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[?] Spades hacking? - Page 15

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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here

10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.

08:47 KST - Summary:
Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open.

Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims.

(also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here)
marconi
Profile Joined March 2010
Croatia220 Posts
June 04 2012 21:39 GMT
#281
I'm surprised that the admins actually allowed for a 1 post account to post something like this and leave it unlocked.
TheWorldToCome
Profile Joined January 2012
United States452 Posts
June 04 2012 21:40 GMT
#282
BTW Liquipedia says he was caught maphacking in BW.
Starcraft 2 was designed to have a best race. You play the worst one.
Cejotas
Profile Joined March 2011
Spain88 Posts
June 04 2012 21:40 GMT
#283
On June 05 2012 06:36 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:
Yeah... The OP has 1 post = smurf.
One may speculate who the smurf is but it would not supprise me if its Lucifron related


LucifroN won the showmatch, I don't understand this.
PanN
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States2828 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-04 21:40:33
June 04 2012 21:40 GMT
#284
On June 05 2012 06:37 gruff wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 06:27 PanN wrote:
Simply because you're not defending yourself with all your might, and you're giving up and retiring, I bet you're hacking.

Any normal, innocent person, would defend themselves vehemently with this type of accusation. You're just like "man! everyone is always down on me! guess ill retire after the next tournament!"

Fucking defend your self if you're innocent, you look so bad just copping out like you are.

Not everyone reacts the same, there are many people that would just get mad and say screw that if they are feeling unjustly treated, just accepting that they won't be able to convince people of the opposite. Just because someone defends himself with vigor doesn't mean he is or isn't hacking. In fact one of the best way to fool people is doing just that. Maybe he's sick of people calling him hacker (which isn't unplausible due to his background) and sees it like a fools arrend to try. This kind of logic is what labels innocent people something they are not. If you want to judge him, do it because of facts not some stupid psycho analysis.


Just saying its incredibly stupid of him to just say I'll retire soon. Obviously evidence is important here, are you intoxicated? I never said it wasn't. It's the most important thing here.

I'm simply saying its stupid of him to cop out and retire because of accusations, a few posts directly after he says he wants to make this his career.
We have multiple brackets generated in advance. Relax . (Kennigit) I just simply do not understand how it can be the time to play can be 22nd at 9:30 pm PST / midnight the 23rd at the same time. (GGzerg)
Xadar
Profile Joined October 2010
497 Posts
June 04 2012 21:40 GMT
#285
On June 05 2012 06:39 marconi wrote:
I'm surprised that the admins actually allowed for a 1 post account to post something like this and leave it unlocked.

it doesnt mean ANYTHING that OP has only 1 post. look at the content, not the post number -.-
Zaphid
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic1860 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-04 21:41:43
June 04 2012 21:40 GMT
#286
Spades, play a showmatch with first person stream, preferably a TvT against someone of Lucifron's caliber. Let people see how good you are, no whining about mouse problems, lag or whatever else, just play it. Best way to prove people wrong. Hell, you will even get record viewing numbers after this.

Also I'm pretty sure TL staff has an idea who the OP could be, with them seeing IP address and possibly browser settings.
I will never ever play Mech against Protoss. - MVP
Mordiford
Profile Joined April 2011
4448 Posts
June 04 2012 21:41 GMT
#287
On June 05 2012 06:39 marconi wrote:
I'm surprised that the admins actually allowed for a 1 post account to post something like this and leave it unlocked.


It's a detailed post that points out a very serious issue with very specific points which makes it easy to review the data presented. Why wouldn't they leave it open for pros to come in and throw in their two cents.

If it devolves into a massive clusterfuck they'll close it.
intotheheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada33091 Posts
June 04 2012 21:41 GMT
#288
On June 05 2012 06:38 PanN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 06:37 IntoTheheart wrote:
On June 05 2012 06:35 PanN wrote:
On June 05 2012 06:34 IntoTheheart wrote:
On June 05 2012 06:29 mewbert wrote:
On June 05 2012 06:27 PanN wrote:
Simply because you're not defending yourself with all your might, and you're giving up and retiring, I bet you're hacking.

Any normal, innocent person, would defend themselves vehemently with this type of accusation. You're just like "man! everyone is always down on me! guess ill retire after the next tournament!"

Fucking defend your self if you're innocent, you look so bad just copping out like you are.

yeah, the fact that spades says he shouldnt have to defend himself and he will just retire just further backs that he is probably guilty, anyone who is innocent would be defending themselfs.


Not sure if I agree with PanN here. If people accused me of hacking or whatever and there wasn't a definitive way of proving it (I think BW had some mechanic for this) there wouldn't be a use for defending myself because zealots would just keep breaking down every little thing I'd say anyway.


Theres a difference between not defending yourself, and saying "its impossible, guess ill retire after the next event!".

Theres a HUGE difference.


How do you possibly defend yourself to these accusations? Spades has to answer to your questioning and basically all anyone has is his word.


I don't need to explain this because incontrol already did. He has nothing to lose defending himself. But bitchin' out and saying "oh no one will believe me! guess ill quit!" is really really really suspicious.

He may not have shit for evidence right now, but copping out like that really doesn't help him at all.

How do you not see this? I'm done talking about this.


"How do you not see this," is just horrific argumentation. Something is obvious to you (giving up early means he's hacking) but it doesn't mean that it's obvious to anyone else, but more importantly it doesn't mean that it's true. He obviously knows that anything he says to defend himself would just cause controversy. Have you tried convincing zealots on the internet about just about anything without proof?
kiss kiss fall in love
Martijn
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Netherlands1219 Posts
June 04 2012 21:41 GMT
#289
On June 05 2012 06:32 Giantorange wrote:
As wierd as this sounds, I'd like to just ask the next person that discovers a professional player or someone notable in the community hacking to instead contact a couple of professional players to review the evidence or someone trustworthy before posting this type of thing. If you back it up with professional opinions first and keep everything reasonably quiet previous to posting whether he's a hacker or not. It can potentially avoid destroying an innocent person's reputation. Whether Spades is innocent or not is still up for debate, but whether his reputation is essentially destroyed with a lot of people is pretty clear.


This has been done. I've been apart of this process more than once. All the more reason why this thread should've never been posted in the first place. "Oh, he did well against LucifroN, he must be cheating." Give me a break. Asking some pros to look at it now, and I'll ask Luci for his opinion as well when I can get in touch.
http://www.glhf.tv fighting! Former WesternWolves & LowLandLions operations manager.
PanN
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States2828 Posts
June 04 2012 21:41 GMT
#290
On June 05 2012 06:40 Zaphid wrote:
Spades, play a showmatch with first person stream, preferably a TvT against someone of Lucifron's caliber. Let people see how good you are, no whining about mouse problems, lag or whatever else, just play it. Best way to prove people wrong. Hell, you will even get record viewing numbers after this.


He can hack and stream at the same time ya know.
We have multiple brackets generated in advance. Relax . (Kennigit) I just simply do not understand how it can be the time to play can be 22nd at 9:30 pm PST / midnight the 23rd at the same time. (GGzerg)
mewbert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States291 Posts
June 04 2012 21:41 GMT
#291
You guys need to understand something, people arent just trying to hurt his reputation for no reason, he CHEATED before and if something fishy happens with a previous cheater it should be brought to attention. Cheating is disgusting and ruins everything about competition, im sure there are more people out there that are more semi pros whos name you know that cheat and would amaze you.


If spades turns out to be innocent then people should apologize and forget about it but hes cheated in the past and this thread is perfectly justified, stop throwing around words like witch hunt if you dont know what youre saying.
askTeivospy
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1525 Posts
June 04 2012 21:41 GMT
#292
On June 05 2012 06:40 PanN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 06:37 gruff wrote:
On June 05 2012 06:27 PanN wrote:
Simply because you're not defending yourself with all your might, and you're giving up and retiring, I bet you're hacking.

Any normal, innocent person, would defend themselves vehemently with this type of accusation. You're just like "man! everyone is always down on me! guess ill retire after the next tournament!"

Fucking defend your self if you're innocent, you look so bad just copping out like you are.

Not everyone reacts the same, there are many people that would just get mad and say screw that if they are feeling unjustly treated, just accepting that they won't be able to convince people of the opposite. Just because someone defends himself with vigor doesn't mean he is or isn't hacking. In fact one of the best way to fool people is doing just that. Maybe he's sick of people calling him hacker (which isn't unplausible due to his background) and sees it like a fools arrend to try. This kind of logic is what labels innocent people something they are not. If you want to judge him, do it because of facts not some stupid psycho analysis.


Just saying its incredibly stupid of him to just say I'll retire soon. Obviously evidence is important here, are you intoxicated? I never said it wasn't. It's the most important thing here.

I'm simply saying its stupid of him to cop out and retire because of accusations, a few posts directly after he says he wants to make this his career.


Pro tip: No one owes it to explain themselves to a bunch of rabid TL users. Don't like it? Email the sponsors.
hihihi
Wroshe
Profile Joined June 2011
Netherlands1051 Posts
June 04 2012 21:41 GMT
#293
First off I'll start with admitting that I have not seen the games. Considering the controversy about the games I might fit in the time in the next few days but I am not sure.

What we have here is a truckload of circumstancial evidence gathered by the OP, Illusion, iNcontrol, Probe1 and others but very few if any actual proof. rANDY's post however to me appears to have that smoking gun with the "off centered scans". On the basis of that post I'll say that I'm convinced by the allegations.

Having said that though we should be careful in these kind of situations as solid evidence is nearly impossible to get and the damage a false accusation does.

The combination of Spades' hacking past, the truckload of circumstancial evidence, his very sudden skill increase after a terrible early 2012 record combined with rANDY's post makes me feel secure enough about calling this how I see it: a blatant hack.
Blackfish
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Austria309 Posts
June 04 2012 21:42 GMT
#294
On June 05 2012 06:40 Cejotas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 06:36 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:
Yeah... The OP has 1 post = smurf.
One may speculate who the smurf is but it would not supprise me if its Lucifron related


LucifroN won the showmatch, I don't understand this.


Yeah but 4-3 vs Spades for someone as "over"-hyped as Lucifron is bad.
NaDa - my god | Mvp - my king | Innovation - my favorite | Terran- my race
Markam
Profile Joined September 2010
Poland71 Posts
June 04 2012 21:42 GMT
#295
I watched taldarim game from Spades POV and I didn't notice anything really suspicious. I don't know if he's hacking or not but OP stated that it was the most evident game.
MuseMike
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1339 Posts
June 04 2012 21:42 GMT
#296
Where is Lead Detective Payam "TT1" Toghyan when you need him.
Xcobidoo
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden1871 Posts
June 04 2012 21:42 GMT
#297
On June 05 2012 06:36 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:
Yeah... The OP has 1 post = smurf.
One may speculate who the smurf is but it would not supprise me if its Lucifron related

Just someone who doesn't want his main account to be connected to this incident forever. LucifroN won aswell so I don't see any point in doing it for LucifroN in particular...
Supreme Intergalactic Commander
intotheheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada33091 Posts
June 04 2012 21:42 GMT
#298
On June 05 2012 06:40 Cejotas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 06:36 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:
Yeah... The OP has 1 post = smurf.
One may speculate who the smurf is but it would not supprise me if its Lucifron related


LucifroN won the showmatch, I don't understand this.

Yeah I'm with you on this, if Lucifron lost and wanted to get some form of compensation, then making some claims would make sense (kinda).
kiss kiss fall in love
-Switch-
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada506 Posts
June 04 2012 21:43 GMT
#299
utterly disgusting.
EienShinwa
Profile Joined May 2010
United States655 Posts
June 04 2012 21:43 GMT
#300
On June 05 2012 06:40 Zaphid wrote:
Spades, play a showmatch with first person stream, preferably a TvT against someone of Lucifron's caliber. Let people see how good you are, no whining about mouse problems, lag or whatever else, just play it. Best way to prove people wrong. Hell, you will even get record viewing numbers after this.

Also I'm pretty sure TL staff has an idea who the OP could be, with them seeing IP address and possibly browser settings.


WHY do people keep saying this? What will another showmatch accomplish? He can just not have the maphack on and play without it. Why would he maphack in a showmatch he KNOWS people are on the lookout for him hacking?
I have a simple philosophy: Fill what's empty. Empty what's full. Scratch where it itches. Alice Roosevelt Longworth
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