EPT[G] Winning With Ease - Page 4
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showBanquo
Sweden182 Posts
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bigtabs
Germany51 Posts
Race: Terran Match up: TvP Your Build: 1 rax FE into 3 rax MMM 10 min push with stim and +1 His Build: Sase's build (7 zealots, 4 sentries and 3 stalkers hit at 8 minutes, with expo behind) Specific Map?: Had this twice on cloud kingdom, but it may not matter the map. Comments: Although I have 2 full bunkers - FFs block repair and the attack is too strong to hold and my nat falls. I have a wall-off in the main but he stockpiles army in my nat while building up his worker count on 2 bases, keeps poking and I fall in the next 6-7 minutes. I can give you a couple of replays if it's not clear. | ||
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scares
Germany239 Posts
On August 08 2012 06:56 Champloo wrote: I don't think you need a lot of APM in Starcraft 2, at least not for Protoss. I have ~150 APM in WC3 and ~170 in HoN. But when I play SC2 I have around 80 APM if I don't spam a lot. There's just not much to do, you just scout and make units for most part of the game and macro doesn't need a lot of actions in SC2. I think it mostly depends on what youre opponent is doing, if he attacks you at 3 places (or drops) your apm is going to become much higher, the same will happen to him, so i still think what the opponent is doing is the main decider for max apm, and Protoss mostly just has the lowest because they USUALLY are not the ones doing the drops/multi pronged attacks | ||
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IcedBacon
Canada906 Posts
I understand the point of what you're doing isn't really along these lines, but IMO a better idea would be to help people try to improve their APM because it's really not hard to have fast hands in SC2. | ||
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R3DT1D3
285 Posts
 His low APM play alone should be enough justification for the show concept. | ||
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Absurd Bunny
168 Posts
What'll make you win is doing all of those actions as smooth as you can. Not as fast, and not as slow, but as long as it's fast enough so that you can do it without making mistakes, but not slow that you won't be able to catch up with anyone. You shouldn't strive to have low apm, but if you do and you can work with it, then do it. But if you can go faster, it's better. | ||
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MysteryTerran
United States178 Posts
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Fuego
United Kingdom166 Posts
Hope to see some Protoss videos so I can learn. | ||
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BioTech
Australia264 Posts
My APM is around 40. My wins rely upon precise timing attacks and very specific unit combinations. Most of my games are over under 30min. | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
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rezoacken
Canada2719 Posts
As far as I understand he doesn't advocate low apm as being "good enough". He is proposing to break down what crucial decisions/actions need to be done in a given situation SO THAT 40apm people can improve by knowing what is top priority. For people having more, it also has its uses as both a reminder of what is important and a way to know how to respond with a couple actions in a situation where you cannot afford to "spend" your whole 200apm in the same place. | ||
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Zenbrez
Canada5973 Posts
On August 07 2012 22:20 Frozenhelfire wrote: Your friend, google, also used blink hacks and (probably) also maphacked. He mostly relied on two base all ins in PvZ and PvT. I don't know what he did in PvP. His style was easy to execute especially coupled with his hacks. His style may not be viable anymore. Is this the same Google that used to offer coaching for 5$/hour? | ||
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MrLlama
United States454 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On August 08 2012 06:00 JinDesu wrote: I feel that this idea you are promoting is similar to what a lot of martial arts instructors teach - do it slower at first, a lot of times, to get the technique perfect. Once perfect, increase the speed and try to maintain the correct technique. If you can perfect your decision making at 40APM, then you can move onto 60APM, 80APM, 100APM, etc. In fact, getting everything perfect at 40APM can help force you to understand what you need more APM for - i.e. a midgame engagement while macro may likely need more than 40APM, and once you hit that wall you understand how to improve. Exactly. And I'm not saying 40apm is even going to be enough in situations, but I think the REASONING is enough so that you should learn it for future use when you are going to dedicate your apm. Maybe stopping a drop can be done easily with 40apm yet you are a 150 apm player. Instead of spending 120apm trying to stop the drop and then 30apm doing other things, you can dedicate 40apm to the drop (because you know exactly what each action is going to do) and then spend the other 110 pulling a counter attack or doing whatever else. On August 08 2012 06:02 Gerbilkit wrote: My question is why 40? I realize any number is somewhat arbitrary but I think there must be some reason you picked this one. I picked this because I am certain that over 99% of players can play with 40apm. So not only will it cover a broad range but it is a challenge for me too to learn what the best 40 actions are that I can make in a minute. On August 08 2012 06:08 Tom Cruise wrote: isnt 40 like ok? i play t and p at 40-60 apm average on masters but my z is maybe 80-100 (ofc this rises in combat) by "ok" I assume you're asking where it stands on the APM scale. 40apm is slow. This is intentional. This is my way to do a couple of things 1. Slow it down and go through every action I'm making so that the observer can easily follow 2. Show which decisions take precedence over others (Ex: maybe focus fire the scv building the bunker takes precedence over move your queen from your main to your natural) 3. Prove that if I can stop something with 40apm, you can not only stop it with your 100apm but still have 60apm to improve with and do even more to gain advantage! On August 08 2012 06:10 wcr.4fun wrote: might work as protoss. You can't play zerg good and have low apm. You need to spread creep, manage your injects. I'm less interested in the apm adding aspects such as spreading creep. While spreading creep is nice and definitely helps me in masters league, if someone was doing a 7gate blink stalker attack I wouldn't be making spreading in the middle of the map a priority. If you have the extra apm, that could be something that you could do but I'm going to cover the main 40actions I believe should be achieved. On August 08 2012 06:16 LJ wrote: I think it is a great idea and could help people with decision making regardless of APM so I look forward to your videos. Thank you. On August 08 2012 06:19 CruelZeratul wrote: I like the idea quite a lot. I have more than 40 APM, but often times in battles I just don't know how to use them efficiently. Then this series is for you!  On August 08 2012 06:22 SupLilSon wrote: Stephano is greatest USA bonjwa and he barely ever spreads creep (I troll I troll, but seriously, he barely spreads creep)... And realistically, injects are what, 20 APM if done efficiently? People are missing Llamma's point, which is actually common sense and 100% correct. The best way to practice and improve in anything is to isolate the simple, basic aspects and practice them rigorously. Only once you've become proficient at these individual pieces do you combine them all. A quick example is swimming and learning how to become a faster and stronger swimmer. It's very common to practice leg strokes and arm strokes separately, doing laps with only your arms for propulsion and similarly doing laps with only your legs kicking. Or take basketball for example, you learn how to shoot and you learn how to dribble separately and only after becoming proficient at both do you start to practice jump shots and lay ups. Essentially what Llamma is saying is, focus on decision making and don't worry about your speed. Once you've gotten a decent feel for the game strategically you can move on to playing faster. 500 APM doesnt mean much if you don't know how to scout effectively or how to respond to certain unit comps/strategies. Obviously vice versa, all the game knowledge in the world is useless if you can't click accurately to save your life. Essentially, I think his point is that you need to break your game down and isolate the basic pieces, strategy and mechanics. For the vast majority of us it's completely inefficient to try and improve both at the same time. Great examples. It's true, I'm trying to promote looking into every action (like I did in my Inside the Minds of Masters series with the pros) and saying, "Why do I do this over a different action?" Once you learn that, you will learn so much more. On August 08 2012 06:34 ImustnotfeaR wrote: This is a great idea. How efficient can you make each click? is basically your question. I hope you discover some cool results man! Theoretically if you discover how to hold something (for example) with 40 apm you can then work out how to get ahead at the same time with the other 100 apm perhaps? Of course the availablity of the in game resources will limit this approach.. I'm considering after a while moving the series up to "winning with 60apm" then 80apm then 100apm, showing how you can utilize all of the additional apm that you have over the original 40apm you use for decisions. This would be well into the future though I'd imagine. On August 08 2012 06:39 JKM wrote: I think 40 APM is setting the bar too low. If someone is stuck at 40 APM they should play cards or chess instead of SC2. Anyone should be able to improve their APM from 40 to atleast 60-80 by just deciding to do so, and believe it or not 60-80 allows you to reach mid master in SC2. Atleast I myself average 80-100 at 1000-1200 points in master, with protoss (previously random-player, so not just due to protoss being easier to 1a ). I think you should increase your APM bar to 60 and atleast dedicate one episode to improving your battle-APM, so that you have to capacity to engage in large battles properly without the strain of maintaining a high APM all game long. 60 is just not sufficient, unless you choose your battle ground 30 seconds in advance and start preparing flanks and such. For bio-terran it will still be impossible to engage favorably, because the easiest stutter step micro requires 100+ APM (the one where you select your bio into: mouse-click --- S (stop) ---- mouse-click away --- S (stop) --- ...) and even higher with proper stutter stepping where you go through a three click sequence requiring 150+ APM ( mouse-click --- A (attack move) --- mouse-click --- mouse-click --- A (attack move) --- ...). Another thing you could choose to focus on is avoid spamming to improve APM, have players embrace their low APM instead of artificially increasing it. If players got APM down at 40 I doubt they will see much improvement by the much hailed APM spam (the theory being, if you spam for months, you will slowly turn useless APM into useful APM), this they should achieve simply by trying to fulfill their races mechanical requirements, being building workers, maintaining steady unit production in the early-mid game. I want to isolate one thing you said "60 is just not sufficient, unless you choose your battle ground 30 seconds in advance and start preparing flanks and such." So why not do that? This is EXACTLY what I'm promoting for you to do. Start to prepare earlier, start to control the mental part of the game so much because you know more about it than your opponent. I didn't move up into high masters and start playing GMs until I started to do this where I could plan everything out, just as a chess masters plans 20 moves ahead in his game as well. As for the marine stutter step, yeah you probably can't do that with 40apm. I'm not crazy worried about showcasing amazing micro skills in those situations but rather other engagements that are more about decisions and preparation. On August 08 2012 06:45 1st_Panzer_Div. wrote: I'd say 60, you could do this, 40 maybe a little to slow, if you hit late game, you'll be breaking that easily just producing units. And it has to be impossible as zerg. I play toss main, but my APM is way higher when I play zerg, the macro mechanics just require a lot more clicking. I may make statements in the later game if necessary to allow myself to go up to 60apm for when I'm producing units. If it's something as bland and obvious as pressing "SRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR" then I feel that could be my "APM spike" On August 08 2012 06:49 BongPower wrote: I mean my my average apm is around 50-80 in a game (1v1 masterse here) but it jumps up to about 200 ~ occasionally when #$^& hits the fan. I think what seperates the pros from the not pros is they constantly keep that apm no matter what just so when they need it it's already there. Kinda the way an olympic boxer is always hoping around with his footwork, you know? Sure it's good to have the ability to jump to 200apm, but if you aren't making 200actions count, why have 200 apm? The pros make it count but they know which ones take precedence, most other people struggle to find the best decisions to make first and that's why the pros are better. Less because they have high apm (anyone can have that) and more because they truly know what decisions need to be made first. On August 08 2012 07:08 Savant7 wrote: Really good players use a lot of actions without doing anything in order to actually have more awareness of the map and check their macro (sometimes without building units) for example if the player used my hotkey setup of 4 for barracks 5 for factories and 6 for staports, and they want to constantly build out of all of them, they would be constantly hitting 456456456 while whey pressed 1 click 1 click, moving their units around the map for map control etc, to check how close the production cycles are to finishing and double tapping your CC hotkey to go back and build depots. I guess the point I'm making here is that you're not necessarily doing micro intensive strategies if you have high APM. I think something else to point out is that a lot of the apm is cycling and stuff, what if you never needed to cycle? What if someone knew the game and what was going on so well, they could simply press 4 at the perfect time and build an scv. Would their apm be higher? No. Would they be better? Probably (assuming this knowledge of the game was outside just building timings). On August 08 2012 07:20 caznitch wrote: This is an awesome idea! Thanks MrLlamaSC! Name: Caz Race: terran Match up: TvX Your Build: 1 rax FE into MMM His Build: anything Specific Map?: none Comments: I can't incorporate caster units (ghost/raven) into my play as I feel they are so APM intensive. I want to incorporate ghosts into my TvP late game but usually end up staring at the screen while they die to colossi. If you could show effective raven use that woudl be cool too though I have less ideas on when to use this unit. If you could be a little more specific with this I would love to help. Right now it is very broad and I need a build from him (is he going all in, is he going collosus for a push at X minutes? what?) I suppose I could try and just go through a build order though that will safely lead you to ghosts but I'd still like to have an idea for what he's doing. On August 08 2012 07:28 Danzo wrote: I respect your approach in how to play the game efficiently but I have to disagree. Tho spamming and useless clicking/tapping is redundant why not encourage players to play faster? 40 apm just seems way too slow and game will end forcing you into situations higher than that. I'm encouraging myself to play at 40apm, not other players. I'm encouraging other players to take 40apm of their 100apm and dedicate it to the decisions I make with the 40apm so they can see what's important, then use the remaining 60apm they have to do the rest of the things they would like to do. On August 08 2012 07:52 Blazinghand wrote: I really think 80-100 apm is all you need to hit Master League. Sure, you could probably make it in with less, and of course MORE speed never hurts, but I think the big thing is that with 40 peak apm, that's like 1 click or button press every 1.5 seconds, which strikes me as impossibly slow. Even certain basic mechanics, like stutter-stepping stalkers against non-stim Marines, takes up 40 apm on its own. How are you going to make units and probes while doing your PvT scouting poke? etc Now, obviously apm is just a measurement unit we have to measure "speed" and it is imperfect. It's just worth noting you can do quite well with low speed-- I'm a low-speed player myself. However, there's nothing wrong with working to improve your speed first, and although, yes, if you can beat someone using only 40 apm, you can beat them when you use more, the difference between 40 apm and 80 apm (assuming no spam) isn't one of magnitude, it's one of type. You simply can't macro off of more than a certain number of bases, and can't execute certain moves (such as stim-kiting) with 40 apm. You definitely can't use both. When your low speed is so slow that it prevents you from using standard strategies, it means that if you are able to do so, you should increase your speed. Some people, due to physical ability, RSI, or age, are not able to do so, and that's understandable. They do what they can. But intentionally playing slow like you're Goku training in 10x gravity so that you can turn off your gravity and kick ass isn't going to work. Goku has the ability to fly, and in 10x gravity he could still do a pushup and stuff. If you can't get over 40 apm, you can't stimkite. You're like Goku and you can't even do a pushup. "But wait Blazinghand isn't Goku a Saiyan? That means even by getting hurt, when he recovers he gets even stronger, which is why in the Time-" ok DUDE I get it, it's not a PERFECT analogy. Christ! lay off for a moment! THE POINT is that with 40 apm you can't even do the same kinds of things as normal players do, so it's not a legitimate way to play if your 40 apm is a choice rather than a restriction forced on you against your will. "but the analogy-" ok ok dude look let's go talk somewhere else about it E: but you get the point, don't feel like you gotta slow down and that'll make you better- it won't. Think of it like Chess. You can play a game of speed chess or you can play a game of chess where you take minutes to think about every move. Which one are you going to make more mistakes in and have less time to analyze each situation? If you could pause a game of starcraft every few seconds and determine your next move, you would become SUPER knowledgable about the game. That's what I'm kind of doing by dropping down to 40apm. I'm pausing the game for a quick second and looking around as opposed to trying to blaze through and do everything and not learn a situation to remember in the future. Besides, goku is a saiyan On August 08 2012 08:04 zmansman17 wrote: I really like this idea because it is hard for middle tier players to distinguish between what actions are better from a 300 apm player. This way perhaps, players have a more realistic template from which they can make their own actions. Thank you for getting it On August 08 2012 08:08 ymir233 wrote: I don't get why you can't just tell people what to do strategically and have them do it instead of being all like "yo I don't like your style of mechanically playing". Because if APM 'doesn't matter', then that's all it is. A mechanical aspect of your playing style. APM does matter. But it's the correct APM that matters. I can have 200apm but if I'm just sending units to die and building 20x overlords during fights and spreading and then cancelling creep tumors, none of it is useful. On August 08 2012 08:10 Reborn8u wrote: Apm disparities can be overcome with efficiency. Multitasking is not the same as apm, you can actually have decent multitasking with low apm. If you remember to hit all of your macro timings (mules, crono, inject, supply and production) and have your screen in the right place at the right times, you can beat much faster players. I've smashed, and out multi-tasked plenty of players with 2x or 3x my APM. The best Koreans actually have multitasking that is as good as their APM. I think that is why so many korean players are able to get through open brackets so consistently. They get on 2 bases and just out multitask their opponents with constant 2 or 3 pronged harassment and engagements. I'd like to clear up a common misconception about spam. When you see a top pro cycle through his hotkeys, they are often looking at the bottom center of their screen to see when production cycles are ending. (Cool downs on production and buildings finishing.) It often appears to be spam, but they are actually looking to see what is finishing when they are cycling. During the opening seconds it's pretty much just spam, but as soon as the first building is placed they are keeping tabs on it's completion in this manner. Correct. The pros have high apm because they have great multitasking and decision making to where they can make 200 amazing decisions with their 200apm. We have 200apm but we can only make 40-100 great decisions with it and they may not be in the correct order and thus we run into troubles of not having the decision making/knowledge necessary. On August 08 2012 08:24 NewbieOne wrote: Same, except maybe marine splitting or some crap in TvP with chargelots and storms. Otherwise the reason is almost always not insufficient APM. In my peak at WC3 TFT I played against guys with 2-3 times my APM and won, sometimes 4x. Sure, and this series isn't about marine splitting. On August 08 2012 08:28 irocksu wrote: Even if you use only 40 APM your eyes and your hands do the right thing. What I mean by that is: Especially with such low APM you will constantly look at the Minimap and instantly react to problems, like drops. You will almost never get supply stuck because you take your time to look at your supply count etc. Most of the APM are not "effective" APM. And I do not mean the Blizzard EAPM, but the real meaning of effect. Many players cycle through their production facilities, just to check on the progress of a certain unit. This is actually useful information but you do not do anything there is no "effect". You can execute your your BO without them. Everything would be more bumpy and you would not feel the comfort of complete control, but still. Another thing to consider is that even with only 40 APM you have a ton of extra knowledge. Like when to scout, what to look for how to cross out certain builds etc. An good example are push timings like 4 gate, earliest Muta, Stim 1/0 push. I do not want to talk you out of your project, but please consider this and explain those things too. There is just not that much value in someone executing a nearly perfect build with 40 APM, getting the almost perfect unit mix just to crush some Platinum player. Everybody can get a BO and execute it almost perfectly without pressure. The question is how do you know what your opponent is up to. In other words: "How should you prepare?" And a slightly less important question is how to decide where to focus at each given time. If you watch my other stuff you will see I'm ALL about game knowledge. I will be explaining everything very thoroughly so that you do not need the APM but rather just have the game knowledge. I'd recommend taking a look at my inside the minds of masters series where I go through videos and explain what they scout, what it means, what they can cancel out, etc... I'll be doing all of this because hey, we have 40apm and since it's super slow we can now think about drops coming in and supply and such. On August 08 2012 08:33 showBanquo wrote: Idk it seems like many ppl has missed the point; that you're playing slowly to show that there's a few "key actions" that are themost important and put emphasis on them. I think it sounds like a good and pedagogical starting point. Obviously 40 apm won't always be enough but again, I think it's a good idea and very encouraging for weaker players (regardless of their apm) to watch. Feels like it gives a natural in-depth analysis of all the small elements in handling certain situations (s.a. the given example with a bunker rush in the OP). Exactly right, thanks for getting it. 40apm is NOT always enough. You can't stutter step correctly with 40apm, but that's not what I'm trying to show. (though it is in the sense that at least you can learn the fact that you need more than 40apm to stutter step micro and maybe you'll learn other situations ARE possible with 40apm while you thought they would require more). On August 08 2012 08:36 bigtabs wrote: Name: tabs Race: Terran Match up: TvP Your Build: 1 rax FE into 3 rax MMM 10 min push with stim and +1 His Build: Sase's build (7 zealots, 4 sentries and 3 stalkers hit at 8 minutes, with expo behind) Specific Map?: Had this twice on cloud kingdom, but it may not matter the map. Comments: Although I have 2 full bunkers - FFs block repair and the attack is too strong to hold and my nat falls. I have a wall-off in the main but he stockpiles army in my nat while building up his worker count on 2 bases, keeps poking and I fall in the next 6-7 minutes. I can give you a couple of replays if it's not clear. This is a good example of how to fill out the form. I'll make sure to get you something. On August 08 2012 09:21 IcedBacon wrote: There is no point in intentionally being slow. Like yes, you could perform at a fairly high level with 60APM or so if you know what you're doing, but there's a reason all the pros play at 300+. More APM means more potential actions you have to do things you want. Sure some people read too much into APM, but I also hate the people that try and say it doesn't matter, or try to support low APM. Higher APM will always be better as long as you're not inflating it for the sake of it being higher and making more mistakes because of it. I understand the point of what you're doing isn't really along these lines, but IMO a better idea would be to help people try to improve their APM because it's really not hard to have fast hands in SC2. If I mindlessly get people to improve their APM and have "fast hands" then I am not teaching much at all. In boxing it's not the guy who throws the most punches who wins, but the guy who throws the most efficient punches. Learn what Actions count, use those the most, and you're golden. On August 08 2012 09:39 Absurd Bunny wrote: You're not getting any better with over 200+ apm, you're not going to do well with 40 apm or less, if you try. What'll make you win is doing all of those actions as smooth as you can. Not as fast, and not as slow, but as long as it's fast enough so that you can do it without making mistakes, but not slow that you won't be able to catch up with anyone. You shouldn't strive to have low apm, but if you do and you can work with it, then do it. But if you can go faster, it's better. This is a true statement, and I think players should have more than 40apm, but I think they should realize why they need more than 40apm and what they can actually do with it. Will it take 40apm to deal with a drop or 110apm? If you know, you can allocate it differently and be in a great position as opposed to completely tied up using too much apm in one spot. On August 08 2012 09:50 Fuego wrote: I really like this idea - I average around 90-100APM but I know full well that I am not efficient with it. This would really help me learn the most important stuff to be focusing on, before then using my 'excess' APM to do the extra, less important stuff. Hope to see some Protoss videos so I can learn. Good to know I'll be doing all races so don't worry about that.On August 08 2012 10:00 BioTech wrote: Im 38, Im currently diamond top 8, but have been in Masters twice. Whilst in Masters Ive beaten GMs, maybe 5-6 victories ever. My APM is around 40. My wins rely upon precise timing attacks and very specific unit combinations. Most of my games are over under 30min. Sounds a lot like what I'm trying to teach. With good knowledge of the game you can overcome speed. Of course both are better together but I think learning about the game should be #1 On August 08 2012 10:09 sAsImre wrote: I think Mvp said it the best: apm are all about your brain, MysteryTerran mentions hand-eye coordination and it's utter bullshit. Almost everyone can achieve high apm, but the hardest is to think about all those useful actions you're going to do. A simple exemple is terran macro: you've to do production circles and once you've interiorised it you'll do it without thinking, leaving room for other moves. Well said. On August 08 2012 10:20 rezoacken wrote: Is it me or was the point of this thread completely missed by some ? As far as I understand he doesn't advocate low apm as being "good enough". He is proposing to break down what crucial decisions/actions need to be done in a given situation SO THAT 40apm people can improve by knowing what is top priority. For people having more, it also has its uses as both a reminder of what is important and a way to know how to respond with a couple actions in a situation where you cannot afford to "spend" your whole 200apm in the same place. Bingo! knowing top priority is exactly what I'm trying to get at. I hope I answered every question! | ||
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Dubsy
Canada186 Posts
Hmmm, maybe that's why I'm bad as Z... but I don't think so. I think the entire starcraft world would be shocked how good you can play at a ridiculously low apm. EAPM is still a really awful judge of effectiveness because "effective" realistically means more than "not just spam". I hope the OP is actually really good, you could definitely beat some seriously good players hovering around 30-40APM and spiking it up to the mid 1 or 2 hundreds when needed. | ||
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Vansetsu
United States1454 Posts
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Formula
Australia15 Posts
In support of this, I propose something that I've lost to a couple of times, mostly through bad scouting. Name: Formula (in game, beLIEve) Race: Random Match up: ZvP Your Build: fast 3 base into roach/ling, with upgrades (stephano style) His Build: 1-base Colossus (all in), hitting before 10:00 /10:30 Specific Map?: happened twice on Condemned ridge, and once on two other maps. Map doesn't really matter Comments:I am aware that good scouting should prevent this, and I could have stopped it with better macro, but at 50 APM, 'better macro' is a relative term, and better decisions would seem to me to be a better solution P.S. How are so many people claiming to be Masters Leauge? I though only 2% of each reigons ladder could be Masters. I think alot of people are trying to show of their e-penis a bit too much here. This is about learning. Bugger off with your "I have 200 apm, you need 200 apm to be any good." oh yeah? Look at Goody. That is all. | ||
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MrLlama
United States454 Posts
On August 08 2012 11:02 Formula wrote: I think this is a really good idea. APM efficiency is what makes APM actually valuable. Right now, near the top of Gold, I am averaging 50 APM, and I crush some opponents who have up to 120 APM. It's all about what you do with what you have. Just ask Cave Johnson. In support of this, I propose something that I've lost to a couple of times, mostly through bad scouting. Name: Formula (in game, beLIEve) Race: Random Match up: ZvP Your Build: fast 3 base into roach/ling, with upgrades (stephano style) His Build: 1-base Colossus (all in), hitting before 10:00 /10:30 Specific Map?: happened twice on Condemned ridge, and once on two other maps. Map doesn't really matter Comments:I am aware that good scouting should prevent this, and I could have stopped it with better macro, but at 50 APM, 'better macro' is a relative term, and better decisions would seem to me to be a better solution P.S. How are so many people claiming to be Masters Leauge? I though only 2% of each reigons ladder could be Masters. I think alot of people are trying to show of their e-penis a bit too much here. This is about learning. Bugger off with your "I have 200 apm, you need 200 apm to be any good." oh yeah? Look at Goody. That is all. I can already tell you this: If he is sticking on one base you cannot go to 3 bases. If he actually waits until 10:30 to attack then maybe you actually could and hold it, but generally they would not wait that long and would hit earlier so you should stick on 2 bases for longer and get an army to prepare instead of macroing up a 3rd base. | ||
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
Maybe make it 70-80 apm. When I started I had about 80 apm after about 3 weeks or something. | ||
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Jonas :)
United States511 Posts
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-_-Quails
Australia796 Posts
On August 07 2012 05:56 ishyishy wrote: I agree with this. 40 APM is actually really reeally slow. I am an extremely slow player, and even I have over 50 most of the time. I started off playing at a significantly lower apm than that, and my apm dropped below that again once I realised that there is an attack move command and units not moving will autoattack. Playing against zerglings was a lot of fun before I knew you could attack without indiviually selecting targets. | ||
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