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On September 07 2012 08:45 Kireak wrote:
So Blizzard wanted an AA unit that was more flexible then the Thor so that it could more easiliy move around and defend.
Behold the Warhound, but opps, instead of having an AA attack it destroys everything on the ground.
Where did it all go wrong? :/
they were too scared to just make goliaths
so they made these retarded wanna be PoS goliaths
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What i gather from a lot of professional streams is that the Warhound has become the crutch of most of the match-ups due to it's cheap cost, low supply, fast movement and repairability paired with it's tough damage. I was watching a TvT between DeMusliM and Ourk where Ourk was fundamentally ahead; more workers, more factories, more Warhounds. The moment Ourk began to spend gas on Armories and Upgrades (instead of more factories and subsequently more Warhounds) he began to lose every fight and soon after, the game.
A problem arises where: If you devote your resources into factories in TvT, you can't match an army containing Warhounds without Warhounds yourself (Tanks are just too weak). This leads to a Warhound vs Warhound mid-game in TvT, much like primitive ZvZ Roach vs Roach battles.
The problem? As soon as you stop building Warhounds and factories, you're immediately behind without previously dealing significant damage. This is by no means game-breaking. Some players have started alternate strategies, for example Thorzain with his typical MMM push vs a Warhound composition. It deals with it well and is very potent if your opponent isn't careful.
What I wonder is: What if the Warhounds base attack was reduced, with its Anti-mech missile remaining the same, to make the Warhound more upgrade dependant? It would still allow Warhounds to be exceptional against Mechanical units but have a hard time with non-mechanical, muscular unit compositions, would it not?
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On September 07 2012 09:09 SC_Ghost wrote:
What i gather from a lot of professional streams is that the Warhound has become the crutch of most of the match-ups due to it's cheap cost, low supply, fast movement and repairability paired with it's tough damage. I was watching a TvT between DeMusliM and Ourk where Ourk was fundamentally ahead; more workers, more factories, more Warhounds. The moment Ourk began to spend gas on Armories and Upgrades (instead of more factories and subsequently more Warhounds) he began to lose every fight and soon after, the game.
A problem arises where: If you devote your resources into factories in TvT, you can't match an army containing Warhounds without Warhounds yourself (Tanks are just too weak). This leads to a Warhound vs Warhound mid-game in TvT, much like primitive ZvZ Roach vs Roach battles.
The problem? As soon as you stop building Warhounds and factories, you're immediately behind without previously dealing significant damage. This is by no means game-breaking. Some players have started alternate strategies, for example Thorzain with his typical MMM push vs a Warhound composition. It deals with it well and is very potent if your opponent isn't careful.
What I wonder is: What if the Warhounds base attack was reduced, with its Anti-mech missile remaining the same, to make the Warhound more upgrade dependant? It would still allow Warhounds to be exceptional against Mechanical units but have a hard time with non-mechanical, muscular unit compositions, would it not?
They probably will nerf it. It is just too strong in the early game. They should reduce the normal attack and the speed. Make haywrie a upgrade instead of a natural ability.
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On September 07 2012 09:32 Herect wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 09:09 SC_Ghost wrote:
What i gather from a lot of professional streams is that the Warhound has become the crutch of most of the match-ups due to it's cheap cost, low supply, fast movement and repairability paired with it's tough damage. I was watching a TvT between DeMusliM and Ourk where Ourk was fundamentally ahead; more workers, more factories, more Warhounds. The moment Ourk began to spend gas on Armories and Upgrades (instead of more factories and subsequently more Warhounds) he began to lose every fight and soon after, the game.
A problem arises where: If you devote your resources into factories in TvT, you can't match an army containing Warhounds without Warhounds yourself (Tanks are just too weak). This leads to a Warhound vs Warhound mid-game in TvT, much like primitive ZvZ Roach vs Roach battles.
The problem? As soon as you stop building Warhounds and factories, you're immediately behind without previously dealing significant damage. This is by no means game-breaking. Some players have started alternate strategies, for example Thorzain with his typical MMM push vs a Warhound composition. It deals with it well and is very potent if your opponent isn't careful.
What I wonder is: What if the Warhounds base attack was reduced, with its Anti-mech missile remaining the same, to make the Warhound more upgrade dependant? It would still allow Warhounds to be exceptional against Mechanical units but have a hard time with non-mechanical, muscular unit compositions, would it not? They probably will nerf it. It is just too strong in the early game. They should reduce the normal attack and the speed. Make haywrie a upgrade instead of a natural ability.
Warhound will be hit hard with the nerf bat first beta patch. So obviously OP
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On September 07 2012 04:50 RaZorwire wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 04:31 transcendent one wrote:
doesn't make warhound micro heavy though relatively speaking, you can kite zealots with roaches and still roaches are one of the most 1a friendly units in the game
I think the Warhound has a ton of micro potential, to be honest. Long range, slowly attack frequency but fast response, reasonably fast movement, useful for drop harass, etc. Mind you, I still don't think it seem like a very good unit since it doesn't actually NEED to micro in it's current state, but the micro POTENTIAL is there.  Either way, I still don't like how it acts right now. It removes most reasons for Terran to ever build tanks and makes mech gameplay very mobile and bio-like.
yeah it has potential, but not the good kind of potential. it doesn't have any interesting attribute or ability or concept. it just has better stats than other units therefore it can be abused.
focus fire/kite can be used by any unit in the game with ranged attack. not the good kind of micro potential for a new unit. and yeah especially not for an unit that you'll mass cuz its stats are so good
i hate it i hope it gets removed. there is absolutely nothing original about this unit.
on the other hand i watched babyknight's stream and realized that swarm hosts are even more retarded stat wise. 2 locusts do almost 40 dps wtf... one locust beats a stalker 1vs1 WTF
seriously stalkers are only good for anything in pvp now in the beta, or strictly for anti air
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On September 07 2012 09:09 SC_Ghost wrote:
Some players have started alternate strategies, for example Thorzain with his typical MMM push vs a Warhound composition. It deals with it well and is very potent if your opponent isn't careful.
tbh it doesnt deal with it well at all, thorzain was just outclassing everyone by miles.
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On September 07 2012 07:37 Rovskagg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 07:26 NeonFox wrote:
Watching Demuslim right now and he is just killing everyone by doing a one-base 2 factory warhound allin. Zerg seems to be able to survive with mass ling and terran with more warhounds, but protoss is getting destroyed so hard it's unbelievable. That unit is complete bullshit. Yeah, he even get the biggest mannerd guy ever (White-Ra) a bit flamed :D Obvs its op but we all know blizz will nerph it before realese so no prob, just hate the look also, designe is AWEFULL! Running like some stupid hippie
I watched that too, during multiple games x.x The roflhounds look insanely strong- certainly the unit most in need of an immediate patch.
Yesterday I did see BabyKnight go blind, super fast void rays and they did hold off the initial roflhound push (but then I think he lost to roflhounds + marines after that).
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It's exactly what terran needed. T v T can take 2-3 times as long as other matchups due to siege tank lines. Terran had absolutely no counter to siege tanks, other than making siege tanks.. the whole t v t matchup was just tank vs tank and whoever loses patience first loses, now terran finally has a counter to siege and a unit that you can a-move like the other 2 races have.
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i have an idea to fix this shit: remove warhound and make mine do bonus damage against mechanincal let's say base 120+80 bonus and increase also the splash damage to 80 at least, keep the other stats the same
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Why did they have to make it so big? Granted, it is still beta but look at every other new unit they put in, the model size is really big compared to some other stuff and I think that is really ugly, but the Warhound looks worse of course because it looks like a huge box. Did they make the stuff big so it is easier for noobs to click on them or what?
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On September 07 2012 16:34 Garmer wrote:
i have an idea to fix this shit: remove warhound and make mine do bonus damage against mechanincal let's say base 120+80 bonus and increase also the splash damage to 80 at least, keep the other stats the same
Considering that the Warhound was implemented to give meching players a mobile alternative to tank lines in TvT and an alternative to bio in TvP, I don't really see how giving an immobile/short range unit an ungodly damage boost would solve either of those.
I'd rather they did something along these lines:
Reduce attack range by 1
Increase attack interval by somewhere between .3 to .5
And either increasing supply by 1 or Reducing health by 20-45 ish
Oh, and the model size is grossly large, I wouldn't mind if they reduced the model size while maintaining the same pathing size.
Would ultimately make it a little less effective against everything while still capable of outranging and 2-shotting marines, and still capable against tanks.
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On September 07 2012 08:52 aRyuujin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 08:45 Kireak wrote:
So Blizzard wanted an AA unit that was more flexible then the Thor so that it could more easiliy move around and defend.
Behold the Warhound, but opps, instead of having an AA attack it destroys everything on the ground.
Where did it all go wrong? :/ they were too scared to just make goliaths so they made these retarded wanna be PoS goliaths
They like taking basic units and splitting it into two separate units. Dragoon -> Immortal/Stalker. Goliath -> Warhound/Thor. I think it doesn't work out so well for Terran because they already have a dedicated GtG mech, the Seige Tank.
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It's funny how some people think they already figured out HoTS in 2-3 days and know what's balanced and what's not.
The fact is, people need to rethink their build-order.
All of them. And in depth.
Using pretty much the same bo with slight variations in the expansions than in War3:ROC or Starcraft vanilla would also have been a freelose.
I hope Blizzard don't implement any patch before at least 2-3 weeks.
I remember in the early day of Wol when people believed Zerg had no lategame army, that forcefields were super-imba, that marauders push were unbeatable and so on...
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i think warhounds should also break forcefield so we dont need any other unit/bo than marine warhound. and replace the terran theme with gundam theme
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Some brave P needs to make an all void ray/phoenix army to fight the evil warhounds!
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On September 07 2012 17:05 RancidTurnip wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 16:34 Garmer wrote:
i have an idea to fix this shit: remove warhound and make mine do bonus damage against mechanincal let's say base 120+80 bonus and increase also the splash damage to 80 at least, keep the other stats the same Considering that the Warhound was implemented to give meching players a mobile alternative to tank lines in TvT and an alternative to bio in TvP, I don't really see how giving an immobile/short range unit an ungodly damage boost would solve either of those. I'd rather they did something along these lines: Reduce attack range by 1 Increase attack interval by somewhere between .3 to .5 And either increasing supply by 1 or Reducing health by 20-45 ish Oh, and the model size is grossly large, I wouldn't mind if they reduced the model size while maintaining the same pathing size. Would ultimately make it a little less effective against everything while still capable of outranging and 2-shotting marines, and still capable against tanks.
mobile alternative is bio, don't need to make mech style the same as bio style, if you like mobile units just play bio, mech should be about positional play imho
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It is so funny to read at all the protoss/zergs that happily amoved for like a couple of years and now are crying like babies: "Omfg! No you cannot amove! I have to amove with my zealots/lings!!! Imba!Imba!!!1!!1!111!!!"
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On September 07 2012 19:37 Gantritor wrote:
It is so funny to read at all the protoss/zergs that happily amoved for like a couple of years and now are crying like babies: "Omfg! No you cannot amove! I have to amove with my zealots/lings!!! Imba!Imba!!!1!!1!111!!!" In fact they actually aren't that bad from balance perspective. But I can't watch any terran stream like that. Just massing warhounds in every matchup isn't fun to watch.
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On September 07 2012 19:37 Gantritor wrote:
It is so funny to read at all the protoss/zergs that happily amoved for like a couple of years and now are crying like babies: "Omfg! No you cannot amove! I have to amove with my zealots/lings!!! Imba!Imba!!!1!!1!111!!!"
Now you know, how P/Z felt after the first full year of WoL. This experience will make you a better person and poster hopefully.
Yo microbeast, have you ever played the other races? I bet playing toss would push you straight to GM because it's so unbelievably easy...
Btt: Of course all the matchups and builds will develop, but anyone believing the Warhound will stay in its current state is delusional imo.
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On September 07 2012 19:37 Gantritor wrote:
It is so funny to read at all the protoss/zergs that happily amoved for like a couple of years and now are crying like babies: "Omfg! No you cannot amove! I have to amove with my zealots/lings!!! Imba!Imba!!!1!!1!111!!!"
it's just too sad that when I read the most retarded comment in a thread I know that if I lift my eyes to the location of the poster it's my country
please shoot me in the face
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EPT
