Toad's case on Sandroba v.2Some improvements (getting more into detail what I am talking about + a nice conclusion) however I have nothing included that was not in version 1. This is because I think people got me wrong and I am focusing on trying to get this better for now. I don't think you'll lynch sandroba with everyone attacking me right now so there's no need to include new things, just to make things a little more clear.
Also, there's basicly 4 possible ways to prove someone is scum:
1) You prove he's a bad townie. That's the one thing you can, if at all, only use against vets. Proving someone is a bad townie is the weakest proof possible and it can be wrong.
2) You prove he can't be a townie. That's what people are trying to do with BM. Saving Lanaia is something no townie would do imo. That's what I'm trying here. I will try to show that he can't be a townie because he is dodgy on purpose.
3) You prove he is mafia. That's obviously the strongest proof possible but it's very rare. That's what I'd call scumslips. That won't happen a lot.
4) Metaanalysis. If you know the style of player A differs wether he plays mafia or town.
Again. I'm aiming for a combination of 1) and 2)
I'll just quote something sandroba said, it's going to be big:
On January 17 2012 01:58 sandroba wrote:
Alright gotta go with GGQ. He is doing his usual scum meta which is popping in from time to time with short messages that don't explain shit. Not only that but most of them is actively spread doubt without trying to gather any support from others on his "beliefs". This is something that makes absolutely no sense from a town player to do, but fits mafia behavior quite nicely. Mafia wants to be ignored while putting in seeds of doubt in peoples head that are hard to trace back to the original source. And that's GGQ's play. He is mafia.
##Vote: GGQ
EVERYONE, do me a favor: Replace GGQ in his post with "sandroba" and look into sandrobas filter. He is doing the exact same thing. In fact the post I quoted is the only one that really explains something. If you're a clever townie you don't believe a word I say, because I'm doing the same thing he accuses GGQ to do and I am accusing him to do. I'm only posting some thoughts, maybe a little explanation but that could very well be bullshit. Now let's look into some posts he did to back up what I just said:
This is important. It's the very essence of what I am talking about. It is not about sandroba trolling, it is not about the lack of contribution early on it is about the fact that he is using several things to dodge discussion, not explain his thoughts at all. Just what he blames GGQ to do! So basicly everything I'm quoting beneath this line has something to do with sandrobas post I quoted above! Here we go:On January 13 2012 17:11 sandroba wrote:
Hi everybody, I'll be running for mayor and I need your support. The whole basis of my campaign is being town and pretty decent at figuring out scum. Myself holding day1 lynch and 3 votes everyday is a pretty good deal on average I'd say so. Also it's ridiculously easy to figure out my alignment not only because I suck as scum, but also because I hate it and usually can't keep up with the thread after a few days. So yeah, you don't have to worry about that because I'm thankfully town this game. Another benefit to electing me is that I usually get shot pretty early on (normally day2 the latest), and I can tell you that keeping me alive will improve town's chances by a lot. Let me say that there is no fucking reason to not elect a trustworthy established sumhunter in favor of electing a new player whose millage may vary. The main goal of the mayor role is to get someone who can reliably get scum lynched and be a threat to mafia. Putting in a random dude has no benefit to town and can even be detrimental if the dude has his head stuck up his ass.
So town gather up and give me your support, because mafia isn't going to let me get this position easily. It makes them feel unsafe and fearful. They are right. I'm coming for them.
[b]-tagged what is most funny / important imo."You don't have to worry about this because I'm thankfully town". He's trying to be funny, nothing bad but he does that A LOT and everytime he does that he's lacking an explanation. We can argue about how useful mayor campaigns are because like a lot of people already said they're pretty much the same and you it's hard to prove you're town in your very first post. Still I quoted it for completeness and examples.
Also, he hasn't scumhunted, has he? But that's just a sign of a bad townie.
On January 14 2012 04:26 sandroba wrote:
Okay let me address somethings I liked in this thread:
1) Proactinum post is the best one so far. Fuck yes I like it. Cyriandor is my top candidate for lynch if I get elected.
2) Jackal's idea is very good. If I'm elected I'll lynch 1 or 0 bg.
3) I'm seriously considering supporting a mason mass claim day1. Mafia will have to claim it early if they ever want to use it and it gives us good basis for discussion. These big games fall rapidly out of control if we don't keep focus and this will give us something to go by.
1) is what I call troll-Sandroba. Not explaining at all. using the term "fuck yes I like it" and not dropping anything that makes it possible to analyse it. He tells us cyri is his top candidate (which is he know to do so as mafia as well, look up XLVIII for reference)
2) is not bad at all, no troll but no explanation again, however I don't need to see an explanation in such a statement.
3) nothing bad but take a look at his mass-caps post about that later on
On January 14 2012 05:34 sandroba wrote:
Alright peeps here are the advantages of mass claim masons:
1) It forces mafia to come under a lot of scrutiny if they want to use the mason power. The plan is to watch these people closely and get a lot of the info out in the open, instead of allowing masons to operate in the shadows.
2) If mafia doesn't want the spot light they will probably not claim nor use their mason powers, which is very good for town. For this same reason we must not go on a witch hunt on the claimed masons, because they can be of any alignment and may be all town as well. We shall lynch people because of suspicious behavior, not because of trying to find mafia withing the masons.
3) There is not much of a downside to it. If mafia wants to waste their roleblock/kill on mason by all means be my guest. It further protects our really important blue roles which is great. If they choose to ignore them we are back in the same place we we're before with extra info as town that mafia opted not to use. Which is great.
here we go. Finally something he explains, however, as many people already pointed out that's incredible easy for mafia. I think BC or someone else told us that this is a common topic and there's talk about this even outside games because it's controversial. No problem to share thoughts on that one as a mafia.
Again, quoted for completeness. It's a good post but on a topic mafias have no problems to do make goods posts about.
On January 14 2012 05:48 sandroba wrote:
MASONS. FUCKING MASS CLAIM. RIGHT NOW. THERE IS NO DOWNSIDE.
Another post of what I call Troll-Sandroba. Mass caps to make it even more ridiculous. Not explaining a thing and I guess he's using mass caps to make people laugh so that I ignore the fact that he's not explaining shit at all.
Also this reminds me of his other mass caps post from last game. Again, he was mafia that game and tried to confuse people with his trolls.
On January 14 2012 15:38 sandroba wrote:
OkaY. We will not fucking lynch anyone important today. Period. We will lynch a baddie and if he flips town what the fuck ever. Town vets are going to get slaughtered/medic'ed soon and we will be able to make a much more informed decisionon their alignment. I'm going to still lynch ciryandor cuz he is ugly and smells bad. No one is going to lynch palmar/bc/whoever has a name because these guys are going to die or be scum which will make our lives easier. Trust me on this one and fucking vote for me. I'll rape bitches left and right and in the end we will make a party celebrating peace and love. Yes I'm fucking drunk but I'm still the man to get the job done. Peace.
He is contradicting himself a lot. I'll quote again "
OkaY. We will not fucking lynch anyone important today. Period." and goes on to suggest that lynching palmar is a good thing. I talked about this with him. He told me that he thought 5 our of 5 lynchoptions bc suggested are complete bullshit and only after one specific post palmar did thought that 4 out of 5 lynchoptions bc suggested are complete bullshit and palmar is okayish. It's another topic but why did he do that? I'd simply vote someone else into office. I wouldn't trust someone that gives me 4 lynchoptions I have a townread on to be town at all.
He is contradicting himself and again gives no explanation but "
Trust me on this one and fucking vote for me. I'll rape bitches left and right and in the end we will make a party celebrating peace and love. Yes I'm fucking drunk but I'm still the man to get the job done. Peace." which is again, pretty trollish to (imo) make people laugh instead of think about what he's leaving out.
On January 14 2012 15:40 sandroba wrote:
@palmar fuck you start playing properly already
nothing really. People already called him out multiple times to start playing serious and he does the same. Easy to do for mafia. Not saying that it makes him look mafia but it's not something that makes him look green. It's just a null.
Again quoted for completness.
On January 14 2012 15:49 sandroba wrote:Nah you don't interest me. Plus I wish I could. Maybe I can. Who the fuck knows.
same as above. Quoted for completeness (i seriously have to copy and past that word every time because I don't know how it's written
)
On January 14 2012 16:26 sandroba wrote:
Alright people I want to get elected and no one is fucking voting for me. What do you want me to do so you would fucking vote? Tell me and I'll do it. I have plenty of time right now and I can post random useless shit if that's what get's you voting.
Another troll of sandroba. Nothing important. Posting something that is literally nothing and gets away with it.
On January 14 2012 16:34 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 16:31 bumatlarge wrote:On January 14 2012 16:26 sandroba wrote:
Alright people I want to get elected and no one is fucking voting for me. What do you want me to do so you would fucking vote? Tell me and I'll do it. I have plenty of time right now and I can post random useless shit if that's what get's you voting.
Why ciryandor?
I think I talked about this already. He's ugly and smells bad. Also protact's case was the best thing to land on this thread so far. Also I might lynch a bg instead. Who knows.
Another troll. He's asked about his reasons, yet he
REFUSES to talk about them. Why? Give me a single reason Town-sandroba would do that?
On January 14 2012 16:46 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 16:31 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On January 14 2012 16:26 sandroba wrote:
Alright people I want to get elected and no one is fucking voting for me. What do you want me to do so you would fucking vote? Tell me and I'll do it. I have plenty of time right now and I can post random useless shit if that's what get's you voting.
Turn everything you do into about 3 paragraphs, even if it could have been a line.
I was walking down the street one day and I suddenly a foul scent hit my nose. I was like what the shit, where the fuck is this coming from? Did I just step on human fesses or what? After checking my feet and realizing it was clean I looked around and spotted a horrid looking creature that dropped 2 terrible posts in the begging of a game then was never heard of again. It was ciryandor. Protact had warned me about his unpleasant presence. Right then I decided I would rid the world of such disturbing annoyance and thus I hit him repeatedly over the head with my grandma's shoes. He finally succumbed, bored into oblivion. I felt victorious after checking my grandma's shoes and realizing a crimson taint had soaked them. Life was good. Being mayor made me proud. The whole idea of being elected to kill some random dude and being able to single handedly execute it was exciting. I stretched out my arm and an eagle landed on it. Fuck yes I'm a boss.
After trolling himself CC is answering with irony to get him talking. Still nothing sandroba is doing. Sure he was literally asked this time to troll but you could have catched the drift to just start explaining his thoughts.
On January 15 2012 05:54 sandroba wrote:
K people I have a problem that I don't have anyone I can vote on because I don't like any of the lynch candidates. I'd vote protact if he changed back to ciryandor or BC if he change off of protactinum. I need to go out in about 30 min and won't be here for the lynch so unless fw can let me delay the lynch for like 6 hours I can't be mayor. Make sure I get sheriff though.
Fuck i need to decide fast.
nothing at all. No explanation and again saying mayor candidates look bad is easy to do for mafia. Same as above, not scummy but not townish as well
On January 15 2012 06:05 sandroba wrote:
Palmar you need to try harder, you are too easy to spot as scum nowadays. I'd rather not lynch any vets day1 but you make it so hard not to lynch you. Please go die in a corner.
I'll vote BC since we came to a compromise in pms. Gotta roll.
##Vote: BloodyC0bbler
I already said something about this one: "we're not going to lynch a vet. Period." => "yeah let's lynch palmar". It seems like he uses his "we're not going to lynch vets" - argument how it pleases him depending on wether it's good for him or not because clearly this is not making sense at all
On January 15 2012 14:10 sandroba wrote:
Yo I'm back. I didn't even know there was a separate voting thread, so i voted here. My bad, won't happen again. Thanks for not modkilling me =)
He can't keep up with the thread / doesn't even know the rules. Isn't that something that, according to his own words, tell us he's scum? I'll just quote what I'm talking about from his mayoral campaign
On January 13 2012 17:11 sandroba wrote:
Also it's ridiculously easy to figure out my alignment not only because I suck as scum, but also because I hate it and usually can't keep up with the thread after a few days. [...]
On January 17 2012 02:28 sandroba wrote:
What in the fuck is that post jayjay? That whole wall post doesn't say shit and your conclusion is even more baffling to me. Nice try scum, but you need to make a bit more sense if you want to look good. Huge walls of nothing ain't gonna cut it.
calling out a new guy. I don't mind him callimg jayjay out at all. But "nice try scum" is just bullshit after jj's post imo.
Supersoft called me out last game for doing shit like that and he was right as well. Scum need to get some reason to call people out. Vet's won't call new players mafia after one post that sucks because they know new players do stupid things from time to time. This looks like sandroba desperatly trying to get some +points because again I can see him calling JJ out as a town player. I hower can NOT see him calling him mafia just because of one little post.
On January 17 2012 03:00 sandroba wrote:
Well if I could be sure vigis would shoot this dude sure. But lurking or not I'm pretty sure he is scum because of the way he is operating and lynching scum, lurker or not, generates a lot of good info.
wat? circular reasoning.
On January 17 2012 03:28 sandroba wrote:
I'm not quite sure on him because jackal is freaking jackal, but last time he was town i could tell right away and he did put in some effort and got killed early on. He just seems lazy and jumping on convenient stuff and he is back to his usual useless one line posting which he used to do as both alignments. He's either made a step back or he is scum this game, I need more to decide accurately, but I'm leaning scum on him atm.
I'm going to be honest here: I disagree with him but it is at least an explanation. The only one he did on topics that are not easily discussible for mafias.
On January 17 2012 03:31 sandroba wrote:
One thing that tipped me off is him comparing my play to the game we played together as scum, which he should be able to do better and realize that's not the same.
Easy thing to do. Not providing examples. Just saying something.
big fancy conclusion:Sandroba is not only lacking explanation in everything he said, he also activly refuses to give reasons to why he thinks the way he does. Imo he is using humour / troll-posts to distract from the fact that he is not giving a shit at all and everytime he did some fancy "fuck this, this is awesome" post or whatever else he could have easily just typed 1 or 2 lines to explain why he thinks the way he does. Furthermore, as already pointed out, he refuses do talk about is thoughts even when directly asked and dodges topics that are not easy to discuss as mafia.
I don't see him doing that as a townie.
EPT
