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##FoS Jhuyt
First I want to point out that Jhyut only has 9 posts, and has not posted in the last 24 hours. That's not damming evidence but it is pretty shady. I'm going to quote his posts and bold the parts I want to talk about. I'd like to hear what everyone else thinks of how I'm interpreting his posts because I may just be biased against him because of his low post count.
His first post:
On August 15 2012 19:36 Jhuyt wrote:
Ok, after catching up on all the posts I can make my first one: Hi everybody, I have yet to play any games of forum mafia but I've played it a lot on SC 2 and even more IRL.
My experience from other mafia games is that the first day is a dead day and accusations made on the first day rarely holds any water.
Despite that I think that Shady's case against YH is good, he's very inconsistent which in my experience is how unexperienced scum behaves.
I'm sorry, but I don't think I can be of any more use until new evidence is posted.
"My experience from other mafia games is that the first day is a dead day and accusations made on the first day rarely holds any water." This is a reasonable thing to say, but he did not follow it up with something along the lines of "therefore I think we should focus on x." He mentions that the first day accusations are worthless but he doesn't offer any kind of scumhunting plan.
"I'm sorry, but I don't think I can be of any more use until new evidence is posted." Again, this could be something that town jhuyt would say but when you look at how he dismisses the possibility of scumhunting without giving an alternative... his first post looks very suspicious.
On August 15 2012 20:18 Jhuyt wrote:
Hmm, you're right, I should try to be more helpful.
On Solar: This is just how he is in general from what I've seen on TL, so I don't have anything there.
On Shady: Shady tries to control the game, which is an act that I don't often see in normal townies, I've most often encountered it when a scum tries to make everybody think he's the sheriff. It is, however, a game of high risk and relies heavily on the actual sheriff being useless. He might be the sheriff as well, and this is why I think the first day is kinda silly, I don't know what to think solely based on his posts, they seem consistent.
I still think that YourHarry is something scummy simply because his posting behavior is strange, on everybody else, I need more evidence before making up my mind.
He starts off the post by admitting that his first post wasn't very helpful, but then everything he writes afterwards is exactly in line with the kind of stuff he wrote in his first post. "first day is kinda silly, I don't know what to think" and "I need more evidence before making up my mind."
On August 16 2012 22:35 Jhuyt wrote:
I'm currently at page 15 reading, I haven't been on the computer for ~15 hours so I have a lot to catch up on, I will share my thoughts asap
This post gives off a null read, but I'm quoting it because nothing was said it effectively lowers his post count from 9 to 8.
On August 17 2012 00:07 Jhuyt wrote:
Initial thoughts on the whole Thrawn and Och thing:
Looking through Och's posts about Arch I can't say that they make much sense, he just goes straight after Arch when he hadn't posted anything suspicious in my book. I can only see two reasons for him to do it.
1. He really thinks that Arch is scum for reasons that I can not grasp.
If this is true I don't Och is a townie and Thrawn is scum.
The reason I think this makes Thrawn scum is because he would have just saw a guy going after another and then he followed suit, like scum usually do in my experience.
This is however very unlikely in my opinion, because why wouldn't he go after me who already have suspisions on me?
for this reason, I don't think that Och is townie and Thrawn is scum
2. They are both scum and they decided to single out a guy
This makes sense as to why they would both go on Arch when no one else is doing it, they tried both to be convincing to
get as many people as possible with them and lynch Arch.
This still leaves the question why they didn't go after me instead Arch with suspicions already on me.
While this might not be the strongest of evidence I do think that it's very likely that Thrawn is scum and therefore I will FoS him.
##FoS thrawn2112
This post is the most scumhunting he's done so far, and I'm suspicious of it because of the nature of the post and the last line. He gives some hypothetical scum reads based on information he didn't have (the alignment of ochrow/thrawn.) And then he concludes the post by admitting his post was weak ("While this might not be the strongest of evidence") but then follows that up with ("I do think that it's very likely that Thrawn is scum")
On August 17 2012 02:39 Jhuyt wrote:
Thrawn, I have one question for you which I feel you haven't sufficently answered: What made you feel like Arch was more scummy than Me, Stutter, Golbat or the other lurkers up until the point you decided that Arch was the scummiest?
I'm getting a null/slightly town read from this post because he is actively investigating his scumhunting case against me.
On August 17 2012 04:20 Jhuyt wrote:Show nested quote +The lurkers before that post were gobalt, archrun, jhyut, ochrow, and stutters.
Gobalt had accused me of being scummy, and had expressed belief in solar's innocence during the troll posts
Jhyut made the comment about his outside experience with solar and he softly accused yh of being scummy
Ochrow said he thought solar was town and that shady had read too much into solar's posts
Stutters did not think that shady was right. Stuters didnt think that solar's post was intended as a soft accusaton of stutter's post
Archrun avoided making any reads at all, he was the only lurker to do this and therefore he was my most suspected lurker. Ok, now I know your motivation for Archrun and reading the post by mkfuba07 I don't think you're as scummy anymore. There went my entire thought process of this day, yippie.The more I think of it the more I find that either Shady or Thrawn is scum. But since my basis of suspicion against Thrawn is basically gone I really can't vote for him. I think this post + Show Spoiler +On August 17 2012 03:30 mkfuba07 wrote:Trying to get into school is running me ragged, so this will be my only post for the moment. If anyone has specific questions they'd like me to answer, let me know so I can get to those as soon as possible (preferably before the lynch). Since Thrawn seems to be quite the target, I'm going to post my thoughts on him: 1) The SK posts seemed a bit suspicious, but when I read them I got a rather null read. I was obsing a game recently (my apologies for not knowing the exact game name) where it seemed like the entire first 24 hours was spent discussing what a theoretical Tracker should do if he even existed in the game. Asking a question of the more experienced players regarding SKs, and giving his own point of view, doesn't send off any major alarms in my head. He dropped the issue immediately after people said that they basically agreed with him, and he hasn't personally brought them up ever since. 2) Regarding his actions in the Solar issue, I tended to agree with him along the way. Show nested quote +I'm not sure I'm getting why you think this is scummy, could you explain? His posts since that point are what caused me to be suspicious of him, but I never quite understood the reasoning behind your initial interrogation. This quote appears to summarize his thought process quite nicely, and since it was exactly the same as my thoughts I actually got a slight townie read after it. He was suspicious at the right times, and when something didn't make sense he questioned the reasoning of whoever raised that point. 3) Show nested quote +At this point I think YH's alliance hinges on whether or not you believe his story about suspecting solar and gk of being masons. At one point in the game I was willing to indulge the thought that YH and solar were masons based off a weak read I was making, (the extra information YH was hinting at) so it is easy for me to believe that YH did the same. YH, for now I believe your story and do not think either you or solar are scum. This quote makes me lean townie as well. Though I have stated that I didn't agree with the original argument behind YH's reads on solar/GK, Thrawn again comes to the same conclusion as me: that the entire case comes down to that single "Sigh..." comment. Though I was (and still am) suspicious of YH after that case, Thrawn's disagreement over this doesn't reveal alignment to me. The way he's thinking things through is very similar to how I did during my only previous vanilla townie game. 4) The whole Z-Boson/Ochrow situation also has me leaning town. During that entire situation, Thrawn makes efforts to alleviate the confusion that's been caused by Z-Boson's misread, when he could have just sat back and let the misunderstanding grow out of control (especially seeing how readily people in this game have been jumping on single posts to make full cases). With this, I have a firm townie read on Thrawn. 5) I don't see any real evidence of Thrawn and Ochrow coordinating their posts. The entire thing feels contrived to me. This makes me feel that this bandwagon that's started on Thrawn is at least partially supported by scums. This, in turn, gives me an even stronger townie read on Thrawn. 6) His subsequent suspicion of Shady is completely valid in my eyes. If Thrawn is town, then as he's pointed out, the only information he can be 100% sure of is his own alignment. Since he knows he's town, he has a right to be suspicious of someone so zealously pursuing lynching him. His vote isn't instantly OMGUS just because Shady voted for him before. Thrawn has actual reasons for being suspicious, and Shady hasn't, even in my eyes, done a good job of addressing them. Thrawn has been tunneled pretty hard for one of the first cases to have any significant reasoning behind it (the one against Archrun), and I find that incredibly suspicious. While most other players are making cases based on such huge stretches that I find it hard to believe they came to the conclusions they did, Thrawn is being hit hard for providing a case that was based entirely within the context of the thread itself. In short, I truly think that a lynch on Thrawn would be a mislynch. I have some reads on other people that I will try to get up as soon as possible, but I have to leave to take care of school issues right now, and don't want to post half-assed theories without being able to clarify them right away. I will say that I am likely to support a relative lurker lynch, especially given that most of the discussion has been about a player who I've made it clear I have pretty strong town reads on. I have to go for the next couple of hours so I won't be here for the conclusion of the day, see ya later.
First he says how he has changed his read on me, and no longer thinks I am as scummy as he thought. Then he presents the idea that "either Shady or Thrawn is scum." He decides to vote for shady, because "Thrawn's reason to accuse Arch is enough for me too consider Shady as scum." I don't think that's a good reason for him to consider shady scum. My being town is not something town players would know, and that was the basis for why I voted on Shady. (in retrospect that was very poor play by me) Jhuyt says that because he believes my reason for accusing Archrun was good so that makes Shady scum, in other words he is saying "I am accepting thrawn's defense of himself therefore shady is scum." I don't think that is a conclusion a town player would or should make. I think a lot of other town players reached that conclusion as well, but after him making the "either thrawn scum of shady scum" suggestion it looks VERY scummy.
On August 18 2012 10:31 Jhuyt wrote:On the case on YourHarry: I have a really hard time following YH's posts, but he seems Scummy to me mainly because of the way he flip-flops between who he finds suspicious from the outset of the game, which is a very strange behaviour. Now this part might be because I have a hard time following his train of thought, but he uses GK's "sigh..." in + Show Spoiler + this post as proof that he is both town and scum on two different occasions. The first one in this post: Show nested quote +GK's post struck me as strange because it made it sound like he knew Solar's alignment. He even starts the post with a "Sigh..." as if the town has been going in the wrong direction. My first suspicion was that they are scums together, but I don't think scums support each other this obviously and directly. GK using such wordings would strongly incriminate him if Solar ever flips scum. Thus, I thought this possibility is not likely. The second on in this post: Show nested quote +I mean, he sighs! You may laugh and say this is trivial, but to me this is an indication of certainty that everyone else who has been suspecting Solar is wrong and he somehow has this knowledge and disapproves.
Then he asks me why I find Solar townie. And exactly 3 minutes later, when I explain to him why I thought Solar was a mason, in this encryptive post that I thought he would understand if he was a mason:
Another thing I think is really weird is how he suddenly goes after Archrun when he says that "if Shady is town then Thrawn is scum and vice versa" and suddenly decides that Archrun is the scummiest player around. The weird thing is that he right before that thinks that Shady is the scummiest read he has but his case against him isn't too strong, but he seems to not use that fact that Shady tries to do a sheep move with his "Everybody let's just vote for Thrawn" line. This should have strengthened his case against him but for some unknown reason he just drops the case entirely for the while. This behaviour is really weird as it is, but if you continue to consider the Darthpunk's idea that he's scum with Thrawn his sudden switch back to vote for Shady makes a whole lot of sense too. Those are my thought's on YH's case for the moment, right now I need to go to bed.
He continues scumhunting, but he never commits to a read and a lot of his statements are hypotheticals dealing with alignments on players that haven't flipped yet. Not much substance to that post.
On August 18 2012 20:00 Jhuyt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 16:03 thrawn2112 wrote:
Darthpunk, you have been twisting everything I've said to you into more reasons why I'm scum, and for that I'm going to be looking closely at your filter. It seems like you're less interested in seeing what I have to say and more interested in convincing town I'm scum regardless of my arguments. Goodkarma on the other hand even asked me to defend myself. I can sense sincerity in his motivations but you just seem focused on interpreting everything I say as evidence against me.
@goodkarma
dont worry it's coming I want to say that I had the exact same reaction to Show nested quote +You are right that there is no evidence in either direction to prove or disprove my vig claim. I only vig claimed to give an explanation as to how things could have worked out the way they did if I am town. as he had, simply because from my experience that is the easiest way for a scum to reveal himself. I guess it could also be because you suddenly thought you should write as if you had not claimed you're vigi. From either scum or town perspective that's a really dumb idea because it is, like I have written, a very common scumslip. Right now I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt because I think that it is more urgent for us to lynch YH because of his flip-floppy ways and long posts with almost no content.
I've already called him out on this post. He is giving me "the benefit of the doubt" because he wants to lynch yourharry? That's not something a town player would do. He defends that statement in his last post:
On August 18 2012 21:11 Jhuyt wrote:When I looked at the case GK made in this post I got the feeling that you might be scum, but I wasn't sure. When I couple that with your scumslip it makes more sense that he's right and therefore I think you're scum. The benefit of the doubt line was one that I was considering to cut out of the post because it doesn't add anything and I'm pretty sure I misused the expression.I should have said that while I do think you're scum I think that YH's behaviour is way scummier and so much more anti-town that a lynch on him is necessary so that we can have a clearer discussion.
That's a reasonable defense if you think that such a misuse of that phrase is likely but I don't think it is. He apologizes for posting it instead of just admitting it was a mistake which IMO is scummy.
The last part, "YH's behaviour is way scummier and so much more anti-town that a lynch on him is necessary so that we can have a clearer discussion" gives off a town feeling to it.
In summary his posts rarely give off a town read. He often states how useless his opinions are and his scumhunting is mostly based off of hypothetical scenarios containing information a town player wouldn't have. For that I want to issue a very strong FOS against Jhuyt.
@Obvious: I just saw your post about gk and will post my response to it soon.
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On August 20 2012 00:00 Obvious.660 wrote:Goodkarma is at the top of my suspects list right now. + Show Spoiler [the most ridiculous thing ever] +On August 18 2012 10:32 goodkarma wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 10:16 thrawn2112 wrote:-snip- Mkfuba made it very clear that he thought I was town, and he also voted against shady. According to the reasoning that darthpunk was using before the night post, shouldn't darthpunk also have thought mkfuba was scum? Nothing was said about mkfuba, and he was killed during the night cycle. Mkfuba wrote out the longest and strongest defense of me, and he is the one who got killed during the night. Why wasn't Archrun the one the mafia killed? Because I killed him with my 1 bullet received from my being Town Vigilante. It was completely reasonable for me to do that from a town thrawn perspective. I was already suspicious of Archrun because of his first few posts. I thought since before the lnych that there was a scum mission to get me lynched. Archrun was one of the first people to vote thrawn. Before the vote ended he stated that if shady is town, then thrawn should be lynched. After the lynch I began to focus on him, and he never replied to my posts. Killing him ended up being the wrong decision, but it was clearly in line with what my past reads on Archrun were. On August 18 2012 10:03 DarthPunk wrote:
Your Harry made an entire case about you being town which was based on Archrun being scum.
Shady had a scum read on you. Dead. Confirmed town.
Archrun had a scum read on you. Dead. Confirmed town.
Mkfuba07 had a scum read on Your Harry. Dead. Confirmed town. Mkfuba may have had a scum read on yourharry, but he VOTED for shady (who I voted for) and VERY STRONGLY defended me. He was killed, and flipped town. Why would I as scum thrawn kill mkfuba who was the strongest defender of me being town? Okay. So thrawn just claimed Vigilante. Guess what? That puts him in an even worse spot. Because if he were to look at my case against him, there is pretty strong evidence that him and Ochrow share a QT. Meaning that if they're not masons, they are scum. @thrawn: Thanks for clearing up that you're not a mason  . ##Vote: thrawn2112And, I've already said it once, but I'll say it again: ##FoS: Ochrow##FoS: YourHarryI'd be happy to see any of them lynched as I'm certain they're all scum. I'm just trying to wrap my head around this post, so bear with me. GK is convinced that Thrawn and Ochrow (now me) are of the same alignment. If we're not mason buddies, then we're scum together, and one of those scums is a vigilante? Is anyone else seeing how this is the most ridiculous claim ever? If we are backing up to question ourselves: "Is Thrawn actually a vigilante?" then I have something to say regarding that. It's a lot easier to prove you're a vigilante if you make a believable breadcrumb that when revealed shows you haven't lied, but we're in a pickle as far as that's concerned because all we seem to have is a weak breadcrumb and Thrawn's word that he is a vig and spent his one shot last night. On top of that, GK is CERTAIN of my alignment as scum. It seems that he knows more about me than I do, and I suggest everyone take a good hard look at GK today and see if you can agree that he's being pretty scummy here. ##VOTE: goodkarma
Are you saying that goodkarma thought that I was a vig and that I was scum? I didn't get that from gk's post. Actually gk seemed to completely distrust my vig claim. I don't think I understand your argument...could you explain it again?
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##Unvote
The "original ochrow" isn't here to defend himself and I need to hear more from Obvious before getting a read on him. I want to hear more from Obvious about his reads, and I absolutely need to hear from jhuyt.
Lurkers gonna lurk......the longer you (jhuyt gobalt solar) lurk the more closely I'm going to be looking at your filters.
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ok, I found something in Harry's filter, it isn't much but I thought it was kind of interesting.
On August 15 2012 12:48 YourHarry wrote:
I will explain later, or maybe it will sort itself out.
FOS Following people still have not posted:
Golbat
Jhuyt
Z-BosoN
Ochrow
In this post he was very clear with whom had not yet posted, so I assume he made the effort to look through the filters and found us.
later on he says this:
As to why I did not call out Ochrow: I was not even aware of it. How many times did I call lurkers out - I did not make sure that I got every single lurkers out. In fact, I thought in one of the list, I copied lurker list provided by previous poster and eliminated names who posted since then. I simply missed him for some reason...
Here he claims that he did not try to find everybody, so he lied, or forgot about it, I'd say he lied.
This is the problem with YourHarry, he makes posts that consist of nothing and he makes claims he immediatly retract. It doesn't matter if you're scum or town, this is just bad play on all parts and super anti-town.
For this I'm going to vote for YourHarry
##Vote: YourHarry
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On August 20 2012 00:17 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 00:00 Obvious.660 wrote:Goodkarma is at the top of my suspects list right now. + Show Spoiler [the most ridiculous thing ever] +On August 18 2012 10:32 goodkarma wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 10:16 thrawn2112 wrote:-snip- Mkfuba made it very clear that he thought I was town, and he also voted against shady. According to the reasoning that darthpunk was using before the night post, shouldn't darthpunk also have thought mkfuba was scum? Nothing was said about mkfuba, and he was killed during the night cycle. Mkfuba wrote out the longest and strongest defense of me, and he is the one who got killed during the night. Why wasn't Archrun the one the mafia killed? Because I killed him with my 1 bullet received from my being Town Vigilante. It was completely reasonable for me to do that from a town thrawn perspective. I was already suspicious of Archrun because of his first few posts. I thought since before the lnych that there was a scum mission to get me lynched. Archrun was one of the first people to vote thrawn. Before the vote ended he stated that if shady is town, then thrawn should be lynched. After the lynch I began to focus on him, and he never replied to my posts. Killing him ended up being the wrong decision, but it was clearly in line with what my past reads on Archrun were. On August 18 2012 10:03 DarthPunk wrote:
Your Harry made an entire case about you being town which was based on Archrun being scum.
Shady had a scum read on you. Dead. Confirmed town.
Archrun had a scum read on you. Dead. Confirmed town.
Mkfuba07 had a scum read on Your Harry. Dead. Confirmed town. Mkfuba may have had a scum read on yourharry, but he VOTED for shady (who I voted for) and VERY STRONGLY defended me. He was killed, and flipped town. Why would I as scum thrawn kill mkfuba who was the strongest defender of me being town? Okay. So thrawn just claimed Vigilante. Guess what? That puts him in an even worse spot. Because if he were to look at my case against him, there is pretty strong evidence that him and Ochrow share a QT. Meaning that if they're not masons, they are scum. @thrawn: Thanks for clearing up that you're not a mason . ##Vote: thrawn2112And, I've already said it once, but I'll say it again: ##FoS: Ochrow##FoS: YourHarryI'd be happy to see any of them lynched as I'm certain they're all scum. I'm just trying to wrap my head around this post, so bear with me. GK is convinced that Thrawn and Ochrow (now me) are of the same alignment. If we're not mason buddies, then we're scum together, and one of those scums is a vigilante? Is anyone else seeing how this is the most ridiculous claim ever? If we are backing up to question ourselves: "Is Thrawn actually a vigilante?" then I have something to say regarding that. It's a lot easier to prove you're a vigilante if you make a believable breadcrumb that when revealed shows you haven't lied, but we're in a pickle as far as that's concerned because all we seem to have is a weak breadcrumb and Thrawn's word that he is a vig and spent his one shot last night. On top of that, GK is CERTAIN of my alignment as scum. It seems that he knows more about me than I do, and I suggest everyone take a good hard look at GK today and see if you can agree that he's being pretty scummy here. ##VOTE: goodkarma Are you saying that goodkarma thought that I was a vig and that I was scum? I didn't get that from gk's post. Actually gk seemed to completely distrust my vig claim. I don't think I understand your argument...could you explain it again?
The short answer, since I have to leave for a few hours, is:
What possible motivation is there for putting two people I am confident are town on the same list and claiming with absolute certainty that they are all scum. The only answer is: it comes from someone who knows their alignments. Scum motivation.
Notice how a mislynch on me can be cast aside as "he was a lurker anyway" among the other points brought up against Ochrow. Notice how a mislynch on you can be cast aside as "his vig claim wasn't strong enough and his breadcrumb was weak so we had no reason to believe him anyway". Goodkarma has a history of policy talk that really gets the town no where, followed up by going after lurkers.
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Could we get a vote count?
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@Thrawn:
Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 04:20 Jhuyt wrote:The lurkers before that post were gobalt, archrun, jhyut, ochrow, and stutters.
Gobalt had accused me of being scummy, and had expressed belief in solar's innocence during the troll posts
Jhyut made the comment about his outside experience with solar and he softly accused yh of being scummy
Ochrow said he thought solar was town and that shady had read too much into solar's posts
Stutters did not think that shady was right. Stuters didnt think that solar's post was intended as a soft accusaton of stutter's post
Archrun avoided making any reads at all, he was the only lurker to do this and therefore he was my most suspected lurker. Ok, now I know your motivation for Archrun and reading the post by mkfuba07 I don't think you're as scummy anymore. There went my entire thought process of this day, yippie.The more I think of it the more I find that either Shady or Thrawn is scum. But since my basis of suspicion against Thrawn is basically gone I really can't vote for him. I think this post + Show Spoiler +On August 17 2012 03:30 mkfuba07 wrote:Trying to get into school is running me ragged, so this will be my only post for the moment. If anyone has specific questions they'd like me to answer, let me know so I can get to those as soon as possible (preferably before the lynch). Since Thrawn seems to be quite the target, I'm going to post my thoughts on him: 1) The SK posts seemed a bit suspicious, but when I read them I got a rather null read. I was obsing a game recently (my apologies for not knowing the exact game name) where it seemed like the entire first 24 hours was spent discussing what a theoretical Tracker should do if he even existed in the game. Asking a question of the more experienced players regarding SKs, and giving his own point of view, doesn't send off any major alarms in my head. He dropped the issue immediately after people said that they basically agreed with him, and he hasn't personally brought them up ever since. 2) Regarding his actions in the Solar issue, I tended to agree with him along the way. Show nested quote +I'm not sure I'm getting why you think this is scummy, could you explain? His posts since that point are what caused me to be suspicious of him, but I never quite understood the reasoning behind your initial interrogation. This quote appears to summarize his thought process quite nicely, and since it was exactly the same as my thoughts I actually got a slight townie read after it. He was suspicious at the right times, and when something didn't make sense he questioned the reasoning of whoever raised that point. 3) Show nested quote +At this point I think YH's alliance hinges on whether or not you believe his story about suspecting solar and gk of being masons. At one point in the game I was willing to indulge the thought that YH and solar were masons based off a weak read I was making, (the extra information YH was hinting at) so it is easy for me to believe that YH did the same. YH, for now I believe your story and do not think either you or solar are scum. This quote makes me lean townie as well. Though I have stated that I didn't agree with the original argument behind YH's reads on solar/GK, Thrawn again comes to the same conclusion as me: that the entire case comes down to that single "Sigh..." comment. Though I was (and still am) suspicious of YH after that case, Thrawn's disagreement over this doesn't reveal alignment to me. The way he's thinking things through is very similar to how I did during my only previous vanilla townie game. 4) The whole Z-Boson/Ochrow situation also has me leaning town. During that entire situation, Thrawn makes efforts to alleviate the confusion that's been caused by Z-Boson's misread, when he could have just sat back and let the misunderstanding grow out of control (especially seeing how readily people in this game have been jumping on single posts to make full cases). With this, I have a firm townie read on Thrawn. 5) I don't see any real evidence of Thrawn and Ochrow coordinating their posts. The entire thing feels contrived to me. This makes me feel that this bandwagon that's started on Thrawn is at least partially supported by scums. This, in turn, gives me an even stronger townie read on Thrawn. 6) His subsequent suspicion of Shady is completely valid in my eyes. If Thrawn is town, then as he's pointed out, the only information he can be 100% sure of is his own alignment. Since he knows he's town, he has a right to be suspicious of someone so zealously pursuing lynching him. His vote isn't instantly OMGUS just because Shady voted for him before. Thrawn has actual reasons for being suspicious, and Shady hasn't, even in my eyes, done a good job of addressing them. Thrawn has been tunneled pretty hard for one of the first cases to have any significant reasoning behind it (the one against Archrun), and I find that incredibly suspicious. While most other players are making cases based on such huge stretches that I find it hard to believe they came to the conclusions they did, Thrawn is being hit hard for providing a case that was based entirely within the context of the thread itself. In short, I truly think that a lynch on Thrawn would be a mislynch. I have some reads on other people that I will try to get up as soon as possible, but I have to leave to take care of school issues right now, and don't want to post half-assed theories without being able to clarify them right away. I will say that I am likely to support a relative lurker lynch, especially given that most of the discussion has been about a player who I've made it clear I have pretty strong town reads on. I have to go for the next couple of hours so I won't be here for the conclusion of the day, see ya later. First he says how he has changed his read on me, and no longer thinks I am as scummy as he thought. Then he presents the idea that "either Shady or Thrawn is scum." He decides to vote for shady, because "Thrawn's reason to accuse Arch is enough for me too consider Shady as scum." I don't think that's a good reason for him to consider shady scum. My being town is not something town players would know, and that was the basis for why I voted on Shady. (in retrospect that was very poor play by me) Jhuyt says that because he believes my reason for accusing Archrun was good so that makes Shady scum, in other words he is saying "I am accepting thrawn's defense of himself therefore shady is scum." I don't think that is a conclusion a town player would or should make. I think a lot of other town players reached that conclusion as well, but after him making the "either thrawn scum of shady scum" suggestion it looks VERY scummy.
Yep, it looks like your explanation of archrun was the only reason why I chose to vote for Shady, but you fail to notice that I thought his behaviour was a way for the mafia to play from what I've seen
On August 15 2012 20:18 Jhuyt wrote:
Hmm, you're right, I should try to be more helpful.
On Solar: This is just how he is in general from what I've seen on TL, so I don't have anything there.
On Shady: Shady tries to control the game, which is an act that I don't often see in normal townies, I've most often encountered it when a scum tries to make everybody think he's the sheriff. It is, however, a game of high risk and relies heavily on the actual sheriff being useless. He might be the sheriff as well, and this is why I think the first day is kinda silly, I don't know what to think solely based on his posts, they seem consistent.
I still think that YourHarry is something scummy simply because his posting behavior is strange, on everybody else, I need more evidence before making up my mind.
My case on you were mostly based on the fact that I just couldn't see why you wanted to lynch Arch. When I realised why you did it, I suddenly had two hot candidates, that being you and Shady, and one less hot, being YH. I believed your defense was strong enough for you to go to the second place on my list, and therefore I voted for Shady.
As for the apology, I recognized it as a mistake and apologized for it, even if I didn't explicitly say it was a mistake.
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Vote count:
Thrawn2112 (4): Golbat, Solarsail, YourHarry, Z-BosoN
Obvious.660 (1): goodkarma
YourHarry (2): DarthPunk, Jhuyt
goodkarma (1): Obvious.660
No Vote: Stutters695, thrawn2112
thrawn2112 is currently set to be lynched. Just under 8 hours until the deadline.
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On August 20 2012 00:37 Obvious.660 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 00:17 thrawn2112 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:00 Obvious.660 wrote:Goodkarma is at the top of my suspects list right now. + Show Spoiler [the most ridiculous thing ever] +On August 18 2012 10:32 goodkarma wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 10:16 thrawn2112 wrote:-snip- Mkfuba made it very clear that he thought I was town, and he also voted against shady. According to the reasoning that darthpunk was using before the night post, shouldn't darthpunk also have thought mkfuba was scum? Nothing was said about mkfuba, and he was killed during the night cycle. Mkfuba wrote out the longest and strongest defense of me, and he is the one who got killed during the night. Why wasn't Archrun the one the mafia killed? Because I killed him with my 1 bullet received from my being Town Vigilante. It was completely reasonable for me to do that from a town thrawn perspective. I was already suspicious of Archrun because of his first few posts. I thought since before the lnych that there was a scum mission to get me lynched. Archrun was one of the first people to vote thrawn. Before the vote ended he stated that if shady is town, then thrawn should be lynched. After the lynch I began to focus on him, and he never replied to my posts. Killing him ended up being the wrong decision, but it was clearly in line with what my past reads on Archrun were. On August 18 2012 10:03 DarthPunk wrote:
Your Harry made an entire case about you being town which was based on Archrun being scum.
Shady had a scum read on you. Dead. Confirmed town.
Archrun had a scum read on you. Dead. Confirmed town.
Mkfuba07 had a scum read on Your Harry. Dead. Confirmed town. Mkfuba may have had a scum read on yourharry, but he VOTED for shady (who I voted for) and VERY STRONGLY defended me. He was killed, and flipped town. Why would I as scum thrawn kill mkfuba who was the strongest defender of me being town? Okay. So thrawn just claimed Vigilante. Guess what? That puts him in an even worse spot. Because if he were to look at my case against him, there is pretty strong evidence that him and Ochrow share a QT. Meaning that if they're not masons, they are scum. @thrawn: Thanks for clearing up that you're not a mason . ##Vote: thrawn2112And, I've already said it once, but I'll say it again: ##FoS: Ochrow##FoS: YourHarryI'd be happy to see any of them lynched as I'm certain they're all scum. I'm just trying to wrap my head around this post, so bear with me. GK is convinced that Thrawn and Ochrow (now me) are of the same alignment. If we're not mason buddies, then we're scum together, and one of those scums is a vigilante? Is anyone else seeing how this is the most ridiculous claim ever? If we are backing up to question ourselves: "Is Thrawn actually a vigilante?" then I have something to say regarding that. It's a lot easier to prove you're a vigilante if you make a believable breadcrumb that when revealed shows you haven't lied, but we're in a pickle as far as that's concerned because all we seem to have is a weak breadcrumb and Thrawn's word that he is a vig and spent his one shot last night. On top of that, GK is CERTAIN of my alignment as scum. It seems that he knows more about me than I do, and I suggest everyone take a good hard look at GK today and see if you can agree that he's being pretty scummy here. ##VOTE: goodkarma Are you saying that goodkarma thought that I was a vig and that I was scum? I didn't get that from gk's post. Actually gk seemed to completely distrust my vig claim. I don't think I understand your argument...could you explain it again? The short answer, since I have to leave for a few hours, is: What possible motivation is there for putting two people I am confident are town on the same list and claiming with absolute certainty that they are all scum. The only answer is: it comes from someone who knows their alignments. Scum motivation.
"If we're not mason buddies, then we're scum together, and one of those scums is a vigilante? Is anyone else seeing how this is the most ridiculous claim ever?" This was what I didn't understand, gk did not say that I was both vig and scum. I'm still confused about that part of the argument.
Notice how a mislynch on me can be cast aside as "he was a lurker anyway" among the other points brought up against Ochrow. Notice how a mislynch on you can be cast aside as "his vig claim wasn't strong enough and his breadcrumb was weak so we had no reason to believe him anyway". Goodkarma has a history of policy talk that really gets the town no where, followed up by going after lurkers.
Gk did some policy talk at the beginning but from what I've read in other threads opening up with policy talk is standard. I don't see how gk "has a history of policy talk that really gets the town no where" and I also disagree with the "going after lurkers" accusation. Recently gk has claimed to have scum reads on myself, you, and yourharry and most of gk's posts have been scumhunting posts.
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##Vote Jhuyt
I went over my case against him again, and his entire play just screams scum. I don't think he gave an adequate response to my post, and his recent vote for harry looks like a scum motive.
On August 20 2012 00:36 Jhuyt wrote:
This is the problem with YourHarry, he makes posts that consist of nothing and he makes claims he immediatly retract. It doesn't matter if you're scum or town, this is just bad play on all parts and super anti-town.
For this I'm going to vote for YourHarry
##Vote: YourHarry
The bolded part looks like a scummy way to get people to vote for yourharry. Prior to investigating jhuyt I had a scum read on yourharry but I think jhyut's overall play looks scummier and for that I'm going to assume that unless jhuyt flips green, yourharry's constant flip flops are just due to what yourharry described as his "over-active imagination." My initial read on yourharry after he gave his explanation for his solar/gk mason theory was that he reads too much into things and is too quick to make reads, and now I'm going to accept that again. I'm not going to vote for Obvious because I need more time to get a read on him.
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On August 20 2012 00:37 Obvious.660 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 00:17 thrawn2112 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:00 Obvious.660 wrote:Goodkarma is at the top of my suspects list right now. + Show Spoiler [the most ridiculous thing ever] +On August 18 2012 10:32 goodkarma wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 10:16 thrawn2112 wrote:-snip- Mkfuba made it very clear that he thought I was town, and he also voted against shady. According to the reasoning that darthpunk was using before the night post, shouldn't darthpunk also have thought mkfuba was scum? Nothing was said about mkfuba, and he was killed during the night cycle. Mkfuba wrote out the longest and strongest defense of me, and he is the one who got killed during the night. Why wasn't Archrun the one the mafia killed? Because I killed him with my 1 bullet received from my being Town Vigilante. It was completely reasonable for me to do that from a town thrawn perspective. I was already suspicious of Archrun because of his first few posts. I thought since before the lnych that there was a scum mission to get me lynched. Archrun was one of the first people to vote thrawn. Before the vote ended he stated that if shady is town, then thrawn should be lynched. After the lynch I began to focus on him, and he never replied to my posts. Killing him ended up being the wrong decision, but it was clearly in line with what my past reads on Archrun were. On August 18 2012 10:03 DarthPunk wrote:
Your Harry made an entire case about you being town which was based on Archrun being scum.
Shady had a scum read on you. Dead. Confirmed town.
Archrun had a scum read on you. Dead. Confirmed town.
Mkfuba07 had a scum read on Your Harry. Dead. Confirmed town. Mkfuba may have had a scum read on yourharry, but he VOTED for shady (who I voted for) and VERY STRONGLY defended me. He was killed, and flipped town. Why would I as scum thrawn kill mkfuba who was the strongest defender of me being town? Okay. So thrawn just claimed Vigilante. Guess what? That puts him in an even worse spot. Because if he were to look at my case against him, there is pretty strong evidence that him and Ochrow share a QT. Meaning that if they're not masons, they are scum. @thrawn: Thanks for clearing up that you're not a mason . ##Vote: thrawn2112And, I've already said it once, but I'll say it again: ##FoS: Ochrow##FoS: YourHarryI'd be happy to see any of them lynched as I'm certain they're all scum. I'm just trying to wrap my head around this post, so bear with me. GK is convinced that Thrawn and Ochrow (now me) are of the same alignment. If we're not mason buddies, then we're scum together, and one of those scums is a vigilante? Is anyone else seeing how this is the most ridiculous claim ever? If we are backing up to question ourselves: "Is Thrawn actually a vigilante?" then I have something to say regarding that. It's a lot easier to prove you're a vigilante if you make a believable breadcrumb that when revealed shows you haven't lied, but we're in a pickle as far as that's concerned because all we seem to have is a weak breadcrumb and Thrawn's word that he is a vig and spent his one shot last night. On top of that, GK is CERTAIN of my alignment as scum. It seems that he knows more about me than I do, and I suggest everyone take a good hard look at GK today and see if you can agree that he's being pretty scummy here. ##VOTE: goodkarma Are you saying that goodkarma thought that I was a vig and that I was scum? I didn't get that from gk's post. Actually gk seemed to completely distrust my vig claim. I don't think I understand your argument...could you explain it again? The short answer, since I have to leave for a few hours, is: What possible motivation is there for putting two people I am confident are town on the same list and claiming with absolute certainty that they are all scum. The only answer is: it comes from someone who knows their alignments. Scum motivation. Notice how a mislynch on me can be cast aside as "he was a lurker anyway" among the other points brought up against Ochrow. Notice how a mislynch on you can be cast aside as "his vig claim wasn't strong enough and his breadcrumb was weak so we had no reason to believe him anyway". Goodkarma has a history of policy talk that really gets the town no where, followed up by going after lurkers.
@Obvious,
I have made rather thorough posts regarding my case against you, and against the other two I suspect to be scum. I already have addressed the "certainty" I felt at the time, and so I will not repeat myself now. I'd recommend you discuss the actual case points I have against your predecessor (and by extension, you).
The bolded part of your statement honestly makes little sense to me... First you're saying that because your predecessor was lurky you're an easy target. I do understand this, but first and foremost we scumhunt. You are my strongest scum read. Therefore I vote for you. If you were to look at my post history this game, you'd see I've aggressively pursued my scum suspects, and not all of them were "lurkers."
As for my "lurker hunting history," perhaps you'd like to share your "meta read" on this, and why this makes me scum. I don't follow this at all.
And then there's the "I will be gone for a few hours now." In other words, "I won't be able to follow up in this thread until after the voting deadline. K thx bye." This is a great way to distance yourself from further accusation, as who is going to bother accusing you when you're not going to be around? You're a replacement, and many here would be willing to give you a chance to explain Ochrow's actions. Living to see another day is scum's first priority, and this is a great move to achieve this.
If you're going to discuss "meta reads" Darthpunk should agree with me that while you (as VT in NMM XXII) could be a bit emotional at times, you had your moments when you'd make good case points.
However, this post isn't any kind of emotional outburst. Your case against me feels methodical. When you add to that how weak it is, and how you just jump out of the thread right after jumping in, I don't see you as the same Obvious I played with in XXII. I still feel your play is scum-motivated.
Prove me wrong by mounting a meaningful defense against my case against you instead of only contributing a weak OMGUS vote. Until you do I'm keeping my vote on you.
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Well what an interesting turn of events
@Goodkarma
What? From this:
(...)I'd be happy to see any of them lynched as I'm certain they're all scum.
This:
(...)With this evidence, I am confident thrawn, Ochrow, and YourHarry are all but “confirmed scum.” GG.
and this:
(...)A cornered scum would have no problem lying about his role to get out of a lynch, and that's what I see is the case with Thrawn.
You go to this:
On August 19 2012 07:45 goodkarma wrote:Regarding Thrawn:I know that now about half of us have voted for him, but consider this: as of now he has provided both a reasonable defense and his own scum reads. While some may feel he has made "scumslips" in his choice of words, remember that Shady was guilty of the same thing and he was town. What I'm looking for is a town motivation, which speaks far louder than any one "scumslip." "Scumlips," quite honestly, can be made by town or scum. When I look at Thrawn's most recent play today, he started off quite poorly. He made some WIFOM argument about why he would never kill Mkfuba as scum, and used Mkfuba's defense of him in place of any real defense of his own. However, since then, he has made a post that directly addresses everything I brought up about him in my case post. He claims that the post timing for both him and Ochrow I pointed out is merely coincidence. While I still find that a little hard to believe, I'm looking at his actions too. He has made constructive, pro-town posts even when facing the strong possibility of a lynch. He has presented his own case against YourHarry, and has encouraged others to present their own reasonings behind their posts and not sheep behind a lynch bandwaggon. And then there's the matter of the vigi claim. While I stand by what I've said about a vigi claim being just as plausible for a scum to make, and that there's no certain way of knowing if his claim is true outside of a lynch, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt here. It is plausible he vigi killed Archrun. It would be consistent with his actions. An important component of my case against him is that I believe him and Ochrow have a shared QT, and that their views are eerily similar as though aligned via said QT. If either Ochrow or Thrawn flips red, it gives my "shared QT" case point that much more validity, but I'm not willing to send one possibly innocent player to death just to see if my case is right. First and foremost, we hunt scum, and thrawn's most recent actions feel significantly pro-town to me. As it is, they're both unflipped, and, imho this makes this case point much weaker, and my case in general not the "sure-fire thing" I claimed it to be at the time. I was super-excited with my findings at the time, as putting everything together you get a very neat theory going where everything seems to nicely fit together. But players often will post on similar things at the same time, and that's plausibly the case with Thrawn and Ochrow. However, I do still feel that Ochrow and Thrawn posted so much that was similar at the exact same time my case can't be completely disregarded, and these two individuals should be looked at with extra suspicion. I definitely got a little ahead of myself, but going forward, as always, I'm going to vote for the player who I feel has the strongest scum read. If my shared QT case is to be true, Ochrow is just as important a component. He is my focus for the time being. While Thrawn still could be scum, I can't help but feel that we could be losing a strong town presence if he is telling the truth with his vigi claim. With Ochrow, on the other hand, we would lose pretty much nothing (as I will be discussing shortly). For now: ##Unvote ThrawnRegarding Ochrow:I've already presented much of my case against him, and I'm still waiting for his response. But let's look past that for now, and assume he's just another player that we need to get a read on. Looking through his filter, the first thing you'll see is that it's rather sparse. The second thing you'll see is he hasn't really had a firm stance on anyone. He even tries to defend this.: Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 05:54 Ochrow wrote:
-snip-
On the case against Thrawn and I:
I feel like once again Shady is reading too much into things. As far as the combined case claiming that we are both scum and are working together goes it is based almost entirely off of the timing of our post and the fact that Thrawn copied what I said. However, saying that we are obviously working together makes no sense when it is based purely off of the fact that the second person, in this case Thrawn, merely rewords a public post that I made. I can understand why you would be a bit suspicious, but by your logic one scum could just go around copying and rewording the posts of every person in the game and would therefore have to be in secret contact with every single one of them. The fact of the matter is that there was no insider information that was shared all that happened was that Thrawn piggybacked on somebody else's post and just agree with them. As for my fair and balanced posts or however it was that Shady described them, I simply have not been able to divine that much from what most people are saying, though I will admit to being a timid poster. But at the moment I don't feel I have solid reads on pretty much anyone and so the result of that is I try not to alienate people, though I understand why Shady would be suspicious of that because his goal seems to be to piss off everybody and alienate them all.
-snip-
Even if my shared QT case point doesn't hold water, looking at Ochrow's actions, he is distinctly scummy. He is pretty lurky, and hasn't stuck his neck out on any case argument, spending much of his efforts on a safe "policy lurker vote" against Archrun. His favorite stance on others is pretty much a wishy-washy "I don't know." My read on him is he's a lurky scum with no interest in actively participating in scum-hunting. This alone is enough merit to earn my vote. That his flip will provide valuable information on my shared QT case point is an added bonus. ##Vote: Ochrow
So I wonder, you say that thrawn has made great pro-town posts, made cases against YourHarry, and encourage everyone to be good little townies?
Can you be more specific as to what made you make this HUGE leap of faith?
Because, as far as I read, thrawn barely read MY attack on him, didn't respond to any of my major points and just seems elusive with his posting.
Perhaps you wanted to bus your scum partner just a little bit, then changed your mind as soon as you saw it was going to get him lynched?
Also, wasn't your "certainty" based on the fact that thrawn and ochrwo were scum? If you deem it unjustified, it seems very very weird that you still consider ochrow (now obvious) scum. Now your main line is that thrawn has proved himself town, obvious hasn't, and even though in your theory they were intrinsically connected, one of the is all good, and the other isn't? This is a typical inconsistency found in scums, and to me it can't be so simply ignored.
@thrawn2112
Oh. Great.
The first part was to explain why I voted for shady. Look at that bolded part in context with the rest of the sentence and it makes sense. The second part was based on the true statement that archrun and I shouldn't be the only people investigated. It isn't good for town to limit investigations to only two people, and because I accidentally mislynched a green player (shady) I realized that I was being too focused on my reads and not bothering to give a hard enough look at other players.
So now you come with:
First I want to point out that Jhyut only has 9 posts, and has not posted in the last 24 hours. That's not damming evidence but it is pretty shady. I'm going to quote his posts and bold the parts I want to talk about. I'd like to hear what everyone else thinks of how I'm interpreting his posts because I may just be biased against him because of his low post count.
Remember this?
We should start discussing our lynch candidates. I am inclined to lynch a lurker on day one. This will:
1) Give us a good chance of catching scum. During at least the last 3 newbie games, there was always a lurking scum or more. With 3 lurkers, we have a 1/3 chance of hitting the mark, instead of 1/4 (assuming that the lack of discussion in D1 will give us a random lynch)
2) Make the other lurkers be more active.
3) Give participial players more time to defend themselves.
Is this agreeable?
And this:
On August 17 2012 05:14 Z-BosoN wrote:My current lists of suspects stands as: 1) thrawn2112
2) YourHarry
3) Shady SandsDue to all of my previous reasoning, and the fact that none of them have given me reason to retract my suspicions. However, I am very firm on my decision to execute lynchers. Day one is filled with circumstantial evidence and is very easy to make wrong conclusions, and the probability of a miss-lynch is very high. What we DO know for CERTAIN is that lurkers are way more prejudicial to the town, because we cannot have decent reads on them. This is a game of reasoning and deduction, but for that, we need DATA, INFORMATION, which lurkers fail to provide. For this first day, since I don't think any of the suspicions so far are conclusive, I will vote for a lurker. We have Golbat , Stutters, and JHuyt who have been balls-out lurkers. I say we should lynch one of those. Now, speaking for myself, how will I choose? Let's take a brief look at their history: GolbatHas said nothing. Has two posts. He is lurker number one. He briefly accused thrawn with little evidence, threw some dirt on Shady, YourHarry and Solar. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, we will not have any new leads from that information, but will be down a useless townie. If we lynch him and he turns out scum, that will be great for us, but we will still have no leads. His accusations could just as easily be his scum buddies due to the fact that he hasn't done any sort of analysis on anybody. I would go even so far as to think that he will be mod-killed, due to not voting. If he suddenly posts now, we will have VERY strong reason to lynch him the next day, because posting some crap early on and disappearing until close to the deadline is a Strong Strong indicator of SCUM. Onward. StuttersHe begins by agreeing that the discussion regarding SK is a waste of time he doesn't raise suspicion, doesn't do any investigative move, just says that and goes on to tell Solar to post better. Then he makes a longer post, telling Solar once again to stop with the trolling (which is fine, he was getting annoying), and making a small, non-compromising case against Shady. States some facts, then moves on, without taking an aggressive stance. Asks why getting filters is necessary (I had already mentioned this...). And just like that, he's gone. Basically he is on the same boat as Golbat. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, we will have lynched a semi-useless townie. If we lynch him and he turns out scum, great! But still no real info. So that leaves... JHyutWho begins with similar obvious cases against Solar, Shady, and YourHarry. Escapes having to post anything else saying "I'm sorry, but I don't think I can be of any more use until new evidence is posted.". Then goes on to FOS thrawn, not using any original evidence. Without explaining anything, says that Archrun was not scum, says that thrawn is not scum, then votes for Shady Sands, without explaining, and just like that he's gone. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, then thrawn will have some weight off his shoulders. He would have ignored accusing a greenie based on his lack of observation. Golbat will look about the same, because he was ignored alongside an innocent and we may figure something out on ArchRun as well (I still have to read more carefully his posts). If we lynch him and he turns out scum, Archrun and thrawn2112 will not look so good. He INSTANTLY dropped his suspicion of both these players, and this is resonated by my case against Thrawn, where I note a fishy situation between thrawn and either golbat,archrun and/or jhuyt. Here is a snippet so you guys don't have to go all the way back: + Show Spoiler +
You made an FOS on Archrun by saying that he only had made 3 posts and had no scumhunting. However, you completely ignored Golbat, who only has 2 posts with one-dimensional scumhunting claims, being that the FIRST thing he says is that you are the scummiest player, to which you respond with:
Is this something I need to defend myself on? I am not sober right now so I don't think I could type a clear response till I wake up. Going to sleep now, I hope to wake up and see some more posts.
And you don't mention it again. This seems to me to be a clear, 100% dodge. You give IRL excuses and forget about it, even hinting that you don't feel the need to answer it. You ignore Golbat not once, but twice. A townie thrawn would definitely bother defending himself to a direct attack such as that, and would try to policy-lynch both Golbat and ArchRun.
However, you also didn't call JHyut, who also has 2 posts and even worse in quality than both the mentioned posters.
Why mention only ArchRun and not Golbat, who called you out or JHyut?
Either this is incredibly sloppy play, or you have a scum partner. If we assume the latter, then I can only think of:
1) You are trying to distract people from Golbat by making other accusations, and completely ignored JHyut.
2) You are trying to bus your partner ArchRun so as to draw away suspicion from yourself in case he comes up red. And, you completely ignored JHyut and Golbat.
3) You don't want to call out three people at once for whatever reason and chose someone other than your scum partner.
I find this Highly Suspicious.
That being said, I think right now the general lurkyness of JHuyt + the lack of quality of his posts + this weird switch of votes + his affiliation with Golbat and the amount of information we can make out if he is lynched, I will go with ##Vote JHuytPS: I noticed I got sniped. Dangerous timing there, Stutters. I will not bother changing my post, because I have to head out, but I think I will be able to log on near the deadline. Hope I sounded reasonable enough. Great job increasing the discussion in this eery end of D1!
Of course, NOW that you have a boulder on your shoulders, you suddenly start playing the pro-townie let's lynch lurkers role, because you can't find any other active townie to go ahead and try to lynch. As you have been doing, you completely IGNORED my reasoning as to why a Jhuyt lynch would have been best for town.
When there was shady sands, who was a completely active player who was even less suspicious than you are now, you didn't even hesitate to join his bandwagon, with weakass arguments:
On August 17 2012 00:00 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 19:32 Shady Sands wrote:
Okay, I just posted and I immediately saw Ochrow and Thrawn both trying to get a train on Archrun going (both posting within 30 minutes of each other.) This just reconfirms my theory:
Ochrow and Thrawn are, at the very least, working together, and given how Thrawn's been so WIFOMy and sheepy for the game, I'd reckon they are not masons but scum. Just to show you how absurd of an argument this is, I'd like to point something out. You said that you saw both ochrow and I, within 30 minutes of each other were "trying to get a train on archrun going." Well, you and Archrun both voted against me within 3 minutes. If I use the reasoning you used to link me with ochrow as both scum, I must also link you with Archrun as scum. Really shady, your arguments against me have been quite a stretch, and over and over you have ignored my responses to your accusations. I do not think that if you are thoroughly reading my posts that you would still have the belief that I am scum. I will go over our conversation and try to figure out if I have been unclear in my responses to you, and I urge you to go through the conversation to see if you might have missed out on what I was trying to say. If we can't figure this out, then my only options are to think that you are scum and trying to set me up, or that you are town and making weak reads and terrible arguments. I think it is the former so I am going to vote for you. If it is the latter, I won't feel TOO bad about lynching a town player who makes bad arguments. Whatever happened to your campaign to get everyone posting their previous game filters? Based on what you have done since demanding filters from everyone, I don't see a pro-town motive for your request. Your reasoning in asking for them was that having filters can be very useful in getting reads on people's posts that are made in specific circumstances, such as what a player usually acts like when accused of being scum. After asking for everyone's filters, you haven't even brought the subject back up. What was the point of asking in the first place if you are not going to follow through with analysis? If you wanted to view the filters for your own sole benefit, it would have been way easier for you to just find the filters yourself. If you wanted the group to view the filters so that the town can make better reads, then why haven't you provided any analysis of a player's posting within this game to their posting within previous games? I can't figure out why you asked from them in the first place, which leads me to the conclusion that your filter requests were fluff. ##Vote Shady Sands
Which is in DIRECT contradition to your so called stance on policy:
Policy?
A few people started talking about policy at the beginning and we never actually came to an agreement on that because of solar's trolling. Can we say whether or not we are going to FOS lurkers? Of course this doesnt not mean an automatic lynching, but it will help to keep everyone posting so that we can all get better reads. My vote is that yes, this policy should be put in effect, even though we have almost wasted the opportunity to do so.
My conclusion is this, thrawn is mafia, he's shown so much evidence on and on, and he's simply trying to squirm his way out. And until goodkarma can better convince me of why he suddenly had a enourmous change of heart,
##FOS goodkarma
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Thrawn, look at the bold part of this quote:
Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 21:11 Jhuyt wrote:When I looked at the case GK made in this post I got the feeling that you might be scum, but I wasn't sure. When I couple that with your scumslip it makes more sense that he's right and therefore I think you're scum. The benefit of the doubt line was one that I was considering to cut out of the post because it doesn't add anything and I'm pretty sure I misused the expression.I should have said that while I do think you're scum I think that YH's behaviour is way scummier and so much more anti-town that a lynch on him is necessary so that we can have a clearer discussion. That's a reasonable defense if you think that such a misuse of that phrase is likely but I don't think it is. He apologizes for posting it instead of just admitting it was a mistake which IMO is scummy. The last part, "YH's behaviour is way scummier and so much more anti-town that a lynch on him is necessary so that we can have a clearer discussion" gives off a town feeling to it.
now look at the bold part of this quote:
Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 00:36 Jhuyt wrote:
This is the problem with YourHarry, he makes posts that consist of nothing and he makes claims he immediatly retract. It doesn't matter if you're scum or town, this is just bad play on all parts and super anti-town.
For this I'm going to vote for YourHarry
##Vote: YourHarry The bolded part looks like a scummy way to get people to vote for yourharry. Prior to investigating jhuyt I had a scum read on yourharry but I think jhyut's overall play looks scummier and for that I'm going to assume that unless jhuyt flips green, yourharry's constant flip flops are just due to what yourharry described as his "over-active imagination." My initial read on yourharry after he gave his explanation for his solar/gk mason theory was that he reads too much into things and is too quick to make reads, and now I'm going to accept that again. I'm not going to vote for Obvious because I need more time to get a read on him.
I use the same arguments and draw two wildly different conclusions from it, please be more consistent.
I would also like to hear what you did not find sufficient with my defense of you FoS, it's pretty scummy to dodge the bullet like you did.
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Z-Boson, a good town player wouldn't dismiss my case against Jhuyt. Even if you think that I am for sure scum, ignoring any case is not pro-town. I think you greatly misrepresented how I've responded to people's cases against me. I've not responded to a small number of posts, but they were a few posts out of the many I've had to respond to. I've spent more than enough time responding to people's cases against me and I don't think most of the people that voted for me are likely to change their vote. These people are so convinced I'm scum that they just ignore most of what I say and twist the rest of it into evidence against me. And the quotes you referenced only look bad when you take them out of context like you've done; they were made days apart and the town atmosphere and conversations were very different.
Keep your vote on me if you want but for the sake of scumhunting could you read my case against jhuyt and tell me what you think?
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@Z-boson:
First I'd like to thank you for taking the time to re-affirm your read on Thrawn. As the deadline approaches, many have just voted, then afk-ed from the thread altogether.
Okay, so here we go, for the last time. My "certainty" that Thrawn and the other two (Ochrow, YourHarry) were scum was tied partially to the shared scum QT case point I made, as well as how neatly they seemed to be supporting each other as "townies" against popular stances of the time. The problem with this case, which I had elevated to the point of "I'm certain," is that none of these players have flipped yet. However excited I was at the time that I had "solved the game," I overlooked the possibility of there being some coincidence in their stances, and by nature of them being different from the mainstream that I naturally became biased towards them. That's not to say that I have completely disregarded my original case, but it's not at the level of "100% certain" that I had originally believed it to be.
At the very least, Thrawn directly disputed my case. Feel free to read his filter if this is a point of disbelief for you. I felt that he dealt with my case points as best he could if he truly was town. And instead of curling up in a defensive ball, he made his own case points against YourHarry, which I felt showed he was just as interested in scumhunting as showing his innocence (a pro-town trait). And as for the vigi claim, though as I've said before (now several times...) is not 100% confirmable outside of a flip, there is the possibility of giving him another day to see if the kill count goes down to one, which would at least be some evidence supporting his claim.
If my shared QT case is to be believed, then Ochrow is also scum. I personally find him more scummy than Thrawn right now, and that is why I've voted for him. If you've read my filter you would know that Thrawn is still on my scum suspects list. I have not forgotten about him, but he's not my strongest scum read right now.
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On August 20 2012 04:50 Jhuyt wrote:Thrawn, look at the bold part of this quote: Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 21:11 Jhuyt wrote:When I looked at the case GK made in this post I got the feeling that you might be scum, but I wasn't sure. When I couple that with your scumslip it makes more sense that he's right and therefore I think you're scum. The benefit of the doubt line was one that I was considering to cut out of the post because it doesn't add anything and I'm pretty sure I misused the expression.I should have said that while I do think you're scum I think that YH's behaviour is way scummier and so much more anti-town that a lynch on him is necessary so that we can have a clearer discussion. That's a reasonable defense if you think that such a misuse of that phrase is likely but I don't think it is. He apologizes for posting it instead of just admitting it was a mistake which IMO is scummy. The last part, "YH's behaviour is way scummier and so much more anti-town that a lynch on him is necessary so that we can have a clearer discussion" gives off a town feeling to it. now look at the bold part of this quote: Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 00:36 Jhuyt wrote:
This is the problem with YourHarry, he makes posts that consist of nothing and he makes claims he immediatly retract. It doesn't matter if you're scum or town, this is just bad play on all parts and super anti-town.
For this I'm going to vote for YourHarry
##Vote: YourHarry The bolded part looks like a scummy way to get people to vote for yourharry. Prior to investigating jhuyt I had a scum read on yourharry but I think jhyut's overall play looks scummier and for that I'm going to assume that unless jhuyt flips green, yourharry's constant flip flops are just due to what yourharry described as his "over-active imagination." My initial read on yourharry after he gave his explanation for his solar/gk mason theory was that he reads too much into things and is too quick to make reads, and now I'm going to accept that again. I'm not going to vote for Obvious because I need more time to get a read on him.
I use the same arguments and draw two wildly different conclusions from it, please be more consistent.
I would also like to hear what you did not find sufficient with my defense of you FoS, it's pretty scummy to dodge the bullet like you did.[/QUOTE]
What bullet did I dodge that makes me look scummy? You dodged the bullet. I made a very long case against you and you only bothered to respond to a small portion of it. The parts you did respond to you basically restated what I said. My case was that in each of your posts, you deny scumhunting responsibilty by giving excuses such as "I don't know" and "first day is silly" and other example that I pointed out. Most of your posts are suspicious on their own, and when you look at all of them as a whole the picture gets even worse.
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edit to clear up formatting:
On August 20 2012 04:50 Jhuyt wrote:Thrawn, look at the bold part of this quote: Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 21:11 Jhuyt wrote:When I looked at the case GK made in this post I got the feeling that you might be scum, but I wasn't sure. When I couple that with your scumslip it makes more sense that he's right and therefore I think you're scum. The benefit of the doubt line was one that I was considering to cut out of the post because it doesn't add anything and I'm pretty sure I misused the expression.I should have said that while I do think you're scum I think that YH's behaviour is way scummier and so much more anti-town that a lynch on him is necessary so that we can have a clearer discussion. That's a reasonable defense if you think that such a misuse of that phrase is likely but I don't think it is. He apologizes for posting it instead of just admitting it was a mistake which IMO is scummy. The last part, "YH's behaviour is way scummier and so much more anti-town that a lynch on him is necessary so that we can have a clearer discussion" gives off a town feeling to it. now look at the bold part of this quote: Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 00:36 Jhuyt wrote:
This is the problem with YourHarry, he makes posts that consist of nothing and he makes claims he immediatly retract. It doesn't matter if you're scum or town, this is just bad play on all parts and super anti-town.
For this I'm going to vote for YourHarry
##Vote: YourHarry The bolded part looks like a scummy way to get people to vote for yourharry. Prior to investigating jhuyt I had a scum read on yourharry but I think jhyut's overall play looks scummier and for that I'm going to assume that unless jhuyt flips green, yourharry's constant flip flops are just due to what yourharry described as his "over-active imagination." My initial read on yourharry after he gave his explanation for his solar/gk mason theory was that he reads too much into things and is too quick to make reads, and now I'm going to accept that again. I'm not going to vote for Obvious because I need more time to get a read on him. I use the same arguments and draw two wildly different conclusions from it, please be more consistent. I would also like to hear what you did not find sufficient with my defense of you FoS, it's pretty scummy to dodge the bullet like you did.
What bullet did I dodge that makes me look scummy? You dodged the bullet. I made a very long case against you and you only bothered to respond to a small portion of it. The parts you did respond to you basically restated what I said. My case was that in each of your posts, you deny scumhunting responsibilty by giving excuses such as "I don't know" and "first day is silly" and other example that I pointed out. Most of your posts are suspicious on their own, and when you look at all of them as a whole the picture gets even worse.
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As the deadline is now only 4 hours away, I would like to encourage everyone to make a post to either re-affirm or change your votes. At the very least please discuss your reads on the two players that have gained the most support: Thrawn and YourHarry. If you could also chip in on the others who have received a vote (Obvious and myself), that would be great .
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On August 20 2012 05:08 goodkarma wrote:As the deadline is now only 4 hours away, I would like to encourage everyone to make a post to either re-affirm or change your votes. At the very least please discuss your reads on the two players that have gained the most support: Thrawn and YourHarry. If you could also chip in on the others who have received a vote (Obvious and myself), that would be great .
jhuyt too please
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@Thrawn:
I looked to the latest votecount, and missed your vote. Jhuyt, too, should be discussed. As the only person on the list I haven't discussed on day 2, let me briefly share my thoughts.
I did find Jhuyt scummy enough to vote for day 1, and I don't feel the reasons I originally had for voting him have really changed. And then there's the quote you brought up in your voting post:
On August 20 2012 00:36 Jhuyt wrote:ok, I found something in Harry's filter, it isn't much but I thought it was kind of interesting. Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 12:48 YourHarry wrote:
I will explain later, or maybe it will sort itself out.
FOS Following people still have not posted:
Golbat
Jhuyt
Z-BosoN
Ochrow
In this post he was very clear with whom had not yet posted, so I assume he made the effort to look through the filters and found us. later on he says this: Show nested quote +As to why I did not call out Ochrow: I was not even aware of it. How many times did I call lurkers out - I did not make sure that I got every single lurkers out. In fact, I thought in one of the list, I copied lurker list provided by previous poster and eliminated names who posted since then. I simply missed him for some reason... Here he claims that he did not try to find everybody, so he lied, or forgot about it, I'd say he lied. This is the problem with YourHarry, he makes posts that consist of nothing and he makes claims he immediatly retract. It doesn't matter if you're scum or town, this is just bad play on all parts and super anti-town.
For this I'm going to vote for YourHarry##Vote: YourHarry
In other words, Jhuyt has chosen to prioritize lynching YourHarry even if he is only a bad town.
So in one word, yes. I find him scummy. However, I never really had a strong scum read on him. My day one vote was a combination of a vote based on wishy-washy behavior and semi-lurking. Combined with this one "scumslip," I don't see enough there to convince me he's scummier than Obvious, as "scumslips" can be made by town or scum. Especially with Obvious so hesitant to present any kind of defense against my case posts against his predecessor (and by extension, him) or him.
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EPT
