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On December 28 2011 20:29 BookTwo wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 28 2011 17:01 fuzzy_panda wrote:
You don't "believe" in evolution, you either accept it or don't. Observational science refutes the theory of evolution. We as humans have not physically seen the process of evolution taking place. The incredibly brief time that we have been alive and begun records has not been anywhere near enough to actually see the manifestations of evolution. Because we have not seen it, we have to place our trust (faith, belief, whatever you want to call it) in the instruments we use and the knowledge we possess. Now you are thinking, "But we know for a FACT that evolution is irrefutable." You may think so, but only because you believe, 100%, that the tools you used to acquire this knowledge were right. The same way Creationists believe, 100%, that the scripture they read is right. On December 28 2011 18:04 Piste wrote:
oh my.. man I really can't understand how there are so many people believing in god. I'm a have-a-philosophical-debate-over-coffee-type and whenever I haven't seen a night sky scattered with stars for a while (happens too often, living in a big city and having a busy life does prevent this) I always get caught out with wonder. The stars I see represent the power of creation. The peace I feel when I'm praising Him is something unexplainable. Feeling physically lighter as if a burden has been lifted can't be explained with science. I think science is great thing. Scientists are indeed noble people. I also think that science vs religion shouldn't always be the case. But the fact that you are breathing the air you are and reading this with eyes and understanding it with the most incredibly designed computation device ever known to man while hearing background noises and feeling the mouse under your hand, storing memories of years past all on an insignificant speck of rock in a unassuming pocket of our galaxy, one of billions upon billions in the colossal universe makes me think that random chance had no chance. No chance at all. Believing in God is the best thing that ever happened to me. Being able to say that I have been truly happy, and I mean truly happy, beyond expression and still feel so day-to-day is something many, if not most people cannot. Having a purpose in life and not feeling empty or wanting more or craving the next thing or having a feeling of emptiness is a great way to live as well. If believing in God makes me feel completed, a good person, a model citizen and respectful of all other people, is that such a bad thing? Do you understand why I do? On December 28 2011 17:04 dronebabo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2011 16:54 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On December 28 2011 16:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 28 2011 16:35 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On December 28 2011 16:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Every person in every relationship is going to have flaws of different severities. Assess whether or not this is a dealbreaker for you. (If you're a biologist, it probably is; if you have no interest in science, it probably isn't. You're probably somewhere in between.) If it's a dealbreaker, see if you can persuade her. If you can't, then maybe she's not the right person for you. Just keep in mind that she may have more good qualities than bad ones. On December 28 2011 16:24 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
I'm a creationist and I just want to stress the importance that a lot of atheists or evolutionists don't realize. Please don't ever use the term evolutionists -.-' Who are evolutionists? Biologists? Scientists? The experts when it comes to studying this topic? Oh okay... but please don't use that other term; it's rather silly. And atheism (or any religion or lack thereof) has nothing to do with accepting scientific fact/ theory. I just mean anyone who believes in evolution, I don't mean people who only believe in that, and I don't necessarily mean atheists. That is why I said atheists "or" evolutionists. Since the OP seemed not to be neither a nonevolutionist nor a creationist, both the terms atheist and evolutionist applied to him. Just to be clear, note that evolution isn't a "belief" in the same way that Creationism is. It's not Creationists. vs. Evolutionists. That would imply that there are equal grounds of evidences or interpretation (as I believe you were suggesting earlier). That's not the case. Evolution is a scientific and natural explanation. You accept evolution, not believe it, because it's based on empirical evidence and facts. Creationism is a religious and supernatural explanation. You personally believe it because it's based on your faith. (Of course, there are countless Creation stories... you happen to agree with the Genesis Creation one because you're a Christian and you'd prefer the Bible's explanation. Okay, but that's not what the evidence- or the scientific community who are the experts in studying how humans came into existence- agrees with.) Sorry but I certainly did not imply that, least not intentionally, and do not see how it is wrong to say it is a belief. In terms of science, evolution is a theory, because it cannot be proven for every single case in the existence of the universe, because obviously that would be ridiculous. If it's not proven, then it is a theory, meaning that even though it is well established and there is a lot of evidence, there is still a chance, no matter how small, that it is wrong. Therefore, you believe in a theory. this is so wrong Why?
For me, the situation is pretty much exactly reversed. At the moment, if I try to answer honestly, my gut feeling is telling me there is no God, and yet I am pretty content living.
I am in my thirties, and in my past I also had a time where I believed God is real and exists. For me, this did not mean that I was happy with living. In fact, I had years of problems with depression. I cannot honestly say if believing in God was helpful or detrimental to me. Completely "winning" against depression happened years after I had already lost faith that there is a god. So I know I had suffered from depression with and without believing in God.
I am convinced I can be truly happy without believing in God and an afterlife.
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On December 28 2011 20:43 Fontong wrote:
Just because we haven't seen a fish grow wings and fly doesn't not at all mean evolution has been refuted.
In strict terms, it does mean exactly that. If your model can not be tested (at least theoretical), the theory is not scientific. Luckily, in this case, genetics plus the example of the e.coli bacteria someone gave above.
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United States22883 Posts
On December 28 2011 20:44 adwodon wrote:
Unless you're some sort of academic or she starts to become some kind of activist and her beliefs would affect your life in some way then it really doesn't matter one bit what her religious views are.
She may change her views over time but don't try and push an agenda, people are people, we believe different things for different reasons and as an atheist I don't believe in some kind of cosmic bitch slap if your beliefs aren't the 'correct' ones.
If you like her as a person, and you get on well then that's all you need.
Because there's an issue of respect and it's difficult, if not impossible, to be in a relationship with someone who you don't respect. Holding such an elementary view, I would have difficulty respecting someone like that. This is one of the most extreme cases of faith against logic, where faith refutes what has been logically observed and proven, unlike other issues where there is simply a lack of evidence. It's just being obstinate and foolish.
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On December 28 2011 20:42 Shaetan wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 28 2011 20:29 BookTwo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2011 17:01 fuzzy_panda wrote:
You don't "believe" in evolution, you either accept it or don't. Observational science refutes the theory of evolution. We as humans have not physically seen the process of evolution taking place. The incredibly brief time that we have been alive and begun records has not been anywhere near enough to actually see the manifestations of evolution. Because we have not seen it, we have to place our trust (faith, belief, whatever you want to call it) in the instruments we use and the knowledge we possess. We have observed microevolution in a lab. E. coli grown on substrates that do not normally allow growth gain mutations that allow them to use that substrate for survival. I believe very recently there was some article about macroevolution being observed somewhere but a brief google search failed me  So we have seen the process of evolution occur in some sense. On December 28 2011 20:29 BookTwo wrote:
Now you are thinking, "But we know for a FACT that evolution is irrefutable." You may think so, but only because you believe, 100%, that the tools you used to acquire this knowledge were right. The same way Creationists believe, 100%, that the scripture they read is right.
This statement just doesn't make sense to me. We don't just accept that the tools we use are right, they are checked/rechecked/validated etc. before they are used. Even after they are used, if something new arises disproving a previously held belief, then the scientific view adapts to this newfound knowledge. Scripture does not change. It is true simply because it is stated to be true no matter how many discrepancies are found. On December 28 2011 20:29 BookTwo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2011 18:04 Piste wrote:
oh my.. man I really can't understand how there are so many people believing in god. I'm a have-a-philosophical-debate-over-coffee-type and whenever I haven't seen a night sky scattered with stars for a while (happens too often, living in a big city and having a busy life does prevent this) I always get caught out with wonder. The stars I see represent the power of creation. The peace I feel when I'm praising Him is something unexplainable. Feeling physically lighter as if a burden has been lifted can't be explained with science. I think science is great thing. Scientists are indeed noble people. I also think that science vs religion shouldn't always be the case. But the fact that you are breathing the air you are and reading this with eyes and understanding it with the most incredibly designed computation device ever known to man while hearing background noises and feeling the mouse under your hand, storing memories of years past all on an insignificant speck of rock in a unassuming pocket of our galaxy, one of billions upon billions in the colossal universe makes me think that random chance had no chance. No chance at all. Believing in God is the best thing that ever happened to me. Being able to say that I have been truly happy, and I mean truly happy, beyond expression and still feel so day-to-day is something many, if not most people cannot. Having a purpose in life and not feeling empty or wanting more or craving the next thing or having a feeling of emptiness is a great way to live as well. If believing in God makes me feel completed, a good person, a model citizen and respectful of all other people, is that such a bad thing? Do you understand why I do? Show nested quote +On December 28 2011 17:04 dronebabo wrote:On December 28 2011 16:54 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On December 28 2011 16:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 28 2011 16:35 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On December 28 2011 16:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Every person in every relationship is going to have flaws of different severities. Assess whether or not this is a dealbreaker for you. (If you're a biologist, it probably is; if you have no interest in science, it probably isn't. You're probably somewhere in between.) If it's a dealbreaker, see if you can persuade her. If you can't, then maybe she's not the right person for you. Just keep in mind that she may have more good qualities than bad ones. On December 28 2011 16:24 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
I'm a creationist and I just want to stress the importance that a lot of atheists or evolutionists don't realize. Please don't ever use the term evolutionists -.-' Who are evolutionists? Biologists? Scientists? The experts when it comes to studying this topic? Oh okay... but please don't use that other term; it's rather silly. And atheism (or any religion or lack thereof) has nothing to do with accepting scientific fact/ theory. I just mean anyone who believes in evolution, I don't mean people who only believe in that, and I don't necessarily mean atheists. That is why I said atheists "or" evolutionists. Since the OP seemed not to be neither a nonevolutionist nor a creationist, both the terms atheist and evolutionist applied to him. Just to be clear, note that evolution isn't a "belief" in the same way that Creationism is. It's not Creationists. vs. Evolutionists. That would imply that there are equal grounds of evidences or interpretation (as I believe you were suggesting earlier). That's not the case. Evolution is a scientific and natural explanation. You accept evolution, not believe it, because it's based on empirical evidence and facts. Creationism is a religious and supernatural explanation. You personally believe it because it's based on your faith. (Of course, there are countless Creation stories... you happen to agree with the Genesis Creation one because you're a Christian and you'd prefer the Bible's explanation. Okay, but that's not what the evidence- or the scientific community who are the experts in studying how humans came into existence- agrees with.) Sorry but I certainly did not imply that, least not intentionally, and do not see how it is wrong to say it is a belief. In terms of science, evolution is a theory, because it cannot be proven for every single case in the existence of the universe, because obviously that would be ridiculous. If it's not proven, then it is a theory, meaning that even though it is well established and there is a lot of evidence, there is still a chance, no matter how small, that it is wrong. Therefore, you believe in a theory. this is so wrong Why? I have no problem with you being religious because it makes you feel better about life. Carry on and be happy. I do have a problem with beliefs lacking evidence being peddled as fact.
Exactly, one of the major problems of religion is the fact they need to proselytize everyone else around them and spread the word (as mentioned in the bible in the christian faith). This leads to stuff like condoms in Africa, homosexual discrimination, child indoctrination, religious wars etc. If they actually just kept it to themselves without force feeding it on everyone the world would be a better place.
On December 28 2011 20:29 BookTwo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2011 18:04 Piste wrote:
oh my.. man I really can't understand how there are so many people believing in god. I'm a have-a-philosophical-debate-over-coffee-type and whenever I haven't seen a night sky scattered with stars for a while (happens too often, living in a big city and having a busy life does prevent this) I always get caught out with wonder. The stars I see represent the power of creation. The peace I feel when I'm praising Him is something unexplainable. Feeling physically lighter as if a burden has been lifted can't be explained with science. I think science is great thing. Scientists are indeed noble people. I also think that science vs religion shouldn't always be the case. But the fact that you are breathing the air you are and reading this with eyes and understanding it with the most incredibly designed computation device ever known to man while hearing background noises and feeling the mouse under your hand, storing memories of years past all on an insignificant speck of rock in a unassuming pocket of our galaxy, one of billions upon billions in the colossal universe makes me think that random chance had no chance. No chance at all. Believing in God is the best thing that ever happened to me. Being able to say that I have been truly happy, and I mean truly happy, beyond expression and still feel so day-to-day is something many, if not most people cannot. Having a purpose in life and not feeling empty or wanting more or craving the next thing or having a feeling of emptiness is a great way to live as well. If believing in God makes me feel completed, a good person, a model citizen and respectful of all other people, is that such a bad thing? Do you understand why I do?
Actually with billions and billions of stars, statistical improbabilities start becoming more plausible. 1 in a billion isn't that low a probability with 9 x 10^21 stars in the observable universe.
Sure you gain some purpose and that fulfillment of the emptiness, which i empathise with, but a god would not do it for me. I would feel too intellectually, emotionally and mentally conflicted. I thought about it, once, but i know it will never fulfill me the way it does for you. No its not a bad thing, but like i said above in my other reply, proselytizing and forcing arbitrary rules and laws on nonbelievers as well as believers is not right.
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People saying "its not that important, so just ignore the topic" forget one big thing: Even if its not important to the OP , it could be the most important thing to the girl (in case she is serious in her faith). These are the possibilities in my opinion:
- You want a serious realationship: You NEED to talk about it! Sooner or later it will come up.
- You dont want a serious relationship: Stop being an egoistic douche.
Allthough if she is sleeping with you I cant imagine her being dedicated to her faith.. In that case ignore my post.
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United States22883 Posts
On December 28 2011 19:35 Azzur wrote:The issue here is many people in this thread flatly promote something as "fact" and "correct" even though nothing has been conclusively proven. Also, thinly veiled insults are thrown to people who don't ascribe to their beliefs as "uneducated". One of the greatest minds ever existed (Albert Einstein) is not an atheist. On the other hand, he also does not believe in a Christian God either and he is an agnostic (i.e. "doesn't know"). He rejects atheism and claims that the universe is not subject to random chance. I can dig up more famous scientists but he is the most well known one. source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein's_religious_viewsI didn't read this in the source I quoted, so this is just a guess, but Einsten's most likely stance on creation/evolution is that he is a theistic evolutionist, i.e. someone who believes in evolution but a god to guide the process. I can also find many famous scientists who believe in this.
There's an enormous difference between believing in some type of passive God, and believing in an active, intervening God whose actions defy evidence. The former deals with a lack of evidence, the latter is simply ignoring information.
Kenneth Miller is a Catholic molecular biologist who is one of the strongest proponents of evolution and has argued against Creationism in court. His faith doesn't prevent him from conducting proper science, he simply believes there is a force that set things in motion.
You can't disprove someone's faith in God, but you sure can disprove Creationism.
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(this is coming from someone who has a very strong stance on this topic) If it doesn't look to be affecting your relationship in any real way, and you enjoy being with her, then great! Don't let it get in your way. I suppose if you start loathing her at some point you could consider it another reason to break up.
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I can't believe ppl are linking to theists to an atheist site, thinking they would be influenced by them.
A religious person is exactly like a Hawks fan. That is the end of my post, no more explanation will be required.
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On December 28 2011 21:13 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2011 20:44 adwodon wrote:
Unless you're some sort of academic or she starts to become some kind of activist and her beliefs would affect your life in some way then it really doesn't matter one bit what her religious views are.
She may change her views over time but don't try and push an agenda, people are people, we believe different things for different reasons and as an atheist I don't believe in some kind of cosmic bitch slap if your beliefs aren't the 'correct' ones.
If you like her as a person, and you get on well then that's all you need. Because there's an issue of respect and it's difficult, if not impossible, to be in a relationship with someone who you don't respect. Holding such an elementary view, I would have difficulty respecting someone like that. This is one of the most extreme cases of faith against logic, where faith refutes what has been logically observed and proven, unlike other issues where there is simply a lack of evidence. It's just being obstinate and foolish.
Ahh beat me too it. How can i learn to love someone i don't respect?
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On December 28 2011 16:24 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
I'm a creationist and I just want to stress the importance that a lot of atheists or evolutionists don't realize.
People interpret the Bible (or other creationist religions) in MANY different ways. That is why there are so many things like "catholic", "evangelical", etc. etc. etc. They have different values and such.
Many people today say that the Bible (and there are some verses that address this) states that god created each being, you know, uniquely, etc. etc. So from that they say, oh, then it means that evolution has to be wrong, since things can't be unique if they change from fish to blah to blah to humans.
My view is that that "interpretation" is wrong. Each species is still unique in their own way. Just because, for example, humans were more like monkeys back then, it does not mean that humans and monkeys are the same thing, therefore they are still UNIQUE. In this case, they are different because they followed different paths of evolution, and that is why there are monkeys today and humans today.
There's a lot of other stuff too. I'll just briefly note them here. I'm still open minded of course but I believe that God didn't just create the microscopic lifeforms in the water, and then just stop there and let them evolve. He created different animals, like is said in Genesis. However by our carbon dating and whatnot, it seems to be millions and billions or whatnot years between these kinds of events. I think this carbon dating is wrong because there was the Great Flood, and before that, there was no evidence that there was precipitation in the world. After the flood, the atmosphere probably changed significantly, and that is probably why the carbon dating is wrong (if it is).
Just wanna point out some possibilities. Maybe you can convince her to something like what I said. There's other opinions out there too.
Also I would like to advise you to be patient, if she does quote the Bible. Be sure to listen to her arguments as well, if you want to treat her well and all that. I know of many atheists who will attack the Bible without even understanding what a certain part is SUPPOSED to mean (disagreeing with something and not understanding something are two different things). It becomes really frustrating as a creationist to defend your views because of simple arrogance from atheists. It's like, you know, arguing about a book you've never actually even read, ya know?
If that doesn't work (or if it already failed) maybe you can mention the kind of idea that I did, that things do change over time and evolve, but that doesn't mean god didn't create life uniquely. They were created uniquely, and changed over time. Whatever form those beings may have taken on during that time might have been very similar to other beings that are seen today, but that doesn't mean they're the same.
correct me if im wrong but I think you are going through a phase of questioning certain things about your faith. I had a similar experience during high school/collage. You should try to keep an open (and logical!) mind and really try to understand the concept of genetics and how it could explain evolution as a theory. Many concepts are still new to you i think. That bit about the great flood messing with radioactive nuclei has no basis whatsoever and you came up with it in your own mind to try to bridge two conflicting ideas.
I was brought up a christian, but I never really accepted things in the bible as literal truths. Even as a young kid without much knowledge, many things just seemed implausible and were basically stories (ie parables) to get the point across. I think I came to understand fairly early that these were just metaphorical explanations for things that were yet to be understood scientifically. I still kept my faith though. It was a tough to reject what I grew up with, so I made compromises. At one point, I had enough education to see that evolution explained so many things that I just took for granted or just accepted. I tried my hardest to cope with two conflicting viewpoints and came up with the idea that God created the big bang and set the physical and natural laws and let it go from there. That was "creation."
Naturally, if you follow the logic through, you would come to the conclusion that God simply doesn't need to be in this picture to make this work. It is a slippery slope once you start to see the bible as one big metaphorical book of philosophy, religious teachings, ideas, and morals which has since been edited and changed numerous times to fit the political and social background. I started to get fed up with all these christians that are nothing more than hypocrits and use the church as a social playground. I began to look back at my personal relationship with God. All those times at revivals where I would cry and repent my sins and feel like i belonged. It was just a sociological phenominon. There was no holy spirit that entered me and brought me closer to God. I felt closer to God because of the setting in which it took place. I guess the final straw for me was the idea of jesus dying for your sins. This is one of the most ridiculous notion and should have been the first thing people question. This notion that is the cornerstone of the Christian faith, something that should jump out at any educated Christian, yet everyone just accepts because its been hammered into their minds for so long, simply was impossible.
There are a couple paths one can take once they start questioning. Follow through with logic, make compromises and keep the faith because its whats comfortable for you, or just outright reject science and accept the literal bible.
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On December 28 2011 19:41 ShadeR wrote:
Well it's called theory because you can come up with scenarios in which it can be falsified. It's very easy to answer the question "so what evidence will disprove evolution?" For eg: the infamous precambrian chicken.
Thats one of the foundations of science falsifiability.
However if i were to ask "what will disprove creationism?" The theist would not be able to give me a sinsible answer.
@Azzur Fact is things evolve. The theory of evolution attempts to describe the fact.
Thanks!
This is the key word when people try to make science out of religion. No model of the reality can be proven 100%, but a good model can be falsified.
What will happen when I let go of this apple?
Newton gravity model: it will accelerate 9.8m/s^2. Anything else, and my model is in trouble.
religious fanatic: it will fall with the speed that god chose. I know not the mind of god, so whatever happens, it is the will of god, and I will stick to my perception.
What will happen to the white beetles when the beech trees get darker by polution?
evolution: The darker beetles will survive better and after a while the beetles will be black rather than white. Anything else, and my model is in trouble.
religious fanatic: God will chose the fate of the beetles. Whatever happens, it is the will of god.
I want to carry an electric current to a different place, what material should I use?
quantum mechanics: Use a metal. the occupations of the energy levels allow the electrons to flow easily. Anything else and my model is in trouble.
religious fanatic: use the material of god, and god will conduct the current for you if god so chooses. Whatever happens, it is the will of god.
Well, you get the point. Religion is pretty useless in empirical science. A common expression here is "not even wrong". A good model can be proven wrong (falsifiable), and most good models get proven wrong eventually. Many great things have come out from models that turned out to be horribly wrong after measurements.
A model like "god will chose what happens at any point and it is impossible to read the mind of god" can never be proven wrong, which makes it a horrible model. Thus the expression that this kind of religious models in science should be labeled "not even wrong" or "not falsifiable".
I am perfectly fine with ppl believing in various religions. hf with that. But if you want to make a model of scientific empirical observations, and claim that your model is on the same footing as existing models, you better be sure that your model is falsifiable.
ON TOPIC
Best is probably to talk to her and say that you got a bit upset by her stance in this subject, but that it is not a big deal. Then discuss with her how to handle it. Ask her if she is up for a discussion about evolution, but tell her that you don't want this to get in between you or damage your relationship. Just be honest about what you feel about this entire situation, and it can't go very wrong. Good luck. (and feel free to use "falsifiable" and "not even wrong" if you do take the discussion.  )
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You should think about this when you are planning on getting kids.
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Not "believing" in evolution is the same as not "believing" gravity exists. The theories are both not fully proven but all the evidence points in a singular direction.
Just because evolution contradicts a lot of religious stories does not make it a religion.
Actually getting someone to question their beliefs and the stories they grew up with (be they islam/bible/w.e.) is not something you can force. If she is open to it you can start using a variety of questions and statements, starting with the very foundation of evolution & dating techniques, to disprove creationism/prove evolution.
However, due to the nature of the god postulation, you cannot disprove the existence of a god/multiple gods/a flying spaghetti monster. You can disprove that the universe -needs- a god though.
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On December 28 2011 16:13 YoureFired wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2011 16:10 blade55555 wrote:
Just leave it alone. You have different views and a really dumb thing to get in a fight about imo. Unless it for some reason bothers you that much that she doesn't believe the same things you do xD.
But you are just like her in the since that what you say is "fact been proven etc" so look at it from her point of view as to what you are doing. You are acting the same exact way. That's exactly what went through my head. I can prove evolution with a million examples but she can just pull out the Bible and say that I'm wrong. Then I get into religion arguments and those can prove fatal...
Yep, if you can accept her views then I think you should just leave it alone. Arguing about it won't accomplish anything other than provoke fights because she won't accept the evidence you show her as she has her own facts.
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Netherlands6142 Posts
My solution would be try not to convince her but enable her to make an educated judgement. She, I reckon?, knows the bible and christian teachings quite well, how about giving her a book on evolutionism to balance it out. I suggest The Greatest Show on Earth by Dawkins which, for me, was a very understandable, easy and pleasant read, even though I'm not a biologist/geologist. Just ask her to read it and if she wants to discuss it later then that's fine. A lot of people are just very ignorant about Darwin's theorems and helping that might make her see how evolution isn't just nonsense.
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On December 28 2011 22:42 Pholon wrote:
My solution would be try not to convince her but enable her to make an educated judgement. She, I reckon?, knows the bible and christian teachings quite well, how about giving her a book on evolutionism to balance it out. I suggest The Greatest Show on Earth by Dawkins which, for me, was a very understandable, easy and pleasant read, even though I'm not a biologist/geologist. Just ask her to read it and if she wants to discuss it later then that's fine. A lot of people are just very ignorant about Darwin's theorems and helping that might make her see how evolution isn't just nonsense.
At that point the OP has to be prepared to read the bible (or similar book) though, because she can reverse the argument. If you are prepared to do that, then you can make a fun exchange thing about it where you learn more about each others mindsets. Very romantic.
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I feel for you man. Personally would never catch me with a creationist woman, I'd much rather chop my balls off. If I was in that situation, I would try to persuade her.
On December 28 2011 22:19 Schwopzi wrote:
Not "believing" in evolution is the same as not "believing" gravity exists. The theories are both not fully proven but all the evidence points in a singular direction.
Just because evolution contradicts a lot of religious stories does not make it a religion.
Actually getting someone to question their beliefs and the stories they grew up with (be they islam/bible/w.e.) is not something you can force. If she is open to it you can start using a variety of questions and statements, starting with the very foundation of evolution & dating techniques, to disprove creationism/prove evolution.
However, due to the nature of the god postulation, you cannot disprove the existence of a god/multiple gods/a flying spaghetti monster. You can disprove that the universe -needs- a god though.
Actually it does. It does indeed. The Holy Bible is supposed to be the word of God, the ONLY BOOK EVER CREATED (for some religions lol) in which is Holy, and can you please tell me how "holy" the bible is if a bunch of shit is actually WRONG?
haha
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depends on what you're dating her for. If its just for short term companionship and sex, don't do anything to sabotage a decent relationship. If you're looking to marry her, then thats a different problem, because now you've got to work on time-bomb diffusal, and finding out if she's really crazy or not right now can save you a lot of time later.
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Netherlands6142 Posts
On December 28 2011 22:46 Cascade wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2011 22:42 Pholon wrote:
My solution would be try not to convince her but enable her to make an educated judgement. She, I reckon?, knows the bible and christian teachings quite well, how about giving her a book on evolutionism to balance it out. I suggest The Greatest Show on Earth by Dawkins which, for me, was a very understandable, easy and pleasant read, even though I'm not a biologist/geologist. Just ask her to read it and if she wants to discuss it later then that's fine. A lot of people are just very ignorant about Darwin's theorems and helping that might make her see how evolution isn't just nonsense. At that point the OP has to be prepared to read the bible (or similar book) though, because she can reverse the argument. If you are prepared to do that, then you can make a fun exchange thing about it where you learn more about each others mindsets. Very romantic.
Well yeah. Or some book that outlines her "interpretation" of it.
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EPT
