EPT[?] Spades hacking? - Page 30
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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here 10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here. 08:47 KST - Summary: Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) | ||
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Berceno
Spain401 Posts
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LRObot
United States153 Posts
On June 05 2012 07:32 mcleod wrote: uhh when u play thousands upon thousands of games of sc2, you learn where people attack, when they attack and how your units should be positioned. Spades even stated he studied Lucifrons games vs Thorzain. theres no evidence here of any hacking Um, no. All the experience in the world cannot relieve you from the need for scouting. From what I saw, a lot of correct decisions were made with imperfect (no) information beforehand. | ||
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Artok
Netherlands2219 Posts
On June 05 2012 07:47 halfies wrote: while i agree with you in theory, if you were losing to hide the fact that you hacked, you probably wouldn't hack in those games. so your argument is kind of completely stupid. what did he win with maphacking? | ||
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Capped
United Kingdom7236 Posts
On June 05 2012 07:47 halfies wrote: while i agree with you in theory, if you were losing to hide the fact that you hacked, you probably wouldn't hack in those games. so your argument is kind of completely stupid. Its more then likely someones gameplay would be hugely effected by when they were and werent hacking, It would look VERY different. It would be even more apparent that he was a hacker if one minute he got crushed by Incontrol, then he facesmashed Nestea. (Sorry Inc, your still a boss <3) Using the hack as a constant and identifing how to subtly throw games or make it look less apparent that his gameplay had changed is probably something a hacker at this high a level would practice. I DO NOT AGREE SPADES IS A HACKER IT HAS NOT BEEN PROVEN. | ||
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intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
On June 05 2012 07:49 SeaSwift wrote: Reposting this so people look at it. There is an easy solution to this. Spades, upload a whole bunch of your most recent games (no cherrypicking) from before today. There is no reason why this would be bad for you if you are not hacking (revealing secret strats from a mediocre NA pro isn't exactly ground-shaking). If you refuse to or dodge it, or cherry-pick certain replays, you will look guilty as hell. If you upload them, and there is no evidence of maphacking, the situation becomes significantly less damaging to your career. I fail to see why the internet is entitled to his previous games when this incident isn't even proven. He might've just been good at reading his opponent in this showmatch and your conditions basically force the guy to show all his games and prepared strats or whatever when there isn't clear proof that he's a hacker. | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
On June 05 2012 07:49 SeaSwift wrote: Reposting this so people look at it. There is an easy solution to this. Spades, upload a whole bunch of your most recent games (no cherrypicking) from before today. There is no reason why this would be bad for you if you are not hacking (revealing secret strats from a mediocre NA pro isn't exactly ground-shaking). If you refuse to or dodge it, or cherry-pick certain replays, you will look guilty as hell. If you upload them, and there is no evidence of maphacking, the situation becomes significantly less damaging to your career. Always good when the burden of proof goes onto the accused. The community really is destructive as hell, kind of sad how things have evolved. | ||
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Windwaker
Germany1597 Posts
On June 05 2012 07:43 Mobsy wrote: You'd have to be quite naive to think a hacker couldn't lose... IdrA used to beat impa the GM hacker all the time without even knowing he hacked until iNcontroL said something. maphacking against zerg isnt really usefull like against terran or zerg. but hackers are fuckin aweful and stupid,thats why the need hacks, i guess to the topic:Truth will come out!!!! (hopefully) | ||
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rufflesQueso
100 Posts
On June 05 2012 07:50 Berceno wrote: I think that he hacks, I'm almost sure, I dont even know why is he playing sc2 after using maphacks in BW, He doesn't have my respect and even if he play without hacks that showmatch, I won't respect him never, just a hacker "I think he hacks -> He's a hacker". What kind of fucked up logic is this? | ||
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MVega
763 Posts
There was a Russian WC3 player that used to hack in BW and early on in WC3 as well ... I think his name was Deadman? Everyone suspected him of cheating in Frozen Throne as well despite there not being any solid proof of it, people tried to get him blacklisted from events, etc, and he actually ended up being one of the top pros for awhile there and had a nice little rivalry going with Grubby. Just because someone used to cheat it doesn't mean they still do. :/ | ||
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teddyoojo
Germany22369 Posts
On June 05 2012 07:50 Berceno wrote: I think that he hacks, I'm almost sure, I dont even know why is he playing sc2 after using maphacks in BW, He doesn't have my respect and even if he play without hacks that showmatch, I won't respect him never, just a hacker people like you just make me so unbelievably mad i wish you would get banned fucking retard User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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SpeCtor
233 Posts
He included the replay so watch it for yourselves and compare with the OP's thoughts. Camera Locks are a well know part of map hacks. | ||
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Chemist
Austria127 Posts
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MegaBuster
167 Posts
If Spades wants to give more clear evidence (although he is not inclined to, at this point yet), then that would be a very strong way to dismiss claims. As in drop a replay pack of his solo ladder 50-100 games without sorting them highly or what not and let the determined sort it out. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9104 Posts
On June 05 2012 07:52 teddyoojo wrote: people like you just make me so unbelievably mad i wish you would get banned fucking retard i concur | ||
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Artok
Netherlands2219 Posts
On June 05 2012 07:50 Berceno wrote: I think that he hacks, I'm almost sure, I dont even know why is he playing sc2 after using maphacks in BW, He doesn't have my respect and even if he play without hacks that showmatch, I won't respect him never, just a hacker because he can and you have no proof of anything, you just sound silly and i dont think anyone cares if some spanish guy doesn't respect him. | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
On June 05 2012 07:53 SpeCtor wrote: whats up with everyone hitting against the OP? All they did was go through each game and showing each point where he "thinks" he is hacking. He then gives his opinion. He included the replay so watch it for yourselves and compare with the OP's thoughts. Camera Locks are a well know part of map hacks. If I give the opinion that I think you murdered someone then time stamped CCTV footage of you throughout your day.. I'd say that is a pretty serious opinion to give. I'm not saying anything on this one way or another. But if it is inaccurate, you've defamed someone that lives on a reputation. | ||
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WHyTePoWeR
Korea (South)132 Posts
On June 05 2012 07:50 Berceno wrote: I think that he hacks, I'm almost sure, I dont even know why is he playing sc2 after using maphacks in BW, He doesn't have my respect and even if he play without hacks that showmatch, I won't respect him never, just a hacker not everything is about your respect | ||
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tsuxiit
1305 Posts
Firstly, Spades does spend a weirdly inordinate amount of time looking at his orbitals and production facilities. He never looks at the fog of war, except at 16:20 in the Shakuras Plateau game, when he looks directly at the bulk of Lucifron's army, and then incredibly quickly moves back to looking at his barracks. The speed at which he does this is pretty incredible. The replays are full of a lot of weird stuff that at times makes you think Spades is hacking, and at other times make you think he has to be pretty retarded if he is hacking. There's also the kind of weird matter of Nerchio's adamant defense of Spades. He claims to not know or ever talk to Spades. He rarely ventures onto the TL forums. Yet he almost immediately comes to Spades rescue and immediately attempts to absolve him of hacking after this thread was made. But consider this recent post on Reddit by some random throwaway account who claimed to be a hacker in GM, who knew most other high-profile hackers: I know many other top GM players that maphack as well. Most of us are friends. The most successful of these that I know is a respected pro-gamer, on a team, that has won over €15,000 in prize money. Almost all of that money was won from online tournaments. Surprise, surprise, this guy has one of the most feared ZvZ in the world. To be honest, I am not sure how this person has remain uncaught. He refrains from attending LAN tournaments even though by now, he definitely has the resources to attend them. I think I've only seen him once in a LAN tournament. All of evidence is incredibly circumstantial, like the fact that Nerchio has a 70% winrate in ZvZ on TLPD. But if you consider the idea that both these players are, in fact, using these programs to cheat and exploit, the story gets incredibly interesting. | ||
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lodeet
United States147 Posts
On June 05 2012 07:36 IntoTheheart wrote: Seriously? If you look at how many people in this thread have said "OOOH LOOK AT ME I'VE LOST RESPECT FOR HIM!!!!" you'd clearly note that people aren't happy with the way things are shaping out. You either get PanN who's like, "defend yourself omfg," or you get others who say, "you're too defensive qqqqq." Either way this is hurting his career in one way or another. So what if all the sheep thinks he hacks just because of the stupid post the OP made which could be easily discredited if Spades wanted it too. They will jump back on the spades bandwagon just as quickly as they jumped off. Spades is making it worse on himself. The OP's post had no impact he put all the pressure on Spades and Spades reacted poorly. This drama could already be over if Spades wanted it too. He already has other pros on his defense, but he won't defend himself. This still has no impact on his career if he plays his cards right. You people think his career took a hit but it hasn't and you cannot prove it has because as long as you cannot prove he hacked then your suspicison has no relevance and should never be taken into consideration into any matter which effects his sc2 journey. If you disprove the suspicison you disprove the hacking. | ||
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Soloturtle
Canada333 Posts
Players who were with him know his skill level and how he plays, if someone from that house can confirm he clicks minimap to scan and such, then this whole controversy is done. I honestly don't think he hacks because a hacker wouldn't make ANY especially at his caliber level of play. He is a smart player if he says so that he studied Lucifron's play and trying to find counters to them. It's just like any other players studying the opponent to whatever games are available so you can have an edge to what could possibly counter his builds. | ||
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