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Flexx
United States87 Posts
You just need to decide if that's a problem for you. Personally, I would NEVER date a girl who doesn't believe in evolution/is religious. I prefer to live my life based on as much fact/science as humanly possible.. and I don't hold people who feel otherwise in high regard. I wouldn't be able to have a real relationship with a girl I think is an idiot.. basically. Relationship being the key word. | ||
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TiTanIum_
Brazil1335 Posts
On December 28 2011 17:03 Fishgle wrote: yo OP, start by agreeing with her that evolution is false, this will ward off cheese and lend you opponent unable to finish the game quickly, before you can carry out your long term game plan. transition into agreeing that evolution is just a theory. From there, expand into the safe "Nothing really has a thorough explanation" midgame composition, defending from harass with a few "this is the evidence i have," while being wary of word bending. Whether you choose to have a Pasta, InvisiBrony, or Russel Teapot based army is your choice. But you must use one of those. The Agnostic vs Creationist matchup relies heavily upon those, but don't overmake them and transition out quickly or your whole game will be hardcountered and you'll throw away a won game. Lategame is very dependent upon your opponents composition. Sometimes, as with checkers, tic ta toe, and my mother, the only possible way to win is by forcing a tie. :: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_in_biology_makes_sense_except_in_the_light_of_evolution gl hf gg The OP was okay due to the kgh. Then it got boring until this. | ||
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Myrkskog
Canada481 Posts
Until then, who cares if she believes in God or Scientology or whatever. | ||
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darkscream
Canada2310 Posts
I mean, you can let this one slide, that's the smart thing to do, and just enjoy your time with her, and make sure she just understands you have different views and you guys don't need to argue about it. But if she's got these religious memes burned into her psyche forever, it will come up again and again throughout your life regarding all sorts of different things, so be ready. Don't get her pregnant. | ||
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metbull
United States404 Posts
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TG Manny
United States325 Posts
Evolution simply states that organisms choose what are the best traits to survive in their particular conditions. That does not work backward into "everything was the same type of organism". Creation simply states that everything was created by God, with no specific statement that he created X, Y, or Z. In a religiously sound scientific theory (lolz) on evolution, God created the arch beings and evolution created the rest. (So, wrong but simple explanation, god creates monkeys and several different kinds like guerillas, chimpanzees, and neaderthals evolve from the archtype.) On a different track, when you have to tell your girlfriend that not everything in the bible is 100% real and true, quote Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. Two accounts of creation, one of the heavens, earth, water, etc. over six days +1 for rest and one of the Garden of Eden. These two are mutually exclusive and because mainstream bible accepts them the bible is not 100% fact. Old testament were prehistory stories handed down and skewed by various tellers of the tale, Jesus actions teach different messages than on first glance, etc. etc. (Note: This isn't an argument against religion, it is an argument against why the bible should not be taken literally or out of context.) Should you want to make peace with her Creationism you may want to explain how it is compatible with science. That is one of the most misunderstood things about religion in general, unfortunately. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On December 28 2011 23:43 adwodon wrote: While much of that is true, the issue is not simply believing in God. I have very close friends who believe in God and we've discussed it many times, as well as religion (which is not to be confused with faith.) We're quite similar, with the primary difference being the issue of faith. I don't have it, and they do. It's a personal connection and feeling that's impossible to expose to other people, and is equally impossible to disprove.I disagree, as a physicist I am a 'logical' person and I know lots of logical people. One of the smartest can't cook, he can make bacon sandwiches and that's about it. Now to me, that makes no sense, we eat every day, we enjoy it, cooking is a social thing, its relaxing and you feel accomplished, I think not learning to cook is obstinate and foolish (I don't really but for the sake of argument...). Does that undermine everything else my friend does? Is he suddenly now not worthy of respect? Of course the answer is no, the reason being, there is only so much we can do or care about. I imagine for this girl, she grew up in a religious community, was taught what she thinks, doesn't care much about it and isn't a scientific person (they do exist, in fact most people really don't care about science) so didn't bother questioning it because she had other things on her mind and had other priorities. I'm sure if she moved into an environment where it was suddenly imperative that she explore these things more she would change her mind, but someones opinion on science doesn't matter, as I said, shes no activist, that would be very different and I would have trouble respecting someone who was passionate about an ill informed opinion. I learned a long time ago that we all have our own standards, and one of the things that pains me most about peoples problems with each other is they almost always stem from conflicting standards. I would say to you, that you need to learn to respect people with different standards, as right now you aren't as open minded as you might believe, as presumably an atheist you surely don't believe in any kind of fundamental reason for your being here, so why does it matter that this girl thinks what she does on this one subject? I think its too easy to pick faults in people, remember you have just as many, I'm sure I could find many in you, and you many in me, but I think its important to focus more on the positives in people, and that is where I learn to respect people, from what they are passionate about, from what they focus on, not what I am passionate about or what I focus on, because otherwise, I would barely respect anyone and that would be too lonely an existence for me to what to contemplate. This issue with the girlfriend is not an issue of pure faith. You don't have faith in Creationism, the same way you can have faith that God exists, or even the way you have faith that God created the universe. You choose to believe Young Earth Creationism by rejecting scientific evidence. It's not only unreasonable but it's also on the verge of paranoia, because of the fear that mankind could not possibly be directly related to other lesser animals. It would be like a Silver level player saying that mass thor is broken and unfair. I would have no respect for their SC2 knowledge nor should anyone, and if they were absolutely, arrogantly convinced that mass thor is broken, without acknowledging contrary evidence, then I would probably consider them an overall idiot as well. Now this girl is indeed a product of a very isolated environment, but it sounds like she's moved beyond that if she's at least uncomfortable with her parents' religiosity. In some ways, I think it's worse that she has moved on without challenging or re-examining those core beliefs. To me, being born again is actually more "noble" than continuing to parrot others, even if I disagree with their stance. (This part is my largest assumption about the girl and quite frankly, I'm likely completely wrong in estimating how introspective she is.) Faith, and even religion, should be tolerated. I don't think young earth creationism is tolerable, though. Beyond all that, I don't think trying to teach a significant other is a particularly successful tactic. It's just something that they have to find out on their own. Most people are somewhat resistant to hearing "advice" from their partner, and it can be taken as a sign of disguised disrespect. At least in this case, I'm open about the disrespect.  | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On December 29 2011 02:57 TG Manny wrote: If they wanted to believe God actively created and changes everything, they could still accept the theory of evolution. Young Earth Creationism is a completely different beast all together and it's more about human self worth, than what God has or hasn't done. In the contemporary world, it's an extreme answer to the general insecurities humankind has always had, and further changes in the world might even fuel its reactionary nature.Something interesting to note is that Evolution doesn't go against Creationism. Evolution simply states that organisms choose what are the best traits to survive in their particular conditions. That does not work backward into "everything was the same type of organism". Creation simply states that everything was created by God, with no specific statement that he created X, Y, or Z. In a religiously sound scientific theory (lolz) on evolution, God created the arch beings and evolution created the rest. (So, wrong but simple explanation, god creates monkeys and several different kinds like guerillas, chimpanzees, and neaderthals evolve from the archtype.) On a different track, when you have to tell your girlfriend that not everything in the bible is 100% real and true, quote Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. Two accounts of creation, one of the heavens, earth, water, etc. over six days +1 for rest and one of the Garden of Eden. These two are mutually exclusive and because mainstream bible accepts them the bible is not 100% fact. Old testament were prehistory stories handed down and skewed by various tellers of the tale, Jesus actions teach different messages than on first glance, etc. etc. (Note: This isn't an argument against religion, it is an argument against why the bible should not be taken literally or out of context.) Should you want to make peace with her Creationism you may want to explain how it is compatible with science. That is one of the most misunderstood things about religion in general, unfortunately. | ||
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TG Manny
United States325 Posts
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blankspace
United States292 Posts
Macroevolution takes place at a higher level (between species) and over a much longer time scale, so you can't observe it in the same way. HOWEVER, the fundamental principles of both theories are the same. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macroevolution So you see, it's not an unreasonable step to take an observable fact (microevolution) and use the same principles to explain the bigger picture. Physics is a good example. Based on phenomenon that can be observed on a human time scale, physicists came up with theories that have great predictive power (just like microevolution). Then, ideas like Einstein's general relativity, verified by observations in his time, were applied to cosmology and coming up with ideas such as the big bang. And we definitely cannot observe a big bang or the expansion of the universe in real time, although these ideas are now accepted (although constantly refined by new observations). Theoretically evolution could be verified or rejected by having some immortal observer watch the whole process. Obviously there was no such observer so instead, scientists try to build a picture of the past by examining various snapshots (fossils). And there's a lot of fossil evidence. | ||
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farvacola
United States18846 Posts
On December 29 2011 03:06 Jibba wrote: If they wanted to believe God actively created and changes everything, they could still accept the theory of evolution. Young Earth Creationism is a completely different beast all together and it's more about human self worth, than what God has or hasn't done. In the contemporary world, it's an extreme answer to the general insecurities humankind has always had, and further changes in the world might even fuel its reactionary nature. This ought to be required reading for anyone who feels the need to jump from a critique of creationism to a critique of faith in general. In reality, the two are incredibly different and are in many cases at odds with each other. Take, for instance, the idea of irreducible complexity. To see that such a concept is nonsense does not require that one forego their own belief in God. In fact, to put to use the tools of logic and reasoning can be considered an act of faith, but I digress. | ||
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zul
Germany5427 Posts
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Silidons
United States2813 Posts
On December 28 2011 23:28 Teoita wrote: You are taking it too far. Believing in religion isn't necessarily bad or stupid (this coming from an atheist), it's just some people feel it's necessary for them. The education one receives as a child also has a huge impact. Creationism on the other hand is just taking things too far. Science and religion have NOTHING to do with each other, and they never should. On topic, i think it would bother me a lot. I could definitely not have a very serious story with her, but that's personal. If it's not too serious for both of you and it doesn't bother you that much, i say go ahead with it, but if either one of you looks for a more long-term relationship it could be troublesome. Believing in religion IS a hindrance of the human race. They won't fund many scientific things because "it goes against our religion" or because "it doesn't seem like it will help us right now" and they would rather keep on making more tax-free churches where all the pastors are multimillionaires. Here is a video that might change your mind about who the real "terrorists" are | ||
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Ripps
Canada97 Posts
Explain evolution to her calmly and without being an asshole. It's very hard to believe in Young Earth Creation if (1) you've been showed why its stupid and (2) you're not completely stupid yourself. If she is completely stupid, proceed getting head but know that it probably won't work in the long run. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
Believing in God can be rationally justifiable. I'm ok with her faith. Cognitive dissonance? Believing in God is absolutely not rational, that's why it's called faith. If you can't prove something, invent a word that somehow justifies an unjustified belief. Not saying it's bad (although I do think so), but more to the topic, I'd never date a young earth creationist at all at this point. That's just filthy. However, my gf was a creationist when I met her though (we were around 14). She had lived in a small town in TX all her life - she was never really exposed to the actual theory of evolution, she had only seen some creationist spoofs which make out evolution to be this ridiculous thing. Her parents, especially her mother, are deeply, deeply religious too. However, she's a smart girl - and I consider that any smart person would completely let go of creationism if they were properly exposed to the mountains of evidence for evolution. Now, she realizes that evolution is basically how shit works and completely let go of creationism. She's 21, and although she hasn't entirely let go of all the notions around religion, but she's not really into the insane BS now. (She still likes the idea of an afterlife, may it be a conscious existence or not. However, it's not really a belief of hers). We can call her an agnostic maybe? I don't know. Either way, much better. | ||
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JohnBall
Brazil1272 Posts
On December 29 2011 02:49 metbull wrote: Sure, link her to sites that support evolution, and link her to sites that refute evolution. There are a lot of scientists that are very pro evolution and a lot of scientists that don't accept it. If you want to persuade someone properly you have to know the arguments of the other side to properly "shoot them down." Otherwise it ends up coming out like "I'm right and your wrong, just because!" Sorry but this part is wrong. No true scientist will be against evolution. If you ever see someone calling themselves a scientist and denying evolution, either this person is a genious spousing a brilliant and thorough revolution in biology (not likely) or he's not a real scientist at all (very likely). There is some academic debate about how precisely evolution works, but no one nowadays questions that evolution is a scientificly verified fact. A fact that was observed, tested and experimented many, many times since Darwin. Let me just place evolutionism in the context of other scientific discoveries pretty quickly: Evolutionism not only is the cornerstone that founds all of biology (every biological theory is dependent on evolution directly or inderectly) it was also an extremely important discovery for fields like psichology, anthropology, medicine and even (I shit you not) computer sciences. It's not an stretch to say that Darwin's discovery is the most important scientific discovery in the last 200 years (yes, even more important than both Einstein's relativities or Heisenberg's quantum mechanics). | ||
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Gann1
United States1575 Posts
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On December 29 2011 06:07 JohnBall wrote: Sorry but this part is wrong. No true scientist will be against evolution. If you ever see someone calling themselves a scientist and denying evolution, either this person is a genious spousing a brilliant and thorough revolution in biology (not likely) or he's not a real scientist at all (very likely). There is some academic debate about how precisely evolution works, but no one nowadays questions that evolution is a scientificly verified fact. A fact that was observed, tested and experimented many, many times since Darwin. A few scientists somehow find ways to deny evolution because of how strong they were indoctrinated into their faith. Those people, however, certainly aren't biologists. Perhaps astrophysicists and whatnot - but I would assume very few of them. And not the most reputable scientists at that. Anyway, you will sometimes hear about legitimate scientists who make claims regarding parts of evolution which may not be accurate. What I'm saying is, no scientists who know what they're talking about will actually say "evolution as a whole is wrong". They might say, however, that part of the theory is flawed - but it means that our understanding of the entire thing is imperfect and incomplete, not entirely wrong. | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On December 29 2011 06:17 Lightwip wrote: 4x as many historians believe the Holocaust never happened as biologists that believe evolution never happened. What's that, 12 to 3 and none of them have accredited phds? =P | ||
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