• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:38
CEST 01:38
KST 08:38
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202561RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings The StarCraft 2 GOAT - An in-depth analysis #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time EWC 2025 details: $700k total prize; GSL, DH Dallas confirmed Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
BITCOIN RECOVERY EXPERT | LOST RECOVERY MASTERS BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
[G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Post Pic of your Favorite Food!
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 693 users

[G] Winning With Ease

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 20 21 22 Next All
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-30 06:00:00
August 06 2012 19:52 GMT
#1
Introduction: From a 12 drone rush to a 7 gate blink stalker all in, there is always a way to scout, prepare, and engage to swing the game into your favor. In my series, Winning With Ease, I showcase the best decisions to be made in these situations while facing mid-high masters players all the while using minimal APM. The series is for all 3 Starcraft races and adds a new video every day so either check in here every day for the new episode (added to the OP) or check out my youtube channel.

So far I have run through a variety of series to test the waters and gain an understanding of what SC help is still lacking out there. I wanted to be able to bring something new to the table that would really be able to benefit a large group of people. Eventually a silver league friend of mine actually came up with an idea about making videos showing how to stop certain pushes and cheeses that always kill him. I decided to take it and run and now I have my series Winning With Ease [Formerly Winning in 40 APM or Less]. Hopefully with these videos you will gain a much better understanding of Starcraft 2 and the difference between you and the next level in terms of decision making.

Note: These videos are aimed at Masters and below players. I'm not claiming to be a GM who can hold anything and I'm sure pros with amazing micro and mechanics could still outplay me even if I use some of my own advice for how to hold.

About me:
Name: MrLlamaSC
League: Masters
Race: Zerg
Stream: www.twitch.tv/mrllamasc
Youtube: www.youtube.com/mrllamasc

Where Do You Come In?
You get to throw out suggestions for videos based on stuff you are struggling with. Whether it be something like 6 pool or immortal sentry all-in, I'm here to help. I will re-enact your scenario as best as I can so that I can show you all of the important decisions to make to hold off his push.

What should you include in your post:
+ Show Spoiler +
Name:
Race:
Match up:
Your Build:
His Build:
Specific Map?:
Replay: (helpful if you can provide one but not always necessary)
Comments:

EXAMPLE:
Name: JackBlack
Race: Terran
Match up: Tvt
Your Build: 1-1-1 into Cloak Banshee
His Build: 2 rax marine-scv all-in
Specific Map?: None
Replay: drop.sc/xxxxx
Comments: I don't like to wall-in in the TvT match up



Episodes:


TvT
Defending 1-1-1 Push Tank/Marine/Viking (TvT)
Defending Proxy Thor Rush (TvT)
Defending Proxy Marauder Rush (TvT)
Defending Marine Hellion Drop (TvT)


TvZ
Defending 2 Base Early Muta Play (TvZ)
Defending 2 Base Baneling Bust (TvZ)
Defending 2 Base Roach Rush (TvZ)
Defending Roach Bane Bust (TvZ)
Defending 6 pool with Command Center first (TvZ)


TvP
Defending Sase 3 Gate Agression w/ 1 rax FE (TvP)
Defending 1 Base Blink Stalker All in (TvP)
Defending Immortal Sentry All In (TvP)
Defending Proxy 2 Gate (TvP)
Defending 4 gate (TvP)
Defending 1 base Void Ray All In (TvP)
Defending 1 base colossus all in (TvP)
Defending cannon rush on antiga shipyard (TvP)


ZvT
Defending 11/11 rax (ZvT) (Going to redo due to complaints)
Playing Against Terran mech (ZvT)
Defending 2 Rax scv all in w/ 3 Hatch before pool (ZvT)
Defending Marauder Hellion Allin (ZvT)
Defending 11/11 Barracks Wall In (ZvT)
Defending 2 Rax Bunker Wall In (ZvT)
Defending Hellion/Banshee Harass (ZvT)


ZvZ
Defending 6 Pool Lings Only (ZvZ)
Defending 6 Pool Lings and Spine (ZvZ)
Defending 6 pool w/ all drones pulled (ZvZ)
Defending 10 pool w/ Hatch First & No Scout (ZvZ)
Defending 10 pool w/ Hatch first & 9-10 scout (ZvZ)
Defending 14/14 Ling Bling All In (ZvZ)
Defending 2 Hatch Ling/Bling All in (ZvZ)
Playing Ling Infestory Ultra Style (ZvZ)
Defending Against Mutalisks (ZvZ)


ZvP
Defending 7 Gate +2 Blink Stalker All in (ZvP)
Defending 1 Base Collosus All in (ZvP)
Defending 3 Pylon Block (ZvP)
Defending Cannons at your Natural (ZvP)
Defending 4 gate (ZvP)
Defending Delayed 12:30 Immortal Sentry All in (ZvP)
Defending Pylon/Forge Block (ZvP)
Defending 10:00 Immortal Sentry All in (ZvP)
Defending Double Stargate (ZvP)
Defending SkyToss Voidray/Carrier (ZvP)
Teching to Broodlord Infestor (ZvP)


PvT
Defending 10 Min +1 Stim MMM Push (PvT)
Defending 2 Rax All In (PvT)
Defending 2 rax scv all in with Nexus First (PvT)
Defending the 1-1-1


PvZ
Defending 12 Drone Rush (PvZ)
Defending 7 Pool w/ FFE (PvZ)
Defending 7 pool w/ Gate Opener (PvZ)
Defending 6 pool into proxy hatch with spines (PvZ)
Defending 2 base Mutas (PvZ)
Securing a 3rd Base (PvZ)
Defending Proxy Hatch in Base With Nexus First (PvZ)
Establishing a 3rd vs 12:00 Roach Max (PvZ)


PvP
Defending 4 gate w/ 3 stalker opener (PvP)
Defending Cannon Rush (PvP)
Defending Proxy 2 Gate In Your Base (PvP)
Defending DT Rush into zealot/Archon all in (PvP)
Defending 1 base Phoenix All in (PvP)
Defending Cannon Rush on Antiga Shipyard (PvP)


Videos in production:
ZvZ: Mass mutas
ZvZ: 8 muta harass roach switch
PvT: 1-1-1 banshee-siege-marine-scv (possible raven)
PvT: 8-9min stim marine (marauder maybe?) (open 1 gate FE, 3 gate, 6 min robo, 7 min twilight, charge)
ZvT: Proxy rax w/ gas into reaper bunker rush, marauders, banshee
ZvT: Raven Mech into SkyMech (Metropolis)
ZvT: MMM (I open muta into fast 3rd)
ZvT: hellion/banshee harass with 3 bases
ZvP: Safely teching to infestor/broodlord

Discussion and questions are always welcome

-MrLlamaSC
www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-06 20:22:08
August 06 2012 20:21 GMT
#2
Macro mechanics, creep spread, injects and basic army movement is enough to put you at ~150eapm+ if you are going mid/lategame zerg, how are you going to handle that?

And also considering that 500 resources of zerglings (20 lings) moved twice will count as 40 actions, but 500 resources of roaches (5 roaches) moved twice will count as only 10 actions, how are you going to account for that? APM is a horrible measure of hand/brain speed.
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Roxor9999
Profile Joined December 2011
Netherlands771 Posts
August 06 2012 20:32 GMT
#3
On August 07 2012 05:21 Cyro wrote:
Macro mechanics, creep spread, injects and basic army movement is enough to put you at ~150eapm+ if you are going mid/lategame zerg, how are you going to handle that?

And also considering that 500 resources of zerglings (20 lings) moved twice will count as 40 actions, but 500 resources of roaches (5 roaches) moved twice will count as only 10 actions, how are you going to account for that? APM is a horrible measure of hand/brain speed.

Actually moving 20 lings is only 1 action.
OT: The best way is just have more apm instead of trying to be good with 40.
yankjenets
Profile Joined June 2010
United States232 Posts
August 06 2012 20:37 GMT
#4
On August 07 2012 05:21 Cyro wrote:
Macro mechanics, creep spread, injects and basic army movement is enough to put you at ~150eapm+ if you are going mid/lategame zerg, how are you going to handle that?

And also considering that 500 resources of zerglings (20 lings) moved twice will count as 40 actions, but 500 resources of roaches (5 roaches) moved twice will count as only 10 actions, how are you going to account for that? APM is a horrible measure of hand/brain speed.


If you are moving each of your lings individually, then something is seriously wrong...
I definitely think it is theoretically possible to play at an NA GM level with ~50 APM, if no actions are wasted.
FinalForm
Profile Joined August 2010
United States450 Posts
August 06 2012 20:38 GMT
#5
Don't worry about apm so much, it grows in tandem with your understading of the game and how to make the appropriate decisions
ishyishy
Profile Joined February 2011
United States826 Posts
August 06 2012 20:39 GMT
#6
I might be a minority, but I have never enjoyed or have been interested in discussing APM. I feel like almost everyone talks about APM way too much. A lot of people over-value it, to the point of trying to insult other players because they have low APM in whatever league (like for example I have under 60 effective APM, but I was in masters for 3 seasons, and all i got was "how did you get to masters, you are terrible, you need 150 apm minimum for this and that, oh yu play protoss no wonder...").

When I see a caster or an observer show the APM tab in a tournament match, and they go into how much ap each player has, it actually annoys me. I would rather hear almost anything else in the beginning of a match when nothing is going on; like who the players are, who their team is, what tournaments they won in the past, etc.

I feel like you can just say "you can slow down your APM if you use it more effectively instead of mindless spam" and be done with it. What else is there to say on effective APM? You cant really teach people how to use APM by telling them on a forum or a video, the player needs to make the decision to do it. It seems like somethng you learn by doing, rather than theory crafting about it, which is another reason I dont feel like there is much to discuss about it.

Im no pro, but I dont see how APM relates to strategy at all. Obviously you cant be "too slow" because a certain skill level of mechanics is needed to play amoung the best, but in general it doesnt explain what the player is doing or is going to do during the game. I never hear "oh well if you do this build, you want around 200 apm. If you go for this build, you want 120."

This is just my opinion on the subject of your show or blog or whatever. If you can make a show with this subject interesting or entertaining, then I will be impressed lol. Good luck.
Neurosis
Profile Joined October 2010
United States893 Posts
August 06 2012 20:42 GMT
#7
On August 07 2012 05:37 yankjenets wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2012 05:21 Cyro wrote:
Macro mechanics, creep spread, injects and basic army movement is enough to put you at ~150eapm+ if you are going mid/lategame zerg, how are you going to handle that?

And also considering that 500 resources of zerglings (20 lings) moved twice will count as 40 actions, but 500 resources of roaches (5 roaches) moved twice will count as only 10 actions, how are you going to account for that? APM is a horrible measure of hand/brain speed.


If you are moving each of your lings individually, then something is seriously wrong...
I definitely think it is theoretically possible to play at an NA GM level with ~50 APM, if no actions are wasted.


They're out there, it's definitely possible. Speed is important in starcraft but first and foremost it's a strategy game. Good decision making is the most important tool to learn.
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
August 06 2012 20:42 GMT
#8
Hm, thats odd. Seems you are right, but my APM with zerg is almost three times the APM i have with protoss, i thought that was because you have more units etc at a lower cost? I play both races pretty aggressively
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
NeMeSiS3
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Canada2972 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-06 20:45:35
August 06 2012 20:45 GMT
#9
Why not just improve and get... say 50 apm, or 60... A thread on being effective while acting in a completely ineffective way is redundant and teaches bad mechanics in my opinion.

Sure, you can win, but why? That's like me saying "I can walk a mile with 1 foot, look at me it's so hard" Can you explain what really makes you think this is a good idea?
FoTG fighting!
ishyishy
Profile Joined February 2011
United States826 Posts
August 06 2012 20:56 GMT
#10
On August 07 2012 05:45 NeMeSiS3 wrote:
Why not just improve and get... say 50 apm, or 60... A thread on being effective while acting in a completely ineffective way is redundant and teaches bad mechanics in my opinion.

Sure, you can win, but why? That's like me saying "I can walk a mile with 1 foot, look at me it's so hard" Can you explain what really makes you think this is a good idea?



I agree with this.

40 APM is actually really reeally slow. I am an extremely slow player, and even I have over 50 most of the time.
Citherna
Profile Joined October 2011
United States33 Posts
August 06 2012 21:06 GMT
#11
When you play as zerg, generally you're also building more units, (perhaps that's the cause of all the extra APM for you); building 40 sets of zerglings obviously requires 40 actions, whereas building two tanks or colossi requires... well... two apm. :x.

In short, the best strategy with low apm would be a strategy that uses high-cost units, (protoss, or terran cheese with thors/banshees/trollerific stuffs :D). I don't think limiting yourself to 40 APM is necessary, just tell newbies what to do with their relatively low APM; i.e. don't focus as much on stutter-stepping, and focus on building units back at home. Good luck :D!
TheBigO
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States97 Posts
August 06 2012 21:08 GMT
#12
I think this series is a good idea for a few reasons.

First, there are a lot of people who are new at the game (yes, people still buy Starcraft 2). These people may not be used to playing an RTS game, and their mechanics will be slow. Sure, you can tell them to just "mass games' to increase their APM, but this can encourage mindless spamming and poor mechanics. If you teach them how to use their APM effectively and avoid making mistakes, they will improve their mechanics even with low APM. They will also gain valuable knowledge about how to deal with a variety of situations on the ladder. Then, as they mass games on their own, their APM can improve as well as their mechanics, and they can become better starcraft players faster.

Also, there are a lot of older people who play Starcraft 2. Generally, people who are older tend to have slower APM, and their APM tends to not increase much over time. This series can teach them to improve their game sense and their mechanics so that they can make the most out of their APM.

Overall, it is true that having 100+ APM can allow you to do much more, but APM is so much more than spamming. It is the mechanics and the game knowledge behind the APM that matters most. This series is meant to address that. That is why I approve of the series.
I really need a better quote... but I have no ideas :( .
kranten
Profile Joined January 2012
Netherlands236 Posts
August 06 2012 21:13 GMT
#13
On August 07 2012 05:42 Cyro wrote:
Hm, thats odd. Seems you are right, but my APM with zerg is almost three times the APM i have with protoss, i thought that was because you have more units etc at a lower cost? I play both races pretty aggressively


Yeah building units causes big APM spikes, and inject adds another ~20 APM on 3 injected bases.
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-06 22:06:02
August 06 2012 22:01 GMT
#14
I appreciate the feedback. It definitely shows that there was some necessary clarification which I have added to the bottom of the OP. Please read that and if you have any questions continue to post them and I will answer them.

I have also added a section called The Point for added clarification:

The Point:
If I can hold something with 40APM, you can hold it with anything >= 40APM




www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
Pylons
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada54 Posts
August 06 2012 22:08 GMT
#15
my friend, google was top 8 grandmasters with about 40 - 60 apm, so 40 apm is definitely enough to win in masters league!
Willzzz
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom774 Posts
August 06 2012 22:13 GMT
#16
Doing things right is definitely better than doing things fast. If you can do both then all the better.
RoberP
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom101 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-06 22:51:36
August 06 2012 22:43 GMT
#17
I like the idea! Definitely a great way to showcase what's important at crisis moments. Also it's cool to see people use only the actions they need to - how awesome would it be to see a pro whose every action was meaningful, whose every gesture was necessary? Finesse is sexy - the guy who wins with a single stroke is much cooler than the guy who bludgeons with 50 - of course once you have the necessary speed to execute this. One I struggled with recently:
ViKingPrime
Terran
TvP
1 rax expo, 2nd rax -> double gas -> factory -> tanks
Proxy voids + warp gate all in
Shakuras plateau.
Heavenlee
Profile Joined April 2012
United States966 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-06 22:49:58
August 06 2012 22:49 GMT
#18
I feel it's possible with toss. I'm low masters with ~120 apm atm and my build orders are not optimized as much as they could be, and I spam in the beginning. If you're efficient and everything goes down the second it needs to you can just overrun with sheer outmacroing because toss macro isn't especially difficult--probes, pylons, gas, make buildings, make units. I still don't know if 40 is possible because I still have more than that just kind of making probes, but ~60 is I guess, especially if you turtle and a-move a deathball.
Sir Z
Profile Joined August 2012
United States2 Posts
August 06 2012 23:26 GMT
#19
As a gold player with fairly low APM, and who's not really interested in spending the time doing APM drills, I'm totally interested in this.

Name: SirZ
Race: terran
Match up: TvP
Your Build: Boxer's 1 rax FE into MMM
His Build: any build that prioritizes psi storm chargelot
Specific Map?: none
Comments: biggest problem is how to efficiently use ghosts.
etherealfall
Profile Joined December 2011
Australia476 Posts
August 06 2012 23:28 GMT
#20
I really don't understand why you would advocate for settling for less mechanical skill. 40APM is incredibly slow. By simply mineral stacking, my early game APM is 110APM.
1 2 3 4 5 20 21 22 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 10h 22m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nathanias 184
StarCraft: Brood War
Larva 357
Dota 2
monkeys_forever588
capcasts177
League of Legends
Grubby4211
Counter-Strike
Fnx 2607
flusha471
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King165
AZ_Axe112
Liquid`Ken33
Other Games
tarik_tv23290
summit1g11397
gofns9011
C9.Mang0217
ViBE153
PPMD26
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick675
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 77
• RyuSc2 48
• davetesta45
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 32
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota23194
League of Legends
• Doublelift4777
• TFBlade518
Other Games
• imaqtpie1067
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
10h 22m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
14h 22m
CSO Cup
16h 22m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
18h 22m
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
1d 9h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 14h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 18h
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Online Event
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.