EPT[D] Warhound: Is it good or should it be changed? - Page 39
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Tchado
Jordan1831 Posts
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Chronos.
United States805 Posts
The battle-hellion isn't that bad but it kinda makes mech way stronger than bio in TvT, and now that everyone has to go mech, they end up having to go mass Warhound because the Warhound destroys every other mech unit... No more chess like positional games. No more fast paced bio vs bio. No more bio trying to pick apart mech players. Most pro players are complaining about how terrible it is now too, it changed from one of the most decision making oriented match-ups to the absolute least =( | ||
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Zergrusher
United States562 Posts
On September 07 2012 04:08 ilikeredheads wrote: The warhound is essentially a marauder piloting a Gundam. It's a terribly, terribly designed unit that does terrible, terrible damage. Can Dustin think of anything else besides 1a2a3a??? As starcraft is destoryed before your eyes with bad unit designs.. Let us ask.... why is that? Because dustin never played BW so he has no clue what makes a good RTS game. Hes jump from company to company to work on RTS games, and at this point hes just smooshing things together. I don't hate the guy, just his unit designs. Searously I know ways to fix the game and make it better for all 3 races... but no one is willing to listen.. or let me post a thread  anyways, The unit designs are the main flaw is SC2..... its like dustin was transfered to blizzard pruposely to mess with sc2... And lets be honest HOW IS THE ROACH,WARHOUND,MARAUDER,THOR,COLLOSI FUN????? How are they good for strategy? RTS should have a mix of fun and strategy and it should be easy to learn.. but hard to master, and rewarding over time. | ||
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Raid
United States398 Posts
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transcendent one
251 Posts
On September 07 2012 04:02 drbrown wrote: The Warhound needs to be at least slower than it is now, it's completely destroying everything in the beta. I've seen plenty of terrans kite with the Warhound, it's brutal vs protoss. doesn't make warhound micro heavy though relatively speaking, you can kite zealots with roaches and still roaches are one of the most 1a friendly units in the game | ||
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Xain
Canada94 Posts
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RaZorwire
Sweden718 Posts
On September 07 2012 04:31 transcendent one wrote: doesn't make warhound micro heavy though relatively speaking, you can kite zealots with roaches and still roaches are one of the most 1a friendly units in the game I think the Warhound has a ton of micro potential, to be honest. Long range, slowly attack frequency but fast response, reasonably fast movement, useful for drop harass, etc. Mind you, I still don't think it seem like a very good unit since it doesn't actually NEED to micro in it's current state, but the micro POTENTIAL is there.  Either way, I still don't like how it acts right now. It removes most reasons for Terran to ever build tanks and makes mech gameplay very mobile and bio-like. | ||
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MarcH
United Kingdom362 Posts
LOL blizz relay have dropped the ball on this one my only concern is that they have already gone too far with the current HoTS build to change much and the end result is going to be awful | ||
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Herect
Brazil216 Posts
People complain about how the Warhound is a 1A unit, but i'm only seeing people trying to blind counter it with other 1A units instead of using shit that have to be microed and positional play. The Warhound, besides stimmed marauders and roaches sandwiches or anything that is air and attacks to the Ground doesn't have a counter. And that's good, sC2 is a strategy game, and not Rock Paper Scissor. And, plz, people that are wanting the Goliath back. The goliath is the most dumb unit in all Mech of bw, its a counter to air. Just that. The Thor is 100 times better. Is slow, huge and have AoE to air. Positioning is everything to Thors, and his AoE promote cool shit like Muta magic boxing. If you want the Goliath, i can only say that you don't want to SC2 become a better game, you just want BW back. Its not because a unit is simple, that doesn't bring interesting play. Look at the Marine, the Zergling, the Zealot. all unit simple as hell, and still promote cool play. The Colossus, and the Broodlord even if they are non-intuitive and do strange stuff are just Juggernauts that kill diversity in the gameplay. I'm looking for when people start to play a strategy game. When you do that you'll just roflstomp warhound. (Besides Warhound/scv train all in, that shit is strong). | ||
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MarcH
United Kingdom362 Posts
On September 07 2012 05:25 Herect wrote: The Warhound doesn't have design flaws. Maybe, it's a bit overpowered now, but not in a design PoV. It's really strong in the early game, but it becomes weak as time passes on when AoE, FF, big ranged units come in to play (and doesn't have a exclusive upgrade like stim, range, speed, wtv) . It's big, so it' pretty useless on Choke points. And in open field they can be easily flanked. People complain about how the Warhound is a 1A unit, but i'm only seeing people trying to blind counter it with other 1A units instead of using shit that have to be microed and positional play. The Warhound, besides stimmed marauders and roaches sandwiches or anything that is air and attacks to the Ground doesn't have a counter. And that's good, sC2 is a strategy game, and not Rock Paper Scissor. And, plz, people that are wanting the Goliath back. The goliath is the most dumb unit in all Mech of bw, its a counter to air. Just that. The Thor is 100 times better. Is slow, huge and have AoE to air. Positioning is everything to Thors, and his AoE promote cool shit like Muta magic boxing. If you want the Goliath, i can only say that you don't want to SC2 become a better game, you just want BW back. Its not because a unit is simple, that doesn't bring interesting play. Look at the Marine, the Zergling, the Zealot. all unit simple as hell, and still promote cool play. The Colossus, and the Broodlord even if they are non-intuitive and do strange stuff are just Juggernauts that kill diversity in the gameplay. I'm looking for when people start to play a strategy game. When you do that you'll just roflstomp warhound. (Besides Warhound/scv train all in, that shit is strong). So i have read your post and I have to say I disagree with most of what you say but you really seem to have missed a few things given your first sentence. The warhound was touted as a unit to make Terran Mech play more viable and as a unit It wrecks Mech units making Standard Mech play not viable. How is that not a design flaw?. | ||
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Kal_rA
United States2925 Posts
 And it could shoot air. /sarcasm It'll get nerfed fosure but I just hope they change the look of it.. Its UGGGGGLY | ||
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Hider
Denmark9341 Posts
On September 07 2012 05:25 Herect wrote: The Warhound doesn't have design flaws. Maybe, it's a bit overpowered now, but not in a design PoV. It's really strong in the early game, but it becomes weak as time passes on when AoE, FF, big ranged units come in to play (and doesn't have a exclusive upgrade like stim, range, speed, wtv) . It's big, so it' pretty useless on Choke points. And in open field they can be easily flanked. People complain about how the Warhound is a 1A unit, but i'm only seeing people trying to blind counter it with other 1A units instead of using shit that have to be microed and positional play. The Warhound, besides stimmed marauders and roaches sandwiches or anything that is air and attacks to the Ground doesn't have a counter. And that's good, sC2 is a strategy game, and not Rock Paper Scissor. And, plz, people that are wanting the Goliath back. The goliath is the most dumb unit in all Mech of bw, its a counter to air. Just that. The Thor is 100 times better. Is slow, huge and have AoE to air. Positioning is everything to Thors, and his AoE promote cool shit like Muta magic boxing. If you want the Goliath, i can only say that you don't want to SC2 become a better game, you just want BW back. Its not because a unit is simple, that doesn't bring interesting play. Look at the Marine, the Zergling, the Zealot. all unit simple as hell, and still promote cool play. The Colossus, and the Broodlord even if they are non-intuitive and do strange stuff are just Juggernauts that kill diversity in the gameplay. I'm looking for when people start to play a strategy game. When you do that you'll just roflstomp warhound. (Besides Warhound/scv train all in, that shit is strong). I don't think you completely understand what other people (mostly high level players) consider good design. | ||
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drbrown
Sweden442 Posts
On September 07 2012 05:25 Herect wrote: The Warhound doesn't have design flaws. Maybe, it's a bit overpowered now, but not in a design PoV. It's really strong in the early game, but it becomes weak as time passes on when AoE, FF, big ranged units come in to play (and doesn't have a exclusive upgrade like stim, range, speed, wtv) . It's big, so it' pretty useless on Choke points. And in open field they can be easily flanked. It's extremely easy to tech to, it's cheap as hell, has lots of HP, moves quickly, has pretty damn good range, decent damage, a special attack and only takes up 2 supply. It's also durable vs AoE due to it's size. The ONLY downside to this unit is it's inability to shoot up. The TvT matchup revolves pretty much completely around this unit, in TvP terrans are combining this unit with either hellions, vikings (both very cheap and easily mass produced) or both and steamrolling whatever they are up against. In TvZ it performs OK vs every ground unit, even against Ultralisks due to the Haywire missiles. I don't think T3 air units should be a requirement to battle a unit that requires a factory with a tech lab to produce. At this point in the game, the unit is simply too strong. | ||
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Herect
Brazil216 Posts
On September 07 2012 05:32 MarcH wrote: So i have read your post and I have to say I disagree with most of what you say but you really seem to have missed a few things given your first sentence. The warhound was touted as a unit to make Terran Mech play more viable and as a unit It wrecks Mech units making Standard Mech play not viable. How is that not a design flaw?. You're thinking too straight and just joining the bandwagon of blizzard hate. To make Tank play viable in TvP you need something on the factory to adress immortal hardened sheilds; The haywire missile is a ability that can bypass it. So Immortal just do not roflstomp Tank play. First of all, do you really think that pure warhound defeats Warhound + Tank just a-moving? The answer is big NO. Tanks have extra damage against armored. They melt warhounds. And Warhounds on Tank's side just serve as a meat sheild. The most magnificient thing about the Warhound. Its that is the first unit on Terran arsenal that just can't be A-moved to win. Zerg and Protoss have to Micro and use positional play. Terrible, terrible damage just don't work against them. You have to use AoE, abuse chokepoints, flank, etc. The blind counters are just too extreme. | ||
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MarcH
United Kingdom362 Posts
On September 07 2012 05:54 Herect wrote: You're thinking too straight and just joining the bandwagon of blizzard hate. To make Tank play viable in TvP you need something on the factory to adress immortal hardened sheilds; The haywire missile is a ability that can bypass it. So Immortal just do not roflstomp Tank play. First of all, do you really think that pure warhound defeats Warhound + Tank just a-moving? The answer is big NO. Tanks have extra damage against armored. They melt warhounds. And Warhounds on Tank's side just serve as a meat sheild. The most magnificient thing about the Warhound. Its that is the first unit on Terran arsenal that just can't be A-moved to win. Zerg and Protoss have to Micro and use positional play. Terrible, terrible damage just don't work against them. You have to use AoE, abuse chokepoints, flank, etc. The blind counters are just too extreme. Ok your officially trolling now and if by some chance you arent just go and watch ANY pro terran stream all they are doing is a-moving warhounds into race x and winning . | ||
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TORTOISE
United States515 Posts
If I worked on the Blizzard design team, i would change the hell out of the warhound. IMO it should be more similar to the funciton of a goliath. I was really happy to see the warhound have an anti air, but now that it has been changed the unit has become incredibly dull. A more perfect warhound would have the same anti mech properties but with a decent anti air (maybe splash). Another idea i'd like to propose would be modeling it after a japanese animu-style mech. Give that sucker a sword. Warhound now becomes a melee unit that deals splash. It could also have a Goliath style splashing anti-air in this re-imagining of the unit. | ||
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Herect
Brazil216 Posts
On September 07 2012 06:10 MarcH wrote: Ok your officially trolling now and if by some chance you arent just go and watch ANY pro terran stream all they are doing is a-moving warhounds into race x and winning . Well, i said it's strong on early game (probably OP), If that's a issue, and Blizzard will deal with it eventually. But, still, i'm really disapointed by the thought process of some pros. Gretorp, yesterday, was just raging and trying to Blind counter it. He was just getting ridiculous compositions and a-moving them. He was screaming to the chat "guys, what do i make to counter this shit"? Man, he really should think something like "what do i do, guys? How can i engage this shit?". Starcraft 2 isn't a Rock-Paper-Scissor game, fuck. First of all, Terrans really should rediscover the Tank. With Warhound support, the will be incredible. And second, Protosses and Terrans really should start playing more smartly. they really need to exploit the weakness of a pure Warhound army. In late game, they literally suck. AoE, flanks, swarmhosts, infestors, tempests, archons. They all do great in the late game. People should just begin to use it more smartly. | ||
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NeonFox
2373 Posts
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Rovskagg
Sweden46 Posts
On September 07 2012 07:26 NeonFox wrote: Watching Demuslim right now and he is just killing everyone by doing a one-base 2 factory warhound allin. Zerg seems to be able to survive with mass ling and terran with more warhounds, but protoss is getting destroyed so hard it's unbelievable. That unit is complete bullshit. Yeah, he even get the biggest mannerd guy ever (White-Ra) a bit flamed :D Obvs its op but we all know blizz will nerph it before realese so no prob, just hate the look also, designe is AWEFULL! Running like some stupid hippie | ||
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Kireak
Sweden358 Posts
Behold the Warhound, but opps, instead of having an AA attack it destroys everything on the ground. Where did it all go wrong? :/ | ||
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