EPTDeath Factory Mafia 2 - Page 37
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On April 03 2012 14:58 syllogism wrote: Because I had only little time and no one was actually willing to discuss who they would be willing to push? Only VE answered my inquiries, while the others were just talking about irrelevant things. As I pointed out very early, the "lynch" deadline is about 7+ hours too late for me. you certainly didn't seem to want to put any effort in trying to discuss those subjects. Indeed your justification for BM's roleclaim being weak was refuted by VE himself, if I remember correctly. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On April 03 2012 15:01 wherebugsgo wrote: I'm not misinterpreting anything you said. You didn't really consider at all that Cephiro could be scum; you took one thing he said and claimed it made him look town, and based on that one piece of evidence decided that Sbrabbles was the scum. From your perspective I think it would have taken a little bit more work than that to determine which player to pull. Indeed, you didn't justify your pull on Sbrabbles beyond that. It seemed like you didn't think about it very much, which is rather odd since PoPs are final. Are you scum wbg? Why do you attempt to know what thought process went into my decision? Why don't you find it odd that many people used/wasted their PoPs very early and attempt to make it look like me using my own PoPs at pretty much the last possible moment, given my local time, is suspicious? I made the reasonable assumption that risk is indeed the dt role he claims to be, as it's a very risky fake claim to do on day 1, especially with the possibility of the "real one" being out there. That left me with two targets for my pull and out of those sbrabbles was the obvious choice given that some of the things cephiro had posted looked town to me. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On April 03 2012 15:03 wherebugsgo wrote: you certainly didn't seem to want to put any effort in trying to discuss those subjects. Indeed your justification for BM's roleclaim being weak was refuted by VE himself, if I remember correctly. And no, it wasn't refuted by VE; in fact, I convinced him. It can not be "refuted" by anyone other than Ace and it's quite suspicious that few people are agreeing with me given that the logic behind my skepticism is sound. Now that I think about it, BM said he latched on to VE, so it's possible that he is responsible for getting VE killed. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18102 Posts
I will read through the pages of new posts and post my ideas later. For now, there's one thing I don't understand: if Palmar was ponied by VE and mobsters got some secret move to kill VE, how did Palmar not only live, bu move backwards? Not complaining, just confused. @palmar: VE got hmself killed for you. You'd better be worth a wasted D1. Final thoughts: VE flipping green probably means BM's roleclaim is true. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On April 03 2012 15:49 syllogism wrote: And no, it wasn't refuted by VE; in fact, I convinced him. It can not be "refuted" by anyone other than Ace and it's quite suspicious that few people are agreeing with me given that the logic behind my skepticism is sound. Now that I think about it, BM said he latched on to VE, so it's possible that he is responsible for getting VE killed. You know what: you're right. I didn't like the manner in which BM roleclaimed, and it's why I said we should ignore him. Perhaps I'm looking too much into you saying that we should be wary of free-for-all PoPing and perhaps I'm wrong about why you thought Cephiro was town as well. In retrospect I seem to recall that you have called people town for similar reasons before. I disagree that BM's roleclaim is implausible but I don't disagree that he could be scum. What Acrofales just said reminded me of that; it is very much a roleclaim that any scum could make (and so no, Acro, VE flipping town tells us nothing about BM's alignment because scum already know everyone's alignment) This perhaps does mean Sbrabbles is scum (or risk.nuke; I can't see Cephiro being scum). I suppose we'll see tomorrow. What do you think of prplhz? Of Palmar? Speaking of Palmar, you around Palmar? What are your thoughts on the game and why have you not done anything useful? You pride yourself on your day 1 reads and yet your game presence is completely lacking. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On April 03 2012 15:47 syllogism wrote: Are you scum wbg? Why do you attempt to know what thought process went into my decision? Why don't you find it odd that many people used/wasted their PoPs very early and attempt to make it look like me using my own PoPs at pretty much the last possible moment, given my local time, is suspicious? I made the reasonable assumption that risk is indeed the dt role he claims to be, as it's a very risky fake claim to do on day 1, especially with the possibility of the "real one" being out there. That left me with two targets for my pull and out of those sbrabbles was the obvious choice given that some of the things cephiro had posted looked town to me. The idea that plenty of people used their PoPs early just to make you look bad is incredibly far-fetched. Either that or your phrasing here means something else (explain?) What I was hung up on was why you accepted risk's roleclaim and how little time you spent in calling Cephiro town. On the other hand, you outright rejected BM's roleclaim, though for different reasons than I expected. I would have done the same, but your reasoning did not make sense to me and that's what made me think you were scum. To me, BM's roleclaim is less believable than risk's not because of balance concerns but because any mafia can call out two random players and call them both town. Risk's claim included at least one scum among 3, which is potentially verifiable. You chose to focus on the balance aspect, which if you think about it, make risk's and BM's roleclaims identical. As for the speculation of how VE died, now you become suspicious again. Why assume it was BM who killed VE? Was there a role in the previous game that functioned that way? (if so, please say so) My first thought was that scum had a hidden push power. You seem to have jumped to a more complex conclusion than that. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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Bluelightz
Indonesia2463 Posts
That aside, I think my role was designed to lower the amount of PoPs needed to kill scum, so for my plan to use my role we should put the scummiest players we have the two positions that are leftn(I know one of the spots that is safe of the 3 and will claim it) thereby guranteeing us scummy players dieing. | ||
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Bluelightz
Indonesia2463 Posts
YESYESYESYESYES MY WIFI IS FIXED <3 <3<3<3 and I will use my powers tonight. | ||
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Bluelightz
Indonesia2463 Posts
On April 03 2012 10:27 Sbrubbles wrote: Guys, I'll make my pull on syllo now. ##pull syllogism Another point is that we may be able to get another lynch in by pushing. There are still 8 pushes around and what I see as two viable candidates: Bluelightz: Gives a town read list almost first thing in the game then gives a strange explanation and lets it drop. Wtf? Pressured, he claims an ability that I just can't see as being town. I mean, lay down bombs and only he knows where they're at? Even if it's legit, I think it'd be too risky to use it. Above all, I think he needs to come here and use his pull. Cascades: He does a pull on Palmar to just to check if he was telling the truth when there was no purpose in him lying, even if he was scum. I mean, it would make sense if he was arguing in favor of Palmar getting his item, but otherwise a strange move. His suggestion on writing down what you expect to happen when you PoP imho doesn't add much and doesn't help. But it's a way to appear useful. This is the strange thing, though: How can he cut Blue's slack when he never pressured him in the first place? Opinions? Just clarifying my role but I DO NOT KNOW WHICH SPOT IS BOOBY TRAPPED OUT OF THE 3 BUT I KNOW 1 OF THE SPOTS THAT WILL BE PUBLICLY ANNOUNCED IS SAFE. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18102 Posts
On April 03 2012 16:03 Acrofales wrote: Good morning. Glad to see the rescue operation worked. At least this town can coordinate when it really tries. I will read through the pages of new posts and post my ideas later. For now, there's one thing I don't understand: if Palmar was ponied by VE and mobsters got some secret move to kill VE, how did Palmar not only live, bu move backwards? Not complaining, just confused. @palmar: VE got hmself killed for you. You'd better be worth a wasted D1. Final thoughts: VE flipping green probably means BM's roleclaim is true. Okay, I missed the message that VE dropped Palmar, so then it makes sense that he was moved alone. He also didn't move backwards... remembering the queue properly is confusing me :S Other than that, I would like to chip in on the whole risk.nuke, syllo, sbrubbles and cephiro quartet. I am inclined to believe risk.nuke, because he has evidence in the form of Ace's red lightbul thingy. That means he has some role that makes Ace post a red lightbulb. There might still be issues with sanity, but if we assume risk.nuke's check works the way he says it does, then one or more of syllo, sbrubbles and cephiro are scum. So here are my thoughts: Cephiro Seems very paranoid in much of his posting. Excessively afraid of Palmar getting the item: On April 03 2012 02:56 Cephiro wrote: Sigh. What is it with you people being so insanely obsessed with Palmar getting that item? Are you just living in a fairytale where everything that happens is the best case scenario, Palmar is innocent as a bird, gets a dayvig item, shoots a scum and everyone is happy? It seems to me that certain suggestions are going through way too easily. >_> Also, I will threaten to push Palmar over the edge if someone pushes him to the item. I do not trust him at all currently, and if he doesn't even bother responding to me, I'm fine by killing him. Now, I wasn't in favour of getting the item either, but mainly because of the risks involved, not over some trumped up fear of Palmar abusing the item. If Palmar were scum (and I'm not going to get into wifom about why he was roleblocked up there), then either he would be forced to use the item in a townie way, or he would be confirmed scum and get lynched the next day. I fail to see the problem of giving a, probably harmless, item to Palmar this early in the game. So this paranoid behaviour seems scummy to me: scum have a good reason for not wanting a townie to get the item. He was called out on this behaviour by Sbrubbles and his response was: On April 03 2012 08:55 Cephiro wrote: As I admit earlier, I may have come out slightly too aggressive-looking, but at that point I was convinced there should be absolutely no reason why I should let Palmar get the item, and he looked very scummy to me. He is by no means confirmed town to me after his frozed-ness, but at the moment I believe that it is for the best of town to get him rescued out of there. Maybe he'll even start contributing something. This does not convince me. He was not "slightly too aggressive-looking", he repeatedly threatened to push Palmar off the edge if he got to the item, which is way beyond "slightly too aggresive-looking", regardless of how scummy Palmar looked to him. I also don't see a proper explanation of why Palmar looked scummy anywhere in his filter. I agree with the second part: Palmar is by no means confirmed town, but more on that below. Another thing I don't like about his play is his insistence that he's town. Mafia or town, any player will always insist on being town, so the only reason to bring it up is to pad your filter in the hope that repetition makes it believable. However, everything else in his filter reads townie to me and the two points above are not strong enough scumtells to make me sure he's scum. Syllo The case against him seems to revolve around three things: 1. He's not playing town the way he normally plays town 2. He thinks BM is scum based on speculation about his roleclaim 3. He threw away his PoPs early, despite pushing for the voting system and saying people should be careful with their pops. Of these, only the third really stands out to me as a scumtell. I have not played with Syllo enough to say anything much about his meta. I also thought (and with WBG pointing out that VE flipping green proves nothing, still think) BM's roleclaim was dodgy. The ability seems strange, I see no reason to roleclaim it when he did, and generally I don't understand what BM was trying to accomplish with it. However, the third point stands out as scummy. We have Syllo posting: On April 02 2012 01:50 syllogism wrote: The problem with free for all PoPing is that once someone throws down their vote, they can't get it back. If that is allowed, scum can throw away their vote while hasty townies can waste theirs. If we later reach a consensus on "lynching" someone, the votes may not be there and we'll gain less information as some people may have already used "their votes". and then half a day later uses his PoPs in exactly the way he says should NOT happen. His explanation makes sense, but could equally well be scum covering his ass for doing something scummy: On April 03 2012 14:58 syllogism wrote: Because I had only little time and no one was actually willing to discuss who they would be willing to push? Only VE answered my inquiries, while the others were just talking about irrelevant things. As I pointed out very early, the "lynch" deadline is about 7+ hours too late for me. All in all, just as Cephiro, there is not enough here to say whether he's scum or not. Sbrubbles Ahhh, the shortest filter of all. He hopped in at a very convenient time: about 6 hours before the deadline and just as people were starting to get very suspicious of him. On April 03 2012 06:39 Sbrubbles wrote: Ta-da-da-da! Sbrubbles is here to save the day! Or something! ##push visceraeyes Now seriously, I just got off from work, this weekend was crazy, I couldn't post at all and blah-blah-blah-no-one-cares. I'm still sorry, though  .Uh huh. Right. And why should we believe you? I think you were lurking there all the time, and rather than saving the day, you hopped in to save your own ass. But that is all speculation that I cannot prove. Still, I really dislike this post. It continues on with some crazy speculation about how Palmar and VE are both scum and in cahoots to gain town trust: very strange and incredibly useless. His other 2 posts are a LOT better. He basically makes the case against Syllo, and voices his suspicions of Bluelightz and Cascades. Taken by itself, I would also say there is not enough evidence to say that Sbrubbles is scum. However, if we take into account that his case against Syllo was made AFTER risk.nuke posted his info, a scum Sbrubbles MUST cast suspicion onto either Cephiro or Syllo. The case for Syllo was almost made already, and given that he's also in Europe, was conveniently offline with no chance to defend himself. So out of the three suspects, I think Sbrubbles is the most scummy and will push for a lynch on him tomorrow. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18102 Posts
On April 03 2012 19:59 Bluelightz wrote: Just clarifying my role but I DO NOT KNOW WHICH SPOT IS BOOBY TRAPPED OUT OF THE 3 BUT I KNOW 1 OF THE SPOTS THAT WILL BE PUBLICLY ANNOUNCED IS SAFE. I still can't see any way of this being a town ability. Can you please explain the ability a bit better, because I cannot possibly see any way this would benefit town. Insofar as I understand your explanation: You choose (?) 3 positions in the queue and a bomb is placed in one of them. You know that ONE of these is safe (which is publicly announced). Firstly I'm not sure I even believe your claim: this is a strangely convoluted power: if one of them is guaranteed safe, then why not just select 2 positions randomly (I know, probabilities work out slightly differently, but not enough to matter). Secondly, the queue is randomized at the start of the day, so there's a good chance someone will start on the boobytrap and explode due to random. Because there's more town than scum, the chance this happens to town is greater than that it happens to scum. Now, assuming that doesn't happen, you then disclose the possible positions of your bombs and we start moving scummy players there. However, from D1 we know that scum has some kind of hidden move thingy. So all in all, your power has far more risk than reward for town. However, I cannot fathom why you would roleclaim such a power as scum, except to create confusion. Is that it? Are you just trying to confuse the shit out of people? | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
I'll try to justify me being alive later. | ||
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Bluelightz
Indonesia2463 Posts
I CAN ORDER THE MODS FOR THE QUEUE TO BE BOOBY TRAPPED THE NEXT DAY. IM USING IT TODAY SO D2 WILL HAVE A POSITION IN THE QUEUE BOOBY TRAPPED 3 RANDOMIZED POSITIONS IN THE QUEUE WILL BE ANNOUNCED PUBLICLY THE NEXT DAY, BUT ONLY 1 IS BOOBY TRAPPED. I CAN USE THIS POWER 2 TIMES. And the guy explodes during the next night post i.e(activate on night 1 explode on night 2 post so the guy wont instantly explode loll) SIDENOTE: RANDOMIZED BY MODS. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
On April 03 2012 22:12 Bluelightz wrote: My explanation sucks i guess here is a new and clear one I CAN ORDER THE MODS FOR THE QUEUE TO BE BOOBY TRAPPED THE NEXT DAY. IM USING IT TODAY SO D2 WILL HAVE A POSITION IN THE QUEUE BOOBY TRAPPED 3 RANDOMIZED POSITIONS IN THE QUEUE WILL BE ANNOUNCED PUBLICLY THE NEXT DAY, BUT ONLY 1 IS BOOBY TRAPPED. I CAN USE THIS POWER 2 TIMES. And the guy explodes during the next night post i.e(activate on night 1 explode on night 2 post so the guy wont instantly explode loll) SIDENOTE: RANDOMIZED BY MODS. What made you decide to use this power when you could just not use this power? | ||
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Bluelightz
Indonesia2463 Posts
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
On April 03 2012 22:24 Bluelightz wrote: Me atleast confirmed to my role and less PoPs to be used to keel people? We will have to use PoPs to get towny people out of potentially booby trapped positions and it's not a reliable way to kill scum since we don't know what position kills them. This will just lead to chaos, the whole role is so scum favored that I'm having second thoughts about your alignment. I trust your claim though because no scum would invent such a scum favored role just to randomly claim it. | ||
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