EPTOn June 05 2012 06:41 PanN wrote:
He can hack and stream at the same time ya know.
He can hack and stream at the same time ya know.
Even with stream showing everything he does?
[?] Spades hacking? - Page 16
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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here 10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here. 08:47 KST - Summary: Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) | ||
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Zaphid
Czech Republic1860 Posts
Even with stream showing everything he does? | ||
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
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Grampz
United States2147 Posts
If you don't hack, fucking prove it. Go out there, rape ladder and events, and people will start to believe you don't. You are right there is NO way to prove you don't. Except at Offline events. | ||
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JitnikoVi
Russian Federation396 Posts
its a personality, and i along with many others im sure(spades included in this case) dont feel the need to constantly be on the defense, when an accusation is made and you're shocked that it even came up you feel a sense of repulsiveness and people dont deserve an explication, or simply shouldnt need a 3page essay on why you did/did not do something | ||
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PanN
United States2828 Posts
On June 05 2012 06:43 EienShinwa wrote: WHY do people keep saying this? What will another showmatch accomplish? He can just not have the maphack on and play without it. Why would he maphack in a showmatch he KNOWS people are on the lookout for him hacking? He can use other hacks that will benefit him off screen anyway. No one seems to know this. | ||
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PanN
United States2828 Posts
Streams don't show everything you do. Thats not how streams work. | ||
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hoivenmayven
United States134 Posts
On June 05 2012 06:43 sleepingdog wrote: Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't it be possible to send this rep to a Blizzard representative for a lookover? I understand that they don't normally do this, but since a pro-gamer is involved wouldn't such a neutral statement be extremely valuable? After cancelling BlizzCon to deal with the release of three major projects, I think Blizzard might be a bit too busy to serve as an investigative reporter for a community witchhunt. | ||
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intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
On June 05 2012 06:43 Grampz wrote: Come on man this is how you respond to criticism? By giving up? Wow. Teams really love that in a player... If you don't hack, fucking prove it. Go out there, rape ladder and events, and people will start to believe you don't. You are right there is NO way to prove you don't. Except at Offline events. You can hack while playing ladder and online events and last I checked Spades (no offence if you're reading this) wasn't known to be beastial enough to get a solid enough run at Offline events for anyone to reasonably say "well this guy doesn't hack." | ||
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Martijn
Netherlands1219 Posts
On June 05 2012 06:42 Xcobidoo wrote: Just someone who doesn't want his main account to be connected to this incident forever. Which is bullshit. It's ok to ruin someones reputation regardless of whether it's true or false, and somehow he doesn't have to actually deal with any fallout if it's false? | ||
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LlamaNamedOsama
United States1900 Posts
On June 05 2012 06:39 marconi wrote: I'm surprised that the admins actually allowed for a 1 post account to post something like this and leave it unlocked. The thread was initially closed until further pms from pros verified that Spade's replays were suspicious. Also, all the people clamoring for a 1v1 first-person streamed game should really shut up, that doesn't prove anything, thousands of variables could affect his play both in that match and in his matches versus lucifron. | ||
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blobo23
United Kingdom8 Posts
He is innocent until proven guilty. He said he will respond to Illusions comments, if he does it with good enough evidence I shall believe him and defend his cause from now on, and I suggest we all do the same. If he is guilty he should be punished, but if he isn't we should all rally behind him and show him why he should be trying so hard to play this game and show this community good play. We should show the pro gamers we've got there backs. Not hate. C'mon guys, GROW UP. We could be forcing a man out of his job on very subjective evidence NOTHING concrete. If we let those who are capable of vigorously and can pressure him with questions (like they should) if he is a cheater he should eventually fold under the pressure and no sufficient answer. GL Spades. If you are telling the truth I hope this ends with the phrase: "All publicity is good publicity." | ||
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gruff
Sweden2276 Posts
On June 05 2012 06:35 PanN wrote: Theres a difference between not defending yourself, and saying "its impossible, guess ill retire after the next event!". Theres a HUGE difference. It's not huge. Not everyone will jump into a thread like this and give long and elaborate responses if they a) think they are innocent and b) think it's fulitle to convince people that are already convinced. Then it's just taken out of context you might not know. Maybe he's been thinking about doing something else and this was the straw that broke the camels back. You don't know and it's stupid to draw any conclusion from anything other than facts. "Not defending oneself" is a piss poor argument to argue he's hacking. | ||
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PanN
United States2828 Posts
On June 05 2012 06:45 Martijn wrote: Which is bullshit. It's ok to ruin someones reputation regardless of whether it's true or false, and somehow he doesn't have to actually deal with any fallout if it's false? Oh it's definitely complete bullshit. If the mods know who he is and he has another account registered here its even more messed up. | ||
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Spades
United States249 Posts
On June 05 2012 06:18 QuanticIllusion wrote: Defend the points made and I'll apologize and so should everyone. If you're not cheating, you shouldn't be afraid of defending yourself because there is nothing to lose. Either you play really fishy/"dumb" or you had some amazing game sense in the series, if what you are saying is true. QuanticIllusion wrote: Addition to the OP, looked through a little bit more and confirmed OP's statements and made notes where OP could be wrong. Either way it is really fishy play and he is either stream cheating or map hacking, more likely map hacking because he is reacting way too fast for it to be a stream cheat. Game 1: Antiga All of OP's statements true 11:02 camera block - is that sharp jump after the block usual? seems really fast compared to normal screen save/basecam okay so apparently camera block is when i move my map fast or something because im looking at fog of war with some hack? i dont know how to explain this but i dont see anything weird. What's funny is people dont mention all the little mistakes i make, and missing drops that cost me games, If i was a hacker why would i purposely lose to things like this, wouldnt i see them? Game 2: ETBD Valley Not looking at the base after scouting it is really weird.. 7:47 push - doesn't even see bunker before pushing, no scans + perfect range just standard range for a bunker.. 13:42 - agreed, I would always send 5 marines or so right away or scan to make sure im not in danger. he kills marines, and scans, I hold middle watchtower, why wouldnt i prepare for an attack on the right? 16:40 - blind 3 medi drop, doesnt scan to see if there are turrets or anything, possibly just really bad play no scans were available, i made a move, 3 medivacs can get through a turret even if there was one. Game 3: Shak 3:55 common if you go CC first and you are being worker harrassed, interesting he didn't scout at all though.. 5:08 Rax 2 + 3rd CC is not in his map vision, only on minimap, most players look around with their camera.. not just their minimap when they scan I'll answer this and whats after together. I needed to immediately know if i need to 3 cc or tech whether he expands or not, my scv scout was late, so i scanned opposite base as well. on minimap its clear he went 3 cc, so it's never going to be a factory, so i immediately went back to my base and put 3 cc down. IMPORTANT:He scans the correct base without having scouted the other one Summary: He plays really blind rest of the game, really bad as well, moving armies into spots he doesnt have vision of + never scans after first one. TvT positional warfare requires scans or well placed units around the map, he does not have either. He never goes for any blind 3 medivac drops this game - there are turrets for lucifron he didn't scout. I played this game horribly positionally, and way behind, I wish i had magic vision to maneuver around instead of getting stomped. Game 4: Meta Everything true, really suspicous at 7:30 where he moves his army towards the hellions without seeing, despite the fact he was moving back and forth in same place 10 seconds ago. random chance Game 5: TDA 10:50 kind of suspicious but he saw it on the minimap and he already has his hellions hotkeyed - not too important 12:30 he's moving his army + setting rallys over there, not suspicious 17:00 absolutely no reason to keep your viking at your natural once you see medivac + bio going for a doom drop towards your main.. 18:20 zero useful map vision at the point, unsieges tanks randomly and then moves to 3rd to kill luci army 19:00: moves back to natural, leaves 0 units behind to defend 3rd even after he realized that he didnt kill the whole drop, then sieges to defend natural + 3rd 21:10 moves his viking before he sees the medivacs on the minimap, moves few tanks + all vikings - not too suspicious but the suspicious part is that he still has 0 map vision, and decides to not defend his natural - no units from luci in sight -- Stopped watching because it's getting too obvious, wasting my time Quick Notes: For most of the game he has 0 map vision from lucifron's path of attack to spade's bases. He has a rax on the left for drops + top xel naga but not the xel naga connecting both bases together. Also made 0 turrets to defend his main on the back side, just the top Everything here is just me randomly guessing, and guessing wrong most of the time, where his army would be. He constantly drops me out of position, moves on my 3rd with minimal army there, If I hack I am the worst hacker of all time in this game. GaME 6: Daybreak 4:30 this is a really dumb move or he is cheating- he would be dead in minutes if lucifron was doing any other build. I studied his games vs thorzain, he does 100% the same exact build. I took a risk 16:00 decides to kill rocks, then sees free medivacs at the lower base and goes down there instead i almost decided to kill rocks a few times, and stopped because i know he can see me attacking them, anything else is chance and standard tvt maneuvering 16:05 looks back at his main - camera block - I noticed this many times-- he always looks at his factorys + starport whenever his army is moving to a good place, in this situation- lucifrons medivacs no? dont know what else to say, there obviously has to be some way of proving this camera block, but because im 100% not doing anything like that. 16:45 he does it again, same spot One could say he is doing it to make tanks, viking, medivacs etc. notice how he never goes back to his barracks to make units, always looking somewhere else. There is also no reason to look back at your factories and starport, both factories have tech labs and he only has one reactor starport. This occurs many times later but I stopped writing times here. From here on, he has whole map control so nothing really matters, even though there are a few more camera blocks here and there. Game 7: Shattered Temple 6:00 Remember game 2 and 4? Spades went for a viking to prevent uncloacked banshees or drop. This time, however, he makes raven-viking without having scanned and thus, not (supposedly) knowing LucifroN is going cloack banshee. In most his games vs thorzain he opens cloak banshee. however raven wasnt "anti cloak" in this game. I decided to do a 1 base tank marine autoturret allin, but he went fast vikings so i couldnt. 7:20 He moves his marines and his raven to the location where LucifroN's banshee is going (He doesn't even know LucifroN is going banshees). + rallys starport over there this is common play? i leave units at front and send units to back of base as well. I know you are smart enough to understand this concept. 14:30 Sieges tank on high ground out of other tank range + good position to defend, moves marines in main away from range of siege tank (it was in range before he moved it) He goes to his natural entry with almost all his army to get a good position to fight against LucifroN forces (which he hasn't seen yet). you dont want to be caught in your base by someone trying to do tank pushes, common play 16:55 Instead of leaving some tanks on his main, fearing another attack from LucifroN on that spot he sends all of his army next to the golden, right where LucifroN is going, and suddently unsieges to reposition his tanks to the right, where LucifroN is moving. Note: 0 map vision random game flow, he also catches me out of position quite a few times I wish there were more different spawns, antiga is 2 - shattered he got close air, entombed he got close vertical etc. Only games where it was suspicious was Tal darim - he got first scout and Shakuras he scanned the main before even seeing where he spawned. I looked through the replays in depth, not super closely but close enough to look at all the times stated in the OP Most of my openings and builds were based on his games vs Thorzain in scan invitational. If you watch those you will see he does same exact builds on same exact maps which worked out to my favor as well. I know LucifroN is a better player than me, and I cut alot of corners playing him hoping to gain advantage. It worked sometimes, other times i lost for blatant errors in judgement. I wasn't hacking, nor have I hacked in SC2, and I trouble someone to find definitite proof because it isn't out there. The majority of scans in my play, I scan minimap, then a second later click to location, which can account for off center views which you claim is camera lock. Other times i actually view fog of war then scan. this is all evident if you watch my stream vods. | ||
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Xcobidoo
Sweden1871 Posts
On June 05 2012 06:41 askTeivospy wrote: Pro tip: No one owes it to explain themselves to a bunch of rabid TL users. Don't like it? Email the sponsors. He doesn't owe US anything, he owes himself to explain it to us so that this won't end his career if he did not hack. E-mailing the sponsors is the worst thing to do since it's not even set in stone if it's true or not, jesus... | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
You can choose to show only part of your screen and/or hide some applications (lots of progamers use it for skype for example)... | ||
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Welmu
Finland3295 Posts
On June 05 2012 06:14 Spades wrote: 90% of the day i believe people are hacking against me on ladder. Big name players as well. Everyone is just hack crazy now. I stream 90% of my games. I didn't hack in this series, I haven't hacked in SC2. If you want to find things that look suspicious, It's easy. Not one person here can "prove" i hacked, because i didn't. And now my sc2 image is destroyed. So I'm thankful for that. Guess it's time to retire after Anaheim. Wow, this is super strange comment. I dont play in na, but suspecting 90% of hacking doesnt make any sense. Ive suspected under 0,1 of hacking. One would only put up such a ridiculous number up knowing how easy it is to make it look like normal play or either to protect himself with the mindset that normal games look often like hacking. Also why would someone need to mention that no one can prove me hacking lol. Spades is propably hacking or is really dumb. I will take look to replays tomorrow and to more comments to make my own statement, but this is already sounding really suspicious | ||
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fams
Canada731 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + User was warned for this post | ||
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herbie
140 Posts
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Trizz
Netherlands1318 Posts
On June 05 2012 06:45 Martijn wrote: Which is bullshit. It's ok to ruin someones reputation regardless of whether it's true or false, and somehow he doesn't have to actually deal with any fallout if it's false? Why is this bullshit? If someone wants to remain unknown then he should have that right. It's clear he did a lot of research and tries to "HELP ESPORTS XD420" and report a cheater. | ||
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