EPTI think what seperates the pros from the not pros is they constantly keep that apm no matter what just so when they need it it's already there.
Kinda the way an olympic boxer is always hoping around with his footwork, you know?
[G] Winning With Ease - Page 3
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BongPower
Syria21 Posts
I think what seperates the pros from the not pros is they constantly keep that apm no matter what just so when they need it it's already there. Kinda the way an olympic boxer is always hoping around with his footwork, you know? | ||
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Champloo
Germany1850 Posts
There's just not much to do, you just scout and make units for most part of the game and macro doesn't need a lot of actions in SC2. | ||
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Savant7
United Kingdom9 Posts
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caznitch
Canada645 Posts
Name: Caz Race: terran Match up: TvX Your Build: 1 rax FE into MMM His Build: anything Specific Map?: none Comments: I can't incorporate caster units (ghost/raven) into my play as I feel they are so APM intensive. I want to incorporate ghosts into my TvP late game but usually end up staring at the screen while they die to colossi. If you could show effective raven use that woudl be cool too though I have less ideas on when to use this unit. | ||
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Danzo
2820 Posts
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AndAgain
United States2621 Posts
On August 08 2012 06:56 Champloo wrote: I don't think you need a lot of APM in Starcraft 2, at least not for Protoss. I have ~150 APM in WC3 and ~170 in HoN. But when I play SC2 I have around 80 APM if I don't spam a lot. There's just not much to do, you just scout and make units for most part of the game and macro doesn't need a lot of actions in SC2. I also had around 80 APM as protoss when I was low-mid masters. Then I started focusing more on micro and now I'm at 95 or so mid-high masters. You should look into it. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On August 08 2012 07:34 AndAgain wrote: I also had around 80 APM as protoss when I was low-mid masters. Then I started focusing more on micro and now I'm at 95 or so mid-high masters. You should look into it. I really think 80-100 apm is all you need to hit Master League. Sure, you could probably make it in with less, and of course MORE speed never hurts, but I think the big thing is that with 40 peak apm, that's like 1 click or button press every 1.5 seconds, which strikes me as impossibly slow. Even certain basic mechanics, like stutter-stepping stalkers against non-stim Marines, takes up 40 apm on its own. How are you going to make units and probes while doing your PvT scouting poke? etc Now, obviously apm is just a measurement unit we have to measure "speed" and it is imperfect. It's just worth noting you can do quite well with low speed-- I'm a low-speed player myself. However, there's nothing wrong with working to improve your speed first, and although, yes, if you can beat someone using only 40 apm, you can beat them when you use more, the difference between 40 apm and 80 apm (assuming no spam) isn't one of magnitude, it's one of [/i]type.[/i] You simply can't macro off of more than a certain number of bases, and can't execute certain moves (such as stim-kiting) with 40 apm. You definitely can't use both. When your low speed is so slow that it prevents you from using standard strategies, it means that if you are able to do so, you should increase your speed. Some people, due to physical ability, RSI, or age, are not able to do so, and that's understandable. They do what they can. But intentionally playing slow like you're Goku training in 10x gravity so that you can turn off your gravity and kick ass isn't going to work. Goku has the ability to fly, and in 10x gravity he could still do a pushup and stuff. If you can't get over 40 apm, you can't stimkite. You're like Goku and you can't even do a pushup. "But wait Blazinghand isn't Goku a Saiyan? That means even by getting hurt, when he recovers he gets even stronger, which is why in the Time-" ok DUDE I get it, it's not a PERFECT analogy. Christ! lay off for a moment! THE POINT is that with 40 apm you can't even do the same kinds of things as normal players do, so it's not a legitimate way to play if your 40 apm is a choice rather than a restriction forced on you against your will. "but the analogy-" ok ok dude look let's go talk somewhere else about it E: but you get the point, don't feel like you gotta slow down and that'll make you better- it won't. | ||
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Bojas
Netherlands2397 Posts
I think it's important to increase your apm rather than using your apm efficiently. That old school multitask trainer map is great as it forces you out of that comfort-zone which you should get used to. Really I don't see how you can drop while attacking or even macro while attacking with less than 80 apm. Or imagine playing zerg, you got to spread your creep, scout the enemy get upgrades inject keep map presence up, you cannot do that with less than 100 apm (maybe if your actions are ultra tight and you use minimal clicks but let's assume you will need more than as little clicks as possible like most people) I can really recommend that multitasking trainer, it forces you out of your comfort zone which is the only good way to get faster. I'll try to tune in to see if your students can do what is neccesary with so few actions available per minute. | ||
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zmansman17
United States2567 Posts
This way perhaps, players have a more realistic template from which they can make their own actions. | ||
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zmansman17
United States2567 Posts
On August 08 2012 08:02 Bojas wrote: I'm a terran player with around 100-125ish eapm, 150-220 apm. Diamond league. I think it's important to increase your apm rather than using your apm efficiently. That old school multitask trainer map is great as it forces you out of that comfort-zone which you should get used to. Really I don't see how you can drop while attacking or even macro while attacking with less than 80 apm. Or imagine playing zerg, you got to spread your creep, scout the enemy get upgrades inject keep map presence up, you cannot do that with less than 100 apm (maybe if your actions are ultra tight and you use minimal clicks but let's assume you will need more than as little clicks as possible like most people) I can really recommend that multitasking trainer, it forces you out of your comfort zone which is the only good way to get faster. I'll try to tune in to see if your students can do what is neccesary with so few actions available per minute. If you have this much apm and eapm, there is no reason you should not be in master league and even top 8 master league for that matter. apm and eapm are really not that important, given that you meet a certain threshold. I've been able to get rank 1-3 masters with all races with 100 eapm. That is all you need. It's more important once you reach a similar eapm what should be prioritized, tighten up your BOs, practice your micro, and think more proactively in real time. | ||
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ymir233
United States8275 Posts
Because if APM 'doesn't matter', then that's all it is. A mechanical aspect of your playing style. | ||
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Reborn8u
United States1761 Posts
The best Koreans actually have multitasking that is as good as their APM. I think that is why so many korean players are able to get through open brackets so consistently. They get on 2 bases and just out multitask their opponents with constant 2 or 3 pronged harassment and engagements. I'd like to clear up a common misconception about spam. When you see a top pro cycle through his hotkeys, they are often looking at the bottom center of their screen to see when production cycles are ending. (Cool downs on production and buildings finishing.) It often appears to be spam, but they are actually looking to see what is finishing when they are cycling. During the opening seconds it's pretty much just spam, but as soon as the first building is placed they are keeping tabs on it's completion in this manner. | ||
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Bojas
Netherlands2397 Posts
On August 08 2012 08:07 zmansman17 wrote: If you have this much apm and eapm, there is no reason you should not be in master league and even top 8 master league for that matter. apm and eapm are really not that important, given that you meet a certain threshold. I've been able to get rank 1-3 masters with all races with 100 eapm. That is all you need. It's more important once you reach a similar eapm what should be prioritized, tighten up your BOs, practice your micro, and think more proactively in real time. This must be true, I've been stuck in diamond for a year for a reason. I'm not claiming that my apm being high is of huge importance, especially not when multitasking is irrelevant which is most of the game. Basically I am just wondering if 40 apm is enough to play this game, in my zerg example I wonder if less than 100 apm is enough, so why would you be able to play this game at a decent level, (I assume masters is the goal?) with 40 apm. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On August 08 2012 08:13 Bojas wrote: This must be true, I've been stuck in diamond for a year for a reason. I'm not claiming that apm is of huge importance, especially not when multitasking is irrelevant which is most of the game. Basically I am just wondering if 40 apm is enough to play this game, in my zerg example I wonder if less than 100 apm is enough, so why would you be able to play this game at a decent level, (I assume masters is the goal?) with 40 apm. You can GET into master league with 40 apm, probably, but you'd have to cheese like a dirty girl to do it. In fact, you can stay there quite comfortably like that. If you want to do anything other than 1-base cheese, though, you'll need 60-80 apm. | ||
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NewbieOne
Poland560 Posts
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Solarsail
United Kingdom538 Posts
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NewbieOne
Poland560 Posts
On August 08 2012 08:19 Solarsail wrote: Currently Diamond @ 40 APM because of wrist problems. I'm really looking forward to this series! I still I feel I lose more often on decison making than hand speed. Same, except maybe marine splitting or some crap in TvP with chargelots and storms. Otherwise the reason is almost always not insufficient APM. In my peak at WC3 TFT I played against guys with 2-3 times my APM and won, sometimes 4x. | ||
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netherh
United Kingdom333 Posts
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irocksu
Germany39 Posts
Most of the APM are not "effective" APM. And I do not mean the Blizzard EAPM, but the real meaning of effect. Many players cycle through their production facilities, just to check on the progress of a certain unit. This is actually useful information but you do not do anything there is no "effect". You can execute your your BO without them. Everything would be more bumpy and you would not feel the comfort of complete control, but still. Another thing to consider is that even with only 40 APM you have a ton of extra knowledge. Like when to scout, what to look for how to cross out certain builds etc. An good example are push timings like 4 gate, earliest Muta, Stim 1/0 push. I do not want to talk you out of your project, but please consider this and explain those things too. There is just not that much value in someone executing a nearly perfect build with 40 APM, getting the almost perfect unit mix just to crush some Platinum player. Everybody can get a BO and execute it almost perfectly without pressure. The question is how do you know what your opponent is up to. In other words: "How should you prepare?" And a slightly less important question is how to decide where to focus at each given time. | ||
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TheWorldToCome
United States452 Posts
On August 07 2012 07:08 Pylons wrote: my friend, google was top 8 grandmasters with about 40 - 60 apm, so 40 apm is definitely enough to win in masters league! Wasn't he a hacker? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=311134 | ||
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