EPTIf I had a gun I'd shoot either Sbrubbles or Mattchew.
Death Factory Mafia 2 - Page 38
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
If I had a gun I'd shoot either Sbrubbles or Mattchew. | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On April 03 2012 22:49 prplhz wrote: So far everything you've been doing is being blatantly bad while bumping townies into the red. I bumped them because they asked to be bumped. I was one of the initiators of the get palmar the item plan. I believe I was the first to push VE to save him. Why is this blatantly bad? | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5774 Posts
Lets consider him null, for argument's sake. By lynching him we would have: 1) 1/3 chance of nailing scum 2) Better idea of Ceph's and my own alignment 3) More PoPs the next day, given that less PoP's would be devoted to figuring out which one of us is/are scum So, that tells me that those who ended the day without using their pulls (Bluelightz, Zenthor, Acro and Palmar) either: 1) Have a solid town read on him 2) Weren't around at the deadline and chose wilfully to end the day without using their Pulls 3) Are scum and don't want to lynch their buddy Syllo As I said, I have a scum read on Syllo, but I can see someone interpreting him as null. That said, I don't believe anyone here has a solid town read on him. So, tell me guys, which one is it? | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5774 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
Syllo makes his case for some secondary voting mechanism by criticizing that free for all PoP allows both town and scum to waste their PoP. Then he throws away his vote on BM randomly. Free for all posting doesn't mean town doesn't try to reach a consensus and he pushes regardless. Is he trying to make his point about organized secondary voting being better or throwing away his vote as scum? How was the vote on BM "thrown away" and "random? To the contrary, my vote/push was well reasoned and well timed. Perhaps the concept of time zones is foreign to you, even after I pointed it out, or are you being malignantly ignorant? There was no consensus, a significant portion of players had already used their votes and no one was willing to express their willingness to vote wbg/bm when I asked about it. Utter garbage. His whole discussion with BM, questioning both the claim and game balance around it was an especially useless and space consuming discussion. BM's information isn't relevant for now and claim may or may not be true, but itself it wasn't scummish, so I don't see the point in dwelling in that. This is also nonsense. Not all claims are equal and anyone familiar with how games are balanced can deduce whether a role is likely to be present in the game. While BM's claim is no neutral survivor balrog, it is still dubious. Lastly he tries to buddy with you to quickly throw me down. No waiting for me to post? Just "pulling him because he hasn't posted yet"? At least it makes more sense than his BM push, but still, if I was gone for good, there would be reason to expect a replacement, so why rush on me? Again, I can not "wait to post" when there is a more pressing deadline than the actual one; that is to say when I have to go to bed. The real question is why it took this long for you to actually post. Why "rush" on you? Because there is a believable red check which implicates either you or cephireo. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
On April 04 2012 00:11 Mattchew wrote: I bumped them because they asked to be bumped. I was one of the initiators of the get palmar the item plan. I believe I was the first to push VE to save him. Why is this blatantly bad? That's blatantly bad because you seem to be perfectly happy just PoPing stuff that carries no responsibility at all. I didn't understand the "getting me within a spot of of palmar" until you just explained it. You didn't use any PoPs to try to get scum lynched and you didn't seem to care about that at all. Your filter is totally devoid of any reads. | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain17701 Posts
On April 04 2012 00:12 Sbrubbles wrote: I'm dissapointed Syllo wasn't incinerated. I have a scum read on him, but as long as you believe risk, he is a good lynch candidate even if your read is null. Lets consider him null, for argument's sake. By lynching him we would have: 1) 1/3 chance of nailing scum 2) Better idea of Ceph's and my own alignment 3) More PoPs the next day, given that less PoP's would be devoted to figuring out which one of us is/are scum So, that tells me that those who ended the day without using their pulls (Bluelightz, Zenthor, Acro and Palmar) either: 1) Have a solid town read on him 2) Weren't around at the deadline and chose wilfully to end the day without using their Pulls 3) Are scum and don't want to lynch their buddy Syllo As I said, I have a scum read on Syllo, but I can see someone interpreting him as null. That said, I don't believe anyone here has a solid town read on him. So, tell me guys, which one is it? I believe I made that perfectly clear. I had no scum read on any of you when I went to bed. This morning when I got up I looked at all your posts, and if one of you 3 is scum, I believe it's you. You're going to have to come up with something better than an OMGUS to convince me otherwise. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
Bluelightz if you actually use that power we should lynch you. | ||
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cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
Sure enough, doing something with my pop raised a gigantic woohah. Every player that moves according to the plan of getting palmar item is apparently scummy for avoiding responsibility. . The other people that pushed palmar to item? Scum that want to "waste" pop! The people that got VE to rescue palmar? Scum that want to "waste" pop and get town credit! NEWSFLASH: Anytime you want to get anything achieved some people can avoid "responsibility." This is unavoidable. (hahahaha pun) God people are stupid. On the contrary, being the first to initiate things put a big bullseye on my back as you can see. Sad. I thought I was supposed to avoid responsibility. We should have continued happily drinking tea and discussing the weather and the town secondary voting system. We can see how that one turned out. Broke down quick enough. (Cephiro was threatening to drop palmar over the edge cause his highness didn't agree.) I felt the idea of allowing palmar to get item had its risks, balanced against reward of more information. People were whining that someone else can verify roleclaim. We can all sit around and wait for shit to happen, palmar's not going to move himself. Verifying his roleclaim and allowing us to guess at his power reduced some of that risk. Ultimately, a COMBINATION of factors made me conclude that moving him is still better than wasting D1 though, since it is one of the few things that can succeed. So you see, I wasn't quite enamored with the plan. Somehow retards are twisting it to say that I didn't approve of it. I was thinking I don't have to waste my time explaining and responding to this retarded argument but the tunneling continues. Seriously? Stop filling up thread with garbage. How can so many people lack reading comprehension to conclude that I was against the plan is beyond me. Probably some scum that jump on bandwagon that I need to do analysis on later. I did something with my pop, which is more than can be said for those players that didn't even use it at all or wasted it. There are other easy ways to waste your pop. Such as throwing it on a player without enough support to get him lynched. See: cephiro, syllo. @Scrubbles comment, I had pencilled Bluelightz as 90% guilty. Besides your fail bandwagon on me and redirecting attention at syllo instead of yourself, you have nothing. Post. Glad to see Bluelightz didn't disappear back into the darkness. Lmao @ power. | ||
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risk.nuke
Sweden2825 Posts
Even if one of them dies and flip scum, it doesn't actually say anything about the others alignment. It's good enough that we just have the information that there is evil toys in there. | ||
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Tobon
United States372 Posts
On April 04 2012 02:27 risk.nuke wrote: I'm thinking it might be better to ignore sburbbles ceph and syllogism for now. Even if one of them dies and flip scum, it doesn't actually say anything about the others alignment. It's good enough that we just have the information that there is evil toys in there. Um... what? If one of them dies and flips scum, we're that much closer to winning this thing. The point of the game, remember? (Total WIFOM time, but this post makes me doubt risk's claim for the first time. It's really dumb. It makes me wonder why the red light that we saw is a different one than the one in DFM1. Much less cop-esque. Much more evil-looking.) However: I think both Sburbbles and Syllo are scummy enough that I'd be perfectly happy with pulling off whichever one of the two ends up closest to the bottom of the queue when our placement is randomized at the beginning of day 2. | ||
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Nemesis
Canada2568 Posts
- tries to non-commitally throw suspicion on Palmar On April 01 2012 23:45 Tobon wrote: Nothing is for sure here, but in DFM1, this was the power of the evil Mirror Toy, who could also reverse ends of the entire queue once per game. So (a) be aware that the queue flipping power probably exists, and also (b) I'd be a a bit suspicious of Palmar, although I doubt Ace would make it so easy for us by repeating scum roles. He keeps trying to emphasize that we don't know Palmar's alignment and that he could be evil based on his role as it was an evil role last game, but doesn't outright say it. -OMGUS + Show Spoiler + On April 02 2012 13:52 Tobon wrote: Already explained that I wasn't suggesting it, I was bringing it up to start discussion. In the same sentence that I "proposed" it, I also said that it failed to go anywhere. Just overly wordy on my part. The important point is that Palmar very likely has the entire queue flip once-per-game power. Yeah, so? I'd shrug and chalk this up to pressure except for the push. The push was completely wasteful. There's no feeling I've noticed on anyone else's part that I might be scum, so why would you throw away your push with more than 24 hours to go? Shouldn't you be trying to build a case or convince other people, while seeing what other people do as well, and then use your PoPs more productively nearer the deadline? As it is, this really comes across as an excuse to use up your push so you won't be responsible for going against majority town's choice when it comes. FoS: Nemesis. When I try and get him lynched, he pulls an OMGUS. - Role fishing and not scumhunting He seems to be role fishing a lot, he seems to be extremely focused on figuring out people's role. For example with Palmar's role, with risk.nuke's role, with my role, and keeps saying that people who keep their roles secret are scummy. On April 03 2012 02:15 Tobon wrote: Okay, so Acro is NOT double wide. Which means that Nemesis is double strong or something after all (or I guess I could have some sort of super light and easy to push role - but that's not me). I was already suspicious of Nemesis, but how could him not explaining his push possibly be pro-town? I'd like to see Nemesis lynched. I can't push him myself, and I can't push Palmar out of the fire either. Both of those would be what we'd need to do if we want to go that direction. Meanwhile, still very interested in pulling syllogism or sbrubbles down and out of risk's range. Any objections or volunteers to pull sbrubbles? Why was there a need to explain my power at that point of the game? Blindly roleclaiming without any purpose is just stupid and gives scum more information to work with so they can figure out who to kill during the night. He just seem to be really focused on rolefishing which does not help town in any way. This also contradicts his previous post, which says that scum or town would have explained his power. His posts look quite bad. On April 02 2012 13:59 Tobon wrote: Seems unlikely, scum or town, wouldn't Nemesis have mentioned what was about to happen when it's his own action doing it? Anyway, @VE: did you expect something interesting to happen with your "Hold on a second." push of Bluelightz, or are you that sure of your scum vote already? You and Bugs using up PoPs so early in the day bothers me, although at least there's been discussion on the target of them. - extreme neutrality on his posts Take a look at his posts considering palmar, including the one above: On April 02 2012 23:52 Tobon wrote: I don't think Palmar is scum, I think it doesn't matter whether he is or not right now, if his survival is tied to using his ability in a town-positive way. And BM's claimed role is identical to one of the toys in game 1, so I don't find it too unlikely. I agree with all this. I'm not liking Cascades' post and pull either. However, pushing him is still a bad idea right now. Because of the two-toys-fill-a-row bumping mechanic, the more spread out we toys get the more pushes it takes to get anyone into the fire zone. The worst thing we can do as good toys is to end up almost killing several suspects instead of making sure to get one or two. Note how he says he is suspicious of cascades but is not willing to lynch him. In summary, he seems to take a non-commital stance on a lot of things, and is also blatantly rolefishing. Since when does rolefishing benefit town? It doesn't, it only benefits scum. Also, when pressured he pulls an OMGUS. I'd really like to get Tobon lynched tomorrow. | ||
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Tobon
United States372 Posts
I also think Nemesis is more likely to be town now too, both because he did some helpful stuff later on in the day, and also because his continued tunneling of me is beginning to feel like a more genuine town-but-wrong situation rather than an opportunistic scum-trying-to-wrongly-convince town. If he was scum he'd probably be bandwagoning more on someone else whose already under suspicion. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
I just can't get over why Ace and Kurumi would give a scum role to a townie but as long as it isn't overpowered then I don't care. | ||
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Tobon
United States372 Posts
On April 04 2012 02:49 Nemesis wrote: Note how he says he is suspicious of cascades but is not willing to lynch him. Oh, and this part. My read on cascades is here: link. In short: scummy. The bit you quoted is me saying that the timing of the PoP on cascades was poor because we hadn't decided for sure on a target yet. As many of us are agreeing now, a lot of us (me definitely included) used our PoPs poorly and in an uncoordinated way on day 1. Hopefully we can do better from here on out. | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5774 Posts
On April 04 2012 00:28 syllogism wrote: Your reason for thinking I'm scum is laughable to a point I don't believe it can actually be your honest take on the situation. How was the vote on BM "thrown away" and "random? To the contrary, my vote/push was well reasoned and well timed. Perhaps the concept of time zones is foreign to you, even after I pointed it out, or are you being malignantly ignorant? There was no consensus, a significant portion of players had already used their votes and no one was willing to express their willingness to vote wbg/bm when I asked about it.Utter garbage. This is also nonsense. Not all claims are equal and anyone familiar with how games are balanced can deduce whether a role is likely to be present in the game. While BM's claim is no neutral survivor balrog, it is still dubious. Snarfs and VE's alignment weren't in question. BM's claim is for now unverifiable and didn't have any impact whatsoever on the discussion at the time. Aside from this, the power itself doesn't seem OP in my opinion. Knowing all this and still wanting to question the claim (and in fact push BM based on it) instead of ignoring it was counterproductive behavior. Right now, I believe, might be a better time to discuss this. Personally, I think a DT check (if we have one) on BM to check his and Snarf's alignment wouldn't be worth it, but I can see some merit to idea. Thoughts? + Show Spoiler + On April 04 2012 00:28 syllogism wrote: Again, I can not "wait to post" when there is a more pressing deadline than the actual one; that is to say when I have to go to bed. The real question is why it took this long for you to actually post. Why "rush" on you? Because there is a believable red check which implicates either you or cephireo. Modkills/replacements in day 1 can happen, which is why I have been against day 1 lynches based purely on 0 posts. It happened that I wasn't able to post on the weekend, but I managed to get in before the deadline. If this is the basis for lynching me, then it is a terrible one. I wanna add that like you (from your supposed "town" viewpoint), from my point of view, you and/or (most likely "or") cephireo are scum. The fact is, I think there are more suspicious people out there I'd like to focus on, but there's a believable claim that one of you two are scum, and I see you as scummier than him so far. The rest of the Town has to figure this situation out. | ||
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Tobon
United States372 Posts
What do you think of Bluelightz, for instance? | ||
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cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
On April 04 2012 03:02 Tobon wrote: Oh, and this part. My read on cascades is here: link. In short: scummy. The bit you quoted is me saying that the timing of the PoP on cascades was poor because we hadn't decided for sure on a target yet. As many of us are agreeing now, a lot of us (me definitely included) used our PoPs poorly and in an uncoordinated way on day 1. Hopefully we can do better from here on out. LOL good try. Your read on cascades is here: I agree with all this. I'm not liking Cascades' post and pull either. Fixed. One off the Bandwagon train. | ||
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