EPTNewbie Mini Mafia II - Page 46
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CatsnHats
United States199 Posts
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Okay people, we need to get scum today no matter what. I'm being unsure at the moment though. Although now that we have less players, I'm pretty sure Paper is scum. Cats, I want your response. I'll check Cephiro's fliter too, everybody's been going about how he's "confirmed town", by Prob and others, and that is dangerous. | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
On January 13 2012 10:42 CatsnHats wrote: EBWOP: I don't really think you are scum, Cephiro. You have to be included because you weren't confirmed by Prob, but you were the reason he checked Sheth, so you're town in my eyes. Lynch Gonzaw, then Paperscraps and we win! But you weren't confirmed by Prob either any more than me. (I consider confirmed by Prob only the people that he checked) I'm still not sold on that you would be a townie. Could you provide YOUR cases on Gonzaw and Paperscraps, and include that why do you think the other is a bigger threat? I will be leaving in a few minutes myself, but when I come back, I'm going to post a lot. A LOT. (And it's not going to be useless fluff.) | ||
bkrow
Australia8532 Posts
I have always been suspicious of Paper so that is where i will place my vote by the end of the day unless i get convinced otherwise. BRB 1 hour peeps  let's do this town! | ||
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CatsnHats
United States199 Posts
On January 11 2012 05:23 CatsnHats wrote: Probulous you probably weren't expecting this, but I'm about to change up my read. The more I read Blurry's thread, and I've read through it multiple times now, the more I think he is just a lurker newb not sure how to contribute. Even when he sheeped against me so hard recently, he admitted that he was doing it immediately. He was the 2nd person to vote for Sheth (and he had a surprisingly good read on him for posting so little). And the WIFOM posts I called him out on earlier make more sense in light of the fact that he says he has been using his gut alot since he feels his analysis isn't up to par. Your gut is the only way to make a decision about a WIFOM situation. I feel like I can read newb play, being that I was/still am one, and Blurry definitely strikes me as a lurker newb town now. Thats being said, he still needs to post more. All of this reading wasn't in vain, because after perusing through filters I found a different target. Paperscraps: Being a Replacement Doesn't Make You Innocent ![[image loading]](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Pp9Bilr1L._SL500_AA300_.jpg) A replacement for Gretorp, Paperscraps wasn't done any favors by having a terrible predecessor. Gretorp was a shady, shady player, drawing the suspicions of everyone despite having a small number of posts. Tunkeg the night killed townie called out Gretorp for lurking and responded with this: What is this other than OMGUS and an attempt to confuse the town? A very shitty move for a townie to make. After being pressured on this ridiculous post, Gretorp responds: In other words, "LOL jk guys if I promise to make reads will you stop pressuring me?" These are Gretorp's last 3 posts. Post #1 is an attempt to put pressure on someone else. Post #2 is an attempt to make an excuse to relieve the pressure on himself. And Post #3 is an attempt to make a promise to relieve the pressure on himself. And then poof, he was gone. This reads really scummy to me. Enter Paperscraps. Here's his first post. Much better than Gretorp, but that isn't saying much. His reads are pretty interesting though. He picks Xeris, a bigger lurker than Gretorp, and Blurry, a player already under an eye of scrutiny. This is an easy thing to do. And he doesn't give any reasoning for his picks. Sheeping/ghosing, call it what you will. It definitely isn't original though. Next post. Blurry stays scum. Xeris changes to null (probably because he's caught up with everyone's opinion Xeris by now), and I am town. Keep this in mind. He also posts the 3 clearest town reads as his own. Nothing original. When Probulous questions him on his reads, Paper agrees and changes his mind about me, claiming he will re-read my filter. Xeris is also off his radar completely. Most interesting however is the fact that he sticks to his case that Blurry is scummy. Paper claims that: "Blurry doesn't agree to vote up Sheth until you ask him if he will. All his posts previous to that have no read on Sheth or say he he may be slightly town. I guess you are right that it is stupid to jump from Cats to Sheth, but you, one of the best readers in this game, think he is town now. Maybe that is what he wanted to happen. I still think he is scummy." Blurry acutally did post analysis on Sheth. Even though it was scant, it was correct, and he was the only one up to that point other than Prob to question Sheth. Paper, as scum, knows that Blurry is town, so he's neglecting facts to cast a shadow on a suspected player. Paperscraps then busses Jitsu, using his death during N2 as evidence for Jitsu being correct about me being scum. This is sheeping against the most suspected townie. Paperscraps next two posts are further sheeping of Jitsu's analysis of me. There is no reason to quote them, they are one-liners and are easy to find on his small filter. With my new opinion that Blurry is town, I think Paperscraps is scum sheeping against the two questioned townies, me and Blurry. Because of all of this reasoning above: ##Unvote: Blurry ##Vote: Paperscraps I look forward to your response Paperscraps. And at this point I think Xeris/Kronhjort is going to get mod-killed, and if he flips blue/green, I will be PISSED. On January 11 2012 13:26 CatsnHats wrote: Overall this is a poor rebuttal Paperscraps. My answers are bolded and underlined. On January 11 2012 14:55 CatsnHats wrote: Really? I know apologizing can be a scum-tell but I actually missed/misunderstood what he was referring too, apologized for it, and he cleared it up. You're reaching. And of course lynching the lurker or me would be best for you, because neither of them are YOU. And that doesn't help your case towards being town. Alot of the grunt work analysis done on me was before you entered the game and I picked up my play, you have no claim to it other than bandwagon. And lynching a lurker gets no one town cred. On January 12 2012 06:18 CatsnHats wrote: What out of this post am I dodging, exactly? There isn't really a question posed to me. For #1, it's good that you posted and are active, but you were just echoing the past (very vocalized) concerns of other players, so it doesn't really do anything to help you. I love #2. "As for your analysis of Blurry, I actually agree with it." Haha I thought you were going to shoot holes in it, but oh well. And in #3, you admit to skipping over the evidence that debunks your argument (that Blurry thought Sheth was town), that just doesn't sit well with me. As for #4, the WIFOM hypothetical is you saying this in the post where you vote for me (section bolded): This whole scenario is impossible to prove and is pretty outlandish if you ask me. WIFOM like this does nothing to help the town. It is a good way for scum to deflect pressure though. He hasn't really posted much since, trying to fly under the radar if you ask me. Him sheeping against Blurry makes him look pretty bad after the fact too. I don't have an official write up on Gonzaw yet, but I think we should lynch Paperscraps first because he is the safer of the two options in my eyes. That way we can extend the game another day and you/bkrow can make more reads on Gonzaw and me to make up your minds between the two of us. | ||
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CatsnHats
United States199 Posts
On January 13 2012 11:05 bkrow wrote: So i'm here! I am running out for an hour, but i have caught up on the thread; Prob a DT.. Fuck me! Did he say who he checked on all the nights? I just wanted to let ya'll know i am here for about 3 and a half hours and then i will probably AFK except for my vote (i am getting married next weekend, and this weekend is a big deal in my religion) I have always been suspicious of Paper so that is where i will place my vote by the end of the day unless i get convinced otherwise. BRB 1 hour peeps let's do this town!N1: Sheth N2: bkrow (you) N3: Gonzaw, but we didn't get to find out his role. | ||
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bkrow
Australia8532 Posts
I wonder how much we can take from this: On January 13 2012 10:24 Probulous wrote: That's exactly why I didn't paly like a blue. Yup your scum In reply to Gonz's post. | ||
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Paperscraps
United States639 Posts
Usually when I post it is when everyone is least active, which is inconvenient, because I can't defend my self right away. I just got home, so I am posting this to confirm. I will provide some analysis and reads in a bit and defend my innocence after I get some food in me. I am leaning towards Gonz and Cats being mafia at the moment. Something that was said, that really struck out to me was that we shouldn't take any one for granted of being innocent. We all need to question each other and pressure everyone accordingly. I have a lot of convincing to do on my part, since it seems the majority are against me now on my brief skim through. Man I really wished Prob could have gotten a read on someone that was alive, but then again that would have changed all his previous arguments. Can't dwell on the past now. | ||
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bkrow
Australia8532 Posts
that seems like a pretty solid read .. | ||
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Paperscraps
United States639 Posts
On January 13 2012 12:26 bkrow wrote: He said to gonz "you are scum" that seems like a pretty solid read .. Calm down there ace. I just got home and ate food. I will post analysis in a bit. | ||
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Paperscraps
United States639 Posts
bkrow (confirmed town) Cephiro Paperscraps Gonzaw CatsnHats @Gonzaw: (Answers to your post in bold.) + Show Spoiler + On January 13 2012 08:48 gonzaw wrote: Wtf people? It's less than 1 hour and a half before the night ends and nobody's posting shit? We are at LYLO tomorrow for fucks sake!! Okay Paperscraps, I found your "read" on Blurry odd as hell. Here are all the times you mention Blurry: + Show Spoiler + On January 10 2012 09:39 Paperscraps wrote:Blurry Scum 1. + Show Spoiler + On January 08 2012 22:40 Blurry wrote: Yes I would, and will. #Vote: Liquid'Sheth As to gonzaw's statement of me simply regurgitating information. For the most part that has been true but I've been going by my gut, which is not something you can post when convincing other people to take your side. I've been suspicious of Sheth from the start but don't have the analysis skills to back it up (I know that will read as scummy but bear with me) and write an informed post as to why. If I don't have the evidence to back up my feelings then there is no point in posting it. Either Blurry is trying to bus his mafia buddy, to alleviate further pressure from himself or has great gut instincts. I am leaning more toward the former, but he did make somewhat of a case about Sheth just pressuring and not weeding out scum. Read through his filter, something just doesn't feel right about him. I am interested in what his response will be. Okay, so you start right off thinking Blurry is scum. However you justify it by your "leaning more towards the former" on a WIFOM situation, and the "something just doesn't feel right about him" wishy washiness. I agree that this was all speculation, I will leave out wishy washy remarks in the future. + Show Spoiler + Blurry doesn't agree to vote up Sheth until you ask him if he will. All his posts previous to that have no read on Sheth or say he he may be slightly town. I guess you are right that it is stupid to jump from Cats to Sheth, but you, one of the best readers in this game, think he is town now. Maybe that is what he wanted to happen. I still think he is scummy. Okay, that is a good reason though, which is what I stated earlier. + Show Spoiler + I am still leaning toward scum on Blurry as well. + Show Spoiler + @Prob: Yeah I can agree with all of this. Right now Cats>Blurry, due to the death of Jitsu and re-reading the filters of Jitsu, Cats and Sheth. Now suddenly you focus on Cats instead of Blurry just because of Jitsu's death and filter. What made you think Blurry was less scum than Cats? Why didn't you pursue Blurry more? I was thinking that Cats was much more probable than Blurry first off. After reading through Blurry's filter, he just seemed more inexperienced and more town. Probulous also thinking Blurry being town weighed a lot with me, because probulous had good reads and analysis thus far. + Show Spoiler + I still am not quite sure about Blurry, he hasn't really done anything to justify himself as of yet. Also your sudden change of heart about him isn't helping that either, because you are the scummiest read town has at the moment. "I still am not quite sure about Blurry"? Didn't you say he was scum before? You even put Blurry in the "Cats>Blurry" scum-o-meter. You also say he hasn't done anything to justify himself as of yet, and instead of convincing you he's scum, it convinces you that you are not sure? That doesn't make any sense. I should have made it clear that the general census of the town leaning towards Blurry being innocent was swaying what I was thinking about him. I kept linking Blurry with Sheth. Blurry somewhat called Sheth out early on, but never followed up later. This was probably the main reason that I thought Blurry was scum. Prob and the rest of town convinced me otherwise. Even Cats started to convince me that Blurry was town. + Show Spoiler + 4.Basically this all sums up to a redirection or deflection of scrutiny that is on you Cats and Blurry. I am positive that Cats in scum now, because he is scared that I suspect him of it and now gives some pretty trivial/wrong accusations against me. Sounds like he is getting desperate. This also further makes Blurry look bad. All of a sudden Blurry is clean in your eyes? or maybe he is your scum buddy! I am guessing that latter. I bet this was your plan for the whole day to vote up Blurry, then have some sudden revelation and vote up a townie who isn't even responsible for half of his time in the game yet. Now instead of "not being sure about Blurry" you still think he's scummy. But you don't outright say it. You say "this also further makes Blurry look bad" and "maybe he is your scumbuddy! I am guessing that latter" You are implying that if Cats is scum, then Blurry may be too. You are not saying Blurry is scum, you are just casting suspicion on him by your tunneling of Cats Yeah, now I was linking Blurry with Cats. Cats was pushing for Blurry to be lynched then switched to me, which made me think that it was some sort of trick. I was wrong on this. Noob mistake on my part. + Show Spoiler + Blurry slightly scummy(this depending on the current lynch of Cats). Cats strong scum read. That leaves me as well, but I don't really know how the majority read me yet. Blurry voting up Cats could be his redemption though. So Blurry voting up Cats is his redemption? What? I was thinking that Cats is mafia, so if Blurry voted up Cats then that would mean that Blurry would indeed be town. + Show Spoiler + As for your analysis of Blurry: I can actually agree with this. I wish he would post more. He has you pegged as scum, so that makes him a little less noob though, haha. 3. Blurry does call out Sheth. I skipped over that because he does it in a shy way though and never follows through with analysis. "He has you pegged as scum, so that makes him a little less noob though, haha." What? So you just forget about Blurry being scum because of that? Not just because of that, but also in general the town was swaying more towards Blurry being town. Blurry made a decent case against Cats. I didn't forget about Blurry being scum, but rather Blurry was lower on my list. I was thinking Cats would be a safer bet. + Show Spoiler + Lynching Cats or Xeris is win-win for me. And here you never mention Blurry either, even though you had him as "scum" for a long time. You basicly forget about him, even though he did almost nothing, and there was a case and pressure against him. And what was that constant change of opinion on Blurry? First you thought he was scum. Then you weren't sure. Then you thought he was Cat's scumbuddy, but then stopped thinking he was scum. And you gave almost no reason for these change of opinions. Also, if you thought Blurry was scum, why did you ignore my case against him? This I find odd as hell. It looks like you wanted to make Blurry suspicious but didn't want to actually make a case or anything against him on your own, nor you wanted to sheep other people's cases either. If you thought he was scum, then surely you must have paid attention to my case, but you never mentioned it in the slightest The constant change of opinions is due to getting caught up with the game, re-reading peoples filters and the general feeling of the town. Thinking he was Cats' scum buddy, was just hypothetical. I didn't ignore your case against Blurry. I just didn't find it very strong. I think the fact that Sheth and Blurry didn't talk much was due to Blurry being inexperienced plain and simple. I don't know why I have to mention other peoples arguments against people, when I make my own. That is unreasonable. Also: + Show Spoiler + On January 12 2012 13:54 Paperscraps wrote: Just got back from school. Wow oh wow at what happened. Dang I wish Blurry didn't make a huge blunder like that. Town is in bad shape. Seems like Cats and Prob or Gonz are mafia. Will be interesting to see who they target tonight. If Prob dies, then it is Cats and Gonz If Gonz dies, then it is Cats and Prob If I die, which I won't think will happen due to people being suspicious of me, then I don't know who the last mafia is. What is this? You just assume both Cephiro and BK are town? And you don't give any reasons for it? It is not so much that I am assuming people are town, but rather that I thought Cats and you were more probable to be scum than others at the time in such a situation. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ryfRZ.jpg) I am more and more convinced now that Gonzaw is mafia. His general hostility in the game doesn't help him in the slightest. Gonzaw wrote: So, you made a great analysis of why a player is town. Is this game about finding townies? No. I already said this to Cephiro, our priority is not finding townies. Your priority is not posting walls of text of who you find townie. Your priority is finding scum. Now, apparently you forgot about that part. Pretty harsh thing to say. Making a case for someone being town is just as effective as making a case for someone being scum. Scum are the people that don't want others to know who town are. Gonzaw:+ Show Spoiler + On January 05 2012 08:13 CookieMaker wrote: + Show Spoiler + On January 05 2012 07:58 AnxiousHippo wrote: This is one of the worst posts so far. Cookiemaker points out that Probulous leaves right after making accusations, and later says that he's about to go to sleep too. He also talks vaguely about how people are trusting eachother but so far it's only been cephiro and catsnhats, there's barely any trust from everyone else. He then uses a fancy metaphor which always annoys me, like they're trying to sound better. Then he posts some more useless metaphorical stuff saying he wants people to be a bit more active. and then a poem. cookiemaker clarify what players seem to be trusting eachother sheth tell us what posts are bothering you Also, where did blurry go? @AH The players who I saw as "trusting" each other were Sheth, Probu, and Gonz, who seemed to be employing the similar tactic of applying "harmless" pressure to see what the responses would be. I was going to just come out and say it, but I didn't want to players under fire to be let off that easy, so instead I wrote the cute little Haiku Now really going for food, stay tuned for more action. What? If I pressure people the same way as another player, I trust him? I don't think that makes much sense. Also, I don't really "trust" people in mafia games. I either think they are town, scum, or I'm indecisive. Even if they are town, I may still not trust them. For instance, I may not trust their reads. I believe Probu to be town for instance (for now, he's been absent for some time and I find that worrysome), but even if that's the case I don't really trust him for now. If he finds some scum, then maybe I will. Also, you never explained that "I will vote for the one that has less votes" part, it seems you are trying to ignore that we pointed it out. I think you are scum bro. Gonzaw then proceeds to vote up CM. He doesn't provide any real evidence against CM. On January 06 2012 05:44 gonzaw wrote: Wut? My vote is on Cookie/Tea, and it will stay the same for now, at least until Tea responds back. I thought Cookie was scum, and Tea isn't doing anything to change my mind. Gonzaws sticks with his vendetta against CM(AKCT), with no real evidence. Gonzaw:+ Show Spoiler + Blurry: I haven't contributed much other than the Roleblocker thing but I will stand by that. If someone gets role blocked they should immediately say it. The more information the better, and it would be risky for a mafia to claim being role blocked if it gets revealed that there really isn't he is automatically implicated. So guys, if you get role blocked: make sure you tell us. Isn't this kind of obvious? Of course if a townie is RBed he should claim, why did you feel the need to state so? Gonzaw is trying to cast suspicion on to Blurry. He knows that the mafia isn't going to use their role blocker, so that the town is at a disadvantage. This very reasoning lead us to the mis-lynch of Blurry. Oh the irony On January 06 2012 11:55 gonzaw wrote: EBWOP: ....what? Okay, first things first: this is a GAME Even if you say you "suck" at it and make "town" pay or something, try and get better at it. Make it like a New Year's Resolution: I'll be good at TL mafia. You are actually making it worse for us this way. You will make us waste all of D2 because you want us to lynch you there. If you are town, we will not find any scum because of it. If you are town, and you act "scummy" and such, it would be better to misslynch you if you fight and defend yourself than lynch you just because you are a burden or something. In the first case we can get more info actually. If you are scum, then maybe you just don't like being under so much pressure, so you acted like you "surrendered", and maybe even ask for a replacement because you are coming under too much fire. Whatever the case (if you are town or scum)., you are not doing us any favour, and you are not doing any favours to yourself, so regain yourself goddammit! This is the same thing Sheth did. He gave a pep talk to Cats to not throw the game. Gonzaw: My conclusion is that Blurry's reasons for voting Cookie are shit, because he regurgitated what other people said. Gonzaw claims that Blurry's reasons for voting up CM(AKCT) are bad. Gonzaw: Okay, there are 2 basic reasons for voting Tea (or AKCT, whatever): 1-For previous reasons of certain players 2-A bandwagon vote to avoid a no-lynch. Players in the 1st category would include: Me, Tunkmeg, Blurry Players in the 2nd category would include: CatsHats, Sheth, Prob, Jitsu, Cephiro, Hippo Yet, Gonzaw claims that Blurry's reason were part of the reasons why he voted up CM(AKCT). Sounds like a contradiction to me. On January 08 2012 10:31 gonzaw wrote: ?? I had a null read on him until you posted your case, in which case I now have a scum read on him. You posted your case on him after you posed that question, so my answer was about what I thought of him at that point in time. I don't get how that could be misinterpreted. And yes, Sheth hasn't really been accused until now, his response can make us change our minds or make us more assured if he's scum. And I think we can notice if he's trying to "cast doubt" on what you've written. However I won't be around to see it. I'm going out now, and tomorrow as soon as I wake up I'll be going out of town for like 1-2 days, so I won't be around until that time. I hope I get back before it's too late on Day 3 though. So fuck Sheth, I was waiting for his response, but I need to make a placeholder vote, and the case against him is the best we have at the moment IMO, considering Blurry is ignoring me and Xeris just disappeared off the face of the Earth. ##Vote: Liquid`Sheth Then, Gonzaw sheeps/bandwagons(whatever you want to call it) with Prob in the lynching of Sheth. He doesn't provide any analysis of Sheth and says he had a null reason of him up until this point. Of course we know now that Prob knew for a fact that Sheth was mafia, but at the time no one knew this. Then he just disappears and leaves his scum buddy to die, so he doesn't have to provide any reasoning to his vote. + Show Spoiler + On January 11 2012 07:43 gonzaw wrote: Omg, this is so awesome! Not only was Xeris inactive throughout the whole game, but his replacement is too! /sarcasm For fucks sake, you know what's actually annoying me? That if kronhort survives until LYLO (if we get there), then we are absolutely fucked. Deciding if he's scum or not is basicly the same as tossing a coin in the air. + Show Spoiler + On January 10 2012 11:49 Probulous wrote: Calm down matey. The only reason people were getting suspicious is because of Jitsu's post. I stand by my read on you based on a few things. The most obvious being you are aggressive and have called people on their shit. Contrary to what others might think, your argument with Tunk makes you look more town than mafia. I see no reason for mafia to call attention to their hit right before the day post. It is just stupidly and unnecessarily putting themselves in the spotlight. As for my WIFOM, I think it is pretty clear that there is no roleblocker, that is all I wanted to gain from it. No need to get all antsy about it. The WIFOM about you was to get people's thoughts on what is more likely. Clearly Cats is far more scummy than you, that is what I was trying to point out. I stand by my Blurry read. You have to make up your mind on limited information, Blurry looks a lot less scummy than Cats. He hasn't said or done much but what he has looks like a newbie town in my eyes. You don't agree, why? You can justify what he has done from both a mafia or town POV, but one is more likely than the other given the reads you have on other people and how they flipped. I don't see how Blurry bussing Sheth so early is more likely than him just being a sheeping town. Finally, anyone with half a brain knew you were away. You had a legitimate reason to put a placeholder vote down, and you placed it on a scum. You had been pushing Cats all game long, as mafia it would have been easier for you to just vote Cats as a placeholder and try to split the vote. In the same manner as Blurry, I think your early vote stands in your favour. *sigh* yeah, I kind of got a little bit carried away there. + Show Spoiler + On January 08 2012 22:40 Blurry wrote: Yes I would, and will. #Vote: Liquid'Sheth As to gonzaw's statement of me simply regurgitating information. For the most part that has been true but I've been going by my gut, which is not something you can post when convincing other people to take your side. I've been suspicious of Sheth from the start but don't have the analysis skills to back it up (I know that will read as scummy but bear with me) and write an informed post as to why. If I don't have the evidence to back up my feelings then there is no point in posting it. + Show Spoiler + On January 05 2012 08:28 Blurry wrote: 2: Sheth Theres one post by him that caught my attention: This for me could mean one of two things: A. A subtle claim to not being scum based on the logic that Jitsu would know immediately. Or B. I will be able to tell whether or not Jitsu is or is not scum. Other than this he has been aggressive in terms of trying to get people on the defensive (CatsnHats) which I like as holes will show in peoples stories. Right now I'm feeling like he would be town rather than scum but I think time will tell. . + Show Spoiler + On January 07 2012 17:19 Blurry wrote: I've been trying to figure out why someone would target Tunkeg rather than someone like Probulous (posted the most analysis and was one of the most assertive players thus far). I think this could potentially tell us certain things. Probulous posted his reads on all the players in the game categorizing them by who he thought was town/neutral/mafia. While this does not make him seem any more scummy. My instinct on this is that a player who is mafia is categorized by him as being town and this cover would be useful to the mafia in some way. My other thought is that Tunkeg was pressuring someone that was mafia in a way that made him the biggest threat. He was pressuring Gonzaw and Cephiro and also did a little bit on Sheth. Since Cephiro was already cast under so much suspicion by Probulous I infer that there is a high chance that either Gonzaw or Sheth, or both are scum and am going to re-read their posts thoroughly. My initial instinct is that Sheth is the more likely candidate as he has literally posted zero analysis and has simply pressured or challenged peoples points rather than helping us weed out scum. These were the only 2 times you ever mentioned Sheth. You even thought he was more likely town than scum the first time, that's a blatant contradiction of "I've been suspicious of Sheth from the start". So can you tell me wtf this is? You should be lynched just by this alone, it's a blatant lie. And now you are still emulating other people's formatting. Although I'm confused now, I don't know if you were making fun of Prob there or not. I also don't like your "I'm playing from my gut" attitude, I don't like your "I'll emulate other players" attitude either. These make it so easy for you to justify bandwagoning, sheeping, and whatever the hell you want if you are scum, which is what I think you are doing. I also won't dwell into the "it was early to bus him, maybe not" WIFOM. Sheth had already a static vote on him (mine), and 2 players already were intent on lynching him (Prob, Cephiro), that's half the votes needed for a lynch. You don't need more than half a brain to see that he was a very likely lynch candidate by then, so whatever WIFOM regarding that is useless. I also don't get what "town" thing he did by now. + Show Spoiler + On January 10 2012 12:11 Blurry wrote: I will say this to those that may claim that I have done a similar thing (which I have). I am, as Probulous so eloquently pointed out, a blatant sheep. I go where the grasses are the greenest and if someone has a good argument I believe them W...T...F? You know what does in fact make me more suspicious? The actual fact that Sheth and Blurry barely talked to each other at all This is the only time one of them talked to the other one directly in early game: + Show Spoiler + On January 05 2012 12:22 Liquid`Sheth wrote: I said this because in the last game we played together I was scum and he was town. Thats why its worded that way. Its just a claim that he has recent experience with me and I have with him. Now, after Sheth was pressured to being lynched, he posts this: + Show Spoiler + On January 09 2012 05:29 Liquid`Sheth wrote: Just going to post my thoughts on the others, as I am going to go watch Steelers v Broncos at a friends house soon, and I had some things come up today I didn't expect. 7. Probulous -- Townie at the start. Sooo townie at the start. Has recently started making a few logical mistakes. (Both against myself and Cephiro). Implying that Cephiro is a confirmed townie has me looking at you so much right now, but as of now my brain can't make sense of you. Null 8. Blurry -- Havn't filtered you in depth yet, but can get into basics. This post + Show Spoiler + On January 05 2012 08:28 Blurry wrote: About me being inactive: Sorry,I've been out all day since I'm on vacation in Montreal, and while it says I'm from Switzerland I recently moved to USA (EST) and have neglected to change my profile because I'm a little bit homesick+lazy. Anyways: back to the game, 1: Cookiemaker AnxiousHippo raised a very good point about Cookiemakers most recent post in his stating that trust has been developing amongst certain townies without providing examples. There was no reason for him to say this other than to try and fluff up his posts. Right now he seems scummy to me. 2: Sheth Theres one post by him that caught my attention: This for me could mean one of two things: A. A subtle claim to not being scum based on the logic that Jitsu would know immediately. Or B. I will be able to tell whether or not Jitsu is or is not scum. Other than this he has been aggressive in terms of trying to get people on the defensive (CatsnHats) which I like as holes will show in peoples stories. Right now I'm feeling like he would be town rather than scum but I think time will tell. 3: AnxiousHippo Cites his inexperience as a way out of having to provide much analysis but also hasn't said anything too scummy. I'm feeling neutral. 4: Cephiro Provided a lot of good points and has contributed a good deal to the discussion. I don't think think Mafia would be leading the discussion like he has been, especially at this level. Definitely leaning towards town on him. 5: Tunkeg Tries to get everybody to contribute which I like. Is very clear in his stance which is another good thing. Leaning towards town on him. 6: Jitsu I'm getting a town vibe from him as well as he asked for someones opinion on himself. This could however be a clever mafia play to try and discover where the holes in his play are. Leaning towards town as he has been pressuring people to contribute. Just shows that you havn't put much time into the game at this point. You proceed to say something here + Show Spoiler + On January 07 2012 17:19 Blurry wrote: I've been trying to figure out why someone would target Tunkeg rather than someone like Probulous (posted the most analysis and was one of the most assertive players thus far). I think this could potentially tell us certain things. Probulous posted his reads on all the players in the game categorizing them by who he thought was town/neutral/mafia. While this does not make him seem any more scummy. My instinct on this is that a player who is mafia is categorized by him as being town and this cover would be useful to the mafia in some way. My other thought is that Tunkeg was pressuring someone that was mafia in a way that made him the biggest threat. He was pressuring Gonzaw and Cephiro and also did a little bit on Sheth. Since Cephiro was already cast under so much suspicion by Probulous I infer that there is a high chance that either Gonzaw or Sheth, or both are scum and am going to re-read their posts thoroughly. My initial instinct is that Sheth is the more likely candidate as he has literally posted zero analysis and has simply pressured or challenged peoples points rather than helping us weed out scum. You assume that mafia targeted Tunkeg for a completely different reason then I believe. You believe its because of his reads on people such as myself / gonzaw and cephiro. You feel like thats why it was him instead of Probulous. I think its just because up to this point Probulous was the most "town" feeling and mafia was worried there was a medic involved. Then you post another bad post here + Show Spoiler + On January 08 2012 22:40 Blurry wrote: Yes I would, and will. #Vote: Liquid'Sheth As to gonzaw's statement of me simply regurgitating information. For the most part that has been true but I've been going by my gut, which is not something you can post when convincing other people to take your side. I've been suspicious of Sheth from the start but don't have the analysis skills to back it up (I know that will read as scummy but bear with me) and write an informed post as to why. If I don't have the evidence to back up my feelings then there is no point in posting it. Whats up with this? Can you explain what your "gut" is and what its saying. As I think someone already brought up (Jitsu?) is that if you can't explain it in reasoning then its probably not a good reason. You then say "If I don't have evidence to back up my feelings there is no point in posting it". Regarding evidence against me. So you don't have any evidence and just a gut feeling on me and your willing to vote so quickly on this. Just this here should have everyone worried. Aren't you finding it suspicious that these lurkers are coming out of no where and willing to just throw their votes onto me because of a gut feeling? Blurry :From what I can see, Leaning Mafia strongly. 9. Gonzaw -- I don't have time to re-read all of your posts. I will do you and Probulous together hopefuly tonight before the end of the day and if I don't, well I'm sure others will. Based on just what I've seen of your posting you seemed like you were posting a lot of fluf and not really taking too many sides. Then you post a "Placeholder" vote on me even though your not convinced. You don't even wait on me to argue my side at all. You and Blurry seem to both be doing this to me. I'm not sure if this is a coincidence, that you both just have to go and blindly will kill me off, but its so bad. Why are you voting for me if you aren't convinced I'm scum. Just from what I've seen I'll say Town-Scum, but I really need to re-filter you more indepth, so this is it for now. Everyone putting your votes on me, please look into Cephiro, Blurry and Cats/Gonzaw . Those are my four scummiest reads, without knowing more about Xeris/Gretorp. Blurry doesn't even respond to him. Seems like a planned bus to me, just a way for Blurry to gain town cred once Sheth flips. And don't come and tell me this is WIFOM shit or something, if you guys believe Cats is scum too then this has to happen too. In the UG games, there's one thing I do to find scum. I see which players don't even talk to each other when not pressured to. I don't mean talk as in just quoting and saying uninteresting filler stuff. I also don't mean mentioning each other, whether to make them suspicious or defend themselves. I mean talk as in arguing with each other, pressuring each other, etc. I think this happened in the previous Newbie game too. Hell, there's a UG game where I found the entire scum team just by doing this, without any other analysis. I'm pretty convinced that works, even more considerably in a newbie game. It is WIFOM, but shit, it's WIFOM that works, just like the ones in the guides all over this place. If you don't think this holds, then there needs to be other highly incriminating/saving evidence towards it.. ##Vote: Blurry Fuck, I'm already like 2 hours reading the thread, responding and shit. Also, I don't like this Cat bandwagon. It just seems so easy to lynch him. But I'll give my thoughts on that when I come home, I'm way in a hurry right now Gonzaw gets angry that Cehpiro called him out for him voting up Sheth with no analysis, yet Gonzaw rebukes other players for doing the same thing. Gonzaw responds harshly saying that people shouldn't be suspicious of him just, because of some WIFOM Jitsu made. Gonzaw votes up Blurry for using his gut and WIFOM. Nothing substantial. Contradiction again. He also says he doesn't like the Cats bandwagon. Interesting thing to say in the least. + Show Spoiler + On January 11 2012 14:32 gonzaw wrote: Why would you assume that? How is it even a "sophisticated plan"? Shit, let's recap the "sophisticated plan": 1)Make a wishy-washy read on one of his scumbuddies 2)When his scumbuddy has a chance to be lynched, bus him 3)As for the reasons for doing it, just say that your previous wishy-washy read was a suspicion on him (1) Isn't even part of any "plan", it's just a regular scum behaviour of "not being sure" about your scumbuddies, in case you need to bus or defend them later on, and so you don't have to pressure them, talk to them, or have anything to do with them in the thread (2)Seems pretty straightforward, I don't need to explain to you why scum would bus each other when one has the chance of being lynched, right? (3)If this is "sophisticated" I'll eat my own ass. It's the easiest way for him to not make an effort in thinking up reasons to bus him. Actually it's stupid too, since eventually someone is bound to reread that and search for that "suspicion from the start" and figure out it's a bunch of fluff. .....what? You want me to "tell you a story"? Do I have to make wild speculations about "what they may have thought" or some shit? What's the point? I am not here to entertain you guys. I won't start my posts with cute images, or format my posts like a book or something, or "tell stories" or whatever you mean. If I do that I waste time doing something unnecessary. Also, what do you mean "where's the scum motivation"? Isn't "be wishy washy about your scumbuddy so you don't pay attention to him, then bus him to gain town cred" enough? Isn't all that sheeping and regurgitation to lynch a townie (cookie/tea) without actually making an effort enough? Isn't all that "I'll emulate how other players post", and "I'm following my gut" to strip away any responsability and pressure from him enough? I think I expanded enough. I already pointed out almost all communication between them (I may have left some bussing from Sheth out though, but all of that can be generalised with the single post I showed). So, what do I have to "expand"? Why can't you do that on your own? Sorry for the aggresiveness, but....really? Why are you so sure Blurry is town? Also, why don't you let him defend himself? You are acting like his babysitter or something, if he's pressured let him react to it goddammit! Your play has been very weird lately Prob, shit. This post is full of garbage. As other players have mentioned Blurry shouldn't have to be the only one to argue that he is town, others can argue it for him to avoid a mis-lynch. Mafia gains a clear advantage when no-body stands up for each other. Gonzaw is very aggressive and gives us some WIFOM against Blurry. Gonzaw is hypocritical here again, using WIFOM against Blurry, but when WIFOM is used against himself it can't be right. + Show Spoiler + On January 12 2012 07:28 gonzaw wrote: + Show Spoiler + On January 12 2012 06:12 Blurry wrote: The idea that me immediately voting for Sheth was somehow a mafia plan to make me innocent in the town's eyes is rather stupid. I am not a good player by any stretch of the imagination so why would he sacrifice himself to try and help make one of the weakest players in the game look more innocent. It was not clear that he was going to be lynched. May I remind you that the vote for him succeeded by just one vote. If I had been scum I would have either feigned inactivity and not voted, or perhaps voted for Cats who was already under a lot of suspicion at that point. Omg lol. So instead of defending yourself against every point of the case against you, you just decide to cling unto WIFOM? lol nice try + Show Spoiler + The idea that me immediately voting for Sheth was somehow a mafia plan to make me innocent in the town's eyes is rather stupid lol no it's not, ever heard of "bussing"? + Show Spoiler + I am not a good player by any stretch of the imagination so why would he sacrifice himself to try and help make one of the weakest players in the game look more innocent You mean, why would Sheth, a scum under A LOT of pressure, who was heading for a lynch, sacrifice 1 vote from his scumbuddy, and bus him so he would make his weak scumbuddy gain town cred so he can try to survive longer? Hmm, let me see, I can't find any reason at all! + Show Spoiler + It was not clear that he was going to be lynched. May I remind you that the vote for him succeeded by just one vote. If I had been scum I would have either feigned inactivity and not voted, or perhaps voted for Cats who was already under a lot of suspicion at that point Great, did Sheth tell you to point this out later if somebody suspected you? This is the shittiest WIFOM ever, just like all the WIFOM you've been pulling out throughout the whole game Here, let me point them out for you: + Show Spoiler + On January 04 2012 11:18 Blurry wrote: The thing to watch for initially is whether or not a role blocker reveals himself. I doubt a role blocker would do anything so early however as they have no idea who to target and successfully cause some harm. WIFOM + Show Spoiler + On January 07 2012 17:19 Blurry wrote: I've been trying to figure out why someone would target Tunkeg rather than someone like Probulous (posted the most analysis and was one of the most assertive players thus far). I think this could potentially tell us certain things. Probulous posted his reads on all the players in the game categorizing them by who he thought was town/neutral/mafia. While this does not make him seem any more scummy. My instinct on this is that a player who is mafia is categorized by him as being town and this cover would be useful to the mafia in some way. My other thought is that Tunkeg was pressuring someone that was mafia in a way that made him the biggest threat. He was pressuring Gonzaw and Cephiro and also did a little bit on Sheth. Since Cephiro was already cast under so much suspicion by Probulous I infer that there is a high chance that either Gonzaw or Sheth, or both are scum and am going to re-read their posts thoroughly. My initial instinct is that Sheth is the more likely candidate as he has literally posted zero analysis and has simply pressured or challenged peoples points rather than helping us weed out scum. HOLY SHIT ENORMOUS USELESS WIFOM + Show Spoiler + On January 11 2012 07:27 Blurry wrote: There is no way that both Gretorp and Xeris were scum because they were totally inactive and it is doubtful that they would have submitted their night actions. My guess with no evidence to back my claims is that its one of those two plus one of the players that has been more active. More WIFOM. + Show Spoiler + On January 12 2012 06:12 Blurry wrote: The idea that me immediately voting for Sheth was somehow a mafia plan to make me innocent in the town's eyes is rather stupid. I am not a good player by any stretch of the imagination so why would he sacrifice himself to try and help make one of the weakest players in the game look more innocent. It was not clear that he was going to be lynched. May I remind you that the vote for him succeeded by just one vote. If I had been scum I would have either feigned inactivity and not voted, or perhaps voted for Cats who was already under a lot of suspicion at that point. And here's the epitome of WIFOM too + Show Spoiler + I am not a good player by any stretch of the imagination so why would he sacrifice himself to try and help make one of the weakest players in the game look more innocent Thank you for reminding me of that. + Show Spoiler + On January 06 2012 00:53 Blurry wrote: Okay, my last post for the day: Staying on CM/Tea as I am still unsure about Cephiro. Other than that, I'm sorry I couldn't contribute more this first day as I am still new to this and am not sure what to look for in terms of reading players but by going over players posts I am getting a good idea and I'm sure my analysis quality will steadily improve over the course of the game. One thing that strikes me looking back at all this is CM voting for CatsinHats. If CM/Tea is indeed scum then I think this provides evidence towards cats not being scum as I dont think CM would have been that meta especially with the holes in his play he has already shown. This can't be assumed however so I would still be suspicious. + Show Spoiler + On January 05 2012 15:32 Blurry wrote: I posted in the same format as Cephiro because I'm new to this and I'm trying to pick up on how this game is played. Thus you will see me emulate some things that other players will do or how they format their analysis. This won't be the first time you will see this. Solid Candidates: Gretorp, Cookiemaker I would probably rather lynch Gretorp because he hasn't said anything To your last point: This is a newbie game, maybe its not obvious. I just want to make sure that people know to claim a RB. You are constantly undermining your own play, saying you are a "weak player"; that you'll "emulate some things other players will do", saying you are "new to this", saying you are "not sure what to look for in terms of reading players", and apologizing yoruself... This is the "newb card" played so straight it hurts.. Of course, you are a "weak player" so we can just ignore you, right? You haven't even responded to any of the other points I made. You are still ignoring me. You have Prob being your babysitter, and nobody's listening to me. You may just think that ignoring me and let town focus on Cats can get you off the hook, since you just have 1 vote on you. But you won't People, it's obvious Blurry is scum, change your vote to him NOW. I'm not sure Cats is scum yet, for a while he's actually contributing, being active, and at least he's fucking trying. We can deal with Cats later, Blurry is far a better lynch, since I'm almost sure he's scum. Blurry told the truth the whole time. He admitted he was a weak player. Gonzaw says Blurry is playing the "newb card". Blurry was a newb. Gonzaw was trying hard to goad people into voting up for Blurry based on nothing really. He also speaks up for Cats here again in a more subtle to way to avoid any suspicion. Just something to note. Then there is this Post. Gonzaw doesn't even really defend himself here. He just curses a lot and says "you are twisting my words, stop it". On January 13 2012 10:21 gonzaw wrote: Until nobody counterclaims I won't be sure, specially if nobody claims RB tomorrow. Actually, if there is no RB tomorrow, then you fake-clamiing right now is totally stupid if you were scum, since you would get caught. If there is a RB, then the real DT would counterclaim... Maybe if the DT is Paper/Cats, you could get a mislynch At least this makes me sure there is a RBer, if not this would be the most stupid fake-claim ever. Wait, maybe your scumbuddy could fake-claim RB... Still, if that happens we would have the 2 scums pegged down, so it still would be stupid. If you are the DT, then well, at least you claimed at the right time (right in the deadline). However, I find it weird that you didn't play like a "blue" instinctly plays, like I read on Ver's Guide. There is no reason to fake claim here. Probulous breadcrumbed in the beginning of the thread, if that isn't proof enough. Prob was spot on against Sheth. Gonzaw is pretty much the only person that against Prob right now. Gonz then posts this weird post above about WIFOM non-sense, something he is against. On January 13 2012 10:24 CatsnHats wrote: Basically you're saying, "You didn't play detective the way I wanted you too, because I'm mafia and it made it hard for me to be sure that you were a blue." Nail in the coffin. ##Vote: gonzaw @CatsnHats: On January 13 2012 09:56 CatsnHats wrote: I don't really know what to say right now... I just waiting for the night post. I have a lot to write, I'm just not posting it right now for timing reasons. I will say I think Gonzaw and Paperscraps are mafia (in case I get killed in a little bit). I'm more confident in Gonzaw than Paperscraps. You post that you think Gonzaw is looking better than me, why? Also, I would like to note that while Gonzaw has made you look bad Cats. Your recent posts have been good. Prob had good instincts and thought you were town. I understand we don't see eye to eye at the moment, but we do agree on Gonzaw. I think he should be the next lynch before we proceed. If we lynch Gonzaw, the next night kill will tell us a lot. @Cephiro: and bkrow: Who are your reads right now? Who do you think the last two scum are? @Everybody: I am doing my best to step up my game from here on out. I do not want to be the reason that town loses this game. | ||
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Paperscraps
United States639 Posts
I will admit that I am somewhat of an stand-still. Prob had more faith in Cats, but Gonzaw has stood up for Cats a bit to kind of neutralize that. I am definitely confused here. So right now that leaves Cephiro and Cats both on the same playing field in my eyes. We all need to be finding holes in each others posts. I have argued against Cats, so I am going to focus some attention on Cephiro to see what I can find out. @bkrow:Since we know that your intentions are for the town, we really need you to speak up and give us your reads on all of us. Your opinion is very important now. You are also a likely target for N4, so get to posting!! You have a lot of sway over Ceph, Cats and I. You have a lot of say over who of us is going to get lynched. | ||
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bkrow
Australia8532 Posts
Basically, my thoughts come down to this. We have the following list Paperscraps CatsnHats Cephiro Gonzaw From that above list 2 are scum and 2 are town. There was a considerable case mounted against Paper prior to Blurry's fuck up and i believe he most likely would have been lynched if not for the worst role claim in history. I have not forgotten about that, nor do i believe that it would be the wrong choice to lynch Paper. However, both Jitsu and Prob have suggested Gonz as a viable lynch target. His general posting attitude and demeanour is not very town like as it is very aggressive. The consolation is that this brings a lot of attention to his posts which is not ideal if he was mafia. Paper launched an offensive against Gonz; so if he is scum, it is likely that Gonz is not scum Cats launched an attack against Paper; so same logic as above I read through Ceph's filter and i honestly think the kid is a townie based on his posts; so now this just puts me in a position of Paper and Cats being scum, which i don't think is likely based on the above. I think lynching Paper is our best bet at the moment - the lynch on Blurry REALLY fucked us up; lynching Paper gives us a lot of useful information on Gonz and Cats. | ||
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bkrow
Australia8532 Posts
If he flips green.. we lose? lol The issue i have is that one of the above players could have just bussed a mafia buddy to throw us all off; but i doubt that much effort would have beeen put into an analytical post which has the chance of convincing the town on a lynch. Well.. thoughts? | ||
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Paperscraps
United States639 Posts
@Cephiro: Do you still feel the same way in the post below? Post everything you suspect of me. I would like to see some analysis on CatsnHats as well. On January 10 2012 10:30 Cephiro wrote: Do you think it could be possible that BOTH statements would be true? As in the last two scum would be Cats & Gonzaw? I haven't read through Gonzaw's filter yet, but I will check it and post my opinion in the morning. (3:30 AM, gonna sleep now.) Some notes on CatsnHats: On January 13 2012 10:24 CatsnHats wrote: Basically you're saying, "You didn't play detective the way I wanted you too, because I'm mafia and it made it hard for me to be sure that you were a blue." Here Cats is accusing gonzaw of being mafia? This is strange to me, because I think Gonzaw and Cats are mafia. On January 13 2012 10:42 CatsnHats wrote: EBWOP: I don't really think you are scum, Cephiro. You have to be included because you weren't confirmed by Prob, but you were the reason he checked Sheth, so you're town in my eyes. Lynch Gonzaw, then Paperscraps and we win! CatsnHats wants to lynch Gonzaw first. CatsnHats wrote: He hasn't really posted much since, trying to fly under the radar if you ask me. Him sheeping against Blurry makes him look pretty bad after the fact too. I don't have an official write up on Gonzaw yet, but I think we should lynch Paperscraps first because he is the safer of the two options in my eyes. That way we can extend the game another day and you/bkrow can make more reads on Gonzaw and me to make up your minds between the two of us. Then CatsnHats switches to me suddenly? Cephiro would agree that CatsnHats has been changing his mind all the time in this Post. This makes way more sense than bussing his mafia friend. If the lynch of Gonzaw did go through with Cats pretense on wanting to kill Gonzaw, then I would be a prime subject the following day and mafia could still win. I still need to think on this some more. On January 13 2012 10:09 CatsnHats wrote: Thanks Prob, you've been our MVP up until now. I knew you were DT because you said you HAD to lynch Sheth, even if you're arguments were irrational. I thought you had checked my N2 though, because you changed your opinion of me and I didn't think that was possible unless you had looked at me. Cats has been posting a bunch of filler posts about Probu being awesome and sucking up to him pretty much. Cats claims he "knew" that Prob was DT and that we "HAD" to lynch Sheth, but this is after the fact and doesn't mean anything. Cats is using Probu to dissuade others from thinking he is scum. How could you know something was true just because it was irrational? Makes no sense. On January 12 2012 09:53 CatsnHats wrote: Blurry that was an absolute bullshit play. I really hope you aren't a medic. ##Unvote: Paperscraps ##Vote: Blurry "I really hope you aren't a medic." Quite a gamble you are willing to take there. On January 12 2012 09:53 CatsnHats wrote: bkrow/Cephiro we HAVE to have a lynch today. We can deal with the consequences after the lynch. Vote Blurry! Hurry! Why did we need to have a lynch so badly? Cats says we can deal the consequences after the lynch, this give mafia +2 town kills. Suspcious... On January 12 2012 09:55 CatsnHats wrote: WHAT THE FUCK. 5 minutes left. Make a decision. We don't have time. Cats gets crazy here and is demanding a vote to be made. I think a townie would be more hesitant to vote off a medic, rather than let the mafia kill them. hmmmmm....still though lets look at Cephiro. Some notes on Cephiro: On January 04 2012 12:21 Cephiro wrote: Yeah, it's my first forum game ever. Haven't played this anywhere else either. I've read through quite a bunch of advanced games on different forums though, and I generally consider myself good at mindgames or understanding what people think / why they do something etc. So I'm really excited to see if it's correlates to success in here. Yeah, you heard right, watch out mafia! I am going to sleep now though. I will re-read the thread (especially the new posts) a few times once I wake up and will try to join in as much as I can. If you have a hard time of trying to find out who is scum, then please do the town a favor and at least try to find some most-likely-town reads, since even that will help us narrow down the possible lynch. I do agree that we could pressure vote lurkers/inactives later on in D1, hopefully forcing them to defend themselves and give us better reads. First off I just want to note that Cephiro claims to be good at mind games. I will assume that as truth in the following analysis. On January 13 2012 10:35 Cephiro wrote: The only thing why I'm wondering is that you are so sure on your read on Cats even without investigating him that you are leaving him out of the list of possible scum. I know I'm town, so if you are right, that would leave Paperscraps & Gonzaw. Which brings up a few interesting points.. I can see that being possible. However I'm not letting anyone off the hook tomorrow if I survive. (Except bkrow if you die tonight) You mean for not nailing anyone against the wall yesterday? Quite simple. I was planning on pressuring Cats even further before the lynch, since I was (and I am still thinking), that he is getting off the hook way too easily, when he hasn't even defended himself against my original case. He even admit he can't. I just can't stop thinking that Cats is not scum. He approved of my play earlier, and was talking about how I am so pro-town. But once he realized that doesn't get points with me, he moved on to you. And I think that is the only reason he is still alive. For managing to convince you. Unfortunately all the drama with Blurry's poorly timed roleclaim messed up that totally. Alright, so in light of this post. Either Cephiro has been trying to lynch Cats the whole game to divert suspicion from himself or he is right and Cats is scum. On January 10 2012 07:42 Cephiro wrote: Gretorp / Paperscraps = Null The only thing which I am a bit surprised of is that Paper in his first post considers Xeris / Blurry scummy, but doesn't mention AnxiousHippo or Cats. We'll see soon enough. Xeris / Kronhjort = Null / Slightly leaning towards scum. Xeris was pushing quite hard (relative to his level of activeness) for his townyness, and no-lynching. Nothing from Kronhjort yet, so my opinion on this could change relatively easily. Also as Probu pointed out (yeah, go on and call me for ghosting on someone that doesn't have anything new to talk about), Sheth's comments about him aren't making him look any better. AnxiousHippo / Bkrow = Slightly leaning towards scum AnxiousHippo, I really don't have much new stuff to offer on him. His early game looks like a newbie town trying to contribute, but closer to the end of D1, it becomes more and more useless. This is probably his worst post. (In my opinion). First he pushes Gretorp... after everyone else did it already, we don't really need everyone to do that. Especially not trying to make it look like you're the first one doing it. Then he makes an insanely bad case against me. (Okay, I'll give him credit for trying, but in my opinion most of those points are so poor... I can't believe he didn't find anything more on me since he clearly tried, especially after Probu's case.) After that, all we see is a promise of bandwagon analysis into disappearance. Not good. Bkrow has a hilarious start. With the arrow pointing mistake. He is at least trying to look like he is providing content, but in my opinion he isn't looking very townie so far: This is probably his best post. Questioning Cats's case, and providing his own point of view where we are likely to find scum. Note the bolded, I will get to it soon. Trying to focus attention on the other lurker, not providing analysis why he thinks Blurry is no more scum than Gretorp. You're allowed to have your own opinion, but please back it up with something. This slightly looks like trying to make up for the mistakes that Hippo did, to secure his own play further. (The first bolded part.) He talks about Xeris here which other people have already pointed at, but he keeps juggling "it could be or it could not be". Now he would like to hear more about Paperscraps (Gretorp's replacement), and FoS Xeris (The other lurker that is already under suspicion). He has only provided anything towards his c)-category, but nothing about the people that belonged to his a or b category. (Cats for example.) My current opinion on scum: AnxiousHippo(bkrow)/Xeris(Kronhjort) is one of the scum, and Cats is the other. Cephiro/Bkrow makes a good case against Cats here that he was hesistant to vote up Sheth for lynching. On January 11 2012 12:42 Cephiro wrote: I understand being open to every possibility, but WHAT THE HELL Probu? This is a very surprising change from you this quickly. I do agree that he has picked up on his play, but enough to be your new bestest buddy? I am not even going to be wtf at Cats, I'm going to look WTF at you. You ask him to provide a case on Blurry and/or question your analysis. He does NEITHER. Instead he makes a case against da Lurker. How hard is that? I'll give that it's the best thing he's TRIED so far, but you are giving up on him way too easily not providing enough reasoning. Or is there some reason why you are very sure that Sheth could have set him up? Come on ._. These 5 posts have been analysed all over, and now days later you are giving your opinion on them? I called you out for the fact that you had asked Gretorp to post, but then dropped it. Then you tried to pretend you hadn't forgot about it. And now you think it's scummy that he promised but dropped it? He got replaced for a reason. Why can't you be consistent?!?! I think you've been a dog in a leash for others this whole game. First Probu, then Sheth, now Probu... I approve you for making the continuing the case on Paperscraps, looks better than what you started on with Gretorp. What I don't like however is that you are totally skipping on some things that I've done, I'm not sure if you just haven't noticed or are you leaving it out on purpose to make me look worse. I hope it's the first. Okay, let's assume that Cats is not mafia. Are you that certain on yourself that you will find the rest of the mafia today? If we mislynch today, and the mafia gets a night-kill through, we're in MYLO tomorrow, assuming they will get the N4 night-kill through also. I don't like how easily you are happy to leave him today just because he actively participates and ... provides analysis to some extent I guess. AND STILL HE KEEPS CHANGING HIS GODDAMN MIND ALL THE TIME, HOW IS THAT HELPING US? Another reason why I don't like the idea of lynching someone else unless we are suddenly really sure: Cats has already claimed that he is not a blue. If there are blues in the game, it is possible that we hit a blue if we mislynch. IF Cats actually happens to be a townie, we at least haven't hit a possible blue. Remember what you said earlier. The first bolded is just as likely as the latter, but somehow you are suddenly very certain it's the last choice. You don't even seem to have checked up on Gonz. (I admit, I haven't posted anything on him yet either since I'm still re-reading his filter, trying to make sure I don't miss anything.) It's most likely that Gonz is town, but it doesn't hurt to double-check at this point does it? Just one question. Why have you been taking Probulous for granted this whole game? As it stands now, I would still like to see Cats lynched, unless someone provides me with a convincing case against someone else, or that I find something even more scummier than Cats myself. Call me out for still pushing for him if you want, but I've been doing it since N1 started. I think you've let him off too easily. I am open for the possibility I am wrong in Cats's case though, but at the moment I am finding it extremely unlikely, so until someone else provides me a better target: ##Vote: CatsnHats Cephiro with a pretty solid case against Cats: -Constant changing of his mind. -Admitting to not being a blue. -He is asked to provide a case on Blurry and/or question Probu's analysis. He does neither. (Note: He does so after the fact) Cats hasn't defended himself from Cephiro's post. Why do we keep letting Cats off so easily? I can't find any holes in Ceph's filters. Either he is a very devious mafia or solid townie. I am thinking the latter. Concerns: Why did Cats target gonzaw? I will admit that this make me suspicious of Cephiro, but the evidence is so stacked against Cats I just can't see it through. One thing to note is that Cephiro has called out gonzaw in his post here. What if Cats is town and really wanting to take out Gonzaw? Again, I don't really what to think. Is Cats trying to play us somehow here? Is Cats hostility towards me only because I had suspicions of him first? Is he just targeting me, because I targeted him? (OMGUS) What if we are being played by Cephiro? Unlikely... I have to admit I am bit confused and trust no one, but bkrow. Bkrow is against me at the moment which doesn't bode well. Hopefully, Ceph's post will help bkrow see the light in all of this. | ||
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Paperscraps
United States639 Posts
Lets look at some communication between my assumed mafia. gonzaw communicating to Cats: The majority of gonzaw's communication toward Cats has been helping Cats out On January 06 2012 11:55 gonzaw wrote: EBWOP: ....what? Okay, first things first: this is a GAME Even if you say you "suck" at it and make "town" pay or something, try and get better at it. Make it like a New Year's Resolution: I'll be good at TL mafia. You are actually making it worse for us this way. You will make us waste all of D2 because you want us to lynch you there. If you are town, we will not find any scum because of it. If you are town, and you act "scummy" and such, it would be better to misslynch you if you fight and defend yourself than lynch you just because you are a burden or something. In the first case we can get more info actually. If you are scum, then maybe you just don't like being under so much pressure, so you acted like you "surrendered", and maybe even ask for a replacement because you are coming under too much fire. Whatever the case (if you are town or scum)., you are not doing us any favour, and you are not doing any favours to yourself, so regain yourself goddammit! Telling his scum buddy to never give up! Never surrender! On January 12 2012 07:28 gonzaw wrote: + Show Spoiler + On January 12 2012 06:12 Blurry wrote: The idea that me immediately voting for Sheth was somehow a mafia plan to make me innocent in the town's eyes is rather stupid. I am not a good player by any stretch of the imagination so why would he sacrifice himself to try and help make one of the weakest players in the game look more innocent. It was not clear that he was going to be lynched. May I remind you that the vote for him succeeded by just one vote. If I had been scum I would have either feigned inactivity and not voted, or perhaps voted for Cats who was already under a lot of suspicion at that point. Omg lol. So instead of defending yourself against every point of the case against you, you just decide to cling unto WIFOM? lol nice try + Show Spoiler + The idea that me immediately voting for Sheth was somehow a mafia plan to make me innocent in the town's eyes is rather stupid lol no it's not, ever heard of "bussing"? + Show Spoiler + I am not a good player by any stretch of the imagination so why would he sacrifice himself to try and help make one of the weakest players in the game look more innocent You mean, why would Sheth, a scum under A LOT of pressure, who was heading for a lynch, sacrifice 1 vote from his scumbuddy, and bus him so he would make his weak scumbuddy gain town cred so he can try to survive longer? Hmm, let me see, I can't find any reason at all! + Show Spoiler + It was not clear that he was going to be lynched. May I remind you that the vote for him succeeded by just one vote. If I had been scum I would have either feigned inactivity and not voted, or perhaps voted for Cats who was already under a lot of suspicion at that point Great, did Sheth tell you to point this out later if somebody suspected you? This is the shittiest WIFOM ever, just like all the WIFOM you've been pulling out throughout the whole game Here, let me point them out for you: + Show Spoiler + On January 04 2012 11:18 Blurry wrote: The thing to watch for initially is whether or not a role blocker reveals himself. I doubt a role blocker would do anything so early however as they have no idea who to target and successfully cause some harm. WIFOM + Show Spoiler + On January 07 2012 17:19 Blurry wrote: I've been trying to figure out why someone would target Tunkeg rather than someone like Probulous (posted the most analysis and was one of the most assertive players thus far). I think this could potentially tell us certain things. Probulous posted his reads on all the players in the game categorizing them by who he thought was town/neutral/mafia. While this does not make him seem any more scummy. My instinct on this is that a player who is mafia is categorized by him as being town and this cover would be useful to the mafia in some way. My other thought is that Tunkeg was pressuring someone that was mafia in a way that made him the biggest threat. He was pressuring Gonzaw and Cephiro and also did a little bit on Sheth. Since Cephiro was already cast under so much suspicion by Probulous I infer that there is a high chance that either Gonzaw or Sheth, or both are scum and am going to re-read their posts thoroughly. My initial instinct is that Sheth is the more likely candidate as he has literally posted zero analysis and has simply pressured or challenged peoples points rather than helping us weed out scum. HOLY SHIT ENORMOUS USELESS WIFOM + Show Spoiler + On January 11 2012 07:27 Blurry wrote: There is no way that both Gretorp and Xeris were scum because they were totally inactive and it is doubtful that they would have submitted their night actions. My guess with no evidence to back my claims is that its one of those two plus one of the players that has been more active. More WIFOM. + Show Spoiler + On January 12 2012 06:12 Blurry wrote: The idea that me immediately voting for Sheth was somehow a mafia plan to make me innocent in the town's eyes is rather stupid. I am not a good player by any stretch of the imagination so why would he sacrifice himself to try and help make one of the weakest players in the game look more innocent. It was not clear that he was going to be lynched. May I remind you that the vote for him succeeded by just one vote. If I had been scum I would have either feigned inactivity and not voted, or perhaps voted for Cats who was already under a lot of suspicion at that point. And here's the epitome of WIFOM too + Show Spoiler + I am not a good player by any stretch of the imagination so why would he sacrifice himself to try and help make one of the weakest players in the game look more innocent Thank you for reminding me of that. + Show Spoiler + On January 06 2012 00:53 Blurry wrote: Okay, my last post for the day: Staying on CM/Tea as I am still unsure about Cephiro. Other than that, I'm sorry I couldn't contribute more this first day as I am still new to this and am not sure what to look for in terms of reading players but by going over players posts I am getting a good idea and I'm sure my analysis quality will steadily improve over the course of the game. One thing that strikes me looking back at all this is CM voting for CatsinHats. If CM/Tea is indeed scum then I think this provides evidence towards cats not being scum as I dont think CM would have been that meta especially with the holes in his play he has already shown. This can't be assumed however so I would still be suspicious. + Show Spoiler + On January 05 2012 15:32 Blurry wrote: I posted in the same format as Cephiro because I'm new to this and I'm trying to pick up on how this game is played. Thus you will see me emulate some things that other players will do or how they format their analysis. This won't be the first time you will see this. Solid Candidates: Gretorp, Cookiemaker I would probably rather lynch Gretorp because he hasn't said anything To your last point: This is a newbie game, maybe its not obvious. I just want to make sure that people know to claim a RB. You are constantly undermining your own play, saying you are a "weak player"; that you'll "emulate some things other players will do", saying you are "new to this", saying you are "not sure what to look for in terms of reading players", and apologizing yoruself... This is the "newb card" played so straight it hurts.. Of course, you are a "weak player" so we can just ignore you, right? You haven't even responded to any of the other points I made. You are still ignoring me. You have Prob being your babysitter, and nobody's listening to me. You may just think that ignoring me and let town focus on Cats can get you off the hook, since you just have 1 vote on you. But you won't People, it's obvious Blurry is scum, change your vote to him NOW. I'm not sure Cats is scum yet, for a while he's actually contributing, being active, and at least he's fucking trying. We can deal with Cats later, Blurry is far a better lynch, since I'm almost sure he's scum. Here again he defends Cats and throws Blurry under the bus. In gonzaw's post(long post) regarding my change in stance on Blurry he again tries to shift the blame away from Cats to Blurry. On January 13 2012 10:28 gonzaw wrote: No I'm fucking not, I'm saying that's a reason why I'm not 100% sure on his claim Obvious retort. On January 13 2012 10:14 gonzaw wrote: I get pissed when people say stupid stuff, what can I do? Thank you for your sheeping! "All his posts are just little incredulous statements" "Gonzaw never posts anything of substance" You better back that up, I'm expecting your response if both of us are alive tonight. Hell, even if I die you should post that response too Now Gonzaw and Cats realize they need to make some jibs at each other to make it seem like they aren't working together Gonzaw replies oddly compared to past behaviour here. Usually if you post anything against Gonzaw he will jump down your throat and curse like crazy. Here he says in a manner way against his scum buddy to simple provide proof of his accusations. No caps, no curse words. Interesting... The lines at the end crack me up, because he knows that he isn't going to die to a night kill. On January 13 2012 10:46 gonzaw wrote: Fuck. Okay people, we need to get scum today no matter what. I'm being unsure at the moment though. Although now that we have less players, I'm pretty sure Paper is scum. Cats, I want your response. I'll check Cephiro's fliter too, everybody's been going about how he's "confirmed town", by Prob and others, and that is dangerous. Filler post. Telling Cats he wants him to provide some analysis against him or people are going to figure out they are in cahoots. Cats communicating to gonzaw: Cats communication toward gonzaw is pretty limited in the beginning of the game. On January 05 2012 05:37 CatsnHats wrote: @gonzaw I haven't voted for Gretorp because I thought we weren't supposed to vote until near the end of D1. Throwing a vote out with so many hours left to use for reads isn't very smart. Plus I was waiting for his response, as well as the first posts of Xeris and the return of Blurry, who seems to have fallen off the face of the Earth. On January 06 2012 10:36 CatsnHats wrote: @Gonzaw You're right, that quote is damning along with the rest of his contradictions. He'll definitely have some explaining to do, but I don't know how we take this any further without Xeris answering the town's concerns. On January 07 2012 12:59 CatsnHats wrote: In regard to my martyr post, I'll admit that I felt pretty defeated when I was writing it, but then I realized that I could use your reactions as fodder for evidence and as a way of generating discussion, so I lurked and waited. I was pretty disappointed for the most part, a lot of "Don't give up for the town's sake" responses that came from the players with really town-y reads already (Prob, Gonzaw, Tunkeg), and this was meant to find scum, not confirm town. But then AnxiousHippo posted thank goodness, something I could make a read on. Here he leaning towards gonzaw being townish. On January 08 2012 09:16 CatsnHats wrote: It's all we can do right now. It's been at least 48 hours since either of them has posted. Their inactivity is such a handicap for us because we've made all the reads we can until they respond, which leaves the rest of us to point the finger at each other just because we're (Sheth, Gonz, Prob, Jitsu, Myself, Tunk until he was killed) the only ones that are talking. They're either mafia, shitty/scummy town players, or don't play on playing this game at all. At this point I'm kinda expecting them to be mod-killed. Filler On January 08 2012 11:58 CatsnHats wrote: @Sheth you're exactly right. I'm ghosting on Prob's analysis of you. Gonzaw ghosted on it too and has already put a placeholder vote on you. I REALLY don't like that. He says that your words in your defense could have an effect on changing his mind, but that he won't be around to see it. WHAT IS THAT? This is a really important time in this game. We really need a lynch on mafia. That doesn't sit well with me. Admitting to sheeping against Sheth, along with guess who? gonzaw! On January 09 2012 07:16 CatsnHats wrote: Admission of bandwaggoning. You can't claim you were suspicious of him if you didn't post anything. That statement means nothing except "I'm sheeping Prob's content." More agreement with gonzaw. On January 09 2012 13:31 CatsnHats wrote: Probulous I agree Xeris>Gretorp in terms of scumminess out of the lurkers. I've stated my suspicion of Blurry a couple of times too, he hasn't been helping himself lately. If I had to pick 3 for the 2 spots remaining it would be Blurry, AH/Bkrow, and Xeris. I'll give Bkrow some time to prove himself though. Also, Gonzaw is null for me right now. The way he placeholder voted Sheth (even if he was mafia) didn't sit well with me. I need to recheck the filter to confirm. Gonzaw is now null On January 09 2012 13:46 CatsnHats wrote: Alright I rechecked Gonz's filter. Other than the bullshit back and forth between him and Tunkeg (poor tunk  ), he's played very pro-town up to this point. He's really been on Blurry and Xeris, which I obviously like. And sure he ghosted your Sheth read, but I've been much more guilty of that offence so I can't hold it against him. Gonzaw is now very pro-town. On January 11 2012 08:00 CatsnHats wrote: Thanks Prob. And that is a really hard question. I wouldn't be surprised when Xeris/Kronhjort gets mod-killed if he flips red. But that is just wishful thinking because there really isn't any info to go on for him/them. AnxiousHippo's play was suspicious but bkrow has played much much better. That leaves Cephiro, Gonzaw, and Blurry (you and I are town). I'd say the 3rd mafia is between Cephiro, Xeris/Krohnjort, and Gonzaw. Hopefully it's Xeris and we can win this game in one more day!!! Now Gonzaw is suddenly a suspect with Cephiro On January 12 2012 09:35 CatsnHats wrote: Gonzaw is you keep you vote on him that would be a guaranteed no-lynch (Xeris is MIA). That's 7 people. We technically need 5. 2 are on me, 2 are on Paperscraps. We have to lynch somebody. Blurry can wait for tomorrow/tonight. Filler On January 13 2012 09:56 CatsnHats wrote: I don't really know what to say right now... I just waiting for the night post. I have a lot to write, I'm just not posting it right now for timing reasons. I will say I think Gonzaw and Paperscraps are mafia (in case I get killed in a little bit). I'm more confident in Gonzaw than Paperscraps. Now and interesting turn. He thinks gonzaw>paperscraps in terms of scum. No analysis though as of yet. On January 13 2012 10:02 CatsnHats wrote: Gonzaw never posts anything of substance. Just look at his defense post above. If you even FOS him a little bit, he goes into WTF fuck fuck fuck are you kidding me? mode. All of his post are just little incredulous statements that mean nothing followed by a question mark. Obvious filler information. On January 13 2012 10:24 CatsnHats wrote: Basically you're saying, "You didn't play detective the way I wanted you too, because I'm mafia and it made it hard for me to be sure that you were a blue." Not too sure what is going on here. I agree with Cats on this. Cats bussing his mafia buddy? On January 13 2012 10:31 CatsnHats wrote: GG Probulous. Brilliant, brilliant play my friend. Ceph, bkrow, we gotta get Gonzaw. Back to lynching gonzaw. On January 13 2012 10:42 CatsnHats wrote: EBWOP: I don't really think you are scum, Cephiro. You have to be included because you weren't confirmed by Prob, but you were the reason he checked Sheth, so you're town in my eyes. Lynch Gonzaw, then Paperscraps and we win! Still on lynching gonzaw, still no analysis. On January 13 2012 11:11 CatsnHats wrote: He hasn't really posted much since, trying to fly under the radar if you ask me. Him sheeping against Blurry makes him look pretty bad after the fact too. I don't have an official write up on Gonzaw yet, but I think we should lynch Paperscraps first because he is the safer of the two options in my eyes. That way we can extend the game another day and you/bkrow can make more reads on Gonzaw and me to make up your minds between the two of us. Sudden change of heart to me. Still no analysis on gonzaw. Honestly I don't know how I went from being less scummy than gonzaw to more with almost no explanation. This is the constant change of play we have seen all game from Cats. For CatsnHats: Gonz goes from (slight town) to (null) to (very-pro town) to (suspicious) to (scum). Very minimal reasoning for all of these assertions. For Gonzaw: Cats goes from....oh wait he never commits to any real opinion of Cats. Interesting.... Conclusion: CatsnHats and gonzaw have provided very little against each other throughout the game. They didn't communicate very heavily in the beginning. Gonzaw has been definitely helping Cats more than trying to find out that he is scum, something in which gonzaw prides himself on I might add. On January 07 2012 09:11 gonzaw wrote: I try to pick up inconsistencies and odd behaviour from anyone I can, that's how I catch scum. .... In the UG games, there's one thing I do to find scum. I see which players don't even talk to each other when not pressured to. I don't mean talk as in just quoting and saying uninteresting filler stuff. I also don't mean mentioning each other, whether to make them suspicious or defend themselves. I mean talk as in arguing with each other, pressuring each other, etc. I think this happened in the previous Newbie game too. Cats inconsistent play doesn't strike gonzaw as odd? By gonzaw's logic, Cats and gonzaw's minimal and evasive communication should be something to note then. Cats is all over the place with accusations and changes of heart. Thus, CatsnHats and Gonzaw are mafia scum. BOOM! Goes the dynamite! | ||
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CatsnHats
United States199 Posts
Your argument makes me shake my head because you came into the game late and I can almost guarantee that you only read my filter, not the posts from other people that surround mine. You say this: "Cats has been posting a bunch of filler posts about Probu being awesome and sucking up to him pretty much. Cats claims he "knew" that Prob was DT and that we "HAD" to lynch Sheth, but this is after the fact and doesn't mean anything. Cats is using Probu to dissuade others from thinking he is scum." On January 13 2012 10:09 CatsnHats wrote: Thanks Prob, you've been our MVP up until now. I knew you were DT because you said you HAD to lynch Sheth, even if you're arguments were irrational. I thought you had checked my N2 though, because you changed your opinion of me and I didn't think that was possible unless you had looked at me. It's not sucking up because I said it when we all thought Probulous was going to die (himself included). This was like a goodbye post. For the record, Probulous is/was awesome. If we manage to win this, it will be because of him. That being said, I don't even think you read my post correctly. I didn't say "we HAD to lynch Sheth." I said Probulous HAD to lynch Sheth, even if he had to use irrational arguments to convince people. Why did I say that? Because I was quoting what Probulous said right here: On January 09 2012 10:09 Probulous wrote: @Sheth, I hope that wasn't too bad! I know some of my arguments weren't exactly rational but I had to get you lynched. Maybe chat after the game. Thanks for playing! Hmmmm... why would someone push so hard to get a person lynched, even using irrational arguments? Because they are the DT. Come on Paperscraps, read the thread, not just filters. For CatsnHats: Gonz goes from (slight town) to (null) to (very-pro town) to (suspicious) to (scum). Very minimal reasoning for all of these assertions. As for my change of opinion on Gonzaw, why is that not allowed? Did you check the time stamps on those posts? Slight-town: 7th Null: 9th Very-pro town: 9th (I had just checked his filter, and said he "played very pro town up to that point." That doesn't mean I am certain he is town. You even agreed he had because of the way he bussed Sheth. This is a town read in my eyes, but I'll leave it as very pro town for the sake of argument.) Suspicious: 11th Scum: 13th That is 2 days in between most of those posts. 2 days is ALOT of posts and opportunities to make reads, especially for someone like Gonzaw who hasn't made a glaring mistake to completely change town sentiment on him. The reason I kept changing was his relentless aggression and cursing in his defense of himself. It kept throwing me off. I think he is mafia now though, and if we lynch him and he flips red, it shouldn't matter that I thought he was town in the early game, when reads are so difficult to make. You are also getting on to me for my posting before the lynch and nightkill posts. You say they are filler. They may look like that now, but the hour before each of those events was a flurry of posting. If you think I'm scum because I posted a lot during the most stressful period of the game to date, then so be it. | ||
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CatsnHats
United States199 Posts
On January 13 2012 17:12 bkrow wrote: I.e. if Paper flips red then we can assume Cats and Gonz are likely green and Ceph is the remaining scum; If he flips green.. we lose? lol The issue i have is that one of the above players could have just bussed a mafia buddy to throw us all off; but i doubt that much effort would have beeen put into an analytical post which has the chance of convincing the town on a lynch. Well.. thoughts? Why does Paper flipping red mean Gonz is green and Ceph is red? You said in the post before it that Ceph is a townie. I think Paper is bussing Gonz to save himself the next day and vice versa. | ||
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Paperscraps
United States639 Posts
On January 14 2012 02:13 CatsnHats wrote: Paperscraps, you seem to think that it is important what order I think we should lynch you and Gonzaw. I did flip-flop from Gonzaw to you 1st, but it doesn't really matter either way. If you want to lynch your scumbuddy Gonzaw first, then by all means I'll be down to do it. You're both scum in my eyes. This is an obvious deflection of attention from Cats' own self again. He doesn't provide a case against Gonzaw. Your argument makes me shake my head because you came into the game late and I can almost guarantee that you only read my filter, not the posts from other people that surround mine. So reading a filter is a bad thing? To answer your question, I did read mostly through your filter, but important posts I read through the thread to get the general context. What is your point here? You say this: (Paperscraps says this, I moved this line for clarificiation of my point above. "Cats has been posting a bunch of filler posts about Probu being awesome and sucking up to him pretty much. Cats claims he "knew" that Prob was DT and that we "HAD" to lynch Sheth, but this is after the fact and doesn't mean anything. Cats is using Probu to dissuade others from thinking he is scum." It's not sucking up because I said it when we all thought Probulous was going to die (himself included). This was like a goodbye post. For the record, Probulous is/was awesome. If we manage to win this, it will be because of him. That being said, I don't even think you read my post correctly. I didn't say "we HAD to lynch Sheth." I said Probulous HAD to lynch Sheth, even if he had to use irrational arguments to convince people. Why did I say that? Because I was quoting what Probulous said right here: I didn't say that "you HAD to lynch Sheth". I said that it was impossible to prove that you knew these things at the time they came up. It is a goodbye post, but it doesn't bring anything useful to the table. Filler is filler. Hmmmm... why would someone push so hard to get a person lynched, even using irrational arguments? Because they are the DT. Come on Paperscraps, read the thread, not just filters. Thanks for clarifying/justifying your thinking here, this is your first solid point in an otherwise useless post. As for my change of opinion on Gonzaw, why is that not allowed? Did you check the time stamps on those posts? Slight-town: 7th Null: 9th Very-pro town: 9th (I had just checked his filter, and said he "played very pro town up to that point." That doesn't mean I am certain he is town. You even agreed he had because of the way he bussed Sheth. This is a town read in my eyes, but I'll leave it as very pro town for the sake of argument.) Suspicious: 11th Scum: 13th I was just stating the stance communication between gonzaw and you. I will let others take away from that what they wish. That is 2 days in between most of those posts. 2 days is ALOT of posts and opportunities to make reads, especially for someone like Gonzaw who hasn't made a glaring mistake to completely change town sentiment on him. The reason I kept changing was his relentless aggression and cursing in his defense of himself. It kept throwing me off. I think he is mafia now though, and if we lynch him and he flips red, it shouldn't matter that I thought he was town in the early game, when reads are so difficult to make. Alright this is your second solid point. Vote up gonzaw then. You are also getting on to me for my posting before the lynch and nightkill posts. You say they are filler. They may look like that now, but the hour before each of those events was a flurry of posting. If you think I'm scum because I posted a lot during the most stressful period of the game to date, then so be it. This is a pretty blatant admission to being scum. Thanks for making so clear now. Stress cause people to do weird things. Like post rapidly perhaps or out of character. On January 14 2012 02:19 CatsnHats wrote: Why does Paper flipping red mean Gonz is green and Ceph is red? You said in the post before it that Ceph is a townie. I think Paper is bussing Gonz to save himself the next day and vice versa. Just note Cats is using the same argument here against me and that I accuse him of. OMGUS He doesn't provide any analysis to back it up. My responses are bolded. Don't give up the pressure on Cats town! He hasn't provided any analysis. He said he would make a post about gonzaw, where is it? We have him grasping at straws. @bkrow: I am also curious about your reasoning, that if I flipped red that would make Cephiro scum? please clarify this. @Cephiro: Looking forward to your actual analysis. Not like this mostly filler post by Cats. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On January 13 2012 11:11 CatsnHats wrote:He hasn't really posted much since, trying to fly under the radar if you ask me. Him sheeping against Blurry makes him look pretty bad after the fact too. I don't have an official write up on Gonzaw yet, but I think we should lynch Paperscraps first because he is the safer of the two options in my eyes. That way we can extend the game another day and you/bkrow can make more reads on Gonzaw and me to make up your minds between the two of us. What? Are you kidding me? You are just sheeping Prob again? On January 14 2012 02:13 CatsnHats wrote: That is 2 days in between most of those posts. 2 days is ALOT of posts and opportunities to make reads, especially for someone like Gonzaw who hasn't made a glaring mistake to completely change town sentiment on him. The reason I kept changing was his relentless aggression and cursing in his defense of himself. It kept throwing me off. I think he is mafia now though, and if we lynch him and he flips red, it shouldn't matter that I thought he was town in the early game, when reads are so difficult to make. You are also getting on to me for my posting before the lynch and nightkill posts. You say they are filler. They may look like that now, but the hour before each of those events was a flurry of posting. If you think I'm scum because I posted a lot during the most stressful period of the game to date, then so be it. On January 13 2012 10:02 CatsnHats wrote: Gonzaw never posts anything of substance. Just look at his defense post above. If you even FOS him a little bit, he goes into WTF fuck fuck fuck are you kidding me? mode. All of his post are just little incredulous statements that mean nothing followed by a question mark. Oh right, that was the reason /sarcasm You didn't even respond to that post I made. Good job trying to get everybody to ignore that, but I won't. And you know why I'm so angry at Prob's case? Because it's full of WIFOM, nitpicking of wording, logical fallacies, strawman and confirmation bias it's not funny!!! Let's see Prob's "thought process" here: -Okay, I'm DT, and I checked BK and came back town, therefore he's town I assume Cats and Cephiro are town. Therefore gonz and Paper are scum. Q.E.D......wait shit, I have to make a case against him now...hmmm what to do? Oh, I'll just quote every post of his and "tell a story" about how he posted from a mafia perspective, that will work. That's fucking confirmation bias, which makes all of his case fucking wrong. You know why? Because I'm town. Now why would that be possible? Because he fucked up by assuming both of you (Ceph and Cats) were town. Also, you are indeed sheeping Prob, and have been doing it since the beginning of the game. Last day I also agreed with Prob that your game was improving, you were active and such. But no, last night your game has gone to worse so bad it's not funny. Your blatant sheeping with Prob against someone you weren't suspicious of before using a shitty case, makes you look SO bad, I'm actually thinking you are scum too. Also, now that you think Prob is so "awesome" and has "awesome reads", let me tell you something about Prob: How many "scum reads" did he make before mine? 4: Cats, Ceph, Cookie and Sheth From Prob's POV (where he assumes both Cats and Ceph are town), then that means he got 3 out of 4 reads absolutely wrong! But "well" you say, "at least he got the Sheth read right , right?" Yeah, but why was that? Oh yeah, HE GOT A FUCKING SCUM CHECK FROM SHETH If Prob wasn't a DT, I'm sure he would have still thought Sheth was "null" and would have never made that case against him. Then Prob makes useless assumptions, that both of you and Ceph are town. WHEN WE ARE AT FUCKING LYLO. I fucking told him there are no confirmed townies (well, apart from BK at least), and he was so stubborn that he said "oh, you need to take some risks and find out who's town to weed out scum" or some shit. Guess what? That risk will lose you the game because everybody is blatantly sheeping you! Thank you Prob! For fucks sake, everybody thinks Prob's game is "so good", when it was actually shit. Remember, HE GOT OUR FUCKING MEDIC LYNCHED. AND YOU STILL SHEEP HIM. WITHOUT ANY OTHER REASONS. Wait.... Nobody claimed RBed? ??? what? Omg this is so fucking stupid lol When Blurry flipped, SCUM KNEW THERE WAS A DT. And they didn't use their RB ability to try and block him? Are you kidding me? Scum must be so stupid, hahaa Maybe they even forgot they had a RBer lol On January 13 2012 16:06 Paperscraps wrote:I agree that this was all speculation, I will leave out wishy washy remarks in the future. Right, so leaving them out in the future justifies you using them before. /sarcasm I was thinking that Cats was much more probable than Blurry first off. After reading through Blurry's filter, he just seemed more inexperienced and more town. Probulous also thinking Blurry being town weighed a lot with me, because probulous had good reads and analysis thus far. Well, what a coincidence, you are sheeping Prob too. I should have made it clear that the general census of the town leaning towards Blurry being innocent was swaying what I was thinking about him. I kept linking Blurry with Sheth. Blurry somewhat called Sheth out early on, but never followed up later. This was probably the main reason that I thought Blurry was scum. Prob and the rest of town convinced me otherwise. Even Cats started to convince me that Blurry was town. ?? I should have made it clear that the general census of the town leaning towards Blurry being innocent was swaying what I was thinking about him lol "Town was thinking that Blurry was town, therefore I should change my views against him because if I'm still suspicious of him I will look bad" I was thinking that Cats is mafia, so if Blurry voted up Cats then that would mean that Blurry would indeed be town. So you relied your analysis on Blurry on WIFOM? Are you fucking kidding me? Not just because of that, but also in general the town was swaying more towards Blurry being town. Blurry made a decent case against Cats. I didn't forget about Blurry being scum, but rather Blurry was lower on my list. I was thinking Cats would be a safer bet. Again you are using the same "I was sheeping town" response? You said "Even Cats started to convince me that Blurry was town", but you said "I didn't forget about Blurry being scum"? What? He was on you "scum list" (albeit lower) but you were beginning to think he was town? The constant change of opinions is due to getting caught up with the game, re-reading peoples filters and the general feeling of the town. Thinking he was Cats' scum buddy, was just hypothetical. I didn't ignore your case against Blurry. I just didn't find it very strong. I think the fact that Sheth and Blurry didn't talk much was due to Blurry being inexperienced plain and simple. I don't know why I have to mention other peoples arguments against people, when I make my own. That is unreasonable. Right, why would you even address an incriminating case against Blurry when you were thinking he was scum? Oh yeah I know, so you could continue sheeping town and not look bad. It is not so much that I am assuming people are town, but rather that I thought Cats and you were more probable to be scum than others at the time in such a situation. You forgot to say that "we were more probable" when you blatantly said who would be scum when Prob died. Pretty harsh thing to say. Making a case for someone being town is just as effective as making a case for someone being scum. Scum are the people that don't want others to know who town are. Are you kidding me? Are you really accusing me by defending Cookie's actions? Gonzaw then proceeds to vote up CM. He doesn't provide any real evidence against CM. ?? Lol you didn't even bother reading my filter. I don't have to give a detailed summary of why I think someone is scum dammit! I already pressured Cookie, found his behaviour scummy, saw as he didn't respond and thought that was the best option. You could have known that if you had read my filter Gonzaws sticks with his vendetta against CM(AKCT), with no real evidence. Thank you for ignoring my response to AKCT too! Gonzaw is trying to cast suspicion on to Blurry. He knows that the mafia isn't going to use their role blocker, so that the town is at a disadvantage. This very reasoning lead us to the mis-lynch of Blurry. Oh the irony What? I was pressuring him because do you know how easy is for scum to say "Oh, if someone is RBed they should claim" "Oh, if you are a vet and you were hit you should claim" and dwell on that so they appear like they are contributing? This is the same thing Sheth did. He gave a pep talk to Cats to not throw the game. You mean the same thing Prob, your magestical messiah did. Also, do you think it was wrong for me to do that? You are just desperately going through my filter taking whatever you can to paint me suspicious. But of course, what else can you do? From your "POV" I HAVE to be scum, right? Gonzaw claims that Blurry's reasons for voting up CM(AKCT) are bad. Yet, Gonzaw claims that Blurry's reason were part of the reasons why he voted up CM(AKCT). Sounds like a contradiction to me. HAHAHA HAHAHAHA OMG, this is so fucking terrible it's funny. Way to use a strawman buddy. lol 1-For previous reasons of certain players That fucking means that the player that voted for CM/AKCT had previous reasons, not that the reasons of those players were the same as mine. Really, there is no way that could be misunderstood. Lol, but good try, scum using strawmans confuses other townies from making good reads, good try indeed. Then, Gonzaw sheeps/bandwagons(whatever you want to call it) with Prob in the lynching of Sheth. He doesn't provide any analysis of Sheth and says he had a null reason of him up until this point. Of course we know now that Prob knew for a fact that Sheth was mafia, but at the time no one knew this. Then he just disappears and leaves his scum buddy to die, so he doesn't have to provide any reasoning to his vote. Gonzaw gets angry that Cehpiro called him out for him voting up Sheth with no analysis, yet Gonzaw rebukes other players for doing the same thing. Gonzaw responds harshly saying that people shouldn't be suspicious of him just, because of some WIFOM Jitsu made Omg, you are still dwelling on that? IT WAS ALREADY FUCKING ADDRESSED IF YOU HAD READ MY FILTER AND THE THREAD YOU WOULD HAVE KNOWN. Let me repeat it for you if you don't remember: I was away from town, I had no fucking internet access What? Are you saying I lied? Do you want me to send fucking pictures and witness reports (from my family) to prove you wrong? Because I can. Gonzaw votes up Blurry for using his gut and WIFOM. Nothing substantial. Contradiction again. Omg, more "misinterpretation" DID YOU SEE THE PART WHERE I FOUND BLURRY WAS LYING? ARE YOU IGNORING THAT ON PURPOSE? ARE YOU IGNORING ALL THE OTHER REASONS I STATED ON N1? This post is full of garbage. As other players have mentioned Blurry shouldn't have to be the only one to argue that he is town, others can argue it for him to avoid a mis-lynch. Mafia gains a clear advantage when no-body stands up for each other. Gonzaw is very aggressive and gives us some WIFOM against Blurry. Gonzaw is hypocritical here again, using WIFOM against Blurry, but when WIFOM is used against himself it can't be right. Are you kidding me? You are saying that a townie shouldn't defend himself? If Blurry was scum, do you know how easy it would be for him to fucking forget about the game and let other townies defend him? Are you seriously implying that just to make me suspicious? Blurry told the truth the whole time. He admitted he was a weak player. Gonzaw says Blurry is playing the "newb card". Blurry was a newb. Gonzaw was trying hard to goad people into voting up for Blurry based on nothing really. Right, because we knew that he was "telling the truth the whole time" at that point. This is what you are doing: -Gonzaw thought Blurry was scum because of X -Blurry was X because he was town -Therefore, gonzaw knew that Blurry was X because he was town, and therefore is scum lol try harder. You are sinking yourself deeper and deeper. You are implying that when we scumhunt in the future, we don't take into account the "I'm a newb" responses, you are implying that we shouldn't let players defend themselves, and you are implying that we shouldn't pressure other players by the obvious statements they say. Gonzaw doesn't even really defend himself here. He just curses a lot and says "you are twisting my words, stop it". BECAUSE HE FUCKING WAS!! What? You want me to make a 10 pages rebuttal of his terrible case? His case is so fucking wrong it woudln't be too hard. There is no reason to fake claim here. Probulous breadcrumbed in the beginning of the thread, if that isn't proof enough. Prob was spot on against Sheth. Gonzaw is pretty much the only person that against Prob right now. Gonz then posts this weird post above about WIFOM non-sense, something he is against. What? There is no reason to fake-claim? Are you fucking kidding me? IT'S FUCKING LYLO IF HE FAKECLAIMS, AND THERE IS NO DT, THEN HE COULD HAVE SURVIVED D4 WITH HIS SCUMBUDDY AND WIN THE GAME Are you fucking kidding me? Also "Prob breadcrumbed in the beginning of the thread". Do you think scum can't do that? Even more, that breadcrumb was so "hidden", that scum can do it, but then never fakeclaim blue anyways, knowing the "breadcrumb" is so fucking hidden no other townie will ever find it. And what WIFOM nonsense are you talking about? Of course it's WIFOM, and it should be noted, BECAUSE YOU FUCKING GUYS JUST ASSUMED HE WAS TELLING THE TRUTH. Nail in the coffin. Right : rolleyes : Are you kidding me? Are you saying that Ver's Guide is wrong? If someone acts in a way opposite of what Ver says in the guide, I find that evidence enough to be suspicious, because I trust most of what that guide says... It's also why they even put links to those guides here in the first place! Also, wow. I'm almost convinced both of you are teaming up on me. Either you blatantly sheep Prob's aweful case against me without any reason whatsoever, or you just skimmed through my filter and used strawman, misinterpretation and just blatantly wrong statements to paint me suspicious. Not only that, both of you are saying "You are fucking suspicious and I think you are scum, but hey, gonzaw is scum too, we could lynch him first" Hey I can do that too!! "Hey Cats', you are fucking suspicious and I think you are scum, but hey, Paper is scum too, we could lynch him first" ##Vote: Paperscraps However, I'll still fucking check Cephiro, everybody's just assuming he's fucking confirmed townie by this point is not funny. Although that's a very good reason to fucking continue tunneling me On January 13 2012 22:35 Paperscraps wrote:Cats inconsistent play doesn't strike gonzaw as odd? By gonzaw's logic, Cats and gonzaw's minimal and evasive communication should be something to note then. Cats is all over the place with accusations and changes of heart. Yes, his fucking inconsistent play strike me as odd, but his behaviour didn't. At least at that point, now I know I was wrong. | ||
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Is he null or not? You either are waiting for more info (null case) or you think he is mafia (until now case). How can you have both positions in the same sentence?
