Newbie Mini Mafia II - Page 44

On January 13 2012 08:49 Probulous wrote:
Here I made a simple comment that if someone has been roleblocked, they should claim. Gonzaw points out that the mafia could do this as well which will fuck us up. Any information for town is good, look what happened last yesterday when Blurry claimed late. We have a lot more information now than before he claimed. With enough time claims can be verified. Gonz here seems to be suggesting no-one claim when they are roleblocked which keeps town in the dark.

Gonz here seems to be suggesting no-one claim when they are roleblocked which keeps town in the dark.

Knowing that Blurry actually was the medic makes this a particularly stark breadcrumb from him. Cephiro congrats on picking that up, I should have listened to you. But I want to point out how useless WIFOM discussions are in the early game. You have zero information to work with and so cannot make reasonable assumptions. All WIFOM does at this point is inflate your post count and clog up the thread. It makes it hard to find out anything because people are discussing stuff which has no bearing on the game.

Note so far Gonz hasn’t actually targeted anyone for analysis. He writes massive posts with lots of white space but doesn’t really say much. Below is his first attempt at analysis

Fluff and filler. This is not pressure, this is pointing out obvious stuff without following through.

I mean "trusting" people is suddenly a scumslip? It isn't aggressive and doesn't force responses. Then comes his vote

For now I'll pressure vote Xeris to come here and post his thoughts, but if we have nothing to go on by the time the day ends I'll vote for you

Nice way to undermine the value of your vote. Look at the blatant contradiction to what he said on the previous page

At least it will guarantee they will not remain inactive the whole day, since if they do they get lynched.

The rest of his analysis has him pointing out stuff about Cats and Cookie’s play but again he isn’t aggressive. He doesn’t explain how this makes them mafia or why it isn’t just a newbie mistake. In fact he mentioned Gretorp, Xeris, Cats and Cookie as scummy but voted for Xeris with a “pressure” vote which he himself says does nothing.
He then gets into a discussion with Xeris about Random Voting for some reason. There is some back and forth with Cats and stuff about timezones. There are a lot of posts but not much substance.

Then straight after my case on Cookie, Cats and Cephiro he post this long thing

Note that he had mentioned Cookie’s stuff earlier but never called him out on it. Then my case comes up and bam he is scum. His reasoning is that Cookie made a big “read” on who is town? As he says your role is to find scum, well Gonz at this point you had not found anyone except Xeris. A lurker who hadn’t posted anything of note. He then gets on Cookie’s case because Cookie trusts people. How are these two things, finding townies and trusting people, a mafia trait? Sure they are not the best townie play but they are hardly pushing a scum agenda. They are pushing for a miss-lynch.

He calls out Blurry for standing by his insistence that people claim when they are roleblocked, saying it should be obvious. This is a blatant contradiction from his earlier stance on the issue.
Some more WIFOM stuff, a discussion about Smurfs and some back and forth with me about what a lynch says about someone.

Some more WIFOM stuff, a discussion about Smurfs and some back and forth with me about what a lynch says about someone.

Note that Sheth’s point is that if someone claims a roleblock, then there is likely to be a medic or DT. Mafia have not roleblocked all game, I believe this was their plan from the start. Hence why Gonz points outs the WIFOM to Blurry and why Sheth was so keen to talk about roleblocking and blue roles. In particular the DT. Gonz defends him here as talking to the DT.
This post was scummy as hell to me because there was no reason for Sheth to be talking about the DT. We had decided that before, but instead he tries to talk directly to them giving them misinformation. He says that if there is a roleblock then the DT knows there is a medic. Well as per previous discussions this is all WIFOM because scum could claim a roleblock.
Gonz was the one to point that out but here he defends Sheth. I misread Sheth’s post but upon rereading it looks worse. The fact that Gonz was so quick to defend him makes him scum in my eyes.
Gonz doesn’t really change his style for the rest of the game. He writes these massive posts with very little content.

The fact that Gonz was so quick to defend him makes him scum in my eyes.

He writes these massive posts with very little content.

Voting analysis
Gonz first vote for a AKCT was because Cookie was scum. His reasons as pointed out were that Cookie was finding townies and trusted people. He never presented an updated case on Cookie. He called him out on small things but never presented a case that shows the scum agenda behind Cookie’s actions. His response on when Cookie flipped town

Such surprise!

He then immediately jump onto Blurry. Now think for a second, we just lynched someone who was obvious a newb town.

We lynched him because his play was wishy-washy and it made him look like scum. So what does Gonz do, he jumps on a new candidate which looks exactly like AKCT.

His suspicions are based on actions which were identical to Cookies. Then he gets into a huge argument with Tunk about stupid stuff which I still don’t understand. Tunk rightly points out that Gonz is being distracting. I stupidly assume mafia would not put themselves in the spotlight like this by arguing with their night kill right before the day post. It is bad WIFOM and I shouldn’t have done that.
Again it looks like Gonz is being an aggressive poster trying to catch people but in reality he pulls Tunk up on stupid stuff. It was clear that Tunk was town the same for Jitsu. But earlier he called Jitsu out for supposedly claiming to be scum. This whole episode just reeks of looking like contributing without contributing.

Whilst at the same time calling out Blurry on his WIFOM. The irony that Gonz is apparently the king of WIFOM but he finds Blurry’s WIFOM a scum tell?
Then comes his massive rant after Jitsu’s mentions him before his death.

This doesn’t say anything except more crap about Blurry. As far I can tell he has no case against Blurry. Everything used to describe Blurry’s play could be used to describe Cats’ play. Hel Gonz was the king of WIFOM and he hasn’t explained how WIFOM at this point of the game is bad. It is certainly better now than in the early days. At least now we have some information to go off.

Then comes his vote for Blurry which I have responded to. The only thing that is of note is that Blurry hardly corresponded with Sheth. Of course he hardly corresponded with anyone so that doesn’t really mean anything. But Gonz goes balls to wall on Blurry.

I point out that Blurry would have had to bus Sheth very early for his case to make sense and given Blurry’s play it seems to sophisticated. Of course Gonz points out that the plan is pretty simple. He knows because that is exactly what he did. Blurry had no shown high quality play all game. He hadn’t provided any reads and was waffling a lot, Gonz however has shown he is willing to make risky decisions. He is willing to put himself out there. Thus I think it highly likely he would do something like bus Sheth. Especially since he was already seen as town.

He then attacks me for defending Blurry. I stupidly (sorry Blurry I was bad yesterday) back down. If I believe someone is town then I should defend them. Hell if you think someone is mafia you should attack but let others counter your arguments. Only mafia know for sure if someone is town. Gonz’s insistence that Blurry defend himself only makes sense from a mafia point of view. A town’s person wants to know where he is wrong. He cannot be certain, but Gonz doesn’t want counter arguments.

On January 05 2012 14:09 Probulous wrote:



Can we try to agree on something :p

This just puts you into a WIFOm situation where you end up trading a DT for one mafia. I don't like that trade. DT should stay hidden.

On January 05 2012 14:17 Probulous wrote:

On the topic of DTs, medics and the such. I stand by what I wrote in my analysis of both Cookie and Cephiro, I don't want to discuss them. My personel preference is for blues to stay hidden and do their own thing. I agree that a medic should obviously choose a dangerous townie (dangerous from a mafia POV), but again we don't need to discuss this. This is the last thing I will say about blue roles.

On January 05 2012 14:19 Probulous wrote:

*Personal.

I hate it when people get that wrong and I just did it. For shame