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I think it's fairly obvious that Artanis has been pushing town objectives the entire game. He has been the most active town player and has consistently questioned peoples' motives. The only person who's tried harder to find scum may have been BH. If Artanis is still alive when there's only 1 scum left, that's when whoever's left needs to go back and figure out how the hell he's lived that long because I don't think scum would take the chance.
I think zelblade is grasping for straws with his case and we've nailed scum here.
While I do find MrZentor suspicious this game, I always find him suspicious. I just read a quote from another game he's playing in and apparently he's been lynched by town in almost every game he's rolled town. I don't think that I would take the gamble on him at MYLO.
That being said, I've seen MrZentor's abilities to drop some analysis. He needs to post some good shit soon.
@Navillus: What makes MrZentor more scummy than any town game you've seen him play in?
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Where the hell is everyone?
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Should have time to catch up on the thread in about an hour.
@zelblade: You spent a good portion of this game pushing Furerkip. What are your thoughts on Palmar?
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We need people to get on the zelblade lynch. We can't risk a no-lynch.
What do you guys think about Navillus? I think that his vote post makes little sense. Artanis already pointed this out. He also had this other strange vote post that I analyzed here.
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BH was right, we shouldn't have lynched him.
lolololjkjkjk
But his case on Zelblade isn't half bad. People complain about meta a lot, but it's a good place to start looking for scum. Examining his actions this game, you can easily see how a scum could do the things he did. He spends most of the game lurking and playing pretty poorly.
That, and his reaction to the wagon forming on him isn't the least bit townie. If Zelblade truly was town, his mislynch would mean him and the town lose the game. Why isn't he the least bit panicked? If my mislynch was going to end the game, I'd be pissed. I think Zelblade can't argue his innocence because he's not, and he knows it.
##vote zelblade
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@BH: <3
@Shraft: Navillus is on my short list of people I still need to look into. I should be back later, and I'll look into him then.
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I'm not going to be redundant.
The reasons for Zelblade's guilt have been thoroughly exhausted.
##Vote : Zelblade
Oh, and I'd be delighted to destroy any case anybody tries to make against me.
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Well apparently this is over. Sorry town this loss is on me.
@ghost
My primary reason for pushing the furekip thing was because of the 4 scum thing. Since the game would obviously be over if there was 4 scum im naturally dropping it. His posting and attitude thus far reminds me of town palmar but im fairly unsure.
I also typically remain calm in games with one exception where I raged. Meh. Obviously I am fairly annoyed about the situation, but spamming about how lynching me will lead to towns loss does nothing except shit up the thread.
Since I apparently managed to miss responding to BH's part 2 earlier.
[spoiler]On June 13 2012 05:24 Blazinghand wrote:I'll be glad to take another look at Zelblade's filter. In terms of him putting in extra effort to "appear" green, here's what jumps out at me, plus some other scumminess: He contradicts himself on FK's innocence following a "scumslip": link1, link2Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:49 zelblade wrote:
I took his word for it and didnt check the OP -_-
I dont think that him claiming that there was 4 scum is scummy since its a somewhat plausible assumption and may be the norm where he plays, but him lying about it being in the op is just...
Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:52 zelblade wrote:
I am actually willing to lynch furekip based on that alone. As said, there is no townie reasoning possible to lie about something like that. Sure scumslips are usually made by townies but I dont think that they would lie about their reasoning like this. The only problem with this is that it is so dumb as mafia too -_-
So furekip why did you lie about it? This (link) strikes me as kinda a dumb question that implies "oh, I don't know if RB stops mafia NK, since I am a town player who didn't know what took place last night" by asking it. Subtle attempt at towncred.
There's also some weirdness regarding his transition from thinking I'm innocent to thinking I'm guilty D2. I think Zelblade wanted to appear to be gradually convinced, but he kinda fucked it up. Check it out. June 09 00:03 KST (link)Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 00:03 zelblade wrote:
Main reason I trusted BH's claim was that I didnt think that he would do it as scum.
//snip//
He could have pulled the SK card after mislynching hyaach in this case, but it was very unlikely that it would have worked considering how he didnt exactly look stellar either. Scum probably isnt willing to pull off this sort of trade d2. (I THINK)
There are a lot of things regarding BH that seem off to me though, will explain more on that tomorrow. So, this looks like a somewhat undecided zelblade. Things "seem off" to him-- zelblade wants to setup his change of heart. Now, 10 hours later: (link) we see hm asking me about my meta (an issue that has been the case since early D1, but had somewhat subsided by D2). Clearly, my meta is on his mind, and, as he mentions in his vote post (link), the same scummy vote post I mentioned earlier, he's voting me because of these meta issues that Ghost brought to the forefront. Now, this is really weird. Because Ghost didn't bring up the meta issues until June 09 08:00 KST. Other than the meta issues, Zelblade doesn't mention the reasons he had 8 hours prior to ghosts post, whne he said Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 00:03 zelblade wrote: There are a lot of things regarding BH that seem off to me though, will explain more on that tomorrow. This is super scummy. He actually didn't have any reasons, he wanted for another player to put some forwards, then hid in the shadow of those reasons, and made an unbelievably scummy vote post that hedged either way. Why that vote post? He's Mafia. He knew during D2, after his team shot me and failed, that I was either the JKed or I was an SK. After my vigi claim and Hyaach's JK claim, he knew for sure that I was the SK, since Hyaach JKed VE. He had to write a post that he could backtrack after either of us flipped. He wrote this way because he knew exactly who was who after the roleclaims. He hid in the shadow of Ghost.
The first part about furekip is obviouslly bullshit since its fairly clear I said assuming 4 scum is not that scummy, but claiming that that information is in the main page when its not is scummy.
The question is a nulltell. Obviously scum can do it, but it was just me clarifying stuff.
On the ghost meta thing I was sleeping in that period of time. I didnt actually mention it before I went to sleep since I was tired and feeling lazy. I also have no clue why scum would decide to switch from hyaach to BH for no reason when neither lynch would bring any cred come D3.
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Looks like I derped and missed a spoiler. Oh well.
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On June 15 2012 03:40 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 18:47 zelblade wrote:
The last part regarding my day 2 vote stuff. Hyaach gave me scummy vibes all through day 1, primilarly due to his first couple of posts which I felt were odd as well as a couple of other things. Which is also why at the start of day 2 I trusted blazinghand over hyaach - simply because I felt BH looked much better as opposed to hyaach. When hyaach's JK claim came, I was obviously suspicious of it due to the fact that it could be "confirmed" by using the mafia RB, as well as the fact that towns were unlikely to lynch claimed medics (which was, as he said, what he esentially was in this setup due to a lack of medics.) (Note that I am aware this isnt really the case in TL towns, but hyaach played somewhere else where this might have been the case, assumption here.)
However, what made me doubt myself regarding my read on hyaach and BH was a couple of things. First off ghost's post on BH's meta made me realise that BH's posting as compared to his meta was pretty different, and there was something fishy with how he reacted to the claim (I did consider this earlier but thought that it was possible that he was hiding the fact that he was actually a vig, only later realising that his reaction was instant, which was actually pretty suspicious), as well as me rereading hyaach's filter. Hyaach's posting in d2 made me feel that he was more off an annoyed townie rather than scum. It was more of a gut feel of course. So why didn't you say this immediately? As it stands, you gave reasons for why Hyaach is scummy yet you ended up voting for BH. This did not change regardless of how you explain it afterwards. Why didn't you post these reasons when you voted for BH? If you had these reasons before you could've posted them. If you're making them up now it means you didn't have them when you were deciding on your vote which would still make your vote scummy as hell.
Actually I did mention my reasons for why BH looked scummy as well. Oh its definately jumbled up but its in there.
Show nested quote +And yes I did think that 1 of BH or hyaach had to be scum. Because I didnt realise how SK interacted with being roleblocked till later on, and I didnt actually consider that possibility.
The primary reason why I felt the need to I needed to "fill myself with doubt" was because I was extermely unsure. There were things that made both of you look town, as well as things that made you two look scum, and I took a fairly long time to decide which one of you is scum. I find your meta agurement here weak, since I havent exactly been put in a (what I thought) was a 1-1 trade situation as town, and in a spot where I felt extemely unsure between two candidates. Yeah, who would've thought an SK would not be able to kill if he got RBed. That makes a lot of sense.
I cant tell if this is sacarsm. If it is I just played PYP wherein SK's shot would not get blocked if he got RB'd, but his bulletproof would be gone, which happens to be completely different from this game.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 14 2012 06:49 Snarfs wrote:On zelblade, there are two things that make me think that he's the best chance at hitting scum we have tomorrow (that have happened in this game, much of what blazinghand said in his case was meta and I think Artanis showed just how biased meta can be): The first one was the wishy washy post where he ends up voting blazinghand. BH and Artanis have discussed this already and I agree with them that there seemed to be quite a bit of cognitive dissonance between his thoughts and his vote. For reference, the post is here: [ click] The second thing I noticed when reading zelblade was his strange insistence that claiming that there are 4 mafia in the game was a reason to lynch furerkip. Zelblade's reasoning wasn't that furer had scumslipped, but rather that furer had claimed that something was in the OP when it wasn't. This misrepresents what furer said though as he doesn't claim anywhere that it says in the OP that there are 4 mafia.: First he tries to push the idea that furer claimed that it listed 4 mafia in the OP even though that's not what ghost says. ghost claims that "It could be an extrapolation, or it could be a scumslip". I personally don't think that scum would ever blatantly lie and believe that furer was guessing the number of scum based on the number of roles available. I find it very hard to believe that anyone actually thought he was saying that it literally says in the OP that there were 4 max scum: Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:49 zelblade wrote:On June 06 2012 22:40 ghost_403 wrote:The post that I had originally thought was most scummy from Furer was this one. I don't like the fact that he says he's going to back off on VE since no one is jumping on his bandwagon. However, upon further reflection, I think he did exactly what I would have done in the situation: state that he still thought VE was scummy and move on to doing something else. I don't think that he's nearly as scummy after giving it further thought. This post still bothers me a little: On June 05 2012 07:38 furerkip wrote:
If you are wondering where I got 4 from, it's from the maximum amount of mafia as you can see on the 1st page. I've checked the first page, and it doesn't say how many scum are in the game. It could be an extrapolation, or it could be a scumslip. If he does flip scum, I would assume that there are either four scum total, or, more likely, three scum and a serial killer. I still don't like his stances on mislynches outside of LYLO, but that could be easily attributed to him learning to play outside of TL. tl;dr: I was wrong, and my read on him has gone from scum to null. Wait what? I took his word for it and didnt check the OP -_- I dont think that him claiming that there was 4 scum is scummy since its a somewhat plausible assumption and may be the norm where he plays, but him lying about it being in the op is just... Then, zelblade attempts to gain support from other players for a furer lynch. He hardly tries to pressure furer at all and is waiting for others to jump on the wagon first: Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:52 zelblade wrote:
I am actually willing to lynch furekip based on that alone. As said, there is no townie reasoning possible to lie about something like that. Sure scumslips are usually made by townies but I dont think that they would lie about their reasoning like this. The only problem with this is that it is so dumb as mafia too -_-
So furekip why did you lie about it? He then continues to try and push furerkip for the next 3 days even though he has clearly disappeared from the game and would be perfect scum bait for a mislynch: Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 17:50 zelblade wrote:
Also I want to lynch furekip if he doesnt give a good explanation for lying about the mafia team numbers thing. Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 11:13 zelblade wrote:
Well at least this flip gives us quite a decent bit of info.
Furekip and bh should be our next 2 lynches. Thoughts? The first part I covered above. Regarding the second part, from furekips phrasing I think it is pretty clear that he said that the front page stated that there was 4 mafia, when it clearly didnt. I found it exceedingly odd primilarly because there is absoulutely no reason for any townie whatsoever to lie about it, whilst there is a least a probable scum reason to claim something like this (to cover a scumslip). Obviously this doesnt hold water anymore considering that we have 8 players and the game isnt over yet.
I found that post of his strange as well and I can't blame you for finding it suspicious. However, you implied you didn't think Meta was important. Yet in the first part of your defense you note Show nested quote +First off ghost's post on BH's meta made me realise that BH's posting as compared to his meta was pretty different I'm curious. Do you think meta is important or not? If you do, there clearly are some similarities to how you played as scum in LI in regards of attempting to showcase yourself as town, where you didn't in MTG mafia. If you don't, then your argument for BH being scummy because of meta goes right out of the water. You can't have the cake and eat it too.
Meta is useful in certain cases. I think it worked pretty well in BH's case, though it isnt exactly going to work well in mine. The things that have been pointed out on me by BH are fairly small and unconclusive imo, which can be easily seen when I flip =/
My playstyle is generally is to just go with the flow and post whatever I feel like whenever I feel like regardless of alignment.
By the way, artansis, I highly doubt that you find BH's points on me as the strongest case.
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Goddammit I hate dealing with format issues.
I guess its exteremely unlikely at this point for anyone else other than me. I still do feel artansis is my strongest scumread. Relatively sure scum pushed my lynch early today =/
I'll be around at the deadline to change my vote if need be though.
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Day 4 Vote Count
zelblade (5)
Snarfs
Artanis[Xp]
Shraft
ghost_403
MrZentor
Artanis[Xp] (1)
zelblade
MrZentor (1)
Navillus
zelblade is currently set to be lynched. The day ends in 6 hours at 22:00 GMT (+00:00). With 8 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
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@Palmar, Navillus: You guys on board with this or you think we're doing something horribly horribly wrong?
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Actually I did mention my reasons for why BH looked scummy as well. Oh its definately jumbled up but its in there.
Yes, you mentioned meta. Applying that same meta to you makes you look scummy too.
I cant tell if this is sacarsm. If it is I just played PYP wherein SK's shot would not get blocked if he got RB'd, but his bulletproof would be gone, which happens to be completely different from this game.
Yes, it was sarcasm. The standard for a SK getting roleblocked is.. getting his shot blocked. I presumed that was obvious.
Meta is useful in certain cases. I think it worked pretty well in BH's case, though it isnt exactly going to work well in mine. The things that have been pointed out on me by BH are fairly small and unconclusive imo, which can be easily seen when I flip =/
My playstyle is generally is to just go with the flow and post whatever I feel like whenever I feel like regardless of alignment.
By the way, artansis, I highly doubt that you find BH's points on me as the strongest case.
So meta works when it's someone else, but it doesn't work when it's about you? That's some fancy piece of logic right there. I really hope this isn't the best defense you have. And yes, I do find you the strongest case. You're not doing much to make me think otherwise.
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Also, you haven't actually refuted any of the points I made in my defense, yet continue to call me the strongest case. Why?
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Night 4
zelblade, the Vanilla Townie, was lynched.
Palmar, the Mafia Goon, was modkilled.
23 hours, until 21:00 GMT (+00:00) to get in your night actions. One hour of night action resolution to follow in which posting is allowed but actions may not be changed. No actions will be accepted after the deadline, which again, is exactly an hour before the night deadline. Please remember to send your actions to both EchelonTee and me.
Please save all discussion of modkills till after the game ends.
+ Show Spoiler [Final Vote Count] +Day 4 Vote Count zelblade (5)Snarfs Artanis[Xp] Shraft ghost_403 MrZentor Artanis[Xp] (1)zelblade MrZentor (1)Navillus
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Actually suspected Palmar quite a bit already dude to the furer post and him claiming he was "basically confirmed town" which is something town shouldn't do, as well as the wifom thing about 5 people that aren't him voting. Now we at least have a lead on where to continue. Surprised that zelblade didn't flip mafia, but at least we have someone to go from. The zelblade wagon did form a bit too easily and now we know why. This clears Navillus a little bit.
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Gl town sorry for my bad play.
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I'll take it! haha seriously he shoulda been modkilled like night 1 anyways. Guess VE was right about that one 
Gonna give the thread a reread tonight/tomorrow morning when I have time before the deadline.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1cFc0.jpg)
