EPTAs far as I am concerned Goodkarmas post after the night post was a null tell. It certainly wasn't enough to be considered one of the two reasons to vote GK after just unvoting him. Using that as a tell or whatever is just a huge stretch to me.
Newbie Mini Mafia XXII - Page 31
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DarthPunk
Australia10847 Posts
As far as I am concerned Goodkarmas post after the night post was a null tell. It certainly wasn't enough to be considered one of the two reasons to vote GK after just unvoting him. Using that as a tell or whatever is just a huge stretch to me. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10847 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Zorkmid
4410 Posts
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
While I think that goodkarma's case was a little stretched in some points (the word choice part especially), overall I can agree with it. DarthPunk's case was well written, the only thing I feel missing is something I stated earlier and to which Promethelax has not commented yet as well: On July 31 2012 19:13 Ange777 wrote: as opposed to this So you are not willing to share information that might help you to prove your town status and therefore help town to rule out one possible scum candidate? (Fake) claiming? He suspects goodkarma for withholding information. Now he does the exact same. I can't think of a reason to imply a blue role without going through with it and actually claim. Furthermore I think we all know that claiming to be townie is not exactly the most convincing way to get town cred. Just have a look at how badly Golbat's defense being a newbie townie was taken. Promethelax' last post: On July 31 2012 18:45 Promethelax wrote: @DarthPunk My day two play is how I play the game when I have enough time. I'm glad you found my day one helpful and I'll try to replicate the strength of the cases I built but you'll note that d1 I had my SS case and since that point I have made others which are at least as strong (in my eyes stronger). I honestly don't feel that I am jumping up and down saying “oooh me I'm green! I'm green!” I am explaining the reasons for my play and my actions. As I said there are three goals that I have as a townie. We as town do win through living and having more obvious townies is a huge asset that is why Mason is an incredibly strong role. I'm going to stop harping on about my work and real life, when I'm here I am here and will be posting in a way that helps town you will have to decide for yourself if there is a scum agenda or a town one in my posts. As long as you promise to read over everything I say with no confirmation bias I welcome your FoS. Keep an eye on me and my actions should prove my alignment to you. I have an explanation for the buddying thing that you are unhappy with that I will reveal before the end of the night cycle. It has a good motivation and I promise town that I will explain it before the end of n2. You mentioned "town" six times. And this is after you explained previously that the constant mention of town was supposed to be a joke. Still joking? This is anti town play. Pro town play would be to stop the constant mentioning of being a townie town and instead hunt for scum. Which I am sure you would have had time to do if you had not been busy claiming town. Given the obvious contradiction in Promethelax' play: ##Vote Promethelax | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
I will say that his cases in this game, compared to his cases in XIX where he was scum, are 100% better. To use his own terms from the end of XIX: "I liked my pants-on-head retarded connection theories." There is one similarity from XIX and this game that I will mention that I haven't before. In day 1 on XIX, he pushed a case on another townie really hard, and then after day 1 he virtually quit mentioning it for no reason. Or rather, mentioned it a few times but without any real conviction or pressure. It kind of feels like the same thing he's done to Shady in this game. | ||
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Zorkmid
4410 Posts
On August 01 2012 03:41 Ange777 wrote: We have almost only 2 hours left till deadline and 6 guys still haven't voted yet ... Sad shit. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
I don't know how many games Promethelax has played but it can't be more than 4. This isn't a very convincing basis for a meta read. | ||
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Zorkmid
4410 Posts
I have to say, that if 5 people don't vote, and the game mods do nothing about it, I'm going to lose interest in this game BIG TIME. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
I may consolidate just to avoid a no-lynch if I have to, but for now: ##Vote goodkarma | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
Promethelax (4): goodkarma, Zorkmid, DarthPunk, Ange777 goodkarma (2): Promethelax, Keirathi Shady Sands (1): Obvious.660 Zorkmid (0): Yet to vote: MrMedic, aRyuujin, alan333, Mordanis, Shady Sands With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch! Currently no-one is set to be lynched. Deadline in just under 2 hours. | ||
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
On August 01 2012 04:00 Keirathi wrote: EBWOP: In fact, I'll vote now. I may consolidate just to avoid a no-lynch if I have to, but for now: ##Vote goodkarma Could you give me your reasoning for this vote? I quickly skimmed through your filter to look for your suspicions against goodkarma and only found the following: - pushing for lurker lynches - not immediately telling us his second scum read - the "in retrospect" thing I feel his posting has improved a lot in comparison to earlier, he did reveal his second scum read later on and well about the "in restrospect" thing, I guess this is just whether you are willing to give him the benefit of doubt. Compared to this I think the case on Promethelax is much more stronger. Is the meta read the only thing that is keeping you from voting him? | ||
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
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alan133
Malaysia159 Posts
I was going through Zorkmid's and Goodkarma's filter since they seems to be the other lynch candidates. @Zorkmid I personally am not a big fan of his sudden disappearance. He later reappears twice: once to post one case on Golbat and Mordanis each using arguments that were mostly already laid out by other players, another one is to vote Golbat. His day 2 post were much better. There are more reads, but he rarely follows up. His "hostile" reaction when pressured reminded me too much of a mislynch that I am partially responsible for. Someone reacted hostilely towards a case against me that include personal attacks. I recognize this as a scum trait and posted another case on him because of it later- then he flipped town. I am incline to think this is somehow a townie trait: Dismissing WIFOM, I assume scum would be more cautious about his/her case and would want to maintain a "healthy" relations towards other players. TL:DR I am not a big fan of lynching Zork right now, but I will keep tab on him @Goodkarma My impression on him was that he has a stance on lurkers and seems like he plays to get rid of them. I don't see his posts as "trying to create noise for town". He did state his policy clearly and it does not betray the way he approaches the game in day 1. I have a null read on day 2. That is because he is mostly defending himself against people who build cases on him based on his publicly announced lynch policy. While I personally disagree with focusing on lurkers when there are already candidates out there, his case on Promethelax was not only based on his policy, but has shifted to actual scum hunting play. However, I am vary of "friendly" posts like these: + Show Spoiler + @alan: Thanks so much for this advice! This is exactly the kind I needed to hear. My concern with giving multiple suspects was more along the lines of what if one of those people is guilty and the other two are innocent? The guilty party has the strongest scum read. Wouldn't giving multiple suspects just make it easier for the mafia to get behind one of the two innocent lynch targets, than if you stuck with the person you consider most suspicious? But you suggest from actual in-game experience that only giving one player may be even more damaging when you have multiple scum reads... I can follow your line of reasoning, and can agree with it. I understand that Prox is looking for more transparency from me, and I feel that presenting an arguement like alan's would have been more helpful than tossing his vote. The reason for keeping my suspects "mysterious" is this fear that the mafia can use that list against town. While I don't think I played poorly other than messing up names twice and have poor grammar/general language skills, and last time I check I am not a 100% confirmed townie, and only scums know a person's alignment. I am not pushing a case based on one silly speculation, but If you're town sided, letting your guard down does not help. TL;DR I don't find goodkarma as scummy as some of you has paint him in, and I don't fancy lynching him @Shady Sands I saw your post about your brother. I hope everything's fine. I would like you to look at my case against you, and post a defence when you are available. However, you can ignore the argument where I said you were lurking in day 2 as it seems like you have a legit reason. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=353315¤tpage=27#525 That said, I believe Shady Sands is still scummy based on his day 1 play. I will look at Promethelax's filter because it seems like he is set to be lynched. @Promethelax I don't have a deep impression on him. Back in my mind he posted a lot of fluffs but I didn't pay much attention to him since he seems to agree with my reads (at least about Shady) The people he has a scum read in two in-game days is Shady and Goodkarma. That's about 5-6 post spent in about He stays away from Mordanis and Golbat's cases dismissing them as "two player OMGUSing each other". I have to admit Golbat's play was not the best, what makes him so sure about their alignment? I find Promethelax a bit "too trusting". Ryu was posting in haik.. poems. I did not comment on it as he stopped pretty soon. I believe scums could easily twist town Ryu's words while scum Ryu can twist around his own words to cover his slips. Promethelax seems to be okay with it. Also, I couldn't help but notice his buddying up Keir. He claims he has an explanation for that and will post it before the end of night 2. I don't buy it. As far as I know he was the one who was after Goodkarma hiding his "mystery suspect". I know this is in different context, but I believe having a "mystery reason" to be "revealed" after the day lynch (so don't lynch me) is just as bad. I know other players has mentioned it, but the "town ring" thing he posted seemed very suggestive. He went so far as to dismiss it as a joke, which I strongly dislike. I believe making jokes are bad, it leaves up a lot of room for interpretation, and a scum player can always claim they were joking about something that said which is scummy. I deem Promethelax's passive lurking, non committal cases, friendly attitude and general bad play to be very scummy, in fact, reminds me a lot of the last scum that we never caught in my last game. ##vote: Promethelax | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On August 01 2012 04:09 Ange777 wrote: Could you give me your reasoning for this vote? I quickly skimmed through your filter to look for your suspicions against goodkarma and only found the following: - pushing for lurker lynches - not immediately telling us his second scum read - the "in retrospect" thing I feel his posting has improved a lot in comparison to earlier, he did reveal his second scum read later on and well about the "in restrospect" thing, I guess this is just whether you are willing to give him the benefit of doubt. Compared to this I think the case on Promethelax is much more stronger. Is the meta read the only thing that is keeping you from voting him? That's basically it. I still don't think there's a justifiable reason for him interrupting conversations in day 1 to push that we should lynch lurkers. Not posting his scum reads at night is a big red-flag as well. He waited until other people had already made their day2 cases before he posted his. I still think if he had reads before night ended, then the only reason not to post them is if you are unafraid of being NK'd. As far as Promethelax, yea its mostly meta. And honestly its not a strong conviction. I feel like a lot of his play this game has been similar to his play as scum in XIX. But his scum play in XIX was so pro-town, that I'm not sure how a real town Promethelax would actually play. I would assume it couldn't actually be that much different, just in the quality of his cases, and I do think they have improved. | ||
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