EPTOn December 28 2011 19:47 Fontong wrote:
Maybe we just perceive them to fall to the ground
Oh snap
Maybe we just perceive them to fall to the ground
Oh snap
Well then seems we need to modify our model ^^
My Girlfriend is a Creationist - Page 5
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
Well then seems we need to modify our model ^^ | ||
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
On December 28 2011 19:49 ShadeR wrote: Well then seems we need to modify our model ^^ Yes, it needs to account for the influence of His noodley appendage. | ||
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Azzur
Australia6251 Posts
On December 28 2011 19:39 Fontong wrote: ^^It's rather moot to bring that up. I'm sure most people here, if asked, would say that they are referring to agnostic atheism. It's the same thing that Einstein believed in, but he just didn't want to be associated with the people saying that a god certainly does not exist. I agree. Show me scientific evidence that there is a god and I will believe it. I'm an atheist, but I'm definitely not unwilling to believe in the proven existence of a deity. Yup, my girlfriend too believed in christianity and all that when we started dating. It honestly bothered the crap out of me. After half a year or so of explaining and wearing down her built up defenses -- the ones protecting her from logic and scientific evidence -- she caved and has now more or less abandoned her beliefs in christianity. You seem to be like me in that it'll actually bother you if she maintains her beliefs in religion. She said it herself: she has been brainwashed since she was a little kid to believe in stuff which was probably written by people high off their asses thousands of years ago. Honestly, it's not something that's going to go away overnight. That's just what happens when people are taught something from birth. If she is actually smart like you say... there is a good chance that she will eventually see reason. Shit, doesn't it boggle your mind that people can believe in stuff like god? It boggles mine. Do yourself (and her) a favor and convince her that atheism is the logical choice. It's a favor to me too :3, and I'm sure other atheists will appreciate it too if you can get her to drop religion. I disagree with the bolded text. You are an agnostic but there are alot of people (especially in TL) who believe in the non-existence of god (i.e. an atheist). The most famous example of an atheist is Richard Dawkins. Even though many people lump atheism and agnostic together, in reality, they are different. | ||
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
On December 28 2011 19:51 Azzur wrote: I disagree with the bolded text. You are an agnostic but there are alot of people (especially in TL) who believe in the non-existence of god (i.e. an atheist). The most famous example of an atheist is Richard Dawkins. Even though many people lump atheism and agnostic together, in reality, they are different. Dawkins argues that "the existence of God is a scientific hypothesis like any other". Sounds like the definition of an agnostic atheist to me. Agnostic atheism, also called atheistic agnosticism, is a philosophical position that encompasses both atheism and agnosticism. Agnostic atheists are atheistic because they do not hold a belief in the existence of any deity and agnostic because they claim that the existence of a deity is either unknowable in principle or currently unknown in fact. The agnostic atheist may be contrasted with the agnostic theist, who does believe that one or more deities exist but claims that the existence or nonexistence of such is unknown or cannot be known. -He does not believe in the existence of any deity and -he claims that the existence of a deity is currently unknowable in fact. I don't know why you disagree. | ||
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Divinek
Canada4045 Posts
But I mean if you want to believe that paleontology, paleoanthropology, archeology, geology, radiometric dating comparative anatomy, physiology, psychology, genetics, molecular biology, biochemistry ,astronomy, astrophysics etc works the way science says it does but still think the earth is flat because you cant see a round globe from where you're standing then I guess that's okay... should probably check out this dope ernst mayr quote because my hair stands on end when people say 'evolution is just a theory' + Show Spoiler + “Is evolution a fact? Evolution is not merely an idea, a theory, or a concept, but is the name of a process in nature, the occurrence of which can be documented by mountains of evidence that nobody has been able to refute … It is now actually misleading to refer to evolution as a theory, considering the massive evidence that has been discovered over the last 140 years … Evolution is no longer a theory, it is simply a fact.” (What Evolution Is, 2001) so we accept this as fact because to disprove it would actually be ludicrous, if you were to prove this fact wrong you'd be the most famous scientist in the history of the world, even bigger than Einstein! I actually hate threads that argue about shit like this cause no one's ever gonna change anyone's mind, but I love evolutionary theory, and the premise of your thread is great, despite the garbage that might spiral out of it from the 99% ignorant populace. | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
As such Atheist and agnostic might as well be the same group as god is irrelevant to both. | ||
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Azzur
Australia6251 Posts
On December 28 2011 19:57 Fontong wrote: Sounds like the definition of an agnostic atheist to me. -He does not believe in the existence of any deity and -he claims that the existence of a deity is currently unknowable in fact. I don't know why you disagree. Cools thanks - I was unaware of such a philosophical position - I knew there were "atheists" and "agnostics" but not "atheistic agnostics". | ||
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reki-
Netherlands327 Posts
Besides that, what are you going to teach your children someday. Though going by my first question i can't help but feel like a religious freak who thinks their way is the only way  | ||
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Pondo
Australia283 Posts
But even without all that I would find it difficult having to spend the rest of my life with someone who believes the world is 6000 years old. It would be tough trying not to be condescending in every argument ever after I learned that about them. :S | ||
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Divinek
Canada4045 Posts
On December 28 2011 20:02 Azzur wrote: Cools thanks - I was unaware of such a philosophical position - I knew there were "atheists" and "agnostics" but not "atheistic agnostics". There's the whole range in that gambit you can have -irreligion: one who doesnt care or actively think about religious issues -implicit atheist: absence of belief in deity, but no conscious rejection of belief in deity (really close to irreligious) -agnostic atheist, as mentioned -true agnostic, believes no one knows if deity exists, and doesnt know themselves -agnostic theist, no one knows if doeity exists, but they believe it does -explicit atheist: deity dont exist yo | ||
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Surth
Germany456 Posts
On December 28 2011 16:35 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Hm, I'm not sure I understand the second part. Specifically about the 60,000 years. I thought I remember from my textbooks they kept saying they used mainly carbon dating, maybe not for the old stuff? Carbon-dating loses its accuracy for things older than roughly 50.000 to 60.000 years. Alternatives are for example Potassium–argon dating. I think it's a bit hard to explain about the evolution part, for me at least. So lets say, back in the past, our modern human species was different back then; we've changed now, branched off, and so we are our own species now. Some of the other branches include the neanderthals and such. And that ancestor, from which we branched off from, used to be the same species as the ancestor of monkeys today. And lets say that ancestor was created by god, however that might have happened. That is the form that god created them, and they evolved from there. Over time they evolved into other things, leading to gorillas, monkeys, humans, today, etc. And in other branches in the animal kingdom, there are all these species that were ancestors to the species we see today. However, when God created them, all these ancestor species were different from each other. They were in different genus perhaps, etc. etc. Now, creationists will say that if humans came from an ancestor that was a different species from humans of that of today, we are the same thing as monkeys or gorillas, and they will say that obviously it is not true; humans are not monkeys, therefore evolution must be not be occurring because for humans and monkeys to be the same means that god didn't create life uniquely. Being created uniquely and not being able to change or evolve over time are two different things. I hope that helped...? xD What? | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
On December 28 2011 19:23 Integra wrote: Then would be no schools since nothing can be proven 100%  School could be 100 % Math. I would have been pretty happy with a school like that.  | ||
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BookTwo
1985 Posts
On December 28 2011 17:01 fuzzy_panda wrote: You don't "believe" in evolution, you either accept it or don't. Observational science refutes the theory of evolution. We as humans have not physically seen the process of evolution taking place. The incredibly brief time that we have been alive and begun records has not been anywhere near enough to actually see the manifestations of evolution. Because we have not seen it, we have to place our trust (faith, belief, whatever you want to call it) in the instruments we use and the knowledge we possess. Now you are thinking, "But we know for a FACT that evolution is irrefutable." You may think so, but only because you believe, 100%, that the tools you used to acquire this knowledge were right. The same way Creationists believe, 100%, that the scripture they read is right. On December 28 2011 18:04 Piste wrote: oh my.. man I really can't understand how there are so many people believing in god. I'm a have-a-philosophical-debate-over-coffee-type and whenever I haven't seen a night sky scattered with stars for a while (happens too often, living in a big city and having a busy life does prevent this) I always get caught out with wonder. The stars I see represent the power of creation. The peace I feel when I'm praising Him is something unexplainable. Feeling physically lighter as if a burden has been lifted can't be explained with science. I think science is great thing. Scientists are indeed noble people. I also think that science vs religion shouldn't always be the case. But the fact that you are breathing the air you are and reading this with eyes and understanding it with the most incredibly designed computation device ever known to man while hearing background noises and feeling the mouse under your hand, storing memories of years past all on an insignificant speck of rock in a unassuming pocket of our galaxy, one of billions upon billions in the colossal universe makes me think that random chance had no chance. No chance at all. Believing in God is the best thing that ever happened to me. Being able to say that I have been truly happy, and I mean truly happy, beyond expression and still feel so day-to-day is something many, if not most people cannot. Having a purpose in life and not feeling empty or wanting more or craving the next thing or having a feeling of emptiness is a great way to live as well. If believing in God makes me feel completed, a good person, a model citizen and respectful of all other people, is that such a bad thing? Do you understand why I do? Why? | ||
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Eatme
Switzerland3919 Posts
Just think macro game, bring it up once a month or so at most and keep it low key. | ||
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Shaetan
United States1175 Posts
On December 28 2011 20:29 BookTwo wrote: Observational science refutes the theory of evolution. We as humans have not physically seen the process of evolution taking place. The incredibly brief time that we have been alive and begun records has not been anywhere near enough to actually see the manifestations of evolution. Because we have not seen it, we have to place our trust (faith, belief, whatever you want to call it) in the instruments we use and the knowledge we possess. We have observed microevolution in a lab. E. coli grown on substrates that do not normally allow growth gain mutations that allow them to use that substrate for survival. I believe very recently there was some article about macroevolution being observed somewhere but a brief google search failed me  So we have seen the process of evolution occur in some sense. On December 28 2011 20:29 BookTwo wrote: Now you are thinking, "But we know for a FACT that evolution is irrefutable." You may think so, but only because you believe, 100%, that the tools you used to acquire this knowledge were right. The same way Creationists believe, 100%, that the scripture they read is right. This statement just doesn't make sense to me. We don't just accept that the tools we use are right, they are checked/rechecked/validated etc. before they are used. Even after they are used, if something new arises disproving a previously held belief, then the scientific view adapts to this newfound knowledge. Scripture does not change. It is true simply because it is stated to be true no matter how many discrepancies are found. On December 28 2011 20:29 BookTwo wrote: I'm a have-a-philosophical-debate-over-coffee-type and whenever I haven't seen a night sky scattered with stars for a while (happens too often, living in a big city and having a busy life does prevent this) I always get caught out with wonder. The stars I see represent the power of creation. The peace I feel when I'm praising Him is something unexplainable. Feeling physically lighter as if a burden has been lifted can't be explained with science. I think science is great thing. Scientists are indeed noble people. I also think that science vs religion shouldn't always be the case. But the fact that you are breathing the air you are and reading this with eyes and understanding it with the most incredibly designed computation device ever known to man while hearing background noises and feeling the mouse under your hand, storing memories of years past all on an insignificant speck of rock in a unassuming pocket of our galaxy, one of billions upon billions in the colossal universe makes me think that random chance had no chance. No chance at all. Believing in God is the best thing that ever happened to me. Being able to say that I have been truly happy, and I mean truly happy, beyond expression and still feel so day-to-day is something many, if not most people cannot. Having a purpose in life and not feeling empty or wanting more or craving the next thing or having a feeling of emptiness is a great way to live as well. If believing in God makes me feel completed, a good person, a model citizen and respectful of all other people, is that such a bad thing? Do you understand why I do? Why? I have no problem with you being religious because it makes you feel better about life. Carry on and be happy. I do have a problem with beliefs lacking evidence being peddled as fact. | ||
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
On December 28 2011 20:29 BookTwo wrote: Observational science refutes the theory of evolution. We as humans have not physically seen the process of evolution taking place. The incredibly brief time that we have been alive and begun records has not been anywhere near enough to actually see the manifestations of evolution. Because we have not seen it, we have to place our trust (faith, belief, whatever you want to call it) in the instruments we use and the knowledge we possess. Just because we haven't seen a fish grow wings and fly doesn't not at all mean evolution has been refuted. We can even now observe not only the evidence that evolution has occurred on a major scale, but also the several mechanisms by which evolution takes place -- natural selection included. As the above poster mentioned, we can even observe actual evolution taking place in microorganisms. In fact, your statement is completely incorrect. Evolution is supported by both observational (where controlled experiments cannot be conducted) and non-observational science. | ||
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adwodon
United Kingdom592 Posts
She may change her views over time but don't try and push an agenda, people are people, we believe different things for different reasons and as an atheist I don't believe in some kind of cosmic bitch slap if your beliefs aren't the 'correct' ones. If you like her as a person, and you get on well then that's all you need. | ||
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paschl
Germany666 Posts
this is a deal breaker. or at least it would turn out to be one since i could never stop myself from making jokes about it even if i somehow was able to overlook it at first (ie she is really hot). | ||
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writer22816
United States5775 Posts
On December 28 2011 20:44 adwodon wrote: Unless you're some sort of academic or she starts to become some kind of activist and her beliefs would affect your life in some way then it really doesn't matter one bit what her religious views are. She may change her views over time but don't try and push an agenda, people are people, we believe different things for different reasons and as an atheist I don't believe in some kind of cosmic bitch slap if your beliefs aren't the 'correct' ones. If you like her as a person, and you get on well then that's all you need. This. Why are people here so extreme -.- | ||
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reki-
Netherlands327 Posts
On December 28 2011 20:55 writer22816 wrote: This. Why are people here so extreme -.- Like someone above posted, i could not let this slide without making the occasional joke about it and that alone could form a rift between you and your girlfriend | ||
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