strong, and very supply efficient. Include armory and make it a 3 supply unit. Its not a colossus. Its basically a stimmed Marine/Marauder coming from the factory which is pretty stupid since it doesn't fit mech gameplay at all. | ||
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
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Duncaaaaaan
United Kingdom101 Posts
It's day 2 of the beta, warhounds are a bit too good vs stalkers and immortals? Chill the fuck out. | ||
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Mongoose
United Kingdom190 Posts
What's most annoying for me is that terrans have adapted to tank lines in TvT so well in the last year that tank lines aren't even an issue anymore (in terms of spectator enjoyment). TvT is truly a great matchup to watch, and probably has more action than any other matchup on average. I'm all for making mech more viable against protoss so we don't have to make bio every single game, but I have to agree with the fact that warhounds do not fit in to "mech style play", i.e. they can't lock down areas. Even Protoss has a better way of locking down areas in the midgame compared to terran, with colossi (which you can't really engage until you have vikings, or a much greater bio force). In the end it comes down to whether we really want this 'area control/lockdown' style play, and whether widow mines can take over this responsibility in tvp? (well, I guess not, since protoss always has observers, but i haven't seen them in play much). Well, we'll always have tanks for TvT at least, in TvP tanks aren't really used anyway so we're not loosing much, we're just getting another viable option (which doesn't really come with a different playstyle). | ||
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Hds
France200 Posts
Btw, his anim of shooting is too "weak" for me, too little compared to the Marau | ||
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lim1017
Canada1278 Posts
Im calling it now. | ||
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sekalf
Sweden522 Posts
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